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Hi!
The sit work is really interesting to watch her work through, I love dogs work through this – she is adjusting her hind end a lot to get into the sit platform – on the first video, there was one rep at :17 where she had her right foot off the platform and had to adjust it back on, good girl! Then at :49, her left hind was off the platform. The pace of the session slowed down a little and that helped her seem to think about it after the 1 minute mark and she had some GREAT organizations, and also some moments where she wanted the right hind out to stick out. A couple of the reps looked like her right hind was off the platform (like at 1:05 and 1:15) It is possible that the foot was not off the platform, but instead she had the leg a little looser under her so that her fluff was off the platform LOL! Either way – it is showing us where she is organizing and where she is having a harder time. .
Having the yoga mat under it on the 2nd video definitely helped – she also had some good organizing practice here, note how at :17 her left foot came off and she put it back on. Nice! This second session went overall better because she looked more centered and tight in the sit.
>>I’ve done some obedience work with Wink so she has done sit on a platform from different directions to work on a front so I adding tossing the treat in various directions. Should I be rewarding straight sits? You can see in the video, I correct her and I wasn’t sure. She was on the platform but just not straight. >>
The angles were good and lead nicely into the ‘around the clock’ version of the game. And the straight: think about it more as “tight” and not as much about “straight”. She doesn’t have to line up in front of you like an obedience front, but we do want to get her pretty tight in the sit. You were feeding her nice and high which helps! The one recommendation I have is to slow the pace of the session a bit so you don’t click as quickly – you can wait, look to see that she has aligned her back end (and give her an extra heartbeat to get her hind end aligned), then click and treat. That tiny delay will give her a moment to kind of do a self-check to make sure everything is in line, and also you won’t click simply moving into the sit – you will be clicking the tighter sit and it gives you more time to look at where she has placed her hind end.
I think that one slower-paced session like this with the yoga mat and adding those around the clock angles will be great – and if you feel she is looking ‘tight’ in the sit, you can move to the longer plank 🙂 And if you think she is not tight, or a leg is off… wait and see if she fixes it herself. And if a couple of seconds go by, you can help her with a cookie up high, or toss a cookie off to the side for a reset.
The head turning is looking good!
>>You can also see she is better at turning to the right.>>
Yes, but I think her left turns looked strong too! This is good! I use this game at the warm up jump before a run at a trial (on the wing of the warm up jump) to wake up the skill before running a course – she is good at this so you can totally add that in as part of the warm up.
You can do another session with you sitting, so the ‘turn away’ hand is lower and she doesn’t look up as high. And since she is better to the right than the left but she is pretty strong in both directions, you can alternate directions – one to the right, one to the left, one to the right, one to the left. You would just reset her at your side like you did here, but n a different side for each rep. One other tiny detail is that can send her on the first wrap, I think she was not sure that she had permission to go to the cone 🙂 You can step to it if that helps her know it is OK to go (she might be waiting for a verbal?).
On the next session, start like you did here. After a couple of good reps, take a step back so there is more room between you and the cone, do a couple more reps with that added distance. Then,if that is looking good on both sides… take another step or two back, and send her to the cone and watch for her head turn as she approaches the cone on the first rep. If she has a great zippy head turn as she approaches it? Click/treat 🙂 If not, you can cue the head turn like you were doing in the other reps. Definitely start that on the right turn, so she can get that concept before you add it to the slightly harder side.
Great job! I am excited to see her progress!
TracyHi!
The sit work is really interesting to watch her work through, I love dogs work through this – she is adjusting her hind end a lot to get into the sit platform – on the first video, there was one rep at :17 where she had her right foot off the platform and had to adjust it back on, good girl! Then at :49, her left hind was off the platform. The pace of the session slowed down a little and that helped her seem to think about it after the 1 minute mark and she had some GREAT organizations, and also some moments where she wanted the right hind out to stick out. A couple of the reps looked like her right hind was off the platform (like at 1:05 and 1:15) It is possible that the foot was not off the platform, but instead she had the leg a little looser under her so that her fluff was off the platform LOL! Either way – it is showing us where she is organizing and where she is having a harder time. .
Having the yoga mat under it on the 2nd video definitely helped – she also had some good organizing practice here, note how at :17 her left foot came off and she put it back on. Nice! This second session went overall better because she looked more centered and tight in the sit.
>>I’ve done some obedience work with Wink so she has done sit on a platform from different directions to work on a front so I adding tossing the treat in various directions. Should I be rewarding straight sits? You can see in the video, I correct her and I wasn’t sure. She was on the platform but just not straight. >>
The angles were good and lead nicely into the ‘around the clock’ version of the game. And the straight: think about it more as “tight” and not as much about “straight”. She doesn’t have to line up in front of you like an obedience front, but we do want to get her pretty tight in the sit. You were feeding her nice and high which helps! The one recommendation I have is to slow the pace of the session a bit so you don’t click as quickly – you can wait, look to see that she has aligned her back end (and give her an extra heartbeat to get her hind end aligned), then click and treat. That tiny delay will give her a moment to kind of do a self-check to make sure everything is in line, and also you won’t click simply moving into the sit – you will be clicking the tighter sit and it gives you more time to look at where she has placed her hind end.
I think that one slower-paced session like this with the yoga mat and adding those around the clock angles will be great – and if you feel she is looking ‘tight’ in the sit, you can move to the longer plank 🙂 And if you think she is not tight, or a leg is off… wait and see if she fixes it herself. And if a couple of seconds go by, you can help her with a cookie up high, or toss a cookie off to the side for a reset.
The head turning is looking good!
>>You can also see she is better at turning to the right.>>
Yes, but I think her left turns looked strong too! This is good! I use this game at the warm up jump before a run at a trial (on the wing of the warm up jump) to wake up the skill before running a course – she is good at this so you can totally add that in as part of the warm up.
You can do another session with you sitting, so the ‘turn away’ hand is lower and she doesn’t look up as high. And since she is better to the right than the left but she is pretty strong in both directions, you can alternate directions – one to the right, one to the left, one to the right, one to the left. You would just reset her at your side like you did here, but n a different side for each rep. One other tiny detail is that can send her on the first wrap, I think she was not sure that she had permission to go to the cone 🙂 You can step to it if that helps her know it is OK to go (she might be waiting for a verbal?).
On the next session, start like you did here. After a couple of good reps, take a step back so there is more room between you and the cone, do a couple more reps with that added distance. Then,if that is looking good on both sides… take another step or two back, and send her to the cone and watch for her head turn as she approaches the cone on the first rep. If she has a great zippy head turn as she approaches it? Click/treat 🙂 If not, you can cue the head turn like you were doing in the other reps. Definitely start that on the right turn, so she can get that concept before you add it to the slightly harder side.
Great job! I am excited to see her progress!
TracyHello and welcome!!!! I love her name and I love her mix – this is going to be FUN!
>>Marvelette is 26 months and latent learning is her game.
That is probably her whippet element 🙂 My BorderStaffy learned more like a terrier. My BorderWhippet, BWxPap, and now my tiny full whippet are amazing with latent learning. My BorderWhippet’s retention makes my head explode too – once he figures it out, it is cemented. So cool! Same with the BWxPap. I have barely trained her… but here she is, competing in agility and flyball.
>>She’s a hoot and is my first dog whose grasp of concepts takes a bit, but once I figure out how to explain stuff and then let it sit and stew, she totally friggin gets it.>>
It took me a minute to figure out how to work with the whippetty dogs – they thrive on clear reinforcement procedures so we can see if there is something we can do to help Marvelette in that regard.
>>I’ve been unable to get her to turn her head over a jump. I think it’s a little bit of anxiety over possibly knocking a bar. So I’m hoping this might help explain things to her. And, well, she also really enjoys NASCAR lines so…vroom vroom.>>
NASCAR lines rule! Plus, she is really young so I would rather than the go go go NASCAR approach than too much turning. But with that in mind… let’s get her head turned and hind end engaged for turning because these whippety mixes are amazing turners! She might simply not know how to organize herself to get her head turned, with all of her speed and power. Check out the head turn foundation game and let me know what she thinks of it 🙂 I am so excited to see her – the Whippet/BorderStaffy mix is high on my radar as a future puppy for me, they are such cool dogs!
Tracy
Hi!
>I am not seeing the moving target game in the Foundations section. Is it somewhere else?
It is the 2nd one in the Foundations section. Let me know if you can’t see it here:
>>And the video for the 2 jump zig zag is for the 3 jumps. It was late so I didn’t check to see if the 3 jump video was the 2 jump or if the 2 jump is just MIA.>>
That was my screw up, sorry! Fixed now 🙂
TracyHi! Great job getting the first video posted!! She definitely likes going around the cones 🙂 And this is a good improvisation since she ate the noodle 🙂 You can move it to a jump upright so she recognizes that the jump upright is part of the cue to lead with her head.
The leading with the head is very different than the H360 game, though – on the leading with the head foundation, we don’t want her to keep going around and around. You can see she was a bit confused about where to look at times here (where the reward was place and why) and what to do after the reward. So instead of around and around, reset her at your side to start each rep like you did at :13. Then send her to it but don’t click for going around it: as she comes around it, cue the little head turn away and click that moment, tossing the treat to the other side after the click for the head turn. Then, call her back to your side, reset her with a cookie facing it, and cue the next rep (so she only goes around twice before coming back to your side). You were starting to get more into the groove of resetting, sending, and clicking the head turn as isolated reps in the 2nd half of the video, so definitely keep going with that 🙂
The reason I suggest this is that by eliminating the round and round, you will get sharper behavior on the head turn because we can isolate it better – and since we can isolate it better, we will be able to fade the double wraps and move to isolating the head turn on the first approach. And it is that first approach that will make the biggest difference to the jumping skills when we add a jump to it.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Great seeing you in the zoom last night!
Some answers for you:
>>When you are doing the organizers work with the jump, are you saying “sit” each time the dog approaches the plank?>>
Yes – I was saying sit each time. You can probably hear it in the video but it is a relatively quiet word. A hand signal is fine too!
>>Does it matter whether your release out of the sit (on the plank) is a release cue (break) or a “get the cookie tossed in the dish” (eat it) cue>>
It will depend on the context – when it was just the plank, it doesn’t matter as much if you use break or get it. That will depend on where your dog naturally looks (at you, or ahead at the reward). We want them looking at the reward, so if it is out ahead, you can use your get it.
When I used the plank for wrap on the jump, I used “break” to indicate taking the jump because the reward was behind them so get it might have been confusing. On the plank with the slices, I used “get it” because the reward was ahead on the line (in a bowl) and I wanted the dogs to look down at it. The ‘get it’ there implied taking the jump on the way to it 🙂
>>Is the idea to go through all the jumping positions with the plank at a low height (I was thinking about 8in for Kaladin)
Yes, all start at a low height, maybe intro at 4 or 6 then move to 8 inches.
>>including adding the motion and then circle back at a slightly higher height for all the jumping positions. Rinse & repeat?
Yes, to an extent – maybe up to 12″ on the plank for a dog his size, then work the fading… then up to full height using the fading techniques. That iswhat I have found to be most successful for the dogs.
>>Do you wait to fade the organizer until after you’ve gone up to his regular height? (You don’t fade at a lower height and then add back in when you move up in height do you?)>>
I fade when the height is not yet all the way up (or, at least fade the sit on the organizer). Then I will use the fading ideas to build up the height – generally the sit without the organizer but also moving through the organizer has been effective.
>>And I”m assuming it’s not a problem to continue to trial during this work since you are deliberately not using your jump verbals when working with the organizer!>>
Correct! As long as you don’t use your verbal directionals and get the dog to sit… it is fine to keep training sequences, trialing, etc. There has been zero confusion from the dogs – and that is part of the reason why I help them with the sit, using the sit verbal and hand cues if needed.
>>Does it matter if you do both directions in a single session if it’s going well? (I’m assuming you may be doing 1 direction per session for clarity in the demo videos)>>
Let the dog tell you 🙂 it is possible that is it easy peasy to do both directions in one session. But it is possible that it is too hard and one direction is ready for more challenge and the other is not. For example: if the dog can wrap left at 8 inches but cannot wrap right at 8 inches, you can either work only the left, then in the next session simplify it for the right. Or, in the same session, simplify the right and make the left a little more challenging – but beware of the fatigue issue because that doesn’t help on the harder side. I only did one side for clarity, and did the other side in the next session which may or may not have made it onto the video 🙂 The zig zags are easier to work both sides because you can literally go back and forth, but be on the lookout for a strong side and a weak side so there are very few questions from the dog.
>>And don’t worry – I’m not thinking I’m going to get that far all before the Open – I just want to know where I’m headed.>>
Even if you just get through the early stages, you will see a change in the conditioning that will carry over nicely. Having done these to put on video, Contraband’s conditioning for the flyball national was really great and he posted a new personal best time… even though there is nothing specific to flyball in this class. If you try to hit on the first 2 levels of the organizers and zig zgs before the US Open, you will set him up nicely for success!
>>I think my goals for this class before the Open are:
yay goals! I love goal setting!
>>1) Foundation work (lead with head & jump distraction proofing) which can be done concurrently with Organizers Steps 1 & 2>>
Yes, sounds good – but I think you might not need jump distraction proofing a sa high priority unless you have seen something in training/trialing where he might touch a bar when there is a handler error. You might want to look at the moving target game instead, so that he can organize jumping in a more stimulated state, which is good for trials!
>>2) Start working through Organizers steps 3-7 at low height (8in). I’ll probably try a little bit of each spread out over different sessions to just touch on all the positions. Even if we don’t get too far, it’s good conditioning work>>
Sounds good!
>>3) Zig Zag work (flatwork can be done on same day as organizers, but alternating sessions with the low jump organizers)
Yes – or since he did the flat work in MaxPup, you can do a ‘refresh’ with his adult body and let that serve as a warm up for the 2 jump zig zags.
>>I’ve also got to mix in an ISC & AKC Nov trial this weekend (1 day of each), UKI (with Ashley Deacon’s courses) at the end of the month, some RDW work and a bit of crazy weave entries while making sure I don’t overwork him or stress my calf which I strained a bit 2 weeks ago when I pushed my transition to xero-drop shoes a bit too much (back to the old ones until after the Open!)>>
Busy busy!!! And don’t forget some quality rest time. You can also bring the organizer or plank on your drive to the open, as a fun way to keep his conditioning sharp and as a good warm up too!
Looking forward to seeing Kaladin work these and seeing you both at the Open.
Tracy
Welcome back!!!! I can’t believe he is almost 20 months – baby dog is growing up beautifully!! Have fun with these games!
TracyWelcome!!!! Fingers crossed for an easy winter. You can upgrade if you like, working spots are not limited 🙂
TracyHi! It will be easier to make your schedule when you see the games – the foundation games do not involve jumping so you can start those with pretty frequent sessions. And the first part of the organizers do not involve jumping, so you can do a session of those and a session of zig zags. When everything involves jumping, though, later in the class, you will want to alternate days and not double up to avoid over-jumping the dog.
Tracy
Hi!
Good work on both of these courses – I see tremendous improvements in his turns and responsiveness to the cues! Very cool!!!
Course 1 –
Looking at the opening:
You played with a BC 2-3 and also the FC 2-3. Now that he is coming on from a right turn on 1, either worked well, but both can be done closer to jump 3. Your timing was consistently good on both of them, and so was your connection. Your motion was forward towards the a-frame, so he was following that line of motion and that is why he jumped longer, even with the really good timing. You can see he is driving directly to the line you are setting, good boy!!!He had a little question about taking the bar on the 4 jump as you ran past it -so much countermotion! When you were looking at him, he wanted to follow you. But when you shifted your connection to the landing spot and supported that with you arm back? Perfect! And dropping the reward in on the landing spot really helps, a great example of the handling & rewarding was at 1:02, really lovely 🙂
The 5-6-7-8 looked good each time! And letting him go straight on the DW til it can be braced more is a good idea.
Looking at the section after the DW:
The 9-10 blind is really strong! Looking at the exit of jump 10, where he was landing wide looking to the line nearer the a-frame… I think, for him, decel alone is not enough turn info. For example at 2:16, you did a decel and turned, but the post turn still showed the line he landed looking at. So, a spin or ‘flind’ (front/blind) might be perfect: as he is landing from 9, you can decel and rotate into a FC to cue 10 then begin moving to 11; When you see collection for 10, finish the move with the blind to put him back on your left side. That might provide the best turn info in that section.The teeter angle was a little off on the first run but it was perfect for the rest, and he was really showing some strong teeter independence on this course and on the next one too! Yay!!! He was looking at *something* past the teeter on the way to it a couple of times LOL! but his end position was great.
On the jump after the teeter, the FC to RC on 13 works and you can also do a serp on the landing side. For the FC, stay close to the jump, that is when he was most successful. When you were further from 13 and had to move towards it, the cue was not as clear (like at 1:59) when he dropped the bar trying to adjust for the RC.
The layering element looked great each time: fast and independent! YES!
On 17, the blind cross after the threadle wrap was REALLY nice at 2:06 and 2:26!!! And with such independent layering, I bet you can get to a blind on the tunnel exit to push to the backside of the 17 jump – the serp on 13 would be best for that because it puts you closer to 17 and you can send to the 14 tunnel and leave immediately for the blind. Either way, the layering independence sets up a really strong ending line!
Course 2
Really good openings here, with the BC and the FC elements – I think maybe you tried the FC to see if it would be tighter, but I think the line of motion was what was widening his line a bit 2-3: from the entry wing of 2, run more towards 3 and less across the bar of 2 for a better line each time. The BC is probably easiest to get that done.The 4-5-6-7 line looked fabulous, he is the Layering King! Fun!
One thing that was happening on this course was a bit of crowding the backside approaches 🙂 You were pushing him off the line a bit, so he had some questions. One example is at jump 8 after the layering:
You can see the crowding at :14, where you are running on a parallel line past the wing, so he was like: “do I cut in front and take it? or run past it?”
And when you held back a little at :29 and 1:05 then drove forward he was still a little unclear.So, ideally you would be running a line that shows the entry wing a lot more: for a wrap, the line is to where the wing meets the bar, and to a slice, it would be center of the bar (unless you are doing a takeoff side slicing RC, then you would go to where the wing and the bar meet). And if you get there early? Stay there til he is past you and turning to look at the bar.
The 8 jump would set up a better line as a slice there, but you got the wraps. I think that is what you wanted, but it was hard to tell 🙂 You can get the slice pretty without crowding the entry but sending him on the 5-6-7 line and layering the 18 jump to do the backside push from waaaay far away from the entry wing of 8. Then a German (serp/blind) on 8. You can also get that without layering the 18 jump.
More really good distance on the teeter here!! Just be sure he is not releasing on the ‘good’, I think there was a moment or two of that :
He had some questions on the 11-12 line, and it was similar to his question on 8 – as you left 11, you were moving forward and crowding the line to 12 so he didn’t quite know where to be at 1:35, for example (watch his head looking back and forth LOL!!
So to get the line to 12, leave 11 sooner and run to where the wing and bar meet on the landing side, so he has a full visual line to the wing – and hold that position til he is past you. And to get the tight wrap on 12 instead of the slice at 1:52 – rotate your feet as he is passing you (kind of like what you did at 1:12, but with less twist of the upper body). He sliced at 1:52 because you were facing the a-frame til he took off. You were earlier with the foot rotation at 2:51 and he read the wrap a lot better! Yay! So add in that rotation timing with showing him the full line to the backside and it will be perfect.
The RC on 13 worked well because he is so good at layering – a FC on the 12 exit would get you even further ahead. You got to a threadle/throwback on 16 (he was BEAUTIFUL with his turns there) but it sets up a really hard DW entry. Wrapping 16 to set the straight line to the DW entry is more ideal: with his layering confidence, you can easily get to the threadle wrap (to his right) or you can probably also get to a BC on the tunnel exit of 15 and do a push wrap on 16.
Great job on these! I think the last several weeks have shown some really significant improvements in how well he is responding to your cues and driving his lines – such a good balance!!! Super!!!!
TracyGood morning!
I am so glad you took this class! You did an amazing job working through everything and and embracing the challenges. It was an absolute pleasure to watch you all summer!!!
>> I had dreams of making it to national events and being very competitive,
You are well on your way! I am looking forward to cheering for you and Nox!!
>>When I got Nox, I thought we were going to do amazing things
You ARE going to do amazing things! Exciting times ahead!
>>The saying, “You don’t know what you don’t know,” really resonates with me right now>>
Yes, so true!! After all of these years, the one thing that I know is that there is so much more I need to learn. LOL!!! The learning is endless and the sport keeps evolving, which is what makes it so fun.
I am so glad you are excited for the future, both as an instructor and as a competitor. The sport of agility needs you in both capacities! Your passion to learn and teach and compete is exactly what continues to drive this sport forward <3
I am looking forward to seeing you in person some time soon!!!!
Tracy
