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Hi! Sorry for the delay, had to drive to Ohio this morning. Fun times – not! LOL!
>>so I really need to think about speed he’s going and how much distance he needs to process the decel cue so that he’s able to respond and adjust striding before takeoff…..and that could well be before landing of the jump before the turning jump? And a verbal could definitely be helpful here!>>
Yes, a verbal is definitely helpful! But I don’t think you need the turn info earlier than over-the-jump-before-the-turning-jump. If he sees it in progress when he lands, and if you trust his commitment to cue and turn to the next line, he should be fine with that timing even on shorter distances of 15-18 feet.
This is a fun variation adding in the tunnel!
>>I tried to count strides from tunnel to backside. Should do it fro wrap jump to end.>>
I counted strides 🙂 He is taking the same number of strides, but they are longer strides (followed by a better collection stride) when you handle more aggressively 🙂 Yay! When you are not as aggressive with your speed, he takes medium-length strides that don’t cover as much ground as the others.
He did well here on this sequence. Since we were talking about timing and the WOO – for the wrap turns, you can give info sooner:
As he is landing from the 2nd jump (red jump in the middle here) – you can be decelerating already. When he lands, take another decelerated step or two with the wrap verbal but then as he is passing you – rotate and get outta there 🙂At :07 and :18 you were still facing the wrap jump as he took off (he ticked the bar at :18). At :38, you were partially rotated and that definitely contributed to it being the fastest time (the earlier rotation definitely produced a better turn!). I think by the time he is over the bar, you can be fully finished with the FC and heading to the next jump 🙂 That plus the more aggressive handling should be the fastest yet! I believe he has the commitment understanding to let you cue, turn, and leave 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
That environment does sound really challenging! Those are skills that are certainly in her toolbox but the environment PLUS heat really ramps it up. I am sure she will sort it out!
>>So, on the video you said not to reward if they aren’t collecting.
Correct – that first rep on the beginning of the video was not really rewardable 🙂 But the rest were, based on where she put herself over the bar.
>>If she turns at all do you want me to start moving regardless of where she takes off?
Yes – make your decisions based on where she is on the bar and where she is looking. So if she is center of the bar and looking straight while jumping/landing? Nope, no reward LOL! But she only did that once, on the first rep. On the others, she was on the turn side of the bar and her head was turned, so those were all good to reward. Takeoff spot is subjective in many ways, because where we *think* they should take off versus where the best spot for each individual should take off can vary. We want her relatively close to the bar, on the part of the bar closer to the exit wing, and her head turned. She was checking those boxes, so it is all rewardable. If we try to control the turn too much, she might slow down too much (or get frustrated and launch).
>> I was VERY pleased that she could easily send the 16-18 ft. I didn’t use verbals at all in this session to see if my position held any meaning to her. I can probably do a two jump exercise in the backyard. >>
I thought she did a great job! She is working to balance turning with speed & power: PERFECT!!! Exactly what we want.
>>But, no shaky shaky hand, correct? I should just be standing still?
Correct 🙂 No additional help other than “hey, I have decelerated”. Decel is probably the weakest turn cue for most of our dogs at this stage, which is why we are isolating it to layer in some value for it. When we add back all the other cues (verbals, transition, rotation, maybe a little shaky shaky hand lol) the turns will look amazing 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
Since you have tunnels available, you can skip the wing wrap start and use a tunnel instead 🙂
Totally makes sense about the front crosses!!! The blinds can be done a little sooner to take out any off course lines. And as you mentioned, she has been really good with her commitments so I’m betting she will be perfect with earlier cues 🙂
TracyPoor girlie, I hope she feels better!! It looks like she took a funny step and hit the wing on the backside in the 2nd rep, so maybe she just has a little bruise or something.
On the 3 backsides here – it is good to practice the threadle wrap, she did well with it!!! You can slow down your movement to help her get more collection – things were moving fast so she was a little wider.
On the 2nd backside, pushing to the slice there worked great and is definitely faster than the threadle wrap. You held position too long there (maybe because there is no place to run to with the layering coming up), so you might not need to send to the backside from as far away so you can stay in motion the whole time.
The 3rd backside looked great, you kept moving and she jumped it really well!The layering with the DW there is harder – she can still see your motion and respond to it, so as she builds confidence on working that far away, be sure to keep your shoulders open to her and keep running. On the first two reps, you turned your shoulders a little and decelerate, so she came off the line. The 3rd one was perfect! You won’t always need to be as perfect, she will get really confident with this skill and then the physical cues become less important 🙂
Great job here!! Keep me posted about how she is feeling!
TracyAwesome! This one looked great!!! You were more in tune with his position and his timing needs than you were in the walk through, so now I am REALLY liking the reverse walk through idea LOL!! That should give you a feel of the speed, timing and connection. This run had a lot of hustle and connection. And when he landed from 2, you were already cuing the wrap, so he turned beautifully. YAY!
OK then, reverse walk throughs it is! Let me know how it goes!
TracyHi! So much great stuff here! Working it like 3 mini courses set her up for a lot of success 🙂 Yay!
Section 1:
I agree, doing 1 a a throw back was just a bit too tight for her (more than needed), you can send forward to get a better line to 2 if you set her up on a pretty severe slice facing 2 and not the dog walk. On her off course dog walk, she was set up facing it directly and it is a super high value obstacle 🙂
When you did set her up on more of a slice (like a 1:30), she did really well!
She read the dog walk layering here (and later in the course too) like she has been doing it her whole life LOL! To get the backside at 8, don’t call her out of the tunnel, it presents the front side too much. You can tell her the backside verbal and support the line by running to the center of the bar of 8 (which will make it easier for you to get past the exit wing).
About that off course a-frame moment: at 1:44 you did say go… and she was looking straight at the a-frame, so that is where she went LOL! She is very literal and actually correct there. My dog Voodoo taught me to always be sure the dog was looking in the right direction before I yelled GO!
2nd section:
I see what you mean about the teeter: she was having a little trouble with the lateral motion of your running line while she is on the teeter, plus I think you need to sandbag the base because it was bouncing a lot under her (could be scary if it bounces a lot).
That 12 jump is harder for sure! I think you were blocking it on the first rep, and your line on the 2nd rep was better but your arm came forward & you disconnected, so she took the wrong side. So keep the connection of the 1st rep and the line of the 2nd rep and it will be perfect.
She loved the tunnel-jump-tunnel layer moment, wow! SO FAST! OMG!!!!!
3rd section – Holy wow, really nice! You made it look easy and smooth. I am so excited about that!!!!
Great job here!!!!! The next step would be to see if you can string together sections 1 and 2 🙂
See ya in the live class! Rear cross time!
TracyHi!
>>He has a verbal cue to get the toy, however he won’t not get the toy if it is on his line. I can place a toy and he will leave it there until it is right in front of him.>>
We don’t want to frustrate him by calling him off of placed toys, so you can place it past the next jump and have a reward with you when you want him to turn and NOT take that jump. If it is too hard for him to ignore the placed toy, though, no need to do it.
>> A few weeks ago, I worked weaves straight out of a tunnel after he had trouble with that in a trial. I had a tunnel and just 4 poles. He understood and was able to perform the task as an individual exercise. I did not need to help him, and I could be in different positions and moving.
This is good! You can add more speed to that by having him do the tunnel 3 or 4 times before you ask for the weaves. And you can use 4 poles on the bigger courses too, to help solidify the understanding.
>>He has played the wing vs tunnel game but we can definitely revisit that. Tunnels are his fave.>>
Definitely! There might be a value shift towards the tunnels now that tunnels are SO FUN 🙂
>>I have a really difficult time figuring out timing with him. Most of the time it seems like he needs to know what’s happening on an obstacle even before the previous obstacle. Then sometimes he will also randomly pull off something I thought he was going to.
I think that is pretty normal with young dogs – plus the Covid lockdowns didn’t exactly help us get them on bigger courses 🙂 Think of it as shaping your way to the turns you want. 2 jumps in advance is fine for maybe beginning to show the positional cue, but you don’t need to start decel or verbals that far back. Start the turn at the right time (the WOO of the previous obstacle) and reward roughly right approximations of the answers. Don’t wait for perfect turns, because he is young, fast & powerful – instead, reward turns that are roughly fine, and reward them with an eye on placement of reinforcement and style: chasing you to the next line. Don’t stop him for a reward (that’s a yawner LOL!) Dogs are efficient creatures: if a cue means that you and the toy will be going high speed in the other direction, he is going to learn to make the adjustment so he can go high speed in that direction too!
>>Every so often we seem to figure it out at the same time and it feels amazing to run with him but I can’t seem to replicate that on a regular basis.
Yes! That is completely normal with a young fast dog. It will come together!
>>
How do I work on the turns and make sure he can be successful?>>>> I also think it is hard for him and he keeps wanting to turn after landing from a jump. He can set himself up for a nice turn before jumping on an individual jump even with some motion in, but coming from another obstacle he doesn’t seem to do that.
That is a great starting point. Take what he is offering and the reinforcement will move the needle in the right direction to get the turns where you want them to be.
>> I’m not really sure I can tell the difference right now on whether my timing caused him to not turn or if he just chose not to turn because he almost never turns tightly within a sequence.
Or he might not know how to turn at that speed. Or all of the above! But… It doesn’t matter about ‘why’. Reward those successive approximations with clear, consistent, fun placement, otherwise you will be paralyzed by over-analyzing 🙂 And video everything so you can analyze your timing.
>> Also, if he doesn’t turn how I was hoping but I assume it was my handling (which is likely) and reward him anyway, then I feel like I’m rewarding him for not responding to his turn cue. However, I don’t want to diminish his speed and joy.>>
Correct, reward anyway, doesn’t matter why it happened. If you withhold reward for not responding, he is less likely to turn tight and more likely to ‘ping’ away on lines. So shape your way there: if it is roughly correct-ish, for now, reward reward reward but in the very specific style that will help him learn that the cue means the reward will be located in a certain location.
On the video – One thing I notice about this session is all the toys are either placed or dropped… so not moving. And you are not moving. Let’s change that. He LOVES moving (does not love stopping so much) so we can get the reward moving and you are going to see a world of difference. When he gives you a turn of some sort (remember, successive approximations) use your “get the toy in hand” marker then run away making fun noises so he can chase you.
And that way, he will get used to you running because on the big courses, you will be running. And then he will scope the line you are running and set himself up to chase it.
It looks like this, but I use “bite” now to cue the toy then the silly noises:
That will also build value for driving into you, because that is where he had the hardest time with sorting out the turns – like in the opening on the 4-5 line, he was scoping for obstacles and not driving at you. So that is a great opportunity to get a turn then run away like a crazy person to reward him LOL
The cue timing was generally good here, so keep working that but more importantly – emphasize forcing the turn less on takeoff side. Forcing the turn and then dropping the reward is probably just not that reinforcing. Work on that “here is the turn, I am outta here” and let him set himself up. It won’t happen in just a session or two, but with consistency you will see him setting up the turns really well while you run. You can see i happening on the tunnel threadles, where he knows he can keep running and scoping the lines, those looked great!
Let me know what you think! The handling ideas and timing are good here- but the main thing is going to be having you attack the courses while running, and choosing reward spots in advance to be able to cue and leave and reward 🙂
Tracy
Hi there! So glad things have cooled down for you!!!
These sequences went well, they are fun!! Try to reward errors because 99.9% of the time on this stuff it is human error – like on the first rep where you were presenting the line to the tunnel by blocking the backside wing, and on the first run with more motion too. Even with the correct verbal, she is not likely to go in front of behind you to get to the backside and that is safer for you LOL!
On the reps where she got the backside, she was seeing the clear backside line (the wing was visible) and shoulder turn to take it. Super!!!! When she was approaching that backside, to get the turn away to the tunnel over the backside jump – start those turn away cues before she takes off for the jump so she can land turned. You were starting them on landing, so she was watching you for info and either went wide or hit the wing. You can decelerate near the exit wing and use your upper body to flip her away to the tunnel.
The circle wrap backside looked great She saw the line each time on those, good job!!! What is your verbal? I think I heard push then dig – if push is for the slice, is dig for the circle? I definitely vote for different verbals because they are different behaviors.
Last sequence:
>> But now that I’m looking at the video I did it totally wrong.
Ha! No worries, your version was hard too – the other side just gives you a countermotion opportunity 🙂
Finding that backside after the tunnel went really well, and the threadle position is definitely something we are seeing on course a lot lately. I heard the left left verbal but you can use a threadle verbal after she exits the tunnel to help get the correct side of the jump. You might have been saying something there that the camera didn’t pick up 🙂
When she came in with more speed from the jumps before the tunnel, it helped when you moved away sooner on the last rep (staying there as she was taking off caused her to hit the wing on the 2nd or last rep).
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> when you say I am too far or too deep into the box. Does these mean I am ending up more in the center of the box that is formed by the four jumps?>>
Yes, that is correct. You were ending up on the line the dogs would need to run, so they would be on the outside of that line which places the off course jump on their path.
Yes, that line is definitely looking better 4-5, you gave entry of room 🙂 And the FC a 6 looked good too!
Try not to give a big swoosh forward with your hand to commit the dogs as that cue turn your shoulders away from the jump if the timing is not spot on. The pool noodle helps keep your shoulders open, but I bet you will get more flow in the walk though and less swooshing forward of your arms if you walked it with a an open bottle of water in each hand (small bottle :))
Let me know how it goes with the water bottle and the dogs. Have fun!
TracyHi!
She is doing well with her foot targeting! She definitely has lots of value and was happy to move away from you on the banana line 🙂I think she is having trouble differentiating the target from the ground here, mainly because the target is a little smaller for her stride right now – she is getting the first back foot on easily but that 2nd back foot is not hitting as clearly. You can make the target a little longer and even elevate it a tiny bit (attach it securely to a piece of wood so it is maybe and inch or two tall). That way you can make the 2nd back foot – most of the rewards had a clear back foot in and the 2nd back foot carried over the target. I like to stare tat the target til I see the 2nd back foot hit it, then reward. And the slightly bigger target will set her up for success.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Blocking the end of the teeter is a good idea as soon as the youngsters have value for it 🙂 Don’t let her start it without you, it is a by-permission-only obstacle LOL!
She definitely was loving the squeeze cheese, no problem convincing her to run up the teeter board! Yay!
No need to combine the 2 games – the angles can be for a lower more stable board, and the mountain climbers with the teeter can be used to get speed with straight entries, and work on things like you moving alongside, getting more speed, Changtse holding position while you walk past, etc. and the dismount so she doesn’t fall. Puppies make poor choices with things like hopping off, so be sure to help her 🙂 I am glad she got back on so easily 🙂
Nice work!
TracyHi!
Course 2: I think you were feeling the increase in speed because your handling required a lot more running 🙂 There were some discombobulation moments early in the video with your arms flying around LOL! But in general, this went really well: her increase commitment allows you to get to more places with good timing, so you were able to work a lot of skills.
Also, you did a great job of powering through the lines with low arms and good connection!!
Mostly small details/ideas for you:
Give her more room on the first jump, at least 3 or 4 meters, She needs to be set up a lot further from jump 1 so she can get over it, especially with you that close (she dropped it the first time and was careful about it the second time).One other small detail: save the go for true go lines – you were mostly good about using directionals but there were some moments of go go go right on the lines – using ‘right’ is plenty there because we don’t want to dilute the go (which means straight and we don’t want her asking if it will be followed by a turn).
She really smoked you at 2:09 and at 3:28! Don’t decel on those lines, race her out to see if you can get to the reward first 🙂 And she did well with the tunnel discriminations, but she was totally expecting them and not driving forward as much (there was a lot of repetition in that section). So, instead of doing the reps the same way, mix it up more: some threadles, some go straight to the tunnel in front of her, and some getting in there for blinds (she will like the acceleration and sheer panic of those LOL!)
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>River has enjoyed these GO drills so much, she won’t hold her station behaviour anymore and creeps slowly forward to join me on the field, so that has been nice to see. She wants to keep playing.>>
Ha! Yes, I can see she is liking the big fast lines and LOTS of rewards! There were some bars down due to reward throws and one bar down because you set her up too close to jump 1 (course 2) but otherwise she is jumping with a lot of power here!
Nice go and reward in the opening! And after the tunnel! I like the threadle opening on rep 1 more than the FFC because it gets you moving sooner.
One idea for the continued go training: After saying go and seeing the thrown reward, you can take things up a notch by racing her to the reward and try to get there first! If you win, you party with it. That will get even more go go go go 🙂 And also it will prevent you from decelerating by accident on those lines.
I am super happy with the acceleration at 1:12! and at 1:33! She was watching the turn cues before those lines, and then it is like she turned on rocket burners when she heard the Go verbal 🙂 Perfect!
Onwards to course 2!
TracyHi! Glad you liked them and you definitely had a lot of good stuff going on 🙂
First video (marked jumpers 1 but it is jumpers 2)
One general thing for both courses – tell her how to exit all tunnels before she enters them, when she is still about 4 or 5 feet from the entry. You tend to get quiet after the tunnel cue and tell her what you want when she exits: so if she can’t see you, she has questions about the next line. So plan your exit cues for every tunnel 🙂
Try to layer the 3-4-5 line so you can get right to 6-7 to get her to turn – you didn’t tell her to turn other than a name call as she was over 6 and a fast blind so she stayed on her line. Try cues started when she lands from 5 – a left verbal and decel and an earlier blind
you did a decelerated send/FC to get her to take it, but the layering can make it all much easier from the get-go 🙂At :58 on jump 16, you got the Rear cross:
>>I tried a spin but she read it as a rc. I get that a lot so rarely do them.
I think a transition from acceleration to deceleration then a foot rotation before she passes you will fix that. You accelerated with your feet facing the RC line then cut in behind her, so it totally did look like a RC. As she is taking off for 15, shift into a decel and turn and face the wrap wing. Then after you decel, you can turn your feet so she is passing your rotated feet near the wrap wing (the toilet turn LOL)
You did the decel and faced the wing more at 1:14, so she knew it was a left turn! Just add the foot rotation after that so you will be able to incorporate the spin too to get the backside of 17
2nd video, jumpers 1 (marked jumpers 1)
Nice opening line and good verbal timing for the first tunnel – it was a really forceful verbal, though, so it might have propelled her straight more than convinced her to turn? Also, you were late on the BC so she was wide on the exit
You got a bit quiet at :16 for the 7 tunnel so she curled into you – and on the go cue, your shoulder turned to the red tunnel so she had a question It might be an ‘out’ cueto get 8 more than a Go because there is a lead change away from you involved with getting the jump.
Nice blind to the threadle! It was alsmost perfect – to get her to take the 11 jump, move to the bar on the threadle rather than run away from it towards 12. The German is actually harder, because you have to be more lateral like you were on the last rep – the blind to threadle is easier to get to for sure.
Nice rotation on the jump after the weaves, and nice patience to wait til she committed to take it! And remember to call her before she goes into tunnel 17 at the end, so she comes out turned and ready for tunnel 17 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
