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Hi!
Poor Taq! I hope she is feeling better!!!The sequences went well!
The bonus tunnel at the beginning of the video was an example of ‘backwards and sideways motion are the same as forward motion’. You were moving towards the tunnel even though you were kind of moving sideways/backwards, so she took the tunnel 🙂
Getting closer and being fully rotated without backup up or moving sideways helped at :28. (On the pop out 1 section later in the video, you did a FC on the jump right before a tunnel and moved forward out of it and she did not consider the tunnel :))
The rest is looking really strong! And you were using your verbals! Question:
What does back mean versus slice? You used back for most of your backside slices and slice for the one that was the serpiest…. You might not need two verbals because the behavior is pretty similar. It sounds like push is your threadle wrap verbal – those all went really well!Second sequence:
On the 1-2 line, you can support the backside of 2 for one or two more steps before you turn. When she landed from 1 at :58, you said it once and then turned away. So she almost went to it but then your physical cue overrode the verbal so she came off the line. When you did it at 1:05, you can say it 2 or 3 times and took a few more steps parallel to her line before peeling away, and she committed really well! At 1:29, you did it more as a send where you were more stationary – she was not as sure about it as he was at 1:05 when you were moving.Nice tunnel send and super nice threadle wrap on 5!
You took a harder path on 6 as the backside and she dropped the bar there but that might be where you forgot the course for a moment. On the last rep, you ran it as a front side there and the wraps on 7 and 8 were gorgeous! YAY!!!Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>Even with a wing stuck in the tiny tunnel, the silly boy took it a time or two. >
That was pretty hilarious! He was COMMITTED 🙂
Also hilarious was the ‘let me make sure it is running’ video check which I also do about 1000 times when training 🙂 When it is a million degrees out, we only have a few minutes so the camera needs to be running LOL
>I really like this setup as a way to build up to ASCA gambles so while we are going to move to some pop outs for a few days, I am planning to revisit with weaves or a jump where the tunnel is. So often I need the dog to stay on the line and not take the jump near me for gambles. >
Totally agree! This skill works for gamble challenges (ASCA, USDAA, some UKI, AKC FAST) and is super useful for general course design nowadays.
On the video – throwing the toy is definitely helping! He was looking for the lines a lot better! Great job! To build the distance with the layering, the best toy placement is actually after 3 (first jump in the layering section). That will get him wanting to be out there, which makes 4 much easier (and doesn’t ask him to do much to find 4 so he doesn’t overthink it or drop the bar).
Now the next step in toy throwing is to throw it as far from you as possible 🙂 If he is layering? Get it to be on the same side of the layered obstacle he is on, and on the other side from you 🙂
At 2:54 he took the tunnel: the voice said “go” which could apply to the jump or tunnel, and the body as fully turned to the tunnel when he landed so he took the tunnel. Compare to the next rep at 3:04 where you had more acceleration and were facing the 3 jump, so he took the jump. YAY! You can totally throw the reward between 3 and 4 for that! He was not as sure about finding 4 (partially because you were pulling away to get around the tunnel) so throwing the reward after 3 will help him stay on the line no matter what you do 🙂
He got a little frustrated and froze at 3:11, probably because he had just put in a big effort on 2 reps and was told he was wrong on both (even though he was following physical cues) – so throwing the toy when he goes and gets 3 will be super helpful with that too.
Using the ‘go jump’ veals at 3:30 plus the parallel path motion really helped him find that line! Super!
>Any observations on Ven’s jumping here?>
Considering the distance challenge her needed to process and the tighter space, I think he did well! The 2 bars he dropped were on sequence 2, and that was just because he needed more momentum into the sequence on those reps. He did drop the last bar at the very end, but that was when you stopped moving and dropped the toy really close to the bar, so keep moving and throw it far far from you.
Nice work here!! Stay cool!!
Tracy
Hi!
Kaladin did really well with the bigger distances!
He had one question at :10 with your arm up high in giraffe-feeding position 🙂 which blocked connection and he was not sure about the line.Sequence 2 also went well. You can tell him the go go go for 5-6 sooner so you can then be in threadle position sooner – as he landed from 6 at :37 he was looking around a bit because you were not yet showing/saying threadle. Ideally, he would see you already rotated and facing him in threadle position and hearing the threadle verbal, as he was taking off for 6 🙂
The RC looked good before the layering – this is a spot you can add a turn-away-and-go-layer verbal! That will get a lot of automatic drive out of the RC if you wanted layering and it will maintain the wrap for when you want a wrap back to the tunnel, for example.
I don’t think you can get quiet with him on layering lines – you dared to maybe take a breath haha at 1:03 and got quiet, so he almost came off the line. Compare to 1:17 where you were repeating the cues and he had no question there. No breathing allowed, only yelling of verbals 🙂
You can also surprise him more frequently by throwing rewards right into the middle of the layering lines – that way he will pay a little less attention to your arms or breathing, and stay on the line more easily.
>Had some issues with the end of sequence 5 where he went around jump 11 – I think I was rotating to the right arm for 12 too early.>
Watching that section: he was accelerating through the layering (yay!) and saw the turn cues at 1:30 but based on your line of motion, he read it as a parallel path backside line at 1:32. To get to the blind on the takeoff side, you inadvertently put pressure on his line, which is why he was pretty convinced it was a backside.
And I agree with your assessment that you were early with the BC on the first 2 reps there, so he also went out a little further to see your connection. You were later with it (but not late :)) and you stopped moving, so he found the front at 2:05. Yay! You can get to the front without pushing on his line and without stopping by sending to the layering element before it, from further back so you don’t get up near the tunnel at all. that way when he is finishing the layering, you are already turned and heading to the backside rather than converging into the line to get past the backside wing.
Lift’s video:
She likes that opening line, she really drove out to 3!!
Good reward throw at the beginning! She almost took 4 (bailed at the last minute, jumping towards nothingness might be weird for her) but you still rewarded out past it which is good 🙂> that she still had some LLF moments.>
Yes, she was having a BIG MAD about something here! She was REALLY telling you. What she was saying? I am not entirely sure LOL Was it that she didn’t like the closed shoulder at :52 to send her to 2? Or was it jumping into nothingness (weird visual)? Or turning to her right? Turning to her left on the other line was fine, and she was not mad at the end when you did the other layered line (which is also easier to see).
> I am wondering if the recent weather is a factor. In the last week we’ve had several downpours and then the air pressure got weird again yesterday and we had some pretty bad thunderstorms overnight which kept waking all of us up. Tari was very sensitive to air pressure changes and I’m wondering if Lift has a touch of that too. Tari used to be clingy when the pressure dropped in advance of a storm. Lift doesn’t get clingy but I feel like she has been more on edge. had less impulse control in everyday life, and had less resilience in training.>
Yes, these can all play a role – it generally all piles up, and then we get the BIG MAD when they are asked to jump towards a shed LOL!! So if it happens, especially when you don’t know why, having her do some treat sniffing and pattern games helps a lot, and you can place the toy out ahead to help with the visual to get her over the jump. And switching gears to go back to the other section was great! She finished really strong there.
And there might be things to help with the other factors… more rest, more decompression, etc when the weather is crappy! This can be especially important if sleep is interrupted – studies are showing that animals are affected by poor sleep too and it manifests with similar issues as humans: less resilience, less impulse control, etc.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
> This guy really does try so hard! I hope we can work through some of his focus issues in competition rings and be able to trial because he really is so cool!>
I am glad you are working him – I agree, he is SO COOL and has a lot of talent!
>I’m “slapping on” the “jump” and “hup” verbals here (and even snuck some “ski’s”). Way easier with the 8” dog (he actually measured into 12” for UKI, he’s a flat 15” tall, so we train at 8” and have started doing some NFC at 8” select) and while he’s not exactly running slow, he’s still got the little dog strides to let my brain think of the right words.>
Yay! Yes, there is more time with more strides. And also there is probably less of your brain bandwidth needed to run him than when you run Beat – there is a lot involved with running the baby dogs and a lot of brain bandwidth devoted to it! So it makes sense that the verbals are easier with Pick for a number of reasons. And great rehearsal for running Beat!
He did well with the pop outs!!!
The first one went well. He read 1-2 really well then had a small question on 3-4 section (the send to the jump and tunnel). He got hoppy, changing his striding to go more upwards then outwards to the line. He is probably not super experienced with this type of tunnel send and needed to hash it out (which he did, good boy!)
>I got in his way and pushed too hard to get 6 and sent him to the backside there.
You had a really nice backside send then FC on the 4-5-6 line at :13-:14! I think you were connected but overhelping 🙂 by staying there to push to the next jump, which is why you ended up on his line. The overhelping my have also been a moment of ‘what is the word’ hesitation, as you mentioned.
You moved through it really well the next time and got the front with no trouble and also a really nice brake arm at 6 to get the turn!
Your FC rotation was a little late at 7 so he was wide then at :37 thought he was getting the toy 🙂 You can totally run empty handed (toy stuffed in a pocket somewhere) so it is one less thing to worry about as you run (you switch it from hand to hand in a lot of places, which requires your brain to devote bandwidth to that) plus it builds in the visual of doing agility with empty hands (useful for trialing!) . Sequence work generally does not require precision rewards, so you can whip it out at the end. If you need to throw it somewhere on time, you can have it in your hand to throw.2nd run was great!! You kept moving, have the verbals going, brake arms as needed, the rotation on 7 was great, and the 2-handed send to 8 to get collection before the tunnel was GREAT. All the things came together really well!
The toy play at the end of the first part of the session was great. He didn’t play as much at the end of the 2nd run – but he looked HOT so cool treats can be incredibly rewarding there too (I freeze string cheese so it is cold out on the field). And the excitement of the toy might wane after the first rep, so you can switch to a different toy or switch to food.
2nd sequence:
Super nice forward focus on 1! Couldn’t hear the release verbal, so hopefully it was a wrap verbal. This is a spot where you can use 2 hands to indicate the forward focus because it will tell him to look at the jump and be ready to turn.> I was surprised how hard it was to be off his line going 4-5, the bigger dogs would have had even more issues I think. Backside sends with running on the dog’s line are still a work in progress for him and I think he sorted it out very well in this session.>
Yes! This is the hardest section of this pop out! Being closer to 3 to be able to push to 4 without having to step to it (and while setting up the FC) is what will help get the FC done more quickly without backing up, but is it really challenging.
Another option is to keep him on your right and rear cross the tunnel, which sets up a nice line to 6 and puts you in a great spot for 7!
He had trouble with the 7 jump: he went to the backside really well then did not take the jump. This is more of a dog training question than a handling question, and you knew that so you broke it down to do some dog training. Super!
You can help with the handling by looking at the landing spot (and pointing to it) on the landing of 7 as you move through and move your arm back a bit to serp him in (you had great arm placement on the last rep!) Don’t look at him 🙂 That will help him commit. And if he doesn’t take it, just keep going (he is not a dog I would stop and fix things in the moment with). We will be training this more specifically in the 3rd training package 🙂As you were building it up, he needed a little more support to the 7 backside at 2:20, probably starting from the tunnel was the best idea to get momentum. And keep going even though he got the toy… I think the toy is nice but staying in motion is nicer! Stopping mid-sequence usually indicates something is wrong and the dogs can tell the difference between a reset reward and a ‘that was amazing’ reward.
Since we were chatting about placed rewards… the placed reward at 2:44 and 3:02, etc to get him to come in for the backside was not really a reward, based on his response of “yeah just gimme the cookie” LOL! I think it was more of a visual aid and did help. He gets it and brings it to you but doesn’t really play with it. So to make it more rewarding… use a treat hugger or something where he can immediately get the treat, or you can use a toy on a line and take off dragging it for him to chase/bite/shake/kill 🙂 When you threw it, it was more of a real reward (and he took it on a victory lap for a moment). But you might find that placed rewards are more effective when you ten drag them for him to chase 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>“Toy placement is a bit rooted in operant conditioning/transactional learning which is fine because OC is a part of learning, of course… but it is actually a pretty small piece of it and ultra control on a toy on the ground might be detrimental to the other elements which are super important! Fascinating, nerdy stuff“
I am certainly intrigued by this!>It comes back to dopamine in many ways, and the operant conditioning dog training world largely doesn’t realize what dopamine actually does (and they assume it is released every time we reward the dog, which is really not the case). The surprise element of throwing toys or placing them in surprising ways is both better for operant conditioning (Reward Prediction Errors are what drive encoding learning) and for motivation – motivation is what happens before we ‘reward’ the dog 🙂 and yes, it is dopamine based too. Freakin’ dopamine LOL!!
And being very predictable (placing the toy the same way over and over) is not as great for learning as many think it is (dopamine release doesn’t happen in that way then things are too predictable) and worse yet: placing a toy and withdrawing it/punishing drive to it even if it was not ‘cued’/putting too much control on it/too much pressure in the environment/playing on HUMAN terms when it should really be on the DOG’S terms can actually cause a dopamine drop out because of reward prediction errors.
In my experience, the placed rewards with ultra control on them are most useful for (and largely taught by owner/handlers of) breeds that have a more intense intrinsic motivation for herding-style games (agility is most definitely a herding style game).
Plus all individuals are different, all breeds are different… I am sure there are breeds and individuals where the intrinsic motivation for work is so high that it doesn’t matter what we try to deliver as a reward or punishment LOL!
It is both complex and extremely fascinating, and makes my head hurt a little. But looking at our training through the lens of operant conditioning can really limit us! And because it is so fascinating, I’ve gone back to school to learn the neuroscience because it really changes my perspective on training.
>The most prized toys for all 3 of my Rats have been the buffalo/coyote hide toys from Tug away C U Win.>
They make the BEST dead animal toys. I can also get you some flyball dead animal toys, gross and fabulous!
>He would probably like a water bottle in a toy, but pretty sure those fall under toys that make noise and can’t be used in NFC runs.>
I have used water bottle toys in UKI NFC and it has never been an issue – the bottle is not even loud enough for me to hear it. But it is the favorite thing for the murderdogs in my household: whippets, half whippets, terrier 🙂
> I have some raccoon tails stitched to a line. But none of his favorite toys seem to hold any interest beyond a few seconds in trial environments.>
Novelty is probably key for him. I find that true with a couple of my dogs too, so I go into NFC runs with 2 or 3 different toys stuffed in my pockets. I play with one then the next reward is a different toy. Many dogs really thrive on novelty and that is cool with me, because we get them trained and then everyone is happy. Some dogs hate the novelty of new reinforcement but I don’t think he would hate it at all.
>He is wild for flirt pole/lunge whip type of games, so wonder if I could attach the raccoon tail to a mini one for rewarding at trials. >
YESSSSSSS or tie 3 toys together for a long crazy toy and you swing it around and he can decide which part to bite/shake/kill 🙂
>Or we just keep working the food reward zones, especially for the summer when it’s hot and maybe not worth pushing the toy play until it’s cooler. They are “our” trials, the ones I help put on, so almost one a month.>>
This too! Build a big toolbox of reinforcement and then you can use it all to be happily surprising… which is extremely great for motivation, focus, and engagement.
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
The cat covering your husband was HILARIOUS at the end. I will be chuckling about that all day LOL!!!!! I am sure he would be glad to know you kept him off the video LOL
The courses ran really well!!!! And you did a great job working through the hard parts to help her out or to tweak handling cues.
Looking at the different sections:
Course 1:
The layering worked really well on the opening line – you don’t need to drive up far at all on the first reps, especially when she was feeling fresh and spicy! The further up you go, the more you set the line to the off course – so try not to go past the tunnel at all 🙂
At :50 and 1:30 you both committed her to the line and turned your shoulders so she was able to make the turn to find the 3-4 line and you were easily ahead there. Yay!
That also made it a lot easier to be ahead of her when she exits 5 to show the 6 backside (you got behind at :33). By being miles ahead at :54 and 1:36 the backside at 6 was easy peasy!
I liked the flip away 7-8 at :59 – she had a great turn and nice line. And you were able to get ahead again! You rotated a little too early there at 1:39 so she was not as sure about driving past you. At :59, you were decelerating forward then rotated as she was passing you, compared to 1:39 where rotating as she landed which is why she slowed down to be sure.
That weave entry was AMAZING! She was a bit wide over jump 9 at 1:02 (probably needs more of a turn cue on a the send, such as sending with two hands to get a little collection and maybe a name call too). She dropped the bar there at 1:44 so definitely adding a turn cue will help her.
The wideness caused her to be turning to her right over 10 which, in theory, takes her off the line to the weaves.
However, you said “weave” as she was over 9 and you were super connected and you maintained the parallel line to the weave entry even from all that distance away from her. So she got the entry AND stayed in. WOWZA!!! That is highly rewardable!
The backside cue at 1:11 was not as clear – you were looking forward and pointing ahead of her and rotated before she was committed, so it ending up cueing the front of the jump. When you re-did it at 1:20 – much clearer connection and line! Super nice!
The FC on the landing side at 1;21 and 1:56 sent her to the off course jump, good rewarding there at 1:21!
And sending to it as a post turn at 2:03 also cued the line to the jump. You got it with the FC at 2:13 and 2:27 by slowing down a lot but that puts you far behind on the next section.A blind cross exit of the 13 backside will get the tunnel and get you ahead! It is a ‘German’ turn: push to the backside while you drive forward with countermotion, then as she is approaching takeoff and you are passing the wing, you do the blind. That gets you ahead and allows you to cue the exit of 14 and turn on 15 to get the 16 backside.
On 15, ideally you would slice her to her right because that is both faster and sets a great line to the backside of 16. A slicey rear cross would work there. The left wrap is hard/slower on 15 and then requires a big push to get 16, which puts you behind for the next line.
The ending line went well! The very last jump is a threadle as you found out at 2:40 🙂 You did a big in in when she exited the tunnel but I bet a name call before she enters and the in in as she is exiting without any foot rotation is probably all you need there. You said “GO!” so she ended up on the backside, good girl 🙂
After all that work on the course, you can take an extended break and revisit the course either hours later or the next day. She was hot/tired by the time you did the runs at 3:05 so she was slower and missed the weave entry. It is better to try her again on the full course when she is rest and at full speed 🙂
Course 2:
She had an interesting response to the “ok” release at 4:02! She turned to you and almost didn’t take the jump. That makes sense to me, because generally “ok” means to come towards the handler. When you said her jump cue, it made more sense to her. It was not as pronounced on the 2nd rep and after that but she had already seen the sequence 🙂Your lead out position was great though, and it made getting her to the backside on 4 much easier!
At 4:08 you were trying to move forward with excellent countermotion but she did not take the jump. This is a dog training question more than a handling question. You can help her with handling: As you go past the jump, you can look back (and point back) to the landing spot rather than look at her. And the solidify the dog training element: throw a reward to the landing spot, so she gets paid for taking the jump even as you run forward past it. We will definitely be working this countermotion skill more in coming weeks!
It looks like you were looking back more at 4:17 but the video cutoff so I don’t know if she took the jump or not: cliffhanger! LOL! I am guessing she did not based on you working it at 4:20. Sh took the jump when you were still on landing side, but your instinct to keep moving forward like you did at 4:08 is correct: now we just need to add the dog training so she fully understands the countermotion commitment needed there.
You had more countermotion at 4:30 and even better at 4:45 and a very obvious look back at the landing spot and she got it! You can throw the reward behind you to really solidify that so you can keep moving and don’t need to stop at all… and eventually you won’t need to look back at all.
The bar came down at 5:17 and 6:00 but that might have been because you were decelerating and staying on landing side for too long so she shortened her stride to figure out where to land, and/or fatigue. He got it when you kept moving through at 6:12. These are high yardage courses so stopping to repeat stuff puts more mileage on the dog, increasing fatigue and getting compensation either from them or from the handling.
This was a much easier weave entry, no problem at all on the first rep through there. She did a great job of letting you move to the next line to layer while staying in the weaves.
She had a questions about going to the 7-8-9 line at 4:53 because the Go cue was late there. She had exited and already taken a big stride towards you when you sent her back out to the line. Ideally, you start those cues before she exits the weaves 🙂 So she stays straight.
You started the physical cues of going straight before she exited the weaves at 5:25 – on that rep, you were flying down the next line while she was weaving so she had no questions (even though the verbal late). The physical cues were very clear to take 7! Then keep connected and saying the hup cues so she doesn’t look at you before 8.
You can layer the 11-12-13-14 line if you like, and that will make the 13-14 threadle even smoother because your position will turn her better.
She had a question on the 15 backside at 5:07 – the arm being a bit high and pointing ahead, plus too much decel turned your shoulders away from the backside line and blocked connection, so the physical cues overrode the verbals and she took the front of 15.
Compare to 5:38 where you had more connection and no pointing arm, which kept the motion parallel to the backside line and she got it really well. Nice!!!!
She pulled the bar at 5:40 on 15 and 6:35 – she was looking at you, which means the next info was late 🙂 You were looking ahead and hadn’t said any verbal yet at 5:40 and said “hup” at 6:35 as she was already jumping, so remember to keep connected to her and tell her what is next before she takes off for the jump.
The tunnel-tunnel section went well too! But definitely revisit this when she is fresh and running hard because that will challenge you to time your cues sooner. She was a little wide because the right cue was late (she was already halfway through the tunnel when ideally she hears it before she enters the tunnel). When she is fresh and spicy, you will definitely need it to be more timely or she might end up off course.
Because your position at 17 was really good (near the exit) the serp/blind as you were running across the tunnel exit was great! She just needed the little name call to get the front side of 19.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>1) For the focus forwards exercise with the tunnel, both Mookie and Alonso had nice focus forwards for all the positions. This was a nice test to see this.>
Yay! Good boys!
>2) For the Super Independent handling skills: Mookie was clean first round for Sequence 1 through 5. I needed to really be clear to take tunnel 9 as he bypassed it for his first run for sequence 6.>
You can look at how you cued the jump before the tunnel. If you cued it with turn cues (I used 2 hands and a turn verbal, as he was exiting the previous jump) he will land facing the tunnel.
>Alonso was clean first run Seq 1 thru 3 For Seq 4 He took a tunnel once after jump 3. I had to be clear with my out command and out arm. Seq 5 Alonso did on first try. And Alonso also needed a stronger “come Tunnel” cue to get 9 for seq 6. Second run was clean.>Great! So that added support on the layering helped him, and the turn to the tunnel was no trouble.
>I was able to do both Standard Courses this week.>
I saw it was set up at SOTC, hopefully you got in on that so you could play in the air conditioning 🙂
> I did throw in a Double Jump at 5 Course 1 and 13 Course 2 to practice a spread jump in the mix.>
Smart! You can add in a tire too, on a straight line.
>I started with Course 2 :For both dogs I learned I really had to give a strong out to get tunnel 9. I was able to send both dogs to the teeter from behind the dogwalk. I also layered the weaves. >Excellent! The layering is super useful. And the more he sees the whole tunnel under the dog walk thing, the less you will have to work on him finding it.
>Mookie does his backsides well both sending to a backsides or doing threadle wrap backsides. Alonso does better threadle wrap backsides than sending but we worked on it and he imnproved nicely. >
For the sending to the push wraps on backsides, if he is taking the front of the jump then you need to add more connection. If he is going to the back but not taking the jump as you move way, then you can add looking at and pointing to the landing spot behind you as you move away.
>They are night and day but I am learning what each needs. I do practice them back to back.>
It is harder when they are so different, but practicing them back to back will help! Be sure you give yourself a walk through for each dog 🙂
>Doing Course 1 after Course 2 was easy and we nailed it first try both dogs. Both dogs followed my cues for what I call circle backside wraps on Course 1. Buddy was not present for these sessions as I was able to do it indoors and I run Buddy outdoors but it was too hot out 🙂>
Yay! That is great that course 1 seemed eat and you nailed it!! Super!!!! And I am sure Buddy was happy to NOT run in the crazy heat!
Sounds like things are going great! Thank you for the update!
Tracy
Hi!
>H I think the reason I disliked the training session so much was I can see the stress I was causing her, and that makes me feel icky (technical term!). >
That is always a signal to stop and watch the video! When something is going sideways and I don’t know how to change things… video time!
> but she was clearly confused and frustrated, and I was annoyed FOR her when I was watching the video, lol.>
And we don’t want any confusion or frustration to get built into the start line, so definitely best to hash it out and get her happy.
>I found that playing the pattern games and playing with a toy on top of warm-up to get her body ready to run was wearing her out before we got to the startline, >
Interesting! It might be that you were going on for too long? If I get to the ring 7 minutes before a run for example (which is a long time LOL), I spend most of that just hanging out. Pattern game maybe when I first get into the environment, then if there is a struggle… the volume dial in the last minute before the run. The physical warm up might also be done in that time frame too, although much of it is done before I get to the ring area. So time how long you are out there and see if you can cut it down, so you can add in the games again.
>However, I think that with all of the things you mentioned (dopamine, adolescent hormones and brain development, frustration, etc.), she’s showing me that she really does need some of those games.>
They all do need some semblance of a mental warm up, and exactly what they need will change throughout their career.
> I will also play the freeze game. We haven’t done that, but I think she would LOVE it! >
It is silly fun: get her wild, play with a toy, turn on some good music – then just sat ‘stay’ and freeze, then reward. Start off easy 🙂 and don’t move away yet. Over time, you will be able to move away really quickly. I actually used it in the insanity of flyball this past weekend: I had an early pass (oops!) so I had to re-run to win the race, but I couldn’t send for the re-run until the dog after him had gotten far enough back to us. Since CB has done the freeze dance game, I ran back, turned around to face the box… and said stay. He froze until I said “GO!” Then he nailed the re-run. Everyone else was like “did you just say stay and he froze?” Yes! Freeze dance silliness for the win! Works great for agility start lines too LOL
>For the brain scramblers, her brain was pretty scrambled listening to your dogs play it. 🤣>
Things get a little wild here in Sklenarville hahahahaha
> We haven’t played that one before (I don’t think it was in any of the Max Pup classes that I have??), >
It is in the Want To Stay, Ready To Go class and I know it is in brain camp stuff. I have a video somewhere that combines the tunnel scramblers with a freeze dance stay – it is hilarious but I can’t find it!
>I’m not sure I can do the 3rd level more than once or twice before the neighbors start thinking I’m murdering her. She has BIG FOMO!!!>
Ha! Yes, my neighbors think I am deranged (and they might be right :))
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Hi!
>Enjoy a couple of bloopers, lol. She’s such a funny dog!>
She is so fun! Just a happy joyous critter 🙂
This session went well:
Very nice chill lead outs and more connection on rep 2 and after that helped! Good rewards here!
I notice that you ‘dismount’ the lineup position and move away very immediately to your lead out spot, and she almost always moves her feet toward you. Sometimes it is 2 feet, sometimes only 1 foot… but always movement. So even at home, you are getting a lot of movement in the stay, which I can see becoming too much movement when she is more excited at a trial.
Something to try is to dismount, step to the side a little and pause, allowing her to settle into her position. Then remind her to stay and move to your lead out position.
Seq 1:
A small blooper at the beginning (1:47) where you pulled away to your left, off the parallel path, so she turned (and you said left) At 2:28 you were much better at staying on the parallel path until you were very sure she is committing to 4 (you still had plenty of time to handler 5-6).
The BC at 2:31 was a little late – she was lifting off when you start so she landed long after 5. The timing of decel and brake arms on 6 was good!
The timing at 4:07 of the blind was super! That allowed you to start your decel sooner too. Based on how well she read the decel and brake arms at 2:31, I don’t think you need the spin here – it kind of tangled you up a little bit!
The switch cue surprised her at 2:38. Decel and bigger arm cues will help her (and repeating the switch verbal too) which will also let you layer the last line – you said it once and were running forward at the same pace, so she looked back at you before turning away. That happened at 3:32 when you were isolating it too.
On the last rep, you did put the decel into the switch and the turn was much tighter AND I didn’t see her look back at you. Super! You can start the decel there even sooner, just as she exits the tunnel. I also use big arm cues to kind of ‘swoosh’ the dog away. Both the earlier decel and the arm swoosh will allow you to cue the tight turn and hang back so you can layer the end too!
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
Super clever to cut the ground bars off to give yourself more flexibility, and also clever to use weaves in the middle for now – it keeps you visible while adding layering challenges. Super!
First video:
The most helpful thing for building the layering will be throwing the rewards. That includes for when he gets the jumps, and also when he is close to the jumps 😁 and on the other side of the layering obstacle. So even though he didn’t take the jump on the first rep, he did go to the other side of the weaves so you can totally reward that with a throw reward.
Running the line with him on the 2nd rep helped him see the jumps, so he was able to layer on rep 3. Yay! That is a good spot to throw the reward too (between jumps 3 and 4) to affirm and reward his choice to stay out on the line. It will also help him keep the bar up on 4, because he will be jumping in bigger extension.
Second video:
>Ven struggled more in this direction. >
All of the dogs have found this side harder, including my own. I think the angle is a little harder for them, for some reason.
On the first rep, he thought about going out to jump 3 and you can reward that! I like to reward for looking at the line in these early stages of layering training. And the thrown rewards will also help build more value for staying on the line than for coming back to you 😁 He was getting reset rewards, but you can throw the reset reward out on the line to help him get the concept. And when he did get jump 3… throw the reward! You cued 4 and went towards it but not over it, so got rewarded from your hand again.
Angling the jump and moving past the weaves a little definitely helped! On the last rep, you changed things up to send more and move less, but I think the moving helped hm more – staying on the parallel line is a really helpful cue for him.
An idea for the layering sessions: rather than think of it as trying to run the sequence, think of it as trying to get reward out on the line (and as far away from you as possible LOL!!). That will add value to the lines which in turn will make the sequences much easier to use layering. He doesn’t have to be perfect and take the jumps – you can reward for heading out that direction, and throw the reward to a spot between the 2 layering jumps.
>Thinking we’ll revisit it Sun morning with tunnel instead of weaves. They might be a little high value>
The weaves were a good choice because he could see your motion really well, but you can also try the tunnel (you might have to turn the ends down so he can’t get into it LOL!) But the most important thing will be the reward placement out on the line, then you can use either the weaves or tunnel, whichever you like!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
She did great here – I agree that the lotus ball really helped her commit to the jump!It was hard to see where she was looking because the bars on the jump wing were blocking her cute face 😊 but it looks like she was looking at you. You can keep playing with this to get her to glance at the jump more and even turn her head to it, so you are sure about her commitment when you are behind her like on the last rep, or on the other side of the tunnel (she’s totally ready for that!).
Playing with getting her to look at the lotus ball and at a wing can all be done indoors in the a/c so you don’t have to worry about her or you getting too hot. It had been so hot!!!! And that will transfer easily to the jump.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>I really liked Bobbi and Dr. Murphy’s recent webinar about reward/learning/motivation. >
I am glad you liked it – it was really interesting!!
>Thinking about reward less like traditional reward and more about how it motivates …. that’s definitely interesting!! >
Absolutely – and also what actually *is* a reinforcement versus just rehearsal. It goes way beyond traditional operant conditioning and gets us to much better places in our training 🙂
>And the concept of how learning happens when the reward/lack of reward doesn’t match the expected reward. So interesting.>
YES, this! And understanding dopamine systems also helps us understand why withholding reward/punishing can cause issues – either when we do it too much, or when we do it when the dog was correct (and they are correct 99% of the time 🤣😂)
The more we know, the better we train. It is fun stuff to learn about, I am glad you are in there with us!
>Decided that I have 2 goals for Summer Camp…..practice those verbals so that I can use the verbals
The package 3 handling stuff is very specific about using verbals while running. That is the top question I get from everyone: how the heck to remember all the darn words AND be connected AND run. So, stay tuned for package 3 🙂
>and still stay connected to Sly and be more fun….less studious, more fun!>
Great goal! We humans get very studious and in our own heads, and dogs can read that as punishment sometimes. And since they are not mice in a lab, and based on how their brains have evolved, they really need the engagement from us as part of the reward system.
Looking at the video:
> First rep on Sequence 3 I was thinking more about my handling (get there for the blind) and not enough about what Sly was doing… too early on the blind from 5 to 6. >
Yes – a bit too early. But rather than mark it and stop (even to reward) – just keep going. Sure, he was following you correctly but the big marker and stopping can still be perceived as relative punishment. So, just keep going and cue the next thing.
The 2nd blind at :45 was better in terms of committing him to 5! You can be a stride or too earlier there. 1:13 was spot on in terms of the timing! You were finished with the blind and re-connected before he took off. SUPER!!!
The bar dropped there – it looks like it was because you went past the line you wanted, causing him to jump past the line. Then as he was taking off, you were pushing back towards 6 so he tried to adjust in the air.
The timing at 2:00 was not quite as perfect as the timing at 1:13, but it was still good and more importantly – it looks like your running line was more directly towards 6 so he had no questions. Yay!
>Sequence 4, should’ve rewarded after 4 on the first rep. He had a little bit of a question and I missed the opportunity for that unexpected reward and helping the learning>
Agree! He was heading out there asking questions (there is something out there next to the wall that put pressure on the line too) so a reward in between the 2 jumps would have been good. But he did get rewarded, which is good – the placement out on the line will be more effective for getting the layering and for making sure he knows it is not all about coming back to you 🙂
He had a question about going all the way out there on the next rep when you tried not to go past the tunnel, so that definitely points towards the reward needing to be on the landing side of 4 more. He got it on the last rep really well when you went another step or two past the tunnel – and you were still able to get the layering done really well too.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
>Lift would like to thank her Counsel and says, I rest my case, so there, stoopid hooman!>
Ha!
I mean, in the time that I have known Lift, she has never actually been wrong, so I always take her feedback very seriously LOL
and yay for the weave poles!!!!!
T
Hi! This went well!
Nice blind 5-6 each time!!! And good work with the verbals here too!
On the first rep, the info was a little late for the 7 jump on the post turn: you were facing the wall and she was jumping into the wall so the bar was down at :07 (she just didn’t know how tight the turn was).
Compare to the reps at :15 and :27 and :35 where you turned to face the new line sooner (really whipped your shoulders around in the post turn) and she kept the bar up (earlier info meant earlier organization for the jump). The last rep with the spin was GREAT! It got you turned to the next line sooner than the other options and she did great.
One thing I am noticing is that she often keeps the bars up on the ‘easy’ lines on the first run (the bar down at :07 was more about late handling). Then as the session continues, she drops more bars for no real reason other than not quite powering over the bars enough. So a question: How much time does she have between reps? She might need more time to let her muscles recover (lactic acid build up, etc) so she is at full power for each rep. Can you do one rep with her, than maybe a run with Sassy the go give Grace cookies 🙂 then come back 5 minutes later and try another with Maisy? I am curious to see if that helps her.
Nice work here!!! Let me know what you think.
Tracy
Hi!
I am glad you got through the brutal weather week! We had it here on Monday-Thursday. SO HOT! It made yesterday’s 85 degrees seem downright cool and comfy. And it sounds like your ankle is doing better – yay!
Looking at Kaladin’s video: He has layering experience and did really well! For him, you can stretch the sequence out as far as the yard allows: how much distance can he do? It would be fun to find out!
Since he has an understanding of layering so he was able to do sequence 1 without much motion, good boy! You can add more motion by sticking closer to 1 and 2 to get more speed into the layering, and deliver the “out go jump” verbals before takeoff for 2 (they were at landing of 2, which is a little late).
Sequence 2 had more motion into the layer so he really powered into it! On this one too, you can give the “go out there and layer” verbals before he takes off for 2.
Seq 3: On the first run, the FC 5-6 can be sooner. You did it as he was over 5 and ideally it would be finished by then. That caused a bit of wideness over 5 and 6 as well because the late FC caused the turn cues to be late.
Nice timing adjustment for the FC timing at 1:10! It was earlier, finished before takeoff, so the turn was better there too, and the turn on 6 was better too. It would be fun to see if the turn he did here was faster or slower than you adding more collection cues, like brake arms or even a spin. You can try all 3 and we can time it!
>The indoor space in Animal Inn was a lot cooler than the sauna outside but the ring is long and narrow with Great Mats (not the comfort king she runs on at Fusion). >
I am very glad they moved it indoors!!!!
>She figured out the footing quickly and started out well but relapsed into a Leaping Lizard as the session progressed.>
We haven’t seen the LL in a long time – do you have video so we can see why it was happening? It is possible that she seemed to figure out the foot, but was compensating and devoting a LOT of bandwidth to it – which can be frustrating! So it is possible that the LL moments were footing related. I have certainly seen frustration happen caused by footing issues!
>A waiting dog erupting in a fit of really loud barking just outside the ring right before her 2nd sequence in the first rep did not help >
Poor girlie! Yes, it does take a lot of bandwidth to recover – that plus the heat outside plus the footing plus the sequencing plus you not running normally might have just added up to not a lot of brain juice left over.
Looking at the video:
>She does some exciting leaping as we are starting>
That seems to be part of her “I am really excited and ready” mode, so I think it is great 🙂
>then the frustrated leaping lizard shows up later>
I think she had a good point here about the info she was seeing! And also the rate of success/rate of reinforcement got low which brought on the frustration (more on that below).
Bearing in mind that she is new to this level of challenge, she had a valid point at :22 when she was heading to the 3 jump then came off the line:
At :22 you were rotated facing the tunnel with your arm up really high. She processed the Go verbal to override the motion and was heading out to 3 (GOOD GIRL!).
But because you had gotten in a little close to the tunnel and stood still, your next movement was to your left which took you off of the parallel path line she needed to see to support the layering.
She stayed on the correct side of the tunnel but then when you stopped and didn’t reward, she perceived it as punishment and got a little mad (she was correct that the info was a little confusing). Even though you praised her, it was frustrating to her because following a big effort, it was a withdrawal of reinforcement opportunity and you walked away from her. You were walking away to place the toy, but she didn’t know that. So you can totally throw the reward to reward the effort of getting out close to the line. Then you can place the toy to help, but also watch the video to see what caused her to come off the line.
You had more parallel path motion as she was approaching 3 at :46, plus the placed toy was good visual – fun to see that the jump was more valuable!
Something very similar happened on the first rep of sequence 2: You went past the tunnel to get her to take 3 (which she did) then as she was approaching 3, you pulled away laterally to get back to the other side of the tunnel, which cued a right turn on 3 which she executed brilliantly.
She stayed out on the other side of side of the tunnel reading the info – didn’t get rewarded and instead you turned your back on her and walked away. I am sure you were planning your next rep but from her perspective it was punishing (negative punishment, withdrawal of reinforcement opportunity) which is frustrating especially since she was reading the info correctly. She barked a BIG CURSE WORD at you when you turned your back to her.
She did get a cookie when you got back to your line up spot, but that was a solid 10 seconds later so it did not correlate to the sequence you had run.
Then at 1:20, you broke connection a little on the way to 2 (pointing forward with your back to her) and she boiled over into LLF (Leaping Lizard Frustration), having a big mad. From her perspective, she’d already been told she was wrong after processing information as best she could (and correctly), so she had the Big Mad when the info was unclear.
At 1:54, you had a similar pull away from 3 but you threw the reward for getting 3 and the effort of trying to read the cues: excellent!! That is what she needed (and then watch the video to see why she was coming off the line). You can also throw the reward for her getting close to the 4 jump at 2:23! Throw it early when she is looking at it, rather than wait til she lands from it. She got a little unsure when she had to layer the tunnel AND the tree.
Basically, even if she doesn’t take the jumps perfectly, you are shaping the layering by getting the toy out there and telling her: yes, being out there is where you should be. And then she will start finding the jumps on her own when she understands the line.
I grabbed screenshots so you see the moments she was seeing and basing her responses off of:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1L3Fhfpj_GUjJA28LZHdvSGAwcr9Ngy61IIoCPJ99WNg/edit?usp=sharingSo I think the leaping moments here were her saying “HEY I AM DOING IT RIGHT, WHY NO REWARD HOOOOOMAN?” and in a Sheltie court of law, I think the jury would agree with her LOL!!!! So make throwing the reward or using effort rewards the highest priorities when training these, and even if it goes wrong: stay engaged and reward 🙂
>massage therapist on Wednesday did find tightness in her grasilis and more on the right than the left. It did loosen up but I’m keeping a close eye on it and massaging her some too. It certainly doesn’t seem to be inhibiting her airborne tendencies.?
Interesting!! I think the gracilis is responsible for explosive speed on lines and turns – it is a common injury in whippets/greyhounds/whippet mixes. I don’t think it is as involved in leaping up as it is in driving lines in extension, but I will do more research. I think what helps keep the gracilis happy is active warm up where we ramp up to speed gradually then do some explosive movements in the warm up. Let me ask my whippet racing people what they do to properly warm it up and keep it happy 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
