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Hello and welcome!! Nimble sounds VERY FUN!!
And yes, we do a lot of processing and concept work so we have the handlers move but not always run – then add in the motion more and more š Keep me posted!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
This definitely a hard game (and very useful). Part of the challenge, especially with young dogs, is simply exposing them to the concept that yes, there can be 3 obstacles right next to each other and the answer is not always the closest obstacleā¦ and the verbal cues are what will help differentiate them. So hard! She did well here though – lots of good reps and she was happy to keep trying to solve the puzzle.
I liked how you had your tunnel verbal low and long, hup was short and higher, and the weave verbal was basically in between the others, in terms of pitch and length. That will totally help!
With the young dogs as they get started, I have found that holding their collar so they can hear the verbals 3 or 4 times before moving really helps. They want to move as soon as they hear anything, but sometimes the body is moving faster than the brain is processing the words š so they donāt get the correct obstacle.
Your handling line was helping her at first by turning towards the jump, so you can take that out, I think she will still find the jump pretty easily.
Weave and tunnel were on the same line of the motion so it really did become about the verbal. Perfect! You did add some motion to help at first, which basically showed her the concept of finding the weaves and the tunnel in the mix of obstacles there. It looks like you were fading it out later in the session, which is great!
This is the type of game to let her sleep on for a couple of days (latent learning), then revisit it to see what got locked in š You can also spread the obstacles out more, that might help her differentiate. And you can mix it up to really work the verbals: change the other of the obstacles in the layout, or use only two obstacles at a time: jump versus tunnel, weaves versus tunnel, jump versus weavesā¦ then sometimes put all 3 back together.
She is off to a great start here! Keep me posted on how she does when you revisit this!
Tracy
Good morning! Thank you for the trial runs, I love seeing them!!!
I would say these runs were 95% brilliance and 5% tweak the cues. There is too much brilliance to write about each excellent spot š Overall – fabulous connection from you, and you always fought to hold onto the run and keep her going, even when you got behind on those lines. And you kept going after a blooper without worrying her about it.
She jumped in towards you on all the backside slice stuff here, you really supported her with that! And lots of really great independent commitments too.There were really only 2 things that ābitā you here across the runs:
– contact exits
– Tunnel exitsLooking at contact exits: There was an error at the beginning of MS Agility where she turned to her right after the frame in the opening, then considered wrapping the jump again (another reason I never cue multi-wraps on course LOL!) and then continued to a line elsewhere. I couldnāt see the handling on the video, so I am not sure why it happened – do you remember what your plan was there and what happened?
The other 2 contact exit spots were in the gamble and in MS Agility off the dog walk. In both of those moments, she was not really knowing what the next line was – partially inexperience (especially in MS Agility) and partially not enough info (Gamble). Because she is so young, she has probably not seen a lot of different exits off running contacts yet and probably assumes to go to the most obvious obstacle unless told very early not to.
One thing that will help in the gamble and probably also off the frame in MS Agility is to begin delivering the info for the next line no later than when she reaches the apex of the frame. That way she can exit the direction you want – but it will take some practice so she can maintain her criteria AND make the turn.
The RDW in MS Agility looked GREAT and the weaves were really hidden (least obvious obstacle) so it is a good challenge to set up! A good summer project will be so show her more of the āfind the non-obvious obstacleā off the running contacts and stronger obstacle name verbals – the game posted this week begins that work in isolation and we can add it to the contacts soon too!
The rest of the MS Agility run looked fabulous!
The other questions on the courses all involved tunnel exits! I love finding simple patterns that are easy fixes! On the blooper moments, the info about what to do next was not delivered (or slightly incorrect info was) before she entered (she needs to see and hear it when she is still 2 meters before entering the tunnel). When you gave the info to her? No problems at all.
In Speedstakes 1, you converged after the straight tunnel at :19 and she read RC correctly. Keep your arm down, connect, run run run š
The rest was NICE!Sweepstakes 2 – nice spin in the opening to get the jump and not the tunnel. That is a HARD novice line!
She went on a big line after a tunnel at :25. There was a lot of GO info but no turn info before she went into the tunnel thereā¦ so she took a guess of the big line based on your forward motion.
Your video person said āChoices were madeā LOL! And yes, they were based on the info, good girl! I would much rather have the big fast line at this stage than slowing down and questions.
The rest was great!
Senior Speestakes: here is an example of clear turn info on the tunnel exit and she got it really well at :13!
There was a refusal on the tunnel exit at :18 – you were saying āgoā but also turning and decelerating while softening the connection so she had a good question: go or turn, human? More forward motion til she locks on the jump will get it. I think you were probably still trying to figure out how much GO she needs on tunnel exits – and this one shows that she is indeed paying attention to the cues and handling!
Novice jumping – did she break her stay as you began to look back at her? Be sure to watch her as you lead out š
She had a question on the tunnel exit at :25 – lots of go go go but there was no obvious line out ahead, plus a bit of convergence so she turned away looking for the go line. You can give her a go and then a backside cue before she enters – basically saying āgo straight then fund the backsideā. You might not even need the go cues – the backside cue might be all she needs there.
MS Jumping – really nice job holding on to this twisty course while having to handle from behind for most of it.
Super nice opening!
After the weaves, you did a decel and send into the layered tunnel and she saw you pulling away, which might have made it harder to get the backside after it. You can leave her more in the weaves to layer sooner so you are further ahead on the tunnel exit. Great job getting the BIG connection to get the backside!Music in the SS final was awesome! Crowd cheering was so fun! Great run!
So overallā¦. SO MUCH BRILLIANCE!!
We can shift training/handling focus to the contact and tunnel exits.Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
>As for setting him up further from the jump, heās a bit of an ETO dog and also worries about dogs behind him and other things in the environment. Setting up close to the jump and using his āmarkā cue helps him stay focused on the jump (and therefore tune out all the things heās worried about). Iām also suspicious his ETO contributed to this worry when I set him up further away. Heās happy at that distance, so I stick with it!>
Ah! That makes total sense. His āmarkā to the first jump is excellent!!!
>The second run where it was the sequence after the teeter, I think part of it was I had to use a leg slap/attention/come with me cue to make sure he didnāt go in the āunauthorized tunnelā sitting temptingly close right ahead of the teeter. >
There was a LOT going on in that section of the course – obstacles everywhere and needing to get the soft turns which are harder than the other types of turns, in many ways. So then my question isā¦ do you think you can handle without the leg slap or clapping (which you didnāt do here but did elsewhere). The reason I ask is that when I see the slaps and clapping, universally it doesnāt have a really strong effect (in terms of overriding motion) and it also delays the more important info. So I wonder if going directly to your other cues would make the info more effective and earlier?
>Which cue is it? (I did use the right one, jump, but I think I called the next jump hup, and it was just a go on to the A-frame, but my brain was still left behind on āwhat word is that again?ā)>
The week 3 package has specifics about how to run without your brain saying āwait, what word is that again?ā I am looking forward to it because verbals are so useful but also can be so distracting if we are trying to remember them in the moment.
>Busy work week this week, and going camping until Tuesday, then heāll need a bit of recovery after all the hiking and kayaking. Maybe we skip the ISC trial that following weekend and do some training!>
Sounds like a fun weekend after a busy week! And the ISC trial might be fun because you can play with timing of tunnel exits, layering stuff, etc. Who is the designing judge?
Have fun!
TracyWelcome back! I hope you had some time to relax and explore in Germany!
I think this went REALLY well!
> I did the wrong side at first (letās pretend it was jet lag), >
It is good to work both sides and I try to work to the dog’s stronger turn direction at first one these (except in the demo I was deliberately working the weaker direction, in the hopes of getting some good bloopers going LOL!)
The key for Mochi is setting the line parallel to her TW path on these. When you did that? she nailed it. When you did not, and you ran forward for too long? She took the front side of the jump.
For example, on Rep 2 – your physical line of moving forward overrode verbals and hands at :16. Compare the difference in your line/shoudlers/feet when you turned to be parallel to her threadle wrap line at :22! Nailed it!
You set the line pretty well on the other side too, you can turn away parallel to the line even more – exaggerate it in higher arousal situations so she doesn’t miss it.
The timing was good when you did the blind on the tunnel exit – she was seeing the TW cues as she exited. Super!
Now about the timing when you are coming from a jump: you were tending to begin setting the line as she was over the bar or landing from it, so while she did get the TW at :50 and 1:15, it was a little late (bar down at 1:15).
I liked your timing at 1:28 the best! She was one stride out of the tunnel and you were already getting your shoulders turned to set the turn on the jump and then show the line to the TW. Even with the other jump a little in the way, adding pressure on your line, she found it really well! YAY!
The one spot where she took the front of the bar was where you were definitely late starting and you never quite turned to the TW line at 1:04-1:05.
So definitely prioritize getting your line of motion turned to be parallel to the TW line and I bet you will be able to get the correct side of the jump very consistently. And when she gets the correct side of the jump, the wraps are looking great!
Great job here! Have fun at the cabin and happy training as you de-feralize Jimmy š
Tracy
Hi! Thanks for the trial runs, I love watching them! These 3 runs might not have been clean but they sure do show that you and Roots have so many fantastic skills! Plus you handle with great connection and you don’t break connection (or at least you didn’t on these runs) – that is awesome and also rare, we handlers break connection all the time LOL!
So these are what I would consider heartbreaker runs, in that they were mostly gorgeous winning rounds except for one damn thing. But, we can work the one darned thing – I like to find patterns in our handling errors (because we humans are consistent with our errors LOL!) and then fix them and then boom! No more errors and the clean rounds will outnumber the bloopers.
Run 1 – really fabulous skills here! He had great forward focus on the first jump – set him up further back so he can be faster through the start lights and have a faster overall time š
On the layered section where he came in towards you:
\> I thought I accelerated well enough after for him to carry on to that second tunnel. Not sure what else I could do.>I have an idea! OK two ideas š
About the verbal: you were saying tunnel, but he might need more of a GO GO GO GO instead of just tunnel. You had the GO happening off the RDW so before he enters the tunnel, give him more GO TUNNEL GO GO TUNNEL and so on š He might even need a “GET OUT” cue to keep him away from you there.For the physical cue: it was one of the only times on this video that your arm came up WAY high (I call it ‘giraffe feeding position’ š ) When you arm comes up that high, it actually turns your shoulders *away* from the line you wanted him to stay on. You can see him look at you as as he passes the jump then decide it must be the closer end of the tunnel.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1yX9Pavy7saJyXeIArhABNunlt4OK8m6gjB5iniPOERA/edit?usp=sharing
When we want him to work that far away especially with layering, either keep your hand low so he can see your shoulders facing the line you want (as you maintain BIG connection and deliver the verbals to his cute little face, which also turns your shoulders to the line). Or… use an outside arm to keep him out on the line (I would use an outside arm here for sure). It is the same intense connection, but now the opposite arm points to the tunnel entry you want which turns the shoulders to the line you want.
>! The bars at the end I THINK were influenced by the sun coming in that door. Future trials we will probably close the big back door at the end of the day when itās bright out.>
Totally agree! And the sun might have played a role in his questioning of the tunnel-tunnel line too, requiring more exaggeration of your shoulder position.
On the 2nd run:
>He was probably looking at the tunnel, but I hate having to figuratively wave a giant flag in his face to get him off a tunnel >
I think he was driving the line you had set over the jump after the teeter, which had too much extension and not enough shoulder turn. In your defense, there were all sorts of obstacles in your way so a shoulder turn was brutal to try to show. But a brake arm (handling the jump after the teeter with 2 hands to get collection and override you needing to move into the line) would be very effective there!
You used the brake arm/outside arm at 1:16 very effectively and in a few other spots too, so you can look for these clusters of obstacles where you need to turn him but can’t necessarily rely on feet/shoulders/motion – and that is a great spot for a brake arm (or a spin, as a last resort LOL)
Looking at the tunnel exits on this run and the next run that resulted in faults… it comes down to telling/showing what you want before he goes in. In both spots, the info happened much later so he exited in the wrong spot. Easy fix for both – in the walk through, start telling him what you want on the exit no later than 6 feet before the entry (we have been doing this with Beat :))
> The part after the weaves, in hindsight I should have run the other side and rear crossed the tunnel as the handlerās path supports that next jump better that way. After pushing out of the weaves into the tunnel I had to cut away at too much of an angle to not run into the start jump so he came out paralleling that angle.>
Yes, the physical cue might have had you cut away a bit at 1:30 before he went into the tunnel,but more importantly there was not enugh info about the exit before he entered (this is one of the biggest course trends nowadays in UKI – live and die by what happens after a darned tunnel!) . So in this one, whether you kept him on your left or handled differently, be sure to give big loud cues to GO after he exits the tunnel… and he needs to see/hear the explosiveness of that cue 6 feet or so before he gets into the tunnel. You said jump right before he exited, and there are 2 jumps there š so he abstained and just ran parallel to your path.
> And yet then I got the opposite problem on the next one.>
That was at 2:20 where you needed a turn because the tunnel exit faced the backside of the next jump – it sounds like you might have said “go” before he went in. You did a decel but I don’t think he saw it in time, because it was visible right as his head was arriving at the tunnel.
This is where you can be calling his name (does he have a middle name? ROOTS STEPHEN!!) when he is still 6 feet or so before entering the tunnel. Based on how he turned here, you might even call him with 2 hands up and let him see you turn your shoulders. The name call was quiet and happened after he went in, so he read parallel line to the backside.
Start to look closely at tunnel exits because they are TRICKY on UKI courses nowadays (it was a tunnel exit that bit you on 3 of these here!) and decide what he needs to know, and how you can deliver it emphatically all while he is still 6 feet away from entering.
>Last course was the last run of the weekend and I kind of walked out, went out into the big field and had a pity party and contemplated quitting agility. >
Yeah, it is HARD when you have 95% brilliance and one d*mn thing that prevents the results on paper looking as good as the actual runs. Pity parties and cursing are fine š Based on the quality of the rest of the skills: don’t quit agility, don’t get mad or deflate in the ring, keep powering through it to keep his confidence high to execute those skills and keep going if something goes wrong. And track the errors: 75% of them here were tunnel exit cueing issues (2 of which involved layering), 25% was a missed opportunity for a brake arm. It is less overwhelming when you really only need to fix those 2 things consistently!
And the sequences/courses here, pick the ones with the most evil tunnel exits and let’s get that sussed out before the next trials, because you know the challenges will look similar to these courses.
>Simplest thing: just take the jump in front of you, itās RIGHT THERE. And we couldnāt do it.>
Yes… but also no, there were a zillion other jump options right there which is why what looks simple (darned lines after tunnel exits) were actually the most technical parts of the course! Because another jump is also right there, and the line to the backside of the jump (which would have actually been nicer course design LOL) was also right there. SO being very specific about what you want on the exit (before he enters) will make it all easier!
I think these were great runs overall and I am pretty pumped up to just fix those 2 areas! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>. His enthusiasm for toys is SHORT because he throws so much into killing them! >
Yes, it is expensive behavior to kill things š And my guess is that terrier nervous systems have evolved to do the chase/grab/kill (sympathetic nervous system) followed by rest & digest (parasympathetic), which might be why they lose steam for it quickly. It is not about value or training, necessarily, it is more about biology.
Whippets are also murderers š and my whippet worked for a toy for about 7 minutes this morning – and that is a LONG time for a whippet to work, especially in the heat (he did get breaks, I am not a mean momma LOL). And I am sure he will be in rest and digest mode for the next 8 hours, I probably won’t hear from him other than to potty til dinnertime LOL!! Terriers are more active but any murder-based nervous system is probably going to have a similar loss of motivation (rest & digest) after the initial chase/grab/kill moments.
>With a dog who DOES like toys, but sometimes gets more food focused, do you think a shaped retrieve (which is what both my Rat boys currently have, they both like toys but never really inherently liked retrieving it so getting it back required food) can have a enough of a transfer of value that it can be 1. behavior-> 2. retrieve toy-> 3. food and still be effective as a reinforcer?>
I think it can be effective because we can build behavior with it. It is also extra work – so if you are using it as a bridge while trying to build it as a motivator, don’t be too picky about the retrieve. If they don’t bring it all the way back, or there are lots of rules… then it just becomes another part of the work and not as valuable. But if they grab it and it always becomes a gateway to the food, it is more likely to become valuable.
But it also depends on the dog. in terms of how powerful a motivator/reward it will become. For example, I shaped ball retrieves for all of my dogs – they didn’t have natural ball interest and I also train flyball, so getting them excited about balls is a good thing LOL! For a couple of them, the ball is still just the gateway to getting treats so I rarely use it in training. For a couple of others, though, the ball is now definitely a top notch motivator/reward so I use it a lot!
>I also have a cue for going to play with the hose, which honestly is his true love, so I can play around with that too.>
Fun! Yes, that is something to add in for sure š
>Probably need to be careful using it with nothing else in my hands so the absence of things in my hands doesnāt set the expectation for going to the hose for reward?>
Yes – but as long as you don’t use it only when there is nothing in your hands, and you don’t use anything else when your hands are empty, then I think empty hands will not become a context cue to take off for the hose.
> Because uh, this would be inconvenient in a trial scenario where he MAY just bug off and go for the reward. I *try* to only cue him to the hose after putting his leash on to simulate trial scenarios, but that adds steps and gets annoying.>
Adding the leash is great for the trial scenario, where the hose would be pretty impossible to use for NFC anyway. At home, you can mix in the leash so that sometimes it is food, sometimes it is the toy, sometimes it is leash-then-hose, sometimes it is hose party time. Variety is good!
T
Good morning!
On the first video:
He came right out and nailed that first layer, the same one he had questions about previously! Super! He dropped the first bar on the layering on the 2nd rep – rather than stop and reward (because it creates the question of ‘did we just reward a dropped bar?’), keep going and reward a smooth part of the next section.Now that he is getting the concept of layering with the verbals, you probably don’t need to decel and send, or use much arm motion at all – you can probably just start yelling the words as you connect and keep moving š For example, at 1:53, because there was a handling section on 5-6 you were not that far ahead and didn’t have time to set up the send. You told him to go go jump so he did! He was well into the layering before you even lifted an arm up, which tells me he doesn’t need much handling help for that anymore. YAY!!!
The full sequence looked lovely – connected, smooth, and fast. And you had no trouble getting to the backside at the end. My only suggestion is that as you finish the BC 5-6, you can add a brake arm on your cues to 6 (so you are cueing it with 2 arms) at 1:49 to get a better turn. He just needs one more bit of collection there and it will be perfect.
On the 2nd video:
Sequence 6 also went really well. You handled the 7 jump from the landing side with a bind to 8, which worked – but you can get a tighter turn on 6 and then further ahead by handling it from the takeoff side by layering the send to 6 and arriving in threadle position at 7 before he takes off for 6. That will cue a tighter turn on 6 (less motion forward) and then you can send to 8 from the takeoff side of 7. That can add more challenge to the ending you ran (sending him to the other side of the tunnel like the ending of sequence 5) or you can cue the 8-9-10 line into the tnunel then flipping him away over 10 to layer the tunnel as he gets 11-12.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
It might be a bit of an optical illusion due to the camera angle and possibly the size of the wings. The white wings are really big! But the outer wing is lined up more with the inner wing of the previous jump, basically matching the map.T
Hi!
It is fun that you can set up the course and the tree provides fabulous shade!
Opening line:
He does the send to jump 1 just fine, but you can get him wilder for it but throwing rewards to it more randomly. A throw friz for jump 1 as you run away? That would be super fun, I think! That can get the same speed going to it as he gives on the bigger fun lines later in the course š>Laughing at your comment about no breathing -nothing but verbals on the layers. I was just thinking about whether I was too loud and cueing the jump too much for layers but I guess we have the answer here.>
Yes, it seems that quiet is a turn cue for him LOL! On the first run, you got quiet at :19 and he almost came off the line. Big and loud is the way to go and he doesn’t over-drive the lines when you do that.
The 4-5-6 line looked good – 7 as the backside went nicely and it also went well as a front side š You got a super nice line and turn at 1:15! At 1:32 you took him to the inside wrap at 7 so I timed the 2 ways – and even though it is possible the left turn/outside line had more yardage, it was mostly in extension so it was faster but about 3/10s on the full line than the inside wrap.
>I also wanted to test sending to the poles and he hit the 2nd opening twice when I didnāt escort him in more. (itās hard to see with the shade)>
I don’t think you need to drive all the way to the poles, but you can support the line to the poles more by facing the entry for longer without turning until he is in the poles. You can also try to layer the tunnel to get there by getting close to 7 then sending to 8 and supporting with parallel line motion.
Small detail to tighten the turn on 14: you can handle the 13 backside more like a German, with countermotion, rather than doing the BC on the landing side.
The landing side widens the line 13-14 because you are on his line and he has to go around you to get to the tunnel, and the landing side blind also makes the physical cues for the exit of 14 late. The verbal cue was really well-timed so if you are going to have acceleration forward that might override a turn cue, you can add a brake arm before he enters to ask him to turn on the exit. You can also layer the tree š Going around the tree is a big part what made you a little late for the tunnel exit – the countermotion of the German turn on 13 (where you are basically doing the blind after passing the exit wing) will make that even easier because you will be on a more direct line to 15 – you can later and turn your shoulders too.One other small detail to take out an extra stride or two: As he is exiting 15, before he even fully exits the wing wrap, you can be moving forward and cueing the backside on 16. You decelerated into a send there – the decel created too tight of a turn on 15 (1:52) so he had to go back out to find 16.
The ending line looked really good! Yay!
>OMG ā so glad to hear youāre not quite sure what she was protesting about either. Thereās just so much going on her little brain with poprocks and who knows what else.>
It is probably a combination of a LOT of things in the last 4 to 6 weeks (she has done a lot of big stuff) that pile up, plus weather, and then jumping into the nothingness just tipped her over.
The other thing I like to do with young dogs is mix up the reinforcement a lot too. In general, I have habits where I tend to stick with 2 or 3 types of food rewards, and a couple of toys, and that can lose value for young dogs pretty quickly. For my 16 month old dog, I change food rewards every couple of reps and I change toys after every rep or two. That adds a big surprise factor of rewards, which is very motivating too.
I also cycle my training – if there has been a particularly intense stretch of time focusing on one thing, then I take a couple of weeks and set that aside to focus on something else. It actually strengthens what I set aside, when I come back to it.
And it is possible the gracilis tightness on the right is making mechanics of turning right harder – she was struggling with the right turns and not the left turns.
> Kaladin has class tomorrow night and while I think thereās space for me to bring Lift, I think we do better when I only have her to focus on and am not constantly swapping dogs out to the car (so neither rehearses bad waiting (aka FOMO) behavior in a crate near the ring). >
That is a good idea! I know focusing solely on her is a great thing.
> Lift is going to continue to get a break from doing much training at Fusion for the next month or so.>
That is also good – I don’t love the footing for her (or for any of the young dogs, they are all adding strides where they don’t add them on grass or turf) plus it will be good to see if any of the tightness clears up.
>Plus, we have so much to train at home with camp, weaves, and RDW stuff and at some point I need to pause the RDW a bit (or get it to a better place) so I can switch back to the teeter. I feel like going back and forth will confuse Ms āI am very Literal and hae lots of rulesā.>
Have you tried going back and forth, with the teeter doing end games and the RDW separately? I think she will be fine with it as long as the difference is pretty clear.
>And speaking of Ms āIām judgey and I have lots of rulesā, Iāve had some interesting groups chats off and on with my 2 agility friends in Canada who have her litter mates (both boys). There are definitely some genetic (and/or early puppyhood experiences triggering genetics) that are at play with these 3. The small boy, Zeplin, seems to be more extreme than Lift in some of his ālack of pre-frontal cortexā and FOMO moments. (heās the one that will add in biting his handlerās butt with his LLF moments) Wyatt (the Kaladin-sized one) is more moderate in temperament but also still has a ways to go in āgrowing upā>
That was fun to read! And yes… there is no escaping genetics and epigenetics. Lift is doing well overall, I don’t think she is lacking anywhere. Training young dogs always has its ups and down, but she really has been mostly up up up up over the past 6 months! You would be bored if it was too easy hahahaha š
Great job here! Keep me posted!!
Tracy
Hi! I am glad Grace is feeling so much better already! Yay! And yes, Sassy can substitute at any point as Grace recovers. Her doc will tell us when she can play for real.
Have fun!
Tracy
