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Perfect! I use left and right for the 180s as well, and then you can use tide for one direction and a different word for the other wrap direction.
T
Good morning! These are all looking strong – the Utah crew is Rockin’ it!!
She did really well with the tunnel double whammy and she definitely liked the toy as the reward!!!
>>I am not sure why she was turning so wide out of the tunnel going to the right. The first time I didn’t call her but I think I remembered to after that. Was there something about my dynamics that led to that and/or what do you suggest to improve that. >>
It looks like the first several reps had a toy thrown out straight on the right turn exits, plus a person standing there – she learns quickly, so my guess is she was going a little wider due to placement of reinforcement from the early reps and late name calls. Nothing to worry about at all! On the other side, it looks like she didn’t have the same toy throws out straight or a person there, so she turned better.
Either way, no worries, the goal was to do the threadles and she did great!! You can add in meeting her more at tunnel exit so you can move to the threadle side more – adding motion to add challenge 🙂
She did well with the threadles in general, especially when you stopped moving your shoulders 🙂 One tweak: be sure you look at her to see what she is looking at before you release her. If she is looking away, or at the front side, take an extra moment to release her. I think her attention was wandering a bit because it took you a while (in dog years LOL) to get into position and you didn’t connect before releasing her – yes, you should look at the hand target, but look at her first – then at the hand. And be sure to have more of your body situated by the wing – at :45, most of you was visible through the uprights (I am not sure she could see the threadle hand) so you can move over a bit more so your hand, arm and shoulder are all visible outside the wing rather than between the uprights.
Speaking of releases: time to add the threadle verbal as the release! The regular “ok” verbal will mean the front side of the jump on a lead out, which might be part of why she had the error on the 2nd to last rep. So for the next session, replace the “ok” with the threadle slice verbal 🙂
Looking at the ‘out’ video – at this stage, I think it is OK to use a different prop as long as you have built value for it with a click/treat session before using it for something more complex. She did well with this new prop, because she understands the concept and also seems to understand that it is about the concept and not about only that one original prop. YAY!!!
As you add more motion, try to have a line on the ground to keep yourself from moving towards the prop at all – on a couple of reps, you were definitely migrating towards the prop 🙂
>>Which hand should the reward be in?
Whichever hand is easier to throw from 🙂 You will want to throw quickly and out ahead, so you might want to have it in the dog side arm so that you can toss it more easily before she starts coming back to you.
Nice work on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
The impulse control on the toy is off to a good start with the sits, he did really well with these! And he was able to respond to his name and look at you – you can reward that focus on you as you shape your way to getting the touches going. The sit and the name response are easier because the touch involves moving away from the toy and that is HARD! With more practice, the touches will be easier and he will be able to move away from the toy to do them.
The other thing to play for impulse control on the toy is the beginning of the remote reinforcement game:This helps establish impulse control too!
Looking at the backsides:
>>I realized I can’t use “back” because that sounds too much like “Bax”, which I call him a lot. I think I’ll use “push” when we get to that point.
Ah yes, good catch! Push is a great word! I think you are ready to add it – make sure you stay connected and look at his face when you say it as you are moving up the line.
Overall, he seemed to have no trouble finding the backside line when you were connected (one blooper in connection, see below). You can put a leash on the ground to create a line to the center of the bump now, to add more distance away from the cone.
>>I realized he didn’t seem to be his usual joyful, bright self so I cut it off after a few reps on each side.>>
I think it had to do with the motivation value of the reinforcement.
If there is a blooper, you can reward with a reset cookie when he ends up in the wrong spot: assume it was handler error, reward, and reset. For example at :36 – when he had to make a decision about which side to go to, you were looking forward so there was no side info… and he chose the front side. That was an excellent choice when there was no other info. But he didn’t get rewarded for it which can deflate motivation when he doesn’t know why he was incorrect.
He had a little trouble finding the tossed cookie for whatever reason, then was distracted by the search for it – and I think the dead toy as the reward was also not as motivating. He likes the chase and party for sure! For example, on the 2nd to last rep, you tossed the toy and then got it moving for him to chase and he loved that! Compare to the last rep where you were bending over and putting it down in front of him… not as enticing 🙂 So keep the reinforcement very exciting – you can throw it but then keep it moving so he can chase it. That is more of a real reinforcement for him. Asking him to retrieve it for a cookie is not as much of a reinforcement: because retrieving is ‘work’ and the cookie is not as high in value as chasing the toy is.
Tunnel games:
He did great with the tunnel! So speedy, finding the entries, playing with the toy (no running off and no hiding in the tunnel LOL)He had one question on the send, at 2:03 on the threadle side – he was going from a pretty hard angle then you stepped back – he caught that motion and had a big question. That is also a spot for a reset cookie. He got it nicely when you did not move on the next reps. So you can move on the threadle entries, but move towards the tunnel rather than stepping back from it.
Also, you might have done one rep too many… sure, he did the last rep, but he had to be moved into position because he was not offering moving into the line up when asked. Bearing in mind that the dogs are sprinting in this game and we are not 🙂 he might have needed a break. You can set a timer to 2 minutes and be finished before he asks to be finished by not moving into position.
Separately from tunnel games… you can just go outside and ask him to eat cookies, or give him his meals outside. He seems pickier for food outside, which makes sense and is pretty normal for a lot of dogs.
He was a good boy on the reverse retrieves! I think his retrieving overall is looking really good – not just in this game, but I noticed it too in the backside game. It is a useful reinforcement skill and also a fun game 🙂
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>I use “Tide Left” and “Tide right” for wraps
Based on what I am seeing, he is going to be too fast for you to be able to use tide before the left and right, because if tide means it could be either left or right, he his going to have to be delayed in his response by a stride, waiting for the left or right. For example: say he needs to wrap jump 3, and he only has 1 stride to make the adjustment for the wrap. If he is in the air over 2 or landing from 2 and you start the cue “tide right” – the tide is not enough info so he will take one more stride waiting for hear left or right before he can make the adjustment properly. But if you say “right” as he is landing from 2… then he can totally make an immediate adjustment, no delay. Let me know if that makes sense.
I suggest either using tide for only one direction, or using only left or right.
>>I use “Push” for Backsides
Perfect!
>>I was always wondering, when we teaching our young dogs to wrap the cone
is that foundation of Wrap or Backside jump?>
I assume for Wraps, but it looks like Backside to me.>>The rocking horses will become front side wraps. We add backsides with the visual of a “bar” (a bump) so the pups understand backside as go to the other side of the bar.
>>I also generally BAD with Verbals. It is so much to do on course running a dog!
Stay connected, know your line, show the dog line from possibly ahead, remember the course. Pronouncing the verbals at correct time is adding extra effort, that I am struggling with.
That means – I need to practice more. Having a puppy and no speed just yet with simple exercises IS the perfect way to start!>>I agree that is it a LOT 🙂 But since we are starting this with the young dogs, I also agree – lots and lots of practice will make it so much easier 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>How did you know I was freaking out? LOL.
Ha! Because you are a normal human who might have been freaking out a bit LOL!!!
>>I mean, I know BCs do stuff like this, but she’s only 6 months old. Eeck!>>
Welcome to the beginning of canine adolescence 🙂 Teenage dogs are unpredictable and spicy, and that is what was happening here 🙂
>> know it’s more than 2 minutes, but it was having a hard time editing, giving you enough before and after, so here’s an index, I totally am not wanting you to look at the whole thing. >>
No worries! If it was an easy skills session then yes, edit it down. But when you run into a question? Post the whole video 🙂 Thank you for bringing this up, it is good to plan for and she is a pretty normal spicy teenager.
>>I’m anxious to work on arousal management! I want to start now! But raining through Tuesday, so it will have to wait.>>
We can start it now, we just don’t need to use the tunnel yet.
>>I totally get her frustration, by the way, I was annoying, and she actually does better when I’m moving with her.>>
You were NOT annoying LOL!!!! She is wanting the action action action do the thing. And I think on this video she didn’t know where to look or when to start, so she was frustrated because she wanted to run run run run. But it is good to teach her that not everything involves running all the time 🙂 And, having the MM out past the tunnel TOTALLY helped because she knew where to look.
So a couple of ideas:
I think we can bring a toy into the session. Food is a good motivator for her, but I think the action of a toy will be a better motivator and reinforcement. And you can develop a loop, such as:
Tug to get her to the position in front of the tunnel. Out the toy, cookie reward. Hand on collar, cookie reward. Send to tunnel: throw toy or click MM. Then tug tug tug back to the position in front of the tunnel again.And after every 1 or 2 reps, I suggest breaking off and doing a few reps of the cookie pattern games. That is because the tugging and tunneling brings her arousal state way up! So the pattern game will help teach her to self regulate bak to a more centered arousal state.
And if there is an error on the tunnel, you can throw a reset cookie for her and start again. The thrown cookies will provide more action, which will be more motivating than handing her the treats.
And since it is going to rain, you can teach her this loop in a less arousing state by using the prop or a balance disc or something. She is GREAT at touching these and also she doesn’t get as stimulated by the as she does with the tunnel. The already reduced arousal level will help you teach her the framework for self-regulation… then we can add back the tunnel when (or if LOL) the rain ever stops.
And if you haven’t had time to check out the most recent resilience game, take a look at the Volume Dial game – it will help you be able to change her arousal state and hat is something we use throughout training!
And video everything 🙂 And keep me posted!!
TracyHi!
You can hold the collar with the dog-side arm, and have the threadle arm up in position. Start saying the verbal… then let go, then move after he starts moving. The stationary threadle arm should be fine because he will move before anything else moves 🙂T
Hi!
>>so far my favorite
I am happy to hear it, I love them too because it is so fast and fun! In coming weeks, we add more games to this Rocking Horse game 🙂
He did really well in both directions – I really can’t see the side preference anymore. yay! And he did really well with all of the added motion here with your moving more: FUN FUN FUN!!!! I also liked his impulse control of ignoring the toy til it was time to play with the toy. Super!
So…. Have you decided on your wrap verbals? What verbals do you use for his big brother? 🙂 It is time to use them for Charlie too 🙂 You will want to start saying your wrap verbals as you are ending him, so both of you practice using them and responding to them. And then when you reward, you can use your ‘bite’ or ‘get it’ marker. Another goal is to NOT say “yes” as much, because it causes him to look at you and ask what you are ‘yes’ing about haha!! So the verbal wrap cues will give better info, and so will the reward markers – and that way he can look directly at his cones.
For the next session, add your wrap verbals. And then you can start doing the advanced level, where you show him the sideways and backwards sending, followed by leaving the FC sooner and sooner in the rocking horse game.
Great job on all of these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
The parallel path is also going well! He was definitely focusing forward to it and had not trouble finding the parallel path. He was even starting to run! A couple of things:>>I add Manners Minder for Reward. Is that beneficial?>>
Yes, you can totally use it in some sessions – but you don’t need to use the clicker in your hand AND the MM beeper. When the MM is being used, just use the MM remote. When you also used your clicker, he was not sure if he should look at you or at the MM. Using the MM beep only will answer that question.
Also, mix in the thrown toy instead of using food rewards. Sure, with food, we get more reps in. But the toy will bring out the speeeeeed! And he already wants to start running here… so let’s let him feel the wind in his hair 🙂 Be sure to mark his choice of focusing on the line rather than waiting til he gets to the jump (ideally with a ‘get it’ marker instead of a click) before he gets to the jump and before he looks at you, and try to throw the toy so it lands ahead of him before he looks back. You might end up running too 🙂
One thing I see is that he finds the parallel path over the bar on the way back to you: perfect! You can reward that too, because when you are running a course you will want him to find the line when he is behind you as well.
In later weeks, we did a concept transfer from the prop to a jump-like setup – since you are already using a jump bar, you can add wings to it to make the set up look more like a jump. But, don’t use a jump bar (because they roll around under his feet when he adds speed) – try a PVC bump or rolled up towel or pool noodle for now. The concept transfer is here:
Great job!!!
Tracy
Hi! This is also going really well! Yay!
He is doing well with the get out! It is not an intuitive behavior for the pups but he picked it up really well!
Nice clicks to mark the moment of him choosing to do the out!
You can start with a cookie toss so you are moving up the line ahead of him (instead of with him at your side). How is his stay coming along? If it is strong enough, you can use that too to get yourself ahead of him on the line, as well as a thrown toy instead of cookies. If the stay is not yet strong enough (he is still really young) you can totally keep going with cookie tosses for now 🙂
And be sure to mix in some reps where you don’t cue the out, so he should just stay on the line with you all the way past the prop and not go to the prop at all.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
He is doing well with figuring out the serpentine! Good job with the cookie tosses to get him started from all different angles and also your placement of reinforcement was great.
He was not entirely sure about driving into the empty hand. Do you have the target from the pre-game or strike a pose part 1 to put into your hand instead of the empty hand? The hand target can be more visible & salient to the pups, helping to draw them in to the serpentine.After another session like this, when he is driving in strongly to the hand target, you can use a toy or the Manners Minder as the reward. That will make it even more exciting for him!
Nice work :)
Tracy
Hi!
Eek it looks so cold there!!!
>>I just need something for a mat. I may give up my yoga mat…>>
Yoga mats are perfect – I bought a couple of cheapie ones at Walmart, so I didn’t feel bad about cutting them apart LOL!
About the tunnel game:
For the threadle side entry, I don’t think you were doing anything weird – it is just a really hard skill that is not totally intuitive to the dogs. All of the tunnel sends involve turning towards you and the threadle sends involve turning away… which is just plain weird LOL!
I think you can start with her facing the entry more so she sees the entry while turning away. You can almost be on a 90 degree angle to the entry (or less) so the entry is very visible and she doesn’t have to do a full u-turn away from you. When she gets that, you can easily build up to the hander angles. You will see the lightbulb go on and she will nail it every time 🙂She did really well on the combos!!! Her commitment and turning looks great, and your connection was great too!!
>>Throwing that toy away from her was a mindblower.>>
Yes 🙂 And that is why we do it in this game, so the pups can learn the impulse control and have something fun to focus on instead (the barrel wraps). She did a lovely job with the barrel wraps even with the toy on the ground1
>>I got the feeling that she was getting annoyed at the collar holds.>>
I don’t know if she was annoyed! Maybe a little judgey, but not annoyed LOL! She was starting to look at you (like at 1:12) after the toy landed, like she was saying: got it, let’s do it! Her only error in terms of going to the toy after that point was when you said “ok”. So she might have thought it was the release to get the toy (so perhaps it was not an error :))
You can definitely keep playing these, adding in the decel and pivots rather than the drive to the toy on each rep (you can have a 2nd toy stuffed in a pocket to reward those).
Great job on these! Stay warm 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
I think he is doing really well with the tunnel understanding here, no problem finding the entry! Yay!One suggestion:
To attach the verbal fully, he needs to hear it before you and he start moving… which means he needs to wear a collar. In this session, the arm and your footstep was wet he was responding to, so the verbal might not be salient. So you would hold the collar, start the verbal… then let him go when he is looking at the correct tunnel entry.You were able to move pretty far back from the entry, which is great! When you are at the tunnel exit, you can alternate “tunnel” sending to t he entry right in front of him, with the ‘kiss’ threadles.
And stay in motion on all of them, especially the double whammy: be moving forward so you don’t end up facing him or rotated.Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyI think he was only hitting when you got boisterous on the reinforcement, so you can be quieter when you place the reward then get boisterous after he arrives at it 🙂
Hi!
>>I tried to keep my feet facing forward, but then it looks like I don’t end up turning my upper body as much. should I focus on my feet or my body being turned toward him for the backside slice connection or ????
I think the main thing is to NOT have your feet turning to the entry barrel when working on the parallel path, so you can lay a line on the ground to keep moving directly forward. And then put some connection on top of that – he won’t need SUPER connection, just enough to make it clear. You were generally good with moving straight up the line:
There is a very subtle step to the backside happening on some of the reps, and also on some reps you were converging in a bit to the barrel. So having a line on the ground will keep your line of motion even more precise.
There was also a bit of a different positional cue here – when you were moving to the center of the bar, it was clearer to him that it was a backside and that is all fine for now. When you did the front sides, you were moving away from the parallel path a tiny bit (this was good!) and he read them all pretty well. His only question was at :38 when he was in a stay, and there was not a lot of room after the release so there was a tiny bit of convergence and he went to the backside. He did not have that question when he was on the other side and when there was no convergence.Overall, this is going well! So don’t try to exaggerate the connection too much, and on these parallel lines you can keep your feet moving forward as you go to the center of the bar.
Great job!!
TracyHi!
>>So I thought I’d show you this mixed bag of tunnel work. Mistakes were made.
Thank you for leaving this stuff in and talking about it. Mistakes were NOT made… it is more like we got to learn a it more about Georgie, and that is great! We need to figure out these teenagers and sessions like this are actually very helpful (although I am sure you were surprised and frustrated).
>>FYI, she’s my first border collie.
BCs can be, um, different LOL! And yes, I have seen BCs do everything she did here and that includes biting the tunnels LOL!
>>There was biting of the tunnel, nipping at me, and lots of barking. I was umm, surprised. >>>
Do you have video of any of that to show? It was not really happening in the link here. When was the tunnel biting or momma biting happening – when you were trying to line her up? I am curious to see it so I can help figure out why she was doing it and how to help her. It is generally an arousal/frustration behavior, and actually pretty normal (so don’t freak out or anything LOL!)
The teaching of the tunnel part if the easy part – so mainly what I see going on here was that the value of the tunnel (running, FUN! And also WORK because BCs love to work) and the value of the MM were both SUPER high. And the value of lining up at your side? Not as high even though the cookies in your hand might have been identical to the ones in the MM (dogs can be strange like that LOL!). The MM is paired with running and work, so it might have a higher motivation level.
I am actually excited that she showed us this now, rather than in a year or something when you are starting to trial. It helps us do some training and frustration reduction/arousal management.
So I think we can use this tunnel-training construct to work on the arousal management and frustration reduction for those moments when she is NOT being asked to work work work (your girl likes the action of working :))
Yes, have a collar or harness on her, but introduce it separately during some simple tugging or shaping with you, so she doesn’t pay much attention to it.
Then when you go to train the tunnel, it will be on and she will barely notice it.
You can develop a loop of behavior:
Line up at your side for either SUPER high value reinforcement (cheese or something different and very motivating) – gentle collar touch – into the tunnel to the MM, then back to you for a tug game. One cycle.Then, in between each rep, I suggest you move a little away from the tunnel and play the pattern game from the resilience games. It is fabulous for arousal management! And then after a couple of reps of that… back to the little loop of line up for cheese, tunnel, MM, tugging.
Let me know if that makes sense! I am excited to see more :) Tracy
