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Hi!
I am glad he is feeling better and back in action! He looked really good here.
>.I think it went better though to me it still seems he has a preference for his right lead.
I agree – the lead change game looks good and you can totally move onwards to the 2 jump game with low bars!
And it is normal that dogs have a side preference to varying degrees. We will see it more in the other games (see below) and it is good to know, because we can start the harder skills with him moving to his easier side.
The organizers looked strong too! That plank is perfect – the right lenght and width for him to get on at speed and organize. Nice!!! It was fine to have to get that sorted out before moving to the wing LOL!
He is doing well with his sits, both from the flat and then with more speed with the wing wrap before it. Super!! You might need to give him the sit cue earlier so he can process sooner (especially when he is turning left, on your right side) He was able to lock it in at about 1:29 when the cues were earlier and also when he was on your left (turning to his right).
I think we are seeing a slight side preference: He does seem to be slightly more organized turning to his right (when he was on your left in the last part of the video). Now, it is also possible that he had learned the game, so you can test the theory by starting on that side next time and doing the left turns in the 2nd half of the video.
But if there is a side preference, it is pretty subtle. Nothing to worry about and it is just useful info for planning future sessions.
Since he did so well here, the next step is to add a reward target just past the outer edge of the wrap wing, so he has a focal point. That way, when he finishes the wrap and comes around the wing, he can be focusing on the reward and not on your hands. An empty food bowl works well (you can drop the cookie into it), or a Manners Minder or even a toy if he can ignore it on his way to the plank.
My only other suggestion is to be sure he swallows the cookie before you ask for the next rep LOL!
When the reward target is in place and he is doing fine with it (will probably only take a few reps) you can move to using the entire jump with a low bar.
Great job! Let me know how he does with the next steps!
TracyGood morning!
>>He really blew me away with how well he handled Ashley Deacon’s courses. (which were amazingly fun and flowing so I hope that’s what we get at the Open too.
Ashley has definitely become one of the best course designers in the US!
>> Although I did notice he’s judging Gamblers and his Gamblers for us had 2 distance options (of roughly equal difficulty) as opposed to a lower pointed gamble that didn’t involve distance. So Gamblers finals may be interesting).
Right! Normally there is a mini gamble of sorts and then the ‘big gamble’ but I have no idea what he will do this year LOL!
>> I am leaning towards moving him back to 16in after the Open to see how his speed is now that he’s done more conditioning and jump training with this course. He has much stiffer competition at 16in given the cutoffs letting more BCs in, but I also think he can handle the height well at least for a few years and then we can drop back to Perf 12/12select later.
I agree that he can handle the 16″ height more and more. I also agree that there is a conundrum about all of the larger dogs jumping below their shoulders in 16, compared to our smaller dogs jumping above their shoulders. There is no easy answer for jump heights and the Shelties certainly have done well in AKC 16″ over the years, where the 18″ BCs run as well!
>>am not sure I want to be schlepping the plank over to the practice ring. I could bring my doughnut yoga mat small organizer just to do a little bit of organizer work though. Does it make sense to go back to the smaller organizer when we’ve been using the plank? Or I can see if we have space for a ready jump with a 4ft bar.>>
I was going to suggest just the platform organizer to remind him of tight sits – you don’t even need to do it with a jump, it can just be a bit of exercise and warm up for him. So no need for extra schlepping LOL!
Tracy
Good morning!
You and Ripley looked great on Saturday! Hope you had fun at the fun match – those are sadly extinct on the East Coast 🙁
3 jump zig zags looked really strong! He held his balance and power nicely; the bouncing looked easy 🙂 The first few reps had him in that sideways sit (next to the wing) which gives him the element of a little zig zagging (the angles made the rest of the line straight). After about :34, he was sitting facing straight to the bar so try to keep him more in that angled position to start especially as you make the angles harder now.
You can probably flatten them significantly now so he does that back-and-forth jumping effort – if this was 90 degree and flat is 180, maybe try it at 135 degrees which should be halfway. If he is successful at that angle with the stationary toy and your chill motion 🙂 then you can add the moving target. And then we keep tightening the angles 🙂
The front side slice is also going well! He was thinking hard about using his rear when he had more speed coming in because it is easier to shift his weight forward. But he was successful each time!
Adding the MM was perfect – it gave him a good focal point an he did really well on those reps too. Super! So the next step would be for you to stay in motion the entire time – the cues to get on the plank and sit are the same, but you are slowly sliding through serp position.
When he is happy with that, you can change his angle of approach o include the backside approaches.
Great job here! He is progressing really well!!
TracyGood morning!
>> It is not easy stuff though and she is very, very much a baby!!! I think the experience thing/baby dog brain is a BIG factor in this!! >>
Yes, it is a LOT and she has only just begun competing. I like your idea of doing a lot more FEO runs – maybe consider making most or all of your runs FEO for now! This will be especially helpful when the environment is harder, like in T2B or FAST where everyone is there and everyone is yelling LOL!
>>I did take her out and practiced a lot of our previous class work on getting ready to trial!! I took her out while a course build was going on. Just seeing the equipment and the gate gets her little head spinning lol!
Great! Keep practicing those skills – the quieter classes are best for now, because it will be easier for her to be successful.
The zig zags are going well! She is generally bouncing thm nicely when you are on the other side of the jump from where she starts – she had one rep of adding a stride at :14 so it indicates that it is still challenging to her!
One suggestion about the setup: start her closer to the first jump, so she does not take a stride before liftoff – ideally, she lifts off from her sit and powers through (this is HARD!). You might need to overlap the wings to shorten the distance a bit when she starts closer, to help her out.
>>She needed a little handling help with me on the same side as her and this was her hardest for her>>
On those reps, like :34 and after, having you start on the same side as her inverts the setup so she won’t be able to bounce it – she has to go out around the wings to find the 2nd jump so ther eis no bounce line. So for this setup, you can always be on a line where she will have a straight-ish line thorugh the jumps and won’ thave to go around where the wings meet. Let me know if that makes sense or if I need more coffee 🙂
Great job here!!
Tracy
Hi!
The dog path over jumps is about 18-20 feet for each sequence. The course maps with the grids are here:
so you can see on the very first set up, jumps 1 and 2 are about 20 feet apart and jump 2-3 are bout 33 feet apart (those jumps don’t really move :)) Then when we add the jump in the middle, it is about halfway between those 2 jumps (about 15 feet from the center of the bar of 1).Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyHi! Hope you had a good weekend!
She did really well here by finding the #1 jump all the different ways 🙂
Sequence 1:
You started her on more if a slice at :20, and that was great! When you release her, you don’t need to push towards jump 2 as much (that is what pushed her to the backside) or pull her in then send out – you can move to the outer wing of 2 and she will find the line.Seq 2 is harder and she is doing really well finding the slice away from the course! NICE! And she is needing less handling to do it: at :21 and :59 you said jump, so she jumped 🙂 It was fun to see her look at the jump and take it when you said jump, so keep being consistent about using the jump verbal release in this context.
Looks like you went back to a bit of “strike a pose” for the threadle to 2! You can keep the the threadle arm out, no need to push back to the #2 jump (that is what caused her to go to the backside at 1:11). By keeping the threadle arm in position and moving to the outer wing of 2, that is her cue to come in and go out to take the #2 jump.
And because it is a really hard skill, you can angle the #2 jump so she sees a better line to the correct side of the jump too as you work on the threadles.
Great job with all the stay rewards too – looks like she was doing a great job with her stays!!
Nice work here!! Let me know what you think!
TracySo you were trial secretary AND you managed to kick *ss, finishing the IAC and winning enough classes to get the IWAC?? WOWZA!!! I bow to you! I think he is liking his 12S height and also all of the skills are coming together!!!
The video looked great!On the front side zig zags, when he was sitting next to the wing jump on the left side of the screen – the wing was moving. I couldn’t see what was causing it but I think he was either close enough that his right hip was hitting it or his front feet were touching the foot of the wing. When he was on the wingless going the other direction, he didn’t touch anything. And when he did the backsides? No problem at all. So he can be a little further from the wing on the front side zig zags 🙂
The backside zig zags were hard for sure but he did a great job! He was really thinking about where to put his feets as he was coming around the wing for the backside approach, then he jumped it powerfully.
>>He had trouble on 1 backside slice at 4in,>>
That was at approx :36 – I think it was an anomaly, not any real trouble. Watch his head as he passes the backside wing: he shakes his head as if there is something in his ear. Maybe a bug in the ear? No worries, it was not a jumping question 🙂
Since he had no trouble with the motion, we can add in motion motion and even harder angles (and eventually taller bars) after the US Open. But he is now in the bubble wrap phase – so you can do some plank or platform organizers but no need to do any real agility 🙂 We will pick things up after the US Open.
Great job here! See you in Florida!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>. I can’t really run yet and I forgot about the backside.You looked really strong here, and not running a lot was actually helpful for her on the challenging lines! No worries about the backside, you would easily be there if you tried for it.
Looking at the video:
She did well with all 3 variations but yes the throwback was the best (because she is a MaxPup alum and we taught that skill ridiculously early to a foot target prop LOL!!) And she was so happy to jump away from the course partially because of the value of the jump skill you were asking for, and partially because she is too inexperienced to understand the value of the full courses LOL! That is part of why I like teaching this skill to young dogs 🙂
You can add in starting her on a bit more of an angle to the jump, and add in releasing with the jump cue too! But overall, looking good 🙂
Slice starts: I think she was a little too close to jump 1 – she was not sure how to stride into it on the first two reps. You can move her back about one stride, so she has more time to make the decision.
Dang look at how well she is turning on 2 (:22 for example) and look at her commitment to the wrap (:32 for example) . And a MASSIVE CLICK/TREAT for you for your connection on the exit of the wrap at :33 – you were way ahead but connected so she could process the info and run really well!! More on processing below 🙂Slicing away from the course was easy for her – the threadle part was hard!! But you sorted it out and the throwbacks looked GREAT! I know you’ve been working on collection and we can really see it coming together here. She was putting in the proper stride before takeoff so she could turn really nicely on the wing on the wraps!
She had a question of not taking the first jump at 1:19 – probably a little too much opposite arm/rotation on the release so she didn’t take the jump, also you said OK not the verbal for the jump (I don’t think she was simply going to the food bowl there) – she figured it out on the next reps but you can definitely fade the “ok” and to the jump verbal. If she struggles to release on the directional, you can start it without a stay: hand in collar, say the directional, then let go. Then move to her next to you but not in a stay or in a sit position – start the verbal then give a little motion if needed. then you can add the stay and release with the directional.
Also, as a young dog, she is definitely not expecting that a threadle would happen on jump 2! She was doing the normal young dog thing of finding a line (this is a good thing!) and by the time she heard the threadle info, it was too late to process. No worries at all, it is not a super important skill. The important skill here was what was happening on jump 1.
>> We’ve forgotten about threadles and I dislike them as I never seem to get it right. After a break I used food bowls to help her. But, I’m walking backwards which needs to stop. I’m pretty sure my position and feet aren’t ideal.>>
The food bowls were definitely helpful! Just be sure to place it further from the last jump when you are running the full line, so she can jump in extension.
Back to threadles: On threadles with sweeter more flowing lines, you can run forward through them. This is not one of those LOL!! This is more of the American-style threadle where the turn is very severe. And on those, foot rotation is highly acceptable!!! We did an experiment with high level experienced masters dogs (national finalists, super experienced handlers) on a course at a seminar last summer: there was a European-style threadle and an American-style threadle (like this one, or the ones we see in AKC Premier or USDAA), For the Euro threadles? The handlers were all easily able to get it by running forward. For the American threadles? Nope, not a single one could get it running forward – we added foot rotation on those, and every single one of the dogs got it, every time, in any context.
So if you need to get her through a crazy tight threadle like this? Turn your feet 🙂
>>Also, I have a friend who constantly tells me Sprite has classic ETO symptoms when she watches our videos. So, it’s getting in my head. >>
Your friend is NOT being helpful at all. Tell the friend to STOP. First of all, “classic” ETO symptoms look like very distinct stutter-stepping, hesitating, flinging. Nothing of the sort is happening here. Also, ETO is just something agility people came up with to describe how a dog processes information, for reasons that are not fully known. It is possible that those dogs have a visual processing issue? If so, we don’t see that til the dogs are 3 or 4 years old anyway. And also there are injuries that cause jumping questions from the dogs.
>>Are you seeing anything concerning?
We know more than ever about how the dogs’ brains process information… and we know more than ever about the adolescent dog brain. With that in mind: I see a typical 21 month old dog processing a whole lot of info and doing a great job! She is still an adolescent, which means her brain is not fully developed yet in terms of the ability to fully handle the multisensory integration and the sensorimotor integration of all the things that happen in agility. This includes everything the brain needs to do, then it has to tell the body, then the body has to do it. All while running really fast.
So sometimes she is trying to figure out which lead to choose when jumping (like on the 2 reps of the slice jumping towards the course (2nd part of exercise 1), that is why she can start a stride or two further from the jump so she has more time to process. Sometimes she is producing GORGEOUS turns on the wraps (which is something she could not do nearly as well a few months ago).
Sometimes when you get way ahead and run fast and she can’t process that and lands on the bar. Oopsie! Too much sensory input and the chase takes over in the brain, leaving no bandwidth for thoughtful jumping organization (every single one of my dogs have done this at the same age that Sprite is now, which is why I don’t go to full height early on and I don’t run too fast when they are baby dogs). For example – I ran the youngsters at a trial yesterday and chose rear crosses in places where I cold have run like mad to get the blind… but the trial was in a new location (indoor barn) with an unfamiliar footing AND I have laryngitis. So with all of that to have to process (new place! New dogs! New footing! Why does mom sound so weird?) I chose to dial back the motion so there was one less thing for them to process -and they were very successful. I ran like mad with the 9 year old dog, because of all the years of experience behind him 🙂
>>She could pick closer takeoff spots when running a straight line.
She is not likely to add strides on straight lines if the cue is all about extension 🙂 It is our role to make sure she has enough bandwidth to process the information to a body and brain that is still changing daily, and process it in time to make an informed jumping decision! Plus, we absolutely have to consider how structure will inform the way each dog moves, which changes the jumping form picture. An Aussie and a BorderWhippet and a Rat Terrier and a Sheltie and a Border Collie and a Papillon… they are all built very differently, and will move differently, and therefore will look different in their jumping efforts. In agility, we see soooooo many BCs and Shelties that we tend to think that all jumping will look like that: well, structure informs jumping so my Papillon will never ever look like a Sheltie. And my Whippet will never look like a BC.
So please tell your friend to stop with the not-helpful ETO remarks. We all bring enough neuroses and catastrophizing and insecurities to training our baby dogs that we don’t need it from outside sources LOL!!!! You are doing everything right: training her understanding with a high rate of reinforcement, isolating her jumping skills, and letting her grow up and mature without pressure on her mind and body. I wish everyone would handle their youngsters like you are!! And since I get to see her a lot no video, I am VERY excited about what she was producing here on these lines!!!
What the future holds in terms of jumping form? We don’t know, for any of our young dogs. But we do know how dogs process information, so we can plan to educate her and deliver information in a way that she will successfully process. Let me know if that makes sense!
Great job here 🙂
TracyGood morning! Hope you had a good weekend!
She did well here, I don’t think you added too much motion. You were slowly walking and that is fine. She needed a couple of reps to figure out to take the jump even when you were rotating, and then she was fine! Be careful not to do tooooooo many reps – by the end she was pretty fatigued (it is harder than it looks for the dogs!) which might be why she was a little less engaged especially on the 2nd to last rep.
>>I felt like when I was doing it she was lining up well, but the video shows her angling herself more than I thought she was.
She was fine with her angling there – partially because the dogs do angle themselves a little on a wrap, and partially because she was watching your food hand because she is SO HUNGRY hahahahaha (ok, maybe not starving but there was nothing else to look at other than the food LOL!) So, we can now add a reward target to this game to help her know where to look – an empty food bowl on the ground, past the exit edge of the wing, so she can finish the wrap and get the cookie without looking at your hands. The head-down position will help the jumping and she will organize herself and watch you less. She will still watch you a little but you will see her looking at the bar more.
That jumpers run was a big bummer, you both ran it really well – on the closing line there was a BIG bang (:42) and then she on the last jump, she was jumping into the fence AND into the person walking by. Poor girl, that was a LOT. The rest was great!
>>Trying to be patient because I’ve been working on this a nano second, but felt a little down today about it>
Understandable! Because you are a science geek like me – Because she is still so young, her brain is not yet fully formed and able to process ALL the things while also process & produce high speed motor patterns… you are going to see some bars in the early stages. Two things need to happen:
– she needs more experience so the big things to process (environment, noises, people walking in front of the last jump dear god why do people dog that?!?!) are no longer at the forefront of her brain, and her brain has more bandwidth to think about the little things like organizing her body.
– her brain needs to finish be an adolescent brain 🙂 Nothing we can do about that other than wait it out LOL!!!
So with that in mind, and especially since she is doing so well – don’t obsess too much, just keep working on it and exposing her to different environments. You might also consider leaving her at 8″ in competition for a while, til her brain & body matures and til the training clicks into place. Then back to 12″ will be easy. I have decided that all of my dogs will spend the first year of competition at their preferred height then I will go to the regular height when they are growded up and ready, in mind and body. Contraband spent the first year running 16 and now he is moved up to 20.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Hope you had a fun weekend!>> And yep, he was watching my hands and not the toy. I usually keep my treats in a pocket but had on jeans and well……treats won’t fit in those pockets :0>>
I think the hardest part of the zig zags is finding a reward target that the dogs will look at LOL!!! Once we have that, the rest is easy 🙂
>>The platform is 2′ or a little longer so yeah…I do think it will work for the next Organizer games.>>
Perfect! Have fun!
TracyGood morning! Hope you had a good weekend!
This session looked really good! he was striding really well to the stationary target and also did really well when you introduced the moving target.
Yes – the next step is to flatten the angle a little bit but also to change his start spot. Rather than have him facing the bar and line directly, have him start by sitting parallel to the wing so his shoulder and hip are right next to the wing. The further wing on this clip is the white wing, so you can have him sitting pretty close to it, with his left shoulder and hip next to it and maybe 6 inches away – that way he is parallel to the wing and the bar, and has to jump to his left over bar 1 (rather than straight). This gets more zig zag going and helps prepare him for the backside slice approaches (because the sit spot is where he would be coming around the wing on a backside slice approach).
I don’t think this will be a problem for him at all, so you can start him in that spot and flatten the angle by 2 inches or so, and see how it goes 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I’m glad you enjoyed the zoom session, it was such a fun group of people and dogs!!!
The tunnel threadle we were mentioning is the tunnel “bypass” also know as the non-obvious side of the tunnel when she can see both entries. So if she is on a line to one end of the tunnel, a tunnel threadle would be used to pull her off that line, towards you, and to the non-obvious side of the tunnel.
She did well with the slice jumps!!! It think jumping to her left (first part of the session) was harder than jumping to her right (2nd part of the session).
Two ideas for you make it even easier:
You can use a target or placed reward on the landing side, so she has something to focus on as you get further and further away.Also, you can try releasing her with a “jump” verbal instead of a break cue. Dogs often interpret “break” as come to momma! But on this one, we want her to move away so a jump verbal might support it better.
Let me know what you think!! She’s doing well and I am excited to see more!
TracyHi! I really loved this session, adding arousal is exactly what she needs! It took a couple of reps at the beginning to sort out the mechanics (for her) and the timing (for you) but then you and Maisy got into a really great rhythm. I especially liked how she was go around the wing then to the plank SUPER FAST but think about her organization and get into position so nicely. Yay!!!!!
She only had one error, on the 2nd to last rep. We’ll just chalk it up to fatigue, the rest of the session was great.
So on the next session, do maybe only 3 or 4 reps on each side total. And, keeping eveeything else the same, you can add the next step: instead of giving her a treat when she sits, you can release her to go over the bar. This will get even more flow to the game.
Great job! Let me know how the next session goes!!
TracyGood morning!
Looking at the zig zags:
I think she did well here! She was definitely working her body on it – not lacking confidence, but definitely working her body.One suggestion is that the reward can be further from jump 2 (like where you had it at 1:28) and you can be next to the reward, so your position supports the acceleration and extension (we don’t want her to ask if she should collect on the 2nd jump because you are standing still near it).
Otherwise, I would keep going with this progression. For now, keep the bars at 8″ and add motion: a little bit of you moving forward to the stationary reward, then add the moving target reward (so the reward and you are both moving :))Then, raising the bars is the last step – and when you raise the bars, go back to the reward and you both being stationary.
And you can do this twice a week, and definitely not every day. It is hard for the dogs!
Organizer sits with the wing: the sits are looking really good! When you are facing her, you can slow down the reward mechanics after the release so she can slice in front of you – you were moving fast on the first few reps so she was also trying to go fast, which resulted in going to the wrong side of the wing. When your hands were a little slower, the line was clearer and she looked strong!
Adding the wrap with you on the front side – this was harder for her indeed! Her sit was not quite as tight, and her butt would sometimes pop out on the release rather than propel her forward. But, the more she practiced it, the better she got: the last 2 reps were spot on!
So to add in more encouragement for forward propulsion and commitment, you can add a reward target at the outer edge of the wing, on the exit of the wrap (same side you will be on). This will help keep her head down and also help her be sure about committing without needing the verbal in this scenario. It can be a food bowl, or a toy – whatever is relatively easy to ignore because it will definitely add some excitement to the game (which is great because we want her to be excited AND still remember to organize her hind end).Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
