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Hi!
Rear crosses are HARD indeed, I can relate!
>>Glad I was rewarding her every time because I kept thinking I was doing it right but then watched the video and nope.>>
You were excellent! And that also makes your life harder LOL! She is pretty literal at this age so when you reward someplace, she is likely going to go there again/do the same behavior on the next rep. Good girl!
That happened on the first video: the first RC at :08 was really good! You were too early on the next one at :14 (your feet were pointing to the backside line the whole time and pushed her off) so on the next reps, she decided that was the spot before even getting input from you (she exited the tunnel, heading to the backside).
Then you did exactly what I would have suggested – got her back on the straight line with a GO rep, then did a good RC rep. Super!!!
So if you end up pushing her off the line by accident, or when you do deliberately cue the backside wrap – yes, reward her like you did, then do a straight line GO on the next rep to help her NOT immediately go back to where she was last reinforced.On the 2nd video, the RCs were much harder for her and I think 2 things were happening:
– the jump was too close to the tunnel, so she had to make a takeoff decision at the tunnel exit. So even when you were getting right on her tail with the RC info (like you did at 1:00, 1:12, and the rest of the reps), it was too late because the distance was a short one-stride for her and she is very fast 🙂
Easy fix: give her and you 20 feet or more between the tunnel exit and the jump so you can show the info. And put a line on the ground from the center of the side of the tunnel next to you to the center of the bar, so you have a visual path to run to get the RCs.– for whatever reason, she was having trouble switching from her left lead to her right lead to make the RC here. Not sure why it was so hard for her today, but that is normal for adolescent dogs LOL!
Since she has a great stay, you can play this game with her:
I used this game to teach my Hot Sauce how to turn to her weaker side (she is turning to her left at the beginning her which is hear weaker side). This was her first session. It isolates and slows the RC diagonal cue to the point where the pup can have a lightbulb moment and start to predict that the pressure means to turn the new direction. I used a clicker here to really isolate it but you can use verbal markers.
Here is the step by step how-to of this game – it is easy to do indoors and I think it will help you both get the cues rolling!
The most difficult part of this type of rear cross is teaching the pup to turn the correct direction (away from where he last saw the handler) rather than spin the wrong way (back towards where the handler was coming from). Here are the steps to teaching the turn:
● Start with a rousing game of tug!
● Ask the pup for a sit-stay at your left side. Be sure to reinforce throughout this game for holding the sit stay – the puppy is allowed to move her head, but is not allowed to move her feet or turn her body until you release her. Break it down as much as needed to help build a solid stay! Here are 2 ways to reinforce the stay for this game after stepping back:
○ You can return to the pup to hand deliver the reward
○ You can click and release the dog to a thrown reward
● Take one or two steps back, so you are parallel to or just past the pup’s tail. Be sure to reward the pup for holding the sit, either by returning to her or click/releasing her to a thrown reward.
● Cut behind the puppy so she is now on your right side, and step up to her shoulder. When she turns her head to face the side you are now on, reward her by either giving her a treat in position or releasing and throwing a treat or playing tug.
Because the pup will anticipate the rear cross, it is important that sometimes you step back but not behind her – in these cases, if she continues to look at you without turning her head the new direction, you can either step forward and give her a treat, or release her to come to you for the treat or to play tug.
Be sure to repeat this on both sides of the puppy!Great job here! Let the know what you think!
TracyPoor Sassy! It makes me mad and sad to hear she got chased like that 🙁 We will TOTALLY help her out! The pattern games are your first step, these will be most important for now. And also start the volume dial game! All of those small games will come together to help her feel happy again 🙂
Tracy
Hello and welcome!!! It sounds like she is doing really well!
I am excited for the match! Is it an informal match? Ideally you would go in, using low jump heights, and run short little sequences with a toy 🙂 The environment is different so you’ll want everything else to be easier. Let me know what you think!
TracyHello and welcome!
>.didn’t realize we could post when we’re auditing! thats exciting!
Yes, auditors can post, ask questions, and come to the zoom chats!
Sounds like you are seeing some pretty typical questions from an adolescent pup 🙂 And goof for you, for recognizing that some stuff is too hard for her right now!
>>Im excited to just learn from others as I feel like im the one that failed her and no-one else has had this problem with their agility dog…>>
I know that we all feel like we have failed the dog, but I will be the voice in your ear to constantly remind you:
– you have NOT failed her, you are doing a wonderful job!!!!
– we have ALL had some sort of issue like you describe, so you are definitely not alone (some of us have had multiple issues hahaha!!)Have fun!
TracyHi!
>.I tie her to a chair while I’m walking and she stays to herself. We also deal with overarrousal when other dogs are running (she is a terrier after all lol) Barking and Lunging…nonagressive just excitement.>>
Terriers rule!!! I definitely suggest a crate or something where she can chill out without watching – what is happening if she is barking while waiting or watching too much is that she is jacking up her arousal hormones, which makes it really hard for her adolescent-self to modulate into a great state of focus. So a chill out spot can help! And we will of course help when she is on leash and watching other dogs or waiting her turn.
>>She is a foodie through and through, toys are meh at class and trials. I do a lot of snuffle mat with her though to give her something to focus on.>>
I am a foodie too, I can totally relate LOL!! Snuffle mats are great, and some dogs really love a bully stick to chew on. Have you used a lotus ball or treat hugger with her? They are for foodies but are toy-like so can help bridge the gap in the ring.
T
Hi!
>.I’m not sure what tonight’s format is. Maybe we can talk about the RTW?
I have added it to my list to discuss 🙂
>> Basically it’s can you take food, can you respond appropriately to your food markers. She should come back and offer eye contact. Then, can you do simple behavior. If so, more complex behavior. She can often do this on the side lines. But, then we have to wait or go through the gate to the jump. That’s when I lose her. >>
This is a classic question and totally on the agenda for the next 8 weeks 🙂 The struggles I have seen with this procedure is that it tends to give the impression that yes, the dog is ready to work… in that location outside the ring with cookies really visible in some way 🙂 And it doesn’t necessarily translate to the change in arousal state that happens when the dog enters the ring because it only covers one attentional state in one context.
No worries, my evil plan incorporates this in ways we can specifically bring her into the ring with the attentional state we want 🙂
>>Also, when I use the tossed food marker cue I can gauge how long it takes her to come back and offer eye contact. It’s almost always immediate with a get food from my hand marker. But, if she needs to get the food off the floor then she’ll often sniff or more likely start looking around at the environment.>>
When she is sniffing or looking around, she is definitely needing to assess the environment. I don’t use words like pass or fail for any of this, because the dog will give us tremendous feedback and communication – definitely useful!!!
For the cookie toss marker – that is rooted in a pattern game which needs to be super super fluent in a variety of contexts. I have it posted here in Week 1 so that is a good starting point to play with 🙂
>> She’s also sometimes grabbing grass as we walk towards the first jump.
That is a coping mechanism for the change internal state. If she can grab grass then produce low latency responses to cues and sustained attentional state? Cool, she can grab grass because it helps her 🙂 But since it seems she has questions, and the grass grab coping mechanism is not working, we will give her other tools to modulate her internal arousal shifts.
Tracy
Hi!
This was totally NOT a cluster!! And, the good news is that he is going to have AMAZING backsides! LOL!!I think you recognized the question and made all of the adjustments that I would have suggested: angle the jump, then throw the toy rather than have it placed. Both of those really helped jumpstart the behavior. You got a whole bunch of terrific reps in a row and we able to angle the jump more and put the toy back down, including some where he really had to work to get the serp line. Super!!!!
You hit the wall of difficulty for this session at 1:23, with the jump relatively flat, toy on ground, and you running… it was tooooo hard for now and he couldn’t pull off the lead change mechanics.
The same goes for the other side – too flat and too much motion is too hard 🙂
I think his sweet spot for now in terms of jump angle and motion is what you did at 1:36, where he was successful.
And because there are so many variables to serping, when you dial one variable up to make it harder (like adding more of your motion), you can dial down another variable (like having the toy on the ground) to make it easier. For him, that toy on the ground is more of a distraction than it is a help 🙂 So it is perfectly fine to NOT have it on the ground.
So overall – you are on the right track, he is doing really well, and you get an extra big click/treat for sorting out how to help in this session to get all of those successful reps! Yay!
Great job!
TracyHi!
She did have fun with this and it went really well!>> I walked this several times before starting and carefully set it up ahead of time knowing we were only making one turn, and I still said the wrong verbal every rep. I just got it in my head wrong. I’m just so bummed and horrified, but I am not sure I can overcome this.>>
When you walked it, did you say the verbal out loud (and really loud :)) while walking it? That migh tbe something to try – saying it loudly. And video the walk through, then checking the video to make sure you’re yelling the correct words. I have totally caught myself yelling the wrong words LOL!
>>. I just got it in my head wrong. I’m just so bummed and horrified, but I am not sure I can overcome this>>
Definitely NOTHING to be horrified about because you and Bazinga had a great session 🙂 We will figure out a system of verbals that makes sense to you and is easy to use.
>>I really worked on looking at her as she came out of the tunnel. When I was able to do that, I think she was able to get the turns. If I am not doing that, I think she is looking for the toy to tell which direction to go.>>
The connection really helped! The Go reps are looking great – you can throw the toy sooner, like you did on the 2nd rep.
For the RCs, you can actually throw later so you can cue the RC and throw after you change sides.
I think on the RCs, you had some reps where you were spot on in terms of getting the pressure on the line like at 1:12 and 1:18 (1:18 was the BEST pressure on the line!) But on those reps, you pushed into her line too soon and that pushed her off the jump. So keep the pressure on the line like you did but keep running to the center of the bar until she is past you and also getting ready to take off… then you can cut in behind her.
After pushing her off the line a bit, you did a few steps of running straight then starting the RC so she did take the jump but she was not quite looking the correct direction until after she was jumping (1:25 and 1:30).
So I think moving towards the center of the bar for longer will be perfect! Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
Great job here!
TracyHi!
She did great here! You two are on a role!I am not surprised that she got it so nicely – you have put a lot of value and understanding into the parallel line games line wind in your hair, so adding the tunnel to it was easy peasy 🙂 Not everything will be this easy, but we will take it when we get it LOL!
You can add a little more distance between the jump and tunnel here if you wanted more challenge! But this game can also be on the back burner for now as we add more games.Great job on these!
TracyHi!
This is also going really well! The stays look good and she is shifting back and forth easily. The next step would be to move the wings closer together, so you both move more quickly 🙂 We add bars to this game soon!>>Question. Do I have the toy in the correct hand? It felt awkward like I should be turning with her and rewarding with the hand closest to her.>>
Yes, it is a bit of an awkward game at this point because there are big hand and foot movements. Which hand you reward her from doesn’t really matter because we will be fading the movements out soon – ideally you would reward her when she is next to the wing (having just finished a lead change) and not wrapping her around it.
>>While setting up she noticed the kids and was barking at them a bit. I just ignored it>>
If possible, during setup, can she wait in a crate or in the house? That way she doesn’t rehearse barking at kids, if possible 🙂 That rehearsal might come back to get in the way at some point. Those kids were loud for sure but she can chew a bone or something rather than rehearse barking at them.
Great job!
TracyHi!
This went well – she held her stay really nicely. You seem a bit worried that she won’t LOL but she did really well and her jumping form looked good too! We build on this game on Wednesday.One suggestion with the moving target: Keep moving the toy til she gets to it, don’t stop to let her catch up when she takes the 3rd jump. You were decelerating a little as she was taking jump 3, so the toy was stationary when she arrives on the first couple of reps. It was moving more on the last rep, which was great!
>>I’ve found sometimes if I look at her with eye contact she comes to me for a treat instead of getting the toy. Maybe I didn’t say Get It and she was very hungry..>
Maybe if you are looking at her too much or the toy is not moving, she doesn’t think she has ‘permission’ to take it? She might be confused, especially if you didn’t say get it 🙂
Nice work here!
TracyHello and welcome! She sounds like a lot of fun (even when she is driving you crazy LOL!!!)
>> Our downfall is judge and ring crew visiting. She can’t hold a start line because as soon as she locks onto someone, she is off to visit.
Can she hold her stay and ignore people in class? That will give us a place to begin planning 🙂
>>Do you suggest stopping trialing all together until we get further into the coursework?>>
Yes, I suggest stop trialing in ‘real’ runs for now, so we can get some more tools in the toolbox. If she likes toys and can stay engaged with a toy, then FEO/NFC runs are great! If not, skip trialing for a bit and we will jump into the coursework.
Have fun!
Tracy
