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Good morning!
>>Thank you for the detailed feedback on Mason’s missing brain in class.
Don’t think of it as missing – he has a great brain! Think of it as a developing brain 🙂 Also, boy pups mature more slowly that girl pups in many cases, so that is part of it too. He is a really good puppy 🙂
>>The instructor is also my training buddy >>
Well that makes it a lot easier! You have a good relationship already and that is a nice starting point for conversations about how to help him out.
>>Mason is such a nice, confident boy. I want to do everything I can to support his wonderful temperament. The stress reaction took me completely by surprise.>>
He is SUCH a good boy!! And keep in mind: all puppies have stress responses to challenging scenarios… but some are better communicators about it (MASON! LOL!) than others. I prefer the big communication because we can help out better.
Looking at the videos:
>>Mason loves climbing on anything and everything. I’m moving around a bit here to get him to get on and off the plank and turn around. >>He did really well here! You can elevate the plank by putting it on blocks or something, so it is higher off the ground (maybe 6 inches?) and try this again. We will keep gradually raising the board. And moving around here helps by giving information about what he should do, so he was able to offer a lot of info.
>>When I tried to shape getting on and off he got frustrated and lied belly up on the ground. I guess I didn’t click enough>>
He is the KING of big communication, isn’t he LOL!!! So when you were standing still, he didn’t know what to do and did the belly up thing? That is good to know – it is entirely possible that you didn’t slice the behavior thinly enough and click enough. So, separately from the plank, choose something relatively big and easy (and meaningless, in terms of sports behavior) and shape him to get on it. Click as often as needed for every tiny interaction, and let’s see what he thinks about that.
Shaping is part operant, yes, so it is a good skill to have. But there is also a big resilience element to shaping because the dogs have to be resilient to those unexpected moments when we don’t click, or when they don’t know what to do. Yes, arousal levels come up and their bodies learn to manage frustration and arousal, so it is a great game in ways that have nothing to do with whether he gets on the thing or not 🙂
The backing up onto the board was great! YAY! You can use a smaller target as the destination to get him walking backwards straighter.
Looking at the prop games video:
I think the parallel path is going well. Some of what you are seeing in terms of him coming to your side is probably value built from rally and general leash walking training if you’ve been doing that. But he is touching the prop really well. You can start to reward earlier (as he is on the way to the prop, before he even touches it) – that will help keep him out on the line. Think of the prop as the jump bar in this scenario so he can go over it without pouncing on it.
Wow, countermotion looks fantastic! You are able to move away pretty early and he is continuing to hit the prop really well. Yay! This will transfer well to the other skills.
>>For the rear crosses I believe you said we didn’t need to worry if the dog turned the wrong way … so I didn’t, lol. Someday I’ll learn how to do a rear cross, maybe.>>
Ha! Correct! Generally we humans are late with the RC info so the dog is correct then the dog gets confused if we don’t reward. So on the reps at :37 and :52 and 1:10, you were late so as he was arriving at the prop, you were still on the ‘turn to me’ side – which is what he did. You were earlier at 1:02, so he did get the turn the correct direction!
What will help is if you start even further away (15 feet would be great!) and then cut behind him to the other side when he is still 5 or 6 feet away from the prop. That way, as he is approaching the prop, he sees you on the other side already and can make the change of direction. And in these early stages, if he doesn’t hit the prop – no worries! It will all come together when he gets used to seeing the rear cross.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>I swear I’m going to figure out how to keep myself organized with recording and training >>
Totally relatable LOL!! I set calendar reminders on my phone to poke me to remember to get things done 🙂
Decel and turn video: He felt this was super easy and perhaps the best game EVER. Eat a cookie, then come to you and eat a cookie? YES! At this stage, doing the pivot on all reps will help him keep his butt nice and tight to your leg. And you can take this outside (as long as the weather is OK) so that he can get more speed running to you, then see you slow down so he can decelerate into the pivot. He is ready for the collection sandwich game, where you start like this, throw a blind cross in before the decel, then after you decel and pivot: throw a toy ahead and do the toy races (the full explanation was posted last week).
And the tricks at the end were a good way to finish the session!
2nd video:
Hahaha “choose violence” with the tugging is fun chatter LOL!! He does love his toy! And transitioned really well to the prop. Nice!!
He definitely has good prop value!!
>>He gets the idea that he has to hit the prop but often enough turns into me then “remembers” about the prop. I’m guessing I should have kept the distance shorter for a few initial paths through, to make it a pattern.>>
I don’t think it was a distance question – I think he is asking if he should be heeling next to you, or prop hitting so he checked in first before going to the prop on some reps.
One thing that can help him read the cue to NOT watch you is to have your dog side hand/arm relaxed at your side. When it was holding a treat and you had you hand on your stomach, he was tending to look at you (this is a natural cue we often use when we are having the dog walk next to us).
But when your hand was empty and at your side, like at 1:24 – he never looked at you. Yay! The other hand can have the treats to toss.
Hooray for taking the blinds outside so you both have room to run!
You are both doing great here! The first part of the blind is perfect – you are not slow at all. Then I think you are over-rotating back to him after you finish the blind, which is causing your feet to turn too much – that might be why it feels weird.
So you can try this: rather than stop and reward him when he gets to you, make this strong connection that you did (it looks great!) and then throw the cookie past you as you keep moving forward. That way you can keep going and he can drive past you.
Great job here!! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! She looks FANTASTIC!!!! Everything about this was lovely: she is fast, focused, happy in the ring, executing the harder behaviors really well like start line, weaves, teeters, rear crosses. Happy dance!
And there was one moment where communication was not super clear (before the tunnel, I think the cue and rotation towards her was bigger than needed) but note how she did not get frustrated or change her behavior. Instead, she checked in to clarify, then carried on. YAY!! And continuing after the reward was terrific.
So much good here! And I love the videographer quietly cheering for you 🙂
I think you can keep working through the NFC progression and start fading the toy to outside the ring on some runs… moving towards real runs!!! You can still do toy-in-hand NFC runs, but you can mix in the In And Out (short runs with no toy) and then if that goes well, do some real runs!
Great job and thanks for the update!
TracyGood morning!
>>He used to be able to watch Marky work calmly and quietly believe it or not.>>
I totally believe it! Between the sport getting more exciting for him, and then the brain changing/developing through adolescence and into adulthood… I totally believe that this behavior changed. It is pretty normal though, I don’t want you to think there is anything wrong!
>>I’m always so pressed for time all I think about is getting them worked and what to work on that day. Add this to the list :-). >>
This is totally relatable, especially at this time of year. I often drive my van down to my agility field (which is about 100 feet from the house LOL!) so I can get training in and the other dogs can chill in their car crates. Sometimes when I have more time and energy, I will work on one being calm while the other works. But if I just want to train on sequences? Hello, car crates LOL! That way we are all happy!
>>After all that stimulation he did work very well so I’ll take that as a plus.>>
This is a HUGE win. He works beautifully and he has gotten even better during the short time I’e known him! Yay!!! He definitely finds movement reinforcing, so with that in mind:
>>I’ll need to figure out a nice reward for him when we get to the kennel or back to the house.>>
Anything that involves movement. Is there anything like a favorite toy he can run around with? Or chase?
>>I’m my worst enemy when it comes to enabling this behavior>>
You are NOT your worst enemy! You are figuring out what works and what doesn’t work while videotaping and getting int from others, and that means you are doing right by him ❤️
Safe travels to EOTT!! Have a blast!
Tracy
Good morning!
This went really well!Using the other room as the waiting area was clever! He seemed happy to do his pattern games and his volume dial game, no problem! And good job acting as if you were watching another dog run 🙂 He seems fine with that too, just asking for the cookie in your hand LOL!
>>Think I need to make more distance between us and the reward table,>>
I think it was good – even though it was relatively close, it was still in a different room which makes entering the ring really clear.
The only thing he thought was weird was when you went to the first jump on leash and tried to line him up. He was not entirely sure which way to face and flattened his body language a bit. But then as soon as the leash was off – he was happy to work and the mini sequence looked great. You can experiment with taking the leash off as you walk in then lining him up – that might be more comfy for him.
>>I think I mistimed the ‘Let’s go”?>>
it went well, especially on the 2nd round – he finished the lat jump, you praised, got the leash on, then gave him a very clear “let’s go” to go get rewards . Super!!
I know winter is settling in… what do you have coming up locally where you can take this on the road? Fun matches, local trials, ring rentals – anything where he can bring his skills to new places will be great!
Nice work here 🙂
TracyWheeeee! This is an exciting update!!!!!! Good boy 🙂 We are teaching his physiology how to handle the arousal and bounce back from it. And at 14 months old, his success is particularly lovely because teenage dog brains are pretty immature and often struggle with this.
>> how often should we do this? >>
Great question – because it is SO stimulating, I’d say once a week is the most you would want to do it, because his body will have to reset back to baseline between sessions. That can take 72 hours! So once a week should work well. Keep me posted!
Tracy
Good morning!
I hope it is not too cold there!!Huck’s first run had some baby dog moments of running past stuff while going fast. This often happens with young dogs because they are fast fast fast… but can’t always coordinate the mechanics need to make the sharp turn into the tunnel or take the jump on th backside. Good for you for just carrying on! He was trying hard for sure.
Because you didn’t make a big deal out of it, he sorted it out on the next run. Yay! And you helped with even more connection to be sure he could stay fast AND take the obstacles.
He is doing well on the first two jumps of the go line, and then looking at you for jump 3. To help him leave you in the dust and look straight, you can place a reward as a target for him (the manners minder might work great there) so as you are running you can click it when he looks ahead. That will help build up the understanding of driving ahead on a big line like this.
Mae was a super speedster on this! Love it!
On the FC on the backside jump 3 – stay closer to the entry wing, so as you finish the FC you are on the line to the 4 tunnel entry. You ended up past it on the first run so she was correct to go to the other end of the tunnel. (Based on what you said to her, it was a brain blooper LOL! )
On the 2nd run, you stepped across the bar on the backside so she turned a little wide – the closer you stick to the line you want, the tighter she will turn. The rear cross into the tunnel worked well on the 2nd video!That RC put you further behind on the big line at the end, so we can see her questions. To help her confidently drive ahead, using a target will really help too. A toy on the ground past jump 3 is great, or the Manners Minder for her too. That way you can get the behavior, and then we can fade it out. You were handling it well (running, connection, verbal) but she really was not sure that it was cool to get that far ahead of you (yes, Mae, it is totally cool to do that!). A placed reward or target will help get the behavior stronger.
Nice work here! Stay warm!
TracyHi! Some really good work here! And good info from Yuzu!
On the first video:
He did look at you like were nuts with the counting at first but it worked well 🙂 You can do a short snuffle mat after the tugging (not sure how long he was in the mat here) or toss treats too.The parallel path looked great! Very nice!!
You had an overarousal moment in the transition from the prop to the toy at 1:07. We can make it faster and easier for him:
– take out the ready word for now, as it is a hump trigger at the moment. As soon as he heard ready, even with the toy in your hand, he tried to hump you, then you pulled him off so he got more aroused and he grabbed your wrist. So… have the toy closer to you, and when it is time to leave the prop, get the toy out without a lot of stimulating chatter more like what you did on the 2nd transition. That was much smoother!
And to clarify for him what to focus on, pick up the prop before you do bring the toy out and also I think for now, not having a treat pouch will help: when you are asking for tugging but the prop is on the floor and there are treats in the picture, he is not entirely sure of where to look so doesn’t entirely grab the toy.On the countermotion game -he is hitting the prop nicely here too, so you can start to move the other direction away from it a bit sooner. On this clip, you can see how ‘ready’ gets a lot of arousal too (barked at you). So, you can use some casual and engaged body language but we can take out ready for now.
And pick up the book here too to clear the environment so he can focus on the tug.
What was happening at the end when he was humping you? Trying to end the session and leave? You can do that “we are done” with a pattern game so there is no frustration when the end of access to reinforcement is indicated by you gathering up your stuff and leaving. Plenty of dogs get frustrated in that “we are done” moment so we can help diffuse it with pattern games leading to a snuffle mat in a different room.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>We are not threadling yet though right? And when we send, it is dog side arm and leg?>>
Correct, we are not threadling yet (we actually start that foundation tonight!) On the sending… for turn and burn, yes, it is currently the dog side arm and leg (that will change as the games get wilder though LOL) The main different on the regular wrap versus the threadle is where the dog goes:
On a regular wrap, Taq puts the barrel between her and you, going out around it then back toward you. On a threadle wrap, she puts herself between you and the barrel, turning away from you then coming back. I will have some video examples tonight!Tracy
Because I did that wrong on the video in rep at 25 sec.
Hi! Yes, it is recorded and posted on the Course Syllabus page, and also here:
https://us02web.zoom.us/rec/share/mPTgFznrP_pmSBLQbQuO20stWIxJ-Pl_ojNk-SNJ-HV3K6Wzgf4XQjn-cs6zymRV.dF2KKn5Sb5nbQ_dLI am glad Mitre feels better!!! YAY!! Back to doing the fun things 🙂
Tracy
Hi! This went well too!
>>I did open up the angle from 1 to 2 as you’ll see he struggled with it on the first try and I didn’t want that to become an issue.>>
That is a hard angle indeed! And requires a turn cue – you can use a right verbal and earlier shoulder turn (so he sets up the turn a stride or two before takeoff), because it is a pretty significant collection for him. The tunnel verbal was challenging because that is a forward verbal (meaning, look ahead on the straight line) but this was a turn. Even with the more opened-up angle, he still jumped long on the tunnel verbal at :17 and :29 so that gives us a good indicator of how he processes “tunnel” as a forward cue.
The turn at :09 should be a wrap verbal ad you were using “left” – I think that is your soft turn verbal? Or am I remembering incorrectly? Or do I need more caffeine? LOL! Also, you can do it as more of a throw back (rotated sooner to cue it with your feet facing 7 and left arm) rather than trying to finish the rotation then cue the wrap.
Moving into the blind cross there added challenges and a bar down at :18 – you were decelerated by the 6 jump when he was exiting the tunnel, so he was preparing t turn then you accelerated forward into a blind so he was surprised.The blind would work better there if you were running into the whole time, then decelerated to start it. That would probably make more sense to him if you did not layer.
I think a FC might be a better choice there because it turns you feet to 7 sooner than the blind does and you can layer to get to it – the blind turns you to face 1 and 2 before showing 7.
>>For both sets, I kept him in the car crate as I set the courses up, walked each course, and practiced bringing him in and out on a leash. – setting up for each of the 3 tries per sequence. He did really well with that.>>
Yay! Great rehearsals!!
Nice job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyThe sequences are looking good! Your connection is getting really solid and that is the most important part.
He only had questions on 2 parts of this:
On the exit of the #2 tunnel, he was not sure about driving to 3. You can start your go for 3 before he enters the tunnel (:04) and then later in the sequence the jump cue (:11) can also start before he goes into the tunnel. Keep accelerating, don’t let him see you decel to set up the layering. If you don’t lead out as much, that’ll keep you accelerated there. He figured it out on the next reps but was still looking at you.The threadle was the other hard part. I think you were rushing a little and that was what made it challenging. He got the first one at :06, but then at :21 he didn’t get it – but it looked and sounded different than the ones he got at :06 and at :26
It looks like your threadle cue is a cross arm, so be sure to rotate at the waist more but don’t turn your feet – you turned your feet at :27 so he came in but dropped the bar.
At :34 you didn’t rotate but you will want to move towards the jump more until you see him lock onto it, then you can move away.
The last run looked better! I think you can slow it all down and let him see it and hear it clearly. That will also make the verbal clearer!Speaking of verbals, you were using a right verbal on the exit of the threadle jump – it is a wrap exit, and I think right is your soft turn cue? So a wrap verbal would be better there. If I am remembering incorrectly, please ignore this LOL!!
Nice work!
TracyHi! Good job here with the TSA Game – good job with the setup and I think this is looking really good!
Definitely rehearse this at home a lot where there is not as much arousal so it is not just at the training field.
>>It’s our first try at putting it all together so looking forward to your feedback.>>
It is more about interpreting his feedback and he did great here!!!
>>I felt his arousal and focus go up as we got close to the gate so that is really good to know>>
Yes for sure! I feel that with all of my dogs too 🙂
>>I tried adding in a few extra volume games there with food to get him focused back. >>
The arousal shift might be a good thing, though! We need a pretty high state of arousal to run great agility 🙂 We won’t really know til we try this with more dogs and people around.
The order of festivities looked good here! He was definitely engaged and ready to go into the ring, and I can see this being what you do in a trial setting.
>>Oh yea, sorry the leash coming off and going on wasn’t in the video, but he seemed to do really well with that part.>>
It seemed like it all went really well!
The next steps are to take it to a situation where other dogs are running, like in a class or group training so you can play with this with the distraction of other dogs doing agility. So, try it the next time you are with your training group or in a class and see what he says! Don’t be afraid of that higher arousal – that might be a very good thing! If you feel he is overaroused, too stimulated by the dog in the ring (not engaging with you, obsessing on the other dog, for example) you can add more distance and do more pattern games or experiment with volume dial with food or toys. Sometimes it makes perfect sense (like food is better than toys in that moment) but sometimes the answer is counterintuitive, like the toy is a far better choice, or tugging on the leash. He will let you know!
Tracy
Hi!
Correct, I don’t teach the RDW because it is all-consuming LOL!! And it is too different for each dog – most of the really good running dog walk courses are taught by people who only do RDW courses 🙂
My big beef with the way most RDW training is done is that it takes too long to get the correct angle of the down ramp and height of the dog walk – what he is doing here with the low plank is nothing like what his actual striding will be, and I don’t want to do the 10,000 reps required at each step of the way whenever the angle changes. So I personally would get the plank on a low dog walk and do a couple of sessions to get the foot targeting and back chaining it across the dog walk (some turns, yes, but we really don’t see this incredibly tight turn exits so no need to worry too much about them at this topping). Then raise the dog walk and get to full striding as soon as possible – that is where the real training is.
Since you are using the mat, have you tried Katarina Poplidnik’s course? I have heard good things. And I think there are a couple of other good ones out there, I can poke around if you want.T
Hi!
>>I was also thinking I could probably set something up with the larger group to make it more like a fun match with an entry gate, dogs in line, pretend judge, etc. Not as good as FEO/NFC, but maybe helpful? I don’t know of any fun matches locally.>>
Great idea!!! Brilliant! And I know a lot of the locals have young dogs that need this too. Maybe ask Suzie and Keith, who also have youngsters?
>>I was also wondering when working through the NFC work, do you move forward within one trial if the dog is successful or do you try and keep the same routine through the trial you are at?>>
It depends on the dog of course 🙂 If the dog is pretty much the same as he is a home training, then yes, I might go to the next step that same day. If things are a little harder for the dog, I will take longer to go to the next step.
And because our goal is to support the dog and because he is going to get rewarded – if you decide to try the next step and it turns out to be too hard, no worries at all! Nothing is ruined LOL!! You can go back to the previous step on the next run.
Tracy
