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Good morning! You are off to a great start – he is SO FUN!!!!
>>Lead with the Head. He’s pretty fast with his circles, should I try to slow him down? Do I need to change my placement of reward or should I be using the other hand?
You are right, he is really fast – he seems like the type that does everything fast LOL!! But his form is generally good and when he figured out the game – note how much he used his head to lead into the turns, especially on the left turns in the 2nd half of the video!
To help isolate the head turn, cue it with the hand you were using but have that hand empty (it is possible he was following the cookie and not actively turning his head) an throw the cookie with the other hand as soon as you see him turn his head. That can mark that head turn moment even more.
Moving target: possibly the easiest game Marshal has ever played? LOL! I liked the reps towards the end the best when you were trusting him more (only one cheating moment LOL!) and you were dragging the toy the whole time and released him when you were further away so he could take multiple big strides. He looked great and we will totally be using this game with the zig zags 🙂 About getting him to NOT smash his face into the ground – he might like a giant hollee roller or Jolly ball? Those are easy to scoop up on the run. Or an semi-deflated soccer ball?
Moving target with jump – also looks great, it is producing the position we want. Try to release as soon as he looks at the toy (an not up at you) to keep solidifying the form. You might be able to get him to look down at the toy by dragging it several steps before releasing – he seems to have a good stay and the dragging toy before the release should draw his focus downwards.
Platform Organizers: good boy, this was hard! Thank you for showing us his organization on the flat- he already has a tight sit on the flat but was actually having a bit of trouble on that platform. It was a little smaller so he has to sit with even more organization than he does on the flat. He offered some alternate suggestions LOL! but you did get some very nice tight sits on it. Definitely keep revisiting this this platform game because it was challenging for him and will be great for jump organization! Even as we move into the games with the plank, you can keep pulling out the platform as a game every few days.
After watching the plank video – try the next platform session with you standing and see how he does. Your standing position changes his head position (he looks further up) and that can help him organize on the platform more too!
On the plank: very nice! One thing I notice about him is that he wants to go FAST 🙂 I am sure you have noticed this too 🙂 So with that in mind, give him a couple of extra heartbeats (long enough for you to say “good” or take a breath) to organize fully… then you can deliver the reward and release into the ‘go fast’ portion of the cookie toss 🙂 You were praising/rewarding almost immediately but the extra heartbeat will help him hold tight in the position. And since he is obviously very smart, he will learn to organize faster, to get to the reinforcement faster – which will eliminate the little misses he had here. That can get him into the mode of goes fast – organize – go fast so he doesn’t end up rushing himself.
>>Getting Organized on the Move. Anything I should do differently?.>
He did really well here! At first he was surprised that you were continuing to move but by the last few reps, he had it all sorted out. So you can gradually add more of your speed, building up to you eventually running: can he organize his hind end into the sit while you run? And you can also throwing the reward back to him, to reward in the spot of the sit – I use a ‘catch’ marker which means the reward is being tossed back and the dog is allowed to move from the sit to get it.
Great job! You can definitely start the zig zag games, and I think you can add the plank to the wing as well! Looking forward to seeing more of Marshal 🙂
Tracy
Good morning! He is doing really well here!!!
The zig zags on the flat look really good with the dragging toy, he was able to shift his leads without any trouble, and at high speed. Super!!
>> I tried to make sure he kept his head down, but it seemed like it wasn’t all the way down all the time.>
His head position was good! And it was good on the next session with the MM too. He was keeping his head at or below shoulder level, and looking forward, which is exactly what we want.
He did well with the 2 jumps too. The MM here was a bit too close, he had to stop very soon after landing. So when you are using the stationary target like the MM (which he seems to love :)), you can move it to about 12 feet from the 2nd jump so he can power over jump 2, land, and take onother big stride to it.
Bearing in mind that we want to maintain form above all else, don’t add the backside sending yet. That was causing him to lose his form and add strides on most of those backside reps – to many things happenign for him to focus on fom LOL! He was at his best in terms of when you were doing front side slices (really nice, powerful form on those!!), so the next step should be using the same angle of the bars you had here and adding the moving target toy, then flattening the angles of the jump to get the bars a little straighter. When he can do it with the bars almost straight and the moving target with you also moving, then you can open up the angles again and start the backsides.
The 3rd video has the moving target on the zig zags – perfect!
>>I wanted to just compare a couple of reps using his tug toy to see if that changed his form at all compared to using the MM. Which do you think looks better?
The moving target looks great! And ultimately, the moving target will be what we use to add more speed and challenge to his form produce, but keeping focusing on form while you approach this more systematically. When using the moving target, start by leading out past the 2nd jump, put the toy on the ground, start to drag it with you walking fast (not running) – then release him. When you adding too much excitement & distraction like on the 2nd rep (releasing before you were past the 2nd jump) he lost form and dropped the bar. So you can be more chill (even if you have to fake it LOL!) because the setup is hard and the moving target adds the excitement for now, so he can focus on his form.
With this in mind, hold off on doing the backsides yet because the mechanics get off with the sending, the toy placement, and the speed – his form gets off (head coming up, bar coming down or extra strides). Keep him on the front sides with the precise line up position, adding the moving target and gently closing the angles. When we see his form percolating over the course of several sessions, you can open the angles back up and start the backsides – but with first the MM then the toy placed out ahead rather than in your hand, so he has a focal point and can keep focusing on form.
>> Should I use a combination of these in training?>>
Yes, systematically, because form is the most important thing: all new concepts on these games taught with the stationary target and you also stationary so he doesn’t have the motion distraction. And as the angles get harder, you can go back to the stationary target. When he looks powerful and organized for 2 sessions with the stationary target, you can add the moving target, starting slowly but also being sure to maintain all the other precise mechanics. So you might not end up using both of these in the same session – it is more like starting with one, and later in the progression going to the other.
Plank Organizers are also looking good! When playingwith jus tthe plank, try to keep moving slowly (an extension of the motion override) as he is getting on the plank and going into the sit, as we will be using that for the slice jumping gams. You can use the verbal and hand signal to get the sit whie you fade out the decel.
Adding the plank to the wing & jump: Also going really well! It looks like he is really using his hind end nicely to get organized for takeoff. Yay!
At this stage, you can begin to release the sit and reward after going around the wing rather than rewarding in position for the sit.
The side view was good to see, thanks for addnig that! You can move the plank a couple of inches back from the bar so that his head is not over the bar when he sits 🙂 That means his hind end in a little too close, so we can adjust the setup.
Also, since this plank position will end up being a wrap organization, keep all of your motoin on the frton side of the bar and not past the landing side (which is an extension cue) – stay tucked into takeoff side of the wing like you did on the last video. He did really well with the sit cue coming just before he got on the plank. Super!!
On that last video, you nentioned using a target to give him a focal point – I agree, that would be useful! Yoir placement was good but the target will help him predict where to look. You can put an empty food bowl on the takeoff side, near the plank, so he can be released from the sit and around the wing to the reward target. Try it first with just a wing (no bar) so that he can see the framework and if that goes well for a session, you can move it back to the low bar here.
And be sure that your wing wrap sets him up on a straight line to the plank so he doesn’t end up getting on at an angle 🙂You can also add the plank to the slice approaches, I think he is ready for that.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Adding the wing to help get the sit was clever on the Cato plank! And you can always play with a verbal discrimination of the sit versus the 2o2o if you wanted added challenge 🙂He did really well with the sits – pretty quick responses, and only a little sideways to see you around the wing LOL! He is still organizing: it takes a little reset of the back feet before he moves into the sit, kind of like a step-step-sit at the end of the board, as he is preparing to lower his hind end.
He is making good adjustments though, so my guess is that if we give him a reason to organize into the sit faster then he will organize into the sit faster 🙂 The ideal “picture” would be that he is weight shifting as he approaches the end board and tucks his rear immediately, no extra back foot steps when he reaches the end of the board.
The reason we can give him is more action, in the form of wrapping the wing rather than the cookies for the sit, so you can definitely move to that step and I bet we see faster organization 🙂
Looking at the zig zags – I agree that moving the extra support out of the way was good, and I like how he set up to approach the bar on rep 2! The rest of the reps looks good too, and I like that you added the moving target. So for the next session, start where you left off but start dragging the toy on the ground before the release. If it all goes well (and I imagine it will), you can keep flattening the angle of the jumps 🙂
Great job! Have fun!
TracyHi!
>>Most of my novice jumpers run took place after 6 pm when we had left the house at 6 a.m..
OMG that would make me want to get out of Novice asap as well! That is a LONG day!
>>Forgot to add… she was checked by a Chiro two weeks ago. She checked out pretty good.
Perfect! She drives really hard, so it is great to know she is feeling good 🙂
Looking at the tight sit – either she has a lot of floof or she is a little wide in the sit (I think it is floof, but you can also video from the front so we can see where her toes are). The side view looked good in terms of her position when she was sitting sideways… but also it was interesting that she was not coming in straight from the harder angles – aha! She was not squaring herself up, and we need her to do this as part of the jumping education. Note how she is sideways to varying degrees, a little off center. Ideally, she would be centered to the zipper on your hoodie, with her tail centered as well.
So when you do the harder angles around the clock, use a little hand cue/cookie lure to help her straighten up – this straightening up simulates how we want her to use her hind end when approaching the harder jumping lines. She is unlikely to offer straightening up at this stage, so we can totally help her out and then gradually fade the help as she gets used to adjusting her hind end.
Adding motion – this will be even easier when the step arrives. The sit verbal totally helps her, and you can also change the placement of reinforcement: rather than release forward, you can go back to her and deliver it to her mouth 🙂 Also, don’t up the ante too quickly – you went from a slow walk to a jog in one session and that caused questions, so you might need to go from slow walk to slightly faster walk LOL!
>> She was either mentally fatigued or she was just tired of playing non racing games😂. It may have been the non racing!>>
When the toy came out, there was barking in the distance so I think that was part of the distraction (more than the toy) – she got right into the sit as soon as the barking stopped. But, in case it was mental fatigue or lack of running around, you can give her run-around breaks in between reps! She will like that 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyYou can put it parallel to the plank, on the takeoff side – so as you release him to go around the wing, he wraps it and goes to the reward target without looking at you. That should help keep him straighter mainly because he won’t feel the need to watch your magical cookie hands as much LOL!
Good morning!
The zig zag session was good for figuring out what he needs to get the power in the jumping! I don’t think the distance between the bars was an issue – I think it is more about convincing him that he does indeed have the power to bounce those slices. When the angle was a little harder, he wanted to add the stride but I think we can tweak the moving target to help him feel the joy of power bouncing side to side 🙂
My favorite rep was the one that started at :11 – you put the toy down, started moving it… then released. Boom! So definitely get the toy moving for a few steps before the release. Also, you can try a slight tweak to his start position by puttig his head right next to the wing, so he is even more parallel to the first wing (just past the foot of the jump). That can help him “see” the line through the 2 jumps a little better.Adding the wing to the organizers – Really strong session here!!!
Sometimes it is hard to see where his back feet are due to floof overflow LOL! But I think he did really well getting organized here, even with the added speed. He was pretty quick about it too, and he will get quicker as we continue through the progressions.Yes, it takes them all a moment to figure out what to do around the wing when we face them, so the physical cues really helped him 🙂 Then he was happy with the concept for the rest of the session, once you showed it to him 🙂
You can add an empty food bowl target (or Manners Minder) to help get his head down as he rounds the wing – I suggest it because he was leaning to the side and kind of looking up at you when approaching the wing, so a bit more of a reward target will keep him straighter.
Give him one more session of this with the wing wrap to the plank, then around the next wing to the reward target: then move this to a jump 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
I am liking his organization here! LOTS of independent hind end use and he was quick about it too – he was immediately able to tuck his hind end under himself while moving into the sit. Yay! And he did it really well both from the various angles AND when you were moving. Super!!!
>> Definitely noticed that he needed that extra help of the sit cue BEFORE the platform.
Yes, you had plenty of good early timing of the sit verbal, so keep going with that timing. You can delay the click timing a bit more, don’t click til he is fully sitting. The clicks were sometimes early, when he was just getting on the platform or just starting to move into the sit. And since we are going to move this to the wing – you can drop the clicker entirely and just use verbal markers and releases.
One other suggestion, you might chuckle: do you have soft treats you can use, that he doesn’t have to chew? He was multi-tasking the chewing and moving into the sits LOL!!! We don’t want him to have to multi-task that so a soft, easily swallowed treat might be better 🙂
>>Still thinking this plank set up needs tweaking if I intend to use it in front of a jump. first I need to officially connect the two blocks but before I do that, is this set up even long enough for the future jump work?>>
Yes, you can duct tape them together but you might find this easier on a longer plank – I agress that this might be a little too short for his length and speed. The width looks good, so you can add a 3rd block to it if you have one, or find an aerobic step. I bought aerobic steps at local Goodwill stores for $5 or something, before I succumbed to purchasing the Cato plank 🙂
>>At the end of the video I show one rep to each side of me handling the wrap… then as I was re-reading your comments realize it was directed towards our multi-wraps not the send and go version. Oops, we can try that again tomorrow. I assume we should still be trying to isolate that head motion.>>
yes, we are trying to isolate the head motion so you can re-visit that if you like on the double wraps. But the send and go looked great and he seemed to REALLY enjoy the excitement of it all! Plus, he was turning his head beautifully.
>>Looking forward to also maybe trying the first zig zag exercise.
Yes – he is ready for that. And you can move the organizer to the wing (game 3) when you have the longer plank ready to go.
Great job here!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
The lead-with-the-head session looked really strong! The reps when he started on your left and turned to his right were all good, I think that is his stronger side no this game. The left turn reps on the other side didn’t look as fluid, so it is probably not his stronger side. You were a little earlier on the cue for the left turns – it was probably the same or similar timing as the cue for the right turn, but it takes him a fraction of a moment longer to process & coordinate the left turns. With that in mind, you can delay the cue a tiny bit (let his nose get almost all the way to your hand) then you can cue the turn.
The broad jump boards were a clever addition to help him get the sit concept!! Yay! That plus the hand cue – much better sits and no offering of other behaviors.
>.I can probably get Jim to cut me something on the table saw to use as a little bit wider platform if you think that would better than the broad jump boards, just might take a few days to get it on his “To Do” list 😉>>
For now, I think the broad jump boards will be great and Jim is off the hook (for a moment haha) – you can fade the boards by moving them further away while continuing to reward the sits on this platform. The next step after that is actually a slightly more narrow platform: Now that he has the concept of ‘get on and sit’, you can move to a more narrow platform to tighten the sit (when you move to the more narrow platform, bring the boards back in nice and close, to help refresh the concept and give him guidelines about where to put his booty 🙂 Ideally you will see him start to bring his rear legs a bit more underneath him – this will take some time, so no rush at all.
And while that is happening, you can start the zig zags!
Great job, let me know what you think!
TracyHello and welcome! The party can start for real, now that you are here 🙂 Yay!
Great job finding the pattern of the jump questions! It sounds like it is really one jumping question from her, so we can totally work on it! Is it almost always on a left turn? The video had all left turns except one right turn. The pinwheel jump is kind of halfway between a wrap and a slice, it is closer to a backside wrap in some ways – we will coverall of those so it should really help her.
The moving target video looked good! She did better when the target was in motion right after the release, as it helped her set up her collection really well on the turns!
Since that looked good – take a look at the organizers. Those will help strengthen her hind end and begin to add angles of approach – and those angles will really help the pinwheel jump! And you get to sit down the whole time LOL!!!
Also, be sure to have her checked by a massage person and chiro person, just to be sure she doesn’t have a trigger point or “out” spot that is making things harder.
Have fun! I am looking forward to seeing more!
TracyHi!
The jump proofing looked really strong -you were mainly doing late handling and calling him over the bar, which is great because he might see that at some point LOL! You can also add in disconnected or reaching for a toy in your pocket or decelerating and cheering as if it was the last jump – those are also thgs the dogs might hypothetically see 🙂 He didn’t seem distracted at all! You can revisit this game here and there, gradually raising the jump height.
Good job with refreshing the zig zags on the flat – the line up was perfect and he had no trouble with the game even when the wings were soooo close together It is funny to see how coordinated he is here in his mostly-adult body, as compared to back in the ealry stages of this game from MaxPup!
Now that the flatwork has been refreshed, onwards to the jumping games! He is definitely ready for the 2 jump game 🙂
Great job! I am looking forward to seeing how he does with the jumps added to the zig zags.
Tracy
Hi!
You were fabulously distracting here!!! And she had a really high rate of success.
>>Observations on why the bar comes down at trials.
1. Overuse of Wink’s name (OH THIS IS A BIGGIE).
2. Too big of physical cue for what was needed (you’ve witnessed this).
3. Late turn
4. Crowding the jump/in her way>>These are excellent observations – all the things we really shouldn’t do but we do anyway. Plus, based on how the sport is evolved, I think we DO need to call the dog or deliver verbals over the bar nowadays, so the dogs need to get used to that. You can also add in a little disconnection on top of it, like the cherry on a sundae haha!
>>This was a lot harder to do than I thought. I am really bad actor and I felt like I had to pull off the super bad handler. In the moment, I am sure I would win an Oscar but not here.>>
I thought you did great!!! You were pretty much nailing all the distractions LOL!
The name calling over the bar and getting in the way in session 1 was perfectly timed for all the things we are not supposed to do. Nice late FC there too haha (that was the one with the bar down) followed by a successful jumping effort on the late FC.
The 2nd and 3rd videos also looked good, with a bit of barking added in as an arousal increaser (more ideas for you on that below). I think in these 2nd and 3rd sessions she was savvy to the game, so you can leave it at one session (like the first one) then spread out the rest of the sessions on different days/locations, or add environmental distractions.
The outdoor sessions also looked good! You showed her some high quality distractions and she did really well. So now… this game can go into the rotation of maybe one session each week or two, and you can add more internal arousal (my guess is that it is harder for her to organize her jumping when she is more stimulated internally, and you are presenting distractions (although sometimes the handling is perfect and the internal arousal is what creates the challenge). And then the bar can start to come up too. Ideas for adding arousal to this game, first using the 12 inch bar you had here and all of the same distractions:
– make her wilder during the game by running with the ball you were using to get her barking, rather than leaving it off to the side
– setting her up closer to the jump, less room to organize – the level of difficulty makes it more arousing!
– add things to the environment to get her more stimulated. For example, I often have some of my dogs running around on the other side of the fence or someone holding them on leash & playing tug (I don’t ever have other dogs running loose during training sessions because of collision concerns). And if I am training alone, I play the 10 tunnel game of running the dog through the tunnel 10 times back to back to back with no reward in between til she is really wild… then do a behavior. This video has visuals of the distractions with different contexts (Voodoo as a baby dog learning the 2o2o and a stay after 10 tunnel arousal):
– fade out the food and the stay, replacing them with a bit of ready ready ready insanity at your side and then taking off and running to the jump 🙂
If she can still jumping cleanly with arousal and distractions? Yay! Then the bar can go up 🙂 There is no rush on this, because the game can be put into a training rotation of once a week or every couple of weeks, to keep the “I might be very distracting but thank you for not touching the bar” concept fresh 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>So funny story, Mochi and I both like to move fast, as it turns out. 😐 I SWEAR I thought I was going slowly yesterday and again tonight. But I watch the videos and… nope. I definitely need to slow it down, because she’s going fast enough for both of us!
Yes, welcome to Team Fake Chill hahaha you will need to pretend you are slow and basically shuffle instead of walk at first, then you can speed things up.
Looking at the organizers:
>>I think speed is causing us some challenges here too
That is exactly why we are doing this class LOL! All of the dogs in this class are VERY speedy and somewhere along the way, we neglected to mention to them that they needed to organize that hind end for takeoff, while we are going fast. Oops! So these games will help 🙂 and we do add more speed for everyone further down the progressions.
The platform is a good size for her! It might be a little slippery, so maybe add a yoga mat on top? You can be a little closer to it so she is not tempted to offer a 2o2o. The challenge here is the tightness of the sit required – the 2o2o is easier for her because she doesn’t have to be as tight LOL! So keep going with this platform 🙂 And watch the cat’s expression in the background, so much judgement LOL!
The cato plank was easier for her, because she had a little more room to pop her back feet out past the line of her front feet on some reps. Watch the first rep – her right hind is nicely lined up but looks like her left hind is a little wider. The foot position at :10 also looks goodm but she was a little sideways on the plank (might have to do with her line of approach from the side). Then on the last rep – she sits tight then adjusts to give her right hind more room. So fascinating to watch!
So the tight sits on the smaller platform will help strengthen her so she can hold herself in position, then you will see her get nice and tight on the Cato plank too.
>> I wanted to see what would happen with a wrap beforehand. You’d think I could have predicted it… But it was very hard for her to 1) stay straight and 2) stop.
Yes, but I think that will be solved with a couple more sessions on the small platform then on the Cato plank.
So for a progression in the next day or so:
using the small platform, you can sit close to it and work the tight sits, adding in the angled approaches.Then if she is all like “I got it now!!” , give her a rest day (and let latent learning kick in) and then you can move it to the cato plank. Once she has it on the plank, the wing will be easy to add in.
And on the in-between days, you can work the zig zags because those work on different things 🙂>>I suspect we’re going to have to work this for a bit because she is sooooo motion responsive>>
Yes, but it is a good thing to work on because of the conditioning elements (I use the tight sit conditioning stuff all the time, even if I am not specifically working on jumping skills) and also because of how it isolates the hind end – the goal would be that she doesn’t have to think about proper hind end use, she just does it. At this stage, she is thinking about it 🙂 but it will get easier and easier.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! I am glad you are enjoying this, I have been really enjoying watching the dogs play these games: fascinating to see what they do!!!
One thing with these games at the early stages is that these are all cued behaviors, not offered behaviors (because the dogs are not likely to offer specifically what we want and then the rate of reinforcement will be lower because we have less to reward). I find it fine to cue just about all of these skills for two reasons:
– gets the behavior a lot faster with more guidance to the dog about what we want
– we cue the behaviors on course, so we are building the response to the cue from the get-go 🙂So with the leading with the head – after sending to the upright, use a hand cue to flip him back to the upright for the 2nd wrap – that will produce the behavior to click/treat. He was offering it here, eventually, but it was happening after he looked at you, then decided to wrap again. So it is possible he was thinking: “Ok, I will wrap again” rather than “I will turn my head”. The hand cue gets the head turn isolated – and after that, you will see him begin to approach the wing on the first wrap with his head turning like it is on the 2nd wrap. It will probably take just one session to do 🙂
The sit session was really interesting: I think that he naturally wants to sit a little wide (knees and back toes outside the line of his elbows) and the platform makes that hard – so he was not sure of how to set himself up to do it. When he did get into into the sit on the flat and then on the platform, his toes were outside his elbows which is challenging to keep everything on the platform. So I don’t think he was offering because the cookies/clicker were very stimulating, I think he as offering because he didn’t know how to get his entire booty properly on the platform LOL!
He reminds me of the first time my Contraband saw this: legs everywhere! LOL! So he needed to sort out how to do the tight sit. And as soon as I helped him out with that, things moved along very quickly.
Simple solution to help: Wider platform to start with for now, an extra 2 inches, so he gets the concept of get on and sit 🙂 And, cue the behavior of the sit (reward wit his head higher, so he reaches up for the cookie a little, which helps the sit). As he gets more comfortable and stronger – you can go to the narrower plank.
Also, if you click – reward anyway even if it was not a great click – you can use reward placement to help bridge the gap on those by either rewarding up high to get him to organize better, or toss it off to the side for a reset 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Congrats on a superstar weekend with Ripley!! Did you need to rent a truck to get all those ribbons home? LOL!
This session went well! And after the goldilocks moment of trying to get the plank just right, it was really smooth sailing for him.
OMG the moment when he sat facing away from you was both adorable and hilarious! Same at 2:57 when he was in revese heel position LOL!! I would have totally rewarded that too 🙂The cheeseball magic was definitely more stimulating but also produced some *snappy* sits LOL!
Since he was able to be organized coming in from the various angles and was able to do it with you standing, you can now begin to add your motion (using the full plank) as well as a wing before the plank. My guess is this will go very well, so you will be able to add it to the wing very quickly.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
