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Hi!
>>Yesterday Venture said he just couldn’t work so we took a break. We had already had a couple outings to the pet store and Tractor Supply. He got lots of pets and love from all the shoppers and I think that was the limit for his adolescent brain. Black Friday with a puppy!>>
Depletion is real! Black Friday shopping takes a lot of mental energy for humans and puppies 🙂
>>I’m unsure about the “You can throw the toy on the exit of the blind here: when he gets to the new side, you can throw the toy ahead and let him drive to it to get the cookie out of it without you”. The timing would be? Throw forward as soon as he’s close to the toy or should he be at the toy before the throw?>>
I think as soon as you see him locking onto the correct (new) side, you can throw the reward forward so he accelerates past you to get it. So he will still be a few feet behind you when you throw it.
>>Backing up to the Cato board – it’s 4″ high when on a solid surface inside. In the grass it sinks and is quite a bit lower. Ven is about 14″ tall so far. I expect he’ll end up about 15″ tall. Is 4″ too tall or should I try it out and see?>>
I think in the grass it would be OK. But probably too high on a solid surface to start with. A one or two inch height will be easier for him 🙂
Keep me posted!
TracyHoly Wow, she was really zippy around the barrel here: “I GOT THIS, MOM!!” Perfect! Tight and fast in both directions, with no questions. Super!
Because she was so good, the next step is to work up to you standing while she does this. You can split it by doing a few reps in a chair, then moving to standing up (and still dropping the treats in the bowl). If she is happy with you standing: definitely move to the turn and burn game posted this week (that is where wrapping really gets fun). If she has questions, you can stay with the bowl game for another session (but somehow I don’t think she will have questions).
Great job here! Let me know how she does with you standing!
Tracy
Hi!
Mingo is getting big now! Fun!
Super nice job with the blinds here!! Lots of good running from you both and double happy dance for getting that last canine out LOL!With her speed, you can start your blind as soon as she starts moving towards you because she will be catching up fast LOL!! Whippets and BWs have different timing than non-whippety dogs 🙂
You were doing the blind when she was a little past being halfway to you, which is probably why they felt late. So if you start them when she begins moving towards you, the blinds should feel more comfy. You started earlier on the last rep, and that seemed to be the smoothest one.
It was hard to tell when she would start running towards you, so you can use a soft treat she can slurp up then call her name so she turns to you more immediately.
Great job with your mechanics and connection on the exit of the blinds – she had no questions about where to be! YAY!!
Great job here 🙂
TracyHi!
>>I can sort of feel him locking onto me and then remembering his toy sometimes – I’ll try next time giving him more time
Plus he is a complete newbie to the game – when he sees it once or twice, he will better understand where to look and then it will be easy!
Nice session here!! Your mechanics were really strong: fast transitions in and out of the toy play, you were holding the item so it would not move, and he offered immediately: and your treats were ready so there was really no delay with the cookie reward.
>> I picked this object because he has never used it before but in review of the video – I think this had too much movement-instability>>
Yes, it had some extra movement but you helped by holding it and he was very GAME ON about offering behavior. I think he was trying to offer pivoting on it? Good boy! You can start to make a goat trick trail in that hallway: all sorts of various items for him to walk across and on as you both move back and forth along the hallway.
>.Also we needed more space – he bumped his head tugging>>
Poor little guy LOL!!!! I am not sure he noticed, though LOL!!
>>since i didn’t have my clicker I should have made my verbal markers sound more like a marker with less chatter>>
You were generally quiet during the offering, mostly just saying “yes” then the marker with a “good boy” mixed in here and there. The majority of the chatter was during the play, which is fine with me 🙂 I like the various noises and chatter because it is very engaging! It was a really great session!
Side note: where did you get the rug in your hallway? I need rugs like that which won’t move under the pups 🙂
Great job here!
TracyHi!
I am super glad she likes the leash! But yes, she needed a bit more work on ignoring it. Since she finds it so fun, you can use it like the reinforcement in the remote reinforcement game: begin by just taking a step or two away from it then marking that success with the marker to go back to it 🙂 Then you will be better able to use it in sequences.
When you did the sequences without it, she looked great! The Go and the RC both looked really strong!!
On the second video, she did a good job ignoring the bowl on the ground (I think that was what she was supposed to ignore?) This is a good setup for teaching her to ignore the leash: take the leash off, move away from it, mark and then go back to it to play. Then you can add in wrapping the cone, etc – all building up to her being able to ignore that awesome leash while running courses 🙂
Nice work here!
TracyHi!
Good job rehearsing coming to the line on leash and tuggig on it at the end! Yay!
His go lines are looking really good, both at the beginning and after the rear crosses. The bowl is a good target (even if the cookie was not in it at first LOL!)
You got a really nice turn on the tunnel exit to get him on the line,
As you get furher behind, keep saying go go go so you don’t get too quiet (which migh cause him to ask questions).The rear cross is really tricky here – you can basically set the line from the tunnel exit and start facing the rear cross line at basically the same time. At 1:55 and 3:50. you were facing srtaight for a few steps then tried to set the RC, which made the RC late.
At 2:48, you seemed to get more directly onto the RC line and he was able to make the turn before he even took off. Wow! So definitely plan for the earlier rear cross pressure so he can set up the lovely turns.
Great job here! Hope you have a nice Thanksgiving!
Tracy
Perfect that you are using markers! And also relatable that it is hard to spit them out AND do the handling AND try to do it all at whippet speed 🙂 I really love her drive, her brain, and her movement – such a cool pup! And yes, it will all come together with age and practice.
And you can also let her burn off some of that energy by run run running before training sessions – if that gets success, then it is exactly the rehearsal that is needed 🙂
Have fun!
TracyGood morning!
>>RC are not my forte>
Well, I would say they are becoming your forte!!! This session was great. Your very first rep was a little late (you were being careful, perhaps) but then on the 2nd rep – NAILED IT! And you were clearly getting more and more comfortable with driving into the pressure and cutting behind her pretty early but still maintaining the line so she committed AND turned.
The real indicator that you were nailing it was the first rep on the other side: after all of the rewards for turning left, you had to cue a right turn at :24 and if you did it late, she would turn left. You nailed it and she turned to her right. SUPER!! And after that, you were getting even earlier and earlier, so both of you were even more confident with it. I am doing a happy dance here! Super!!!
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
Really nice job with the backing up!!I think having the mat slightly further from you worked like a charm, giving her room to back onto it. Nice! Keep revisiting this every couple of days and you can use the wobble board for it too – just prop the wobble board with a bunch of towels under it, so it barely moves at first.
Speaking of the wobble board – she was happy to slam them around while tugging! Since they are relatively small, she is unlikely to stand on them while tugging. But you can use food to encourage her to get her front feet on one of the boards and back feet on the other one 🙂
She wants to offer a bow/front end stretch so pretty please reward that in a non-backing up session 🙂 that is a great behavior to shape! You can use a different pat or something to get her to do it – something smaller will help because she can “anchor” her back feet on it and stretch out her front (and reward nice and low, close to the ground).
The mini course looked great! On the first rep you pivoted too quickly, so she read it as a blind cross. On the other reps, you slowed the pivot just enough that she could stay on the correct side while turning. Lovely! And doing it from a restrained recall is also great, because it adds in more speed AND offers a layer of impulse control: ignore the people and run with the momma! Is that Ginger being your holder? Hi Ginger!
Yes, this is a good one for the trial environment and so if the prop game. Have a blast! Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>The interesting thing with her is that I’m not seeing signs of overarousal/brain frying while she is working for food. If it is there, it comes out when we try to switch back to the toy.>>
You are unlikely to see it with food (unless the dog is hyper-obsessed with food, which she is not :)) for two reasons:
– food in training is generally associated with lower arousal behavior so less likely to tip the dog into overarousal
– food in training has a different influence on the dog’s physiological state so also less likely to tip the dog into overarousal.Toy play is generally associated with higher arousal behaviors and more likely to stimulate the internal physiological state into higher arousal that food. And you can see it happening, almost like flipping a switch.
There might also be a frustration component of leaving the food for the toy in that transition moment, so you can slow that moment down and add distance in time & space from the food training: take a little longer to present the toy, and move to a different place in the room or house, then start throwing it around.
>>Lift likes to smack the gate with her front paws so that it crashes to the ground (at which point Demi bolts in the other direction and Kaladin just stares at her in confusion). Then she trots right over the flat gate to escape. So I’m not anticipating issues with adding sound, but will do it slowly incase she’s having an adolescent moment.>>
That is hilarious! I feel like she needs a bell to ring, to call for her household staff LOL!!!
>>I told her if she wants to stop growing at 12.5 or 12.6in and focus on fur instead that would be just fine with me,>>
I am sending 12.6” vibes!!!!!!
The collection sandwich video looked good! It was a really fun way to go from cookie hand to grab the toy. Your mechanics looked really good with the blind,decel, pivot. Fun!
The running and chasing you and the toy seems to provide a really nice outlet for her arousal, keeping her in a pretty optimal state! I like it! So you can definitely be using the throwing of the toy in your transitions in other training, to help her go from food to toys without pummeling you 🙂And keeping the session short was great – fast, fun, be done! Yay!
On the backing up video is also looking good. It took a couple of moments to sort out the mechanics of how far to draw her off the mat but you kept rewarding so she was happy to keep trying it. You nailed it at about 1:49 when you drew her front feet off but left her back feet on the mat – that allowed her to step back and it jump started the behavior for the rest of the session. LOVELY! She was not quite ready for all 4 feet off, but 2 feet then 3 feet off worked really well!
Yo can start the next session like you ended here, with 2 feet off, then 3 feet off… and I bet you can get all 4 feet off too.
You can do this from a chair so your back doesn’t get angry from the bending over 🙂
>>Not a really high state of arousal but she was thoughtful and switched back and forth between food & toys.>>
It was actually the optimally high arousal state for the task! For this precision behavior (especially since it is new and really challenging) we don’t need her to be in the same arousal state as the BC games 🙂 In this session, she was exactly where she needed to be in terms of state of arousal (you can see it by the really sustained engagement). And the little bursts of toy play helped maintain it without pushing her over the edge into overarousal. Yay!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>This was very challenging and difficult in a small space.>>
Yes, it is challenging especially in a small space and ESPECIALLY with a whippet! When I did this with my baby whippet, I was always shocked at how quickly he could get to me (the speed of light LOL!!) I mean, I don’t know why I was so surprised, he is a racing whippet, but all those years of speedy non-whippets (even a half whippet!) did not prepare me for whippet speed LOL!!
The main goal of this is to give the handler the opportunity to get connected with the pup, practice fast then slow then fast, as well as the mechanics of using the cookies and toys. It is actually pretty easy for the pups but super hard for the humans 🙂
I think you did GREAT!!! It might have felt a bit awkward with her speed, but your timing was pretty strong! You clearly expect her to get back to you really quickly so on the first video (all that whippet experience is serving you well!) so you did the blind as soon as she started moving her first whisker towards you. And you kept your pivot slow, she she could stay tight to you as you turned.
I think the hardest part for her was knowing when to grab for the toy. You can see it especially on the 2nd video, where the BC was good too – I think she believed the toy was for her to grab after the blind. Same on the 3rd video – she finished the pivot and thought it was toy-grabbing time LOL!
So that is something we can clarify for her by adding a toy marker. The goal is that she ignores the toy in your hand until you give the marker that she can grab it. I say “bite!” as my toy marker, which means that dog can go ahead and bite the toy 🙂 And I try to say it every time I want the dog to tug from my hand (‘get it’ is for when I throw the toy). That has been really clarifying for the pups, because they can follow the handling and other cues without asking when they can have the toy so they are less ‘grabby’.
Plus, being less grabby for a toy has helped preserve my flesh – I don’t get any accidental tooth hugs or bleeding moments because I am preparing for the jaws coming at the toy, and the pup is looking at the toy when I saw ‘bite’.
So the next step would be to pick a word that means “you can tug from my hand now” and use it as consistently as possible when starting tugging. If it is new, no worries if you sometimes forget it, just keep reminding yourself to add it.
Great job here!!!
TracyGood morning!
Thank you Danika for the SpriteTV!!!
I really like what was happening here! It is a hard environment, she was relatively close to the action, and she was great.
>>She’s still more distracted than ideal in this video, but I thought she did pretty good.>>
Reframe this: she was not distracted, just observing the environment, which is exactly why you took her there. I don’t expect dogs to never look away, especially at the early stages.
She looked away when the gate steward started yelling and the electronic “Ready” word came across the speaker (at approx 1:05). I mean, that is loud and weird (“why is that person yelling??”) LOL!You held onto her (a bit of engaged chill to you perhaps, but to her it was an opportunity to observe the environment a bit) and then she was fine. Or, rather than hold onto her or try engaged chill, you can let her observe the environment through pattern games. There is likely to be a change in latency (higher latency) and that is fine and normal. If the latency is really high or she cannot look back towards you, just move further away and get back into the pattern.
Either way, she just needed a few seconds to be like “wait, what is that?” Then she was back to her fully engaged self. YAY!!
>But, she was pretty high at the start. Then, a little more volume dial and done. I forgot to give her a scatter. Oops!>>
On the video, her arousal state was a in a good place. She was engaged, responding beautifully… in a relatively high state of arousal but not overaroused. Remember that the high state is exactly what we want – it is the overarousal that we want to avoid. Dog training has made “high” into a bad word when the science says that high is actually optimal. So the quick responses and bit of muscle tension is closer to the optimal state and not overaroused. She was processing a lot of info (did you notice the other dog coming pretty close too?) but she did GREAT. YAY!!! Her body language and responsiveness for most of it as exactly like dogs look like before they go into the ring for a great run.
The scatter or snuffle mat can be done back at the car where she can take a long time to sniff around, or even at home. Decompression doesn’t always need to be super immediate as long as it does happen at some point.
>>After a break we went over to the practice jump. I didn’t have my “reality crew’ available at the time. But, she did a few line ups and jumps.>>
Fantastic!
It would be interesting to see what happens today if you go back. Did yesterday’s adventure deplete her, so she needs more time to recover and doesn’t do well today?
Or was she fine with it and not depleted, so she does the same or better today?
The only way to find out is to try it – and it will be useful info for deciding whether she can start her career with just one day of a trial or two days.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>>Thanks for the feedback on length of training. In my mind, I know better than to train to depletion. >>
I agree, we have always known better but sometimes we keep going because there is so much play involved. But thanks to the neuroscience people who are now helping us out, we have a fuller understanding of what is happening in the brain and body (especially adolescents brains/bodies – EEK!) so that has helped me tone down the length of my training sessions. Play can be just as depleting as learning moments for youngsters.
You can set a timer for sure. If you like having music playing in the background, you can start a song and then finish when the song finishes (that is about 2.5 minutes). Or you can get a puppy so the pressure of having another young dog to train keeps your sessions short. Kidding! LOL!!!!
>>I HATE having a toy in my hand (pocket is ok). Not sure why, maybe left from obedience…?>>
Same! I hate carrying a big toy in agility (not a problem in flyball) so I prefer it in a pocket or on the ground. I have no trouble carrying a ball or treats though. My guess is it awkward to carrying something big?
Looking at the video:
Lots of really great work here!! I agree that it went really well and it is really fun to see him growing up!!!
One thought –
Don’t be so quick to tell him “no” because most of the times where he heard it in this session, he was actually correct. Video never lies LOL!! We don’t want him second-guessing responding to the cues because he might be told he is wrong. See below for some handling examples, and also when he was going to the toy at 1:51 you had just said “atta boy” and then ‘get it’ so he was entirely correct to go to the toy. You did apologize and give him the toy. But the initial “no” is going to cause second guessing.
>>I was also working on trying to get Casper’s preferred toy out of my hands. I tried to let you see where it is. At the end, I had it in the middle and that seemed to work well. >>
He did really well learning to ignore his toy!!! That is hard but you have made significant progress in a short time. There were a bunch of reps where the toy was clearly off to the side and he ran the sequence like it wasn’t there. Yay!!! And having it in the middle was great too. Try not to leave it on his line like at :42, that is too hard for now and we do want them to consider grabbing toys we have placed on their line.
Looking at the sequences, dividing them into the challenges on the course:
For the tunnel threadle, you can give the left cues earlier, when he has landed from the pinwheel jump so he takes off for the jump before the tunnel already turning. That way you can give the threadle cue before liftoff and move to the tunnel threadle entry sooner too.
When you wanted NOT the tunnel and wanted the jump-jump line, you can trust his understanding of the handling cues more 🙂 I think he knows a LOT! You don’t need to turn into him like a threadle on those, you can turn your shoulders away to the next jump (and use a brake arm to indicate the jump after the pinwheel if he needs an extra boost of collection to make the turn). The brake arm like at 3:22 is really effective for him – nice collection!
On the earlier reps (1:05, 1:33, 2:33, 2:58), he was seeingthe identical physical cue and similar verbals as the tunnel threadle reps at :25 and :48 so he was thinking you wanted the tunnel and drifted out towards it. You were sooner to face the jump at 2:09 3:23 so he was tighter. I bet if you give the brake arm and turn your shoulders to the next jump before he takes off for the previous one, he will follow the 180 with a nice tight line and no glances at the tunnel 🙂 Yay!
>>. At the end, I played around with the BC versus FC. This is exactly the kind of situation where I don’t understand the BC. I am already facing my dog, why isn’t the FC easier. You have to rotate through over 180 degrees to get the BC and hardly any to get the FC. (This sounds argumentative but it is a real question.)>>
It doesn’t sound argumentative at all! It is a great question! On the BC, you can send to the pinwheel jump and takeoff up the line facing the tunnel. Then you can just look over your other shoulder to show him the blind. On this line, you would not already be facing him in this situation as you were running to the tunnel, so the FC will be later to start (you would have to slow down to do it) and later to finish (a full rotation takes longer than looking over your other side). Then the momentum might cause the hander to have to run backwards to finish the FC and maintain connection, which is what was happening here on most of the FC reps.
For example, at 2:38 – the FC there was a surprise to him, it was a little late. You would need to send away to the pinwheel jump and takeoff down the line to be able to get closer to the tunnel and start the FC when he has landed from the pinwheel jump and facing the next jump (or sooner, on smaller spacing).
Compare to the BC at 3:44 with GREAT timing!!! So easy!
So why did he go a little wide there? You were on the wrong line – as you finished the BC, you were running to the #2 tunnel entry and not the threadle side so even though he totally know to go to your left side, your motion sent him straight over the jump before the tunnel.
Your best timing of the FC was at 4:00 but the motion was towards the original end of the tunnel so you got a wider turn there.
Ideally, you would send away to the pinwheel jump from a lateral position that puts you on the line to the tunnel threadle. That way as you send and move down the line for either the FC or BC, you will be showing him the line to the correct tunnel entry sooner with your line of motion.
Looking at the pinwheel jump:
Putting a pinwheel into the sequence might not be fancy international stuff but we see it all the time on course and it is actually pretty hard!!He had a couple of handling-related questions about finding the pinwheel jump. This is where you can trust his understanding and turn your shoulders sooner. You were over-helping a little which was causing him to read the lines differently than you intended.
For example:
At :58 he went past the middle jump – it sounds like you said “go on” and you were facing straight forward. Even when you called him you were still facing forward. Young dogs are literal and he has a nice big stride… so he was correct to go straight and it was too late to make the adjustment and grab the jump after he landed. Try not to get down on him when he does that, because it is a 99% chance he is reflecting the handling. And if it is the 1% dog error? No worries, you don’t need to reward, you can keep going and turn sooner or show it clearly on the next pass through the line.When you resent at 1:03 you turned sooner plus there was no motion into it so he got it.
At 1:21 you said go on and were facing straight so he was going straight and caught the turn at the last moment but didn’t have time or space to adjust and to get the jump (1:22) He was reading you pretty well there and as an inexperienced dog, he doesn’t have the frame of reference to recognize the pinwheel like an experienced dog might.
At 1:29 you used a big left and come here verbal but the most important element will be to turn your shoulders and not face straight.
At 1:46 you said jump AND turned sooner and he produced lovely turns on both of the jumps there! So nice! This is more of what he needs to see 🙂
2:00 – this rep had a ‘go on’ over the jump after the tunnel then left when he landed so he scrambled
You were quiet at 2:23 and turning sooner so he was tighter.
As long as you stay connected, you can start turning your shoulders before he even takes off for the jump after the tunnel, so he is approaching the whole line on a slight curve rather than cuing that jump straight then trying to turn him.
>>The bar at the top of the pinwheel came down a lot. (It came down for Enzo, too, when I let him work this series.) Clearly, it is something I’m doing…
It is actually a really hard (and underrated) jumping effort. To get the collection organized, he needs to see/hear the turn cues starting no later than landing from the previous jump. The bar questions were when you were wanting to get further up the line:
At 3:01 – the handling went from a decel and shoulder turn that he had been seeing the whole session to a sudden acceleration and drive away as he was lifting off for the pinwheel jump. I like the send and run away element of getting the cross before the tunnel, so he just needs to see it sooner: as he lands from the jump before the pinwheel jump, you can start the send-and-leave. That should give him enough time to organize the jumping.
The other bar was at 3:59 – I think he was not really sure what the next line was (you were almost running towards a serp on the next jump) so he was watching you there.
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! It has been a crazy busy couple of weeks so it is totally understandable that it has been hard to carve out training time. And managing multi-dog households is definitely challenging, I feel that deeply!
>>I’m not sure how to work on his play behavior with the other dogs.>>
Because he has punctured other dogs, the best thing to do right now is put management in place so that he is not alone with the other dogs, especially outside. It will just be a lot of supervision so there are no more fighting incidents. Practice makes pathways, and practicing this can create neural pathways that are hard to undo and will roll over into other behavior too! So… supervision is the way to go.
>> When I’m home the back door is open and they can go in and out. So I don’t monitor them outside.>>
This is where some of the undesirable behavior is likely being rehearsed – so if you are home and the door is open, he can be in a room with you and not having free access to the outside. And if supervision is not possible (like being in the shower) then set the environment up safely, as if he was a baby puppy – a crate or closing the door to a room for those few minutes. It is a little extra work and supervision for short times, but it will make a major difference.
>>I can separate them but I hate that. >>
But they might not hate that! They might be far more relaxed with some separation in the short term. Being together in situations where things have turned into fight can be stressful for them all, so it cold very well be a lot happier for them all to do some separation for now when you cannot directly supervise. It will also help you reset the household dynamics.
>>Maybe I can spend some time outside with them and try the toy in mouth game and when I go inside separate Vinny out so he doesn’t stalk and chase? >>
Yes, that can totally help! You being outside to help them out will be great – you can redirect undesirable behavior and help the situation settle down a bit. And when you are inside and they are out, Vinny can be with you, or he can be outside and the others can be with you inside, without easy access to each other when you are not there to supervise.
That is a bit of a pain in the butt at first but it goes a long way to resetting the dynamics and stopping the rehearsal.
>>After tryouts Marky gets a big break and Vinny gets the majority of my training attention so I’m holding onto that as a positive.>>
Tryouts are really soon, so you will be able to manage and stop rehearsal until then… then you can get into the training.
Since we are all human and super busy at this time of year, it is 1000% perfectly fine to just manage situations in the short term, to stop unwanted rehearsals. Then when you are rested and able to devote time and energy to the training, you will have less rehearsal to undo and it will be easier to get things going in the direction you want them to go.
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
