Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi! Hope you are having a great vacation!
This was a really good session with 2 big takeaways:
– she is getting more powerful and centering herself really well over the jumps. She is no longer landing as short to the jumps and getting closer to a centered arc. Super!
– she has trouble organizing with power for bar 1 with the moving target, so we can isolate that for her! The other bar on jump 1 was at :06 and I think she was too close to the bar in her setup position (looks like she hit it on when she lifted her front feet up).Two ways to proceed:
– with the stationary target, flatten then angles by another inch or so 🙂– let’s isolate the takeoff on the moving target. There are two ways to do this. We can set her up close to just one jump, start dragging the target, then release. If she doesn’t touch the bar: BIG PARTY! If she does touch the bar, give her a low value treat like a cheerio 🙂 You can start with the bar really low to get success then built it up – when she can do it at 12 or 14 inches on one jump, we can add the moving target back to the zig zag grid. The other option is to use your plank: as you and Mo are moving to the plank, you can be dragging the target. Ask her to sit on the plank while the target is moving. That might be challenging! But it will get her thinking about her hind end 🙂
Great job here!!! Have fun!
TracyHi!
>>I only did one direction because I was really just trying to NOT be so exciting on release… failed several times
Ha! You were really good!!
Wing to board:
He was totally on fire! When starting with the wing, he probably needed you to be standing in position near the jump like you did at 1:10 and sending to the wing, so you can be right there and not moving much to cue the sit, to get things rolling. When he did remember the game after the rep at 1:10 he was just about perfect! Then you were able to add more motion, with the reps at 2:01 and after that all looking really good. So on the next session, you can start the way you started at 1:10, then add more motion as he gets warmed up. If things go as well astray did here, you can move to the backside slices in the session after that.His form on the zig zags looked good and also was consistent, which means he is feeling very comfy with it. He is also using his hind end better, and not rotating it. He was hilarious when you were done but he did one more LOL!! Since this went well, on the next session, start with the angle you used here for a warm up rep or two, then tighten it more. If he is fine with that: in the following session, open up the angle a bit and do the backsides 🙂
>>Not quite sure why that MM isn’t pulling his vision as much as I would expect! There seems to still be a fair amount of looking at me both on zig zag and the organization video above.
I think on the zig zags, you can click the MM sooner, as soon as you see his back feet hit the ground between 1 and 2. That will both mark the moment of organization and be nice & early so he doesn’t look at you.
I think with the organizers, he will look at you as a way to get into the sit (looking at the MM too much ended up with no sits LOL!). When we get to the fading, he will be looking forward more.Great job! Let me know how the next sessions go!
TracyHi!
This was definitely a harder session for him! And that is fine, it is a really hard grid when it gets this flat. He was having some trouble sorting out how to do this independently, especially when he was on your right and had to shift away from you to get jump 1. For the next session, if he is on your right, have him on the other side of jump 2 so he is jumping to his left (towards you over 1) rather than to his right away from you over 1. And same if he is one your left: let him jump to his right over the first jump (towards you) rather than away from you to his right.When you added handling, it definitely helped him out but it was still hard work with some added between jumps 2 and 3. So, on the next session, we can help him out by opening things up by maybe 1 inch between 1 and 2, and 2 inches between 2 and 3 so it is slightly less flat and he can do it more independently. You can Lead out and place the toy so he figures it out without you.
If he still thinks it is really hard, you can back chain it and start him in the middle, next to jump 2, where he would land from 1 and ask for jumps 2 and 3 only (with you at the end with the reward on the ground). If that goes well, you can start him at 1 and try for all 3 – I think he can do all that in 1 session.>>Looks to me like the slip in the last video was due to him jumping while he was turning – following reps, he finished the turn and then loaded up to jump>>
Yes – he was going fast and didn’t quite get his hind end set up on that first rep. I was glad to see him make better decisions after that!
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
It was a little hard to see from the angle, but I think he added a stride in between the bars on most reps (it looks like he had really nice bounces at 4:10, 5:14 and 6:04). Looking back to the previous session where he was bouncing more, we can try to replicate the distance between the bars to get the bouncing going again. I couldn’t quite tell here wha the distance was, but it is also possible that you can get the bounce form if you can be more on the line where the 2 wings meet, rather than on the line to the outer wing which presents a longer distance. He might not be able to fully see you between the uprights, but that is fine 🙂He definitely liked the ball! And the toy and the ball both kept his head down, but I think because the type and placement was changing throughout the session, he was thinking more about where to look and where to go, so he was not thinking as much about the hind end form – that could be the other reason he was adding strides. So you can use the ball, but have it placed on the ground before you release him into the normal zig zags, or if you are doing backsides: hold his collar while you toss the ball to position, then send him to the backside to start the grid after the ball has fully landing and stopped rolling 🙂 Making the reinforcement ultra predictable will allow him to focus more on the form and less on where the toy might be. Let me know if that makes sense!
Nice work here! Fingers crossed you don’t get a ton of rain!
TracyHi!
Well, there was no staying dry today but I think the rain is mostly stopped. Now it is just wind wind wind. Fingers crossed it ends SOON!
He is looking SNAPPY on those tight sits – note how he is tucking his hind end under him. I bet he has abs of steel right now!
I like how the MM is helping him to be straight and NOT turn his head up to you. Sure, there is a little bit of momma-looking but not too much, and your timing with the MM was really strong! Only one sorta-sit got clicked LOL!
Onwards to the bar! My only suggestion for when adding the bar is to move the MM around the wing a little more, so he can jump, land, and take one more stride to the MM.
Great job here!! Let me know how he does with the bar!
TracyHi!
>>I felt slightly uncoordinated and not super sure where all my parts should be at any point in time.
All your parts LOL!!
If you were handling these as backside circle wraps without the sits, you would be cuing the backside by tucking into where the wing meets the bar (so he can see the wing) and facing forward – as he rounds the wing, you would continue going forward, no rotation to the landing spot.
So – the organizers version is handled the same way except more slowly, so he can get into the sit. You will show the wing, and stay in the position facing the direction you will be going after he lands – but let him get into the sit with you staying there (facing the takeoff spot). Then when he sits, you release and move forward as if handling the rest of the wrap (because you are indeed handling the rest of the wrap :))
You were doing a full post turn to face the landing side, which we can take out so you face forward the whole time – that way he learns to organize even with countermotion. Be sure you don’t block the wing – you were over helping by stepping past the wing, and he doesn’t need that 🙂 Your position on the last 2 reps were correct in terms of showing him the wing, now we can fade out the rotation.
Eventually we will add more of your motion to it, but for now you can stop in the position where the wing & bar meet til he sits.
He is doing really well with the organization side of it, so you can fade out feeding him in the sit position – instead, you can go to releasing then rewarding in the target bowl or tossing the reward like you were doing after 1:00.
Great job! Let me know if the ideas on where to put all your parts make sense :)
Tracy
Hi!
>>ps, have you read The Art Of Racing In The Rain?
I haven’t read it although I feel like today’s US Open is definitely a lot of racing in the rain!
She did really well with her organizers here! Super nice! She is getting stronger and stronger about looking forward especially as she jumps. You can leave the MM on the outer edge of the wing so she lands and comes around the wing for a stride or two, no need to put it on the harder angle that you had it on for the last few reps – she was confused about going past the organizer again 🙂
She lost form a bit on the last 2 reps (left leg off on the 2nd to last rep, right knee pushed out a little on the last rep) – my guess is it was just fatigue. These games are a lot more tiring than the look to use humans 🙂 So , limit to 4 reps on each side so she never gets into the fatigue zone and can maintain form.
Since she did so well here, you can move to the backside wraps! Great job!
TracyHi!
The threadle wraps are hard indeed! When you faced her with your feet facing her (like a lap turn) she was able to threadle wrap but getting to the foot rotation on a full course is really hard. Ideally we want your feet to keep moving forward rather than rotate to her, which is what you did at :29! But she read it as a slice at :29 and 30 because you then turned your feet to the bar, which is the threadle slice cue. Threadles are tricky!
For the wraps, you can try to pull your shoulders and hand cue away from the line, towards the wall, to pul her in, then flip her back out while your feet keep moving forward. And to make threadle slices different, you can do what you did at :29 – moving forward and then stepping to the bar.
The Push wraps were super! The last one did look like a push wrap, you were tucked in behind the wing then moved forward the same way you would for the wrap, so she was correct. To get the German turn and slice, you can push to the backside as you move towards the center of the bar on the landing side, then slide away towards the slice exit wing.
Let me know if that makes sense! Nice work here!
TracyHi! We are currently trying to outrun the rain here and get the outdoor rings finished before it rains. We are 90 minutes ahead of schedule… fingers crossed! The wind has really picked up….
>>I’ve been trying to think of how to change the setup to help him figure out the ZigZags starting off his right and after rewatching a bunch of the videos I wondered if I made the distance between the 2 jumps smaller if that would help so…. instead of wing in the middle I just used a couple of stanchions. I think it helped.
I think the setup worked really well! He did super well for 5 of the 6 reps, and the one rep with a question was fine too 🙂 It was a legit question LOL!
>>I should’ve stopped at 5 reps but just had to do one more – bad trainer, it was a bridge too far
>>I think I need to stop at 5 reps all the time – no matter what.>I don’t think the number of reps was a problem – it was more that he needed to see the same setup several times instead of it changing each time. So it might be best to start with the setup he saw in the previous session, and tighten it once only for the session so he can find his rhythm and power.
>>Should/can I use this setup for both sides? Or should I stick with the “harder” setup with the wing in the middle for him when he’s coming off his left first?
The setup worked well, and to make the session efficient you can use it on both sides. You might want to do a slightly easier angle for the right side reps then make it a little harder for the left side reps, or only tackle on side per session.
>>Jumps are at 6″, seems like a good height for this?
Yes, I think that is a great height for him here.
>>What would you suggest for going forward from here…..do more off his right than his left for awhile as that’s the side he’s less comfortable on to help him get more comfortable? Or continue to work both sides about the same amount and just let them both progress at however they progress?>>
I would do an equal # of reps on each side, to keep him balanced because it is quite a workout! You can make the left side reps a little harder in terms of the angles and the right side reps a little bit easier.
>>Thoughts on how often….I’m kinda thinking 2 sessions of 5 reps with a break in between – and I’m going to count! and stop! 2 or 3 times a week.>>
So approximately 10 reps, 2 or 3 times a week? That should be great, unless he is doing a lot of other jumping. We just don’t want to put too much jumping into his world 🙂
>>And too funny but I was thinking the same thing about the Organizers to the Plank……he’s really getting focused on looking at my hand – the POWER of the placement of reward especially with a foodie >>
Poor starving dog haha! Plus, they spend much of their lives looking at our hands for food, so it is pretty natural 🙂

>>I played with this some yesterday and really had to break all the pieces down. No food/hand, he couldn’t stop on the platform, so put the MM right in front of the platform to get the stop and then slowly worked it around the wing a little bit. Didn’t even try to add any speed…… Plan to see how he does later today with ability to stop on the platform with no speed coming in and if that’s good then we’ll give it try with the wing. Video later, I hope>>You can also start with the food in your hand, then let him see you drop it in the bowl for a rep or two or 3. Then you can start with it in the bowl, and use hand cues as if you are holding treats to get the sit. That might brea it down and help him get the sit but look at the magical cookie bowl.
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
This went really well! I am happy with how well she is getting into the sit and waiting for release. Good girl!
Her head position was better when the cookie was already in the bowl on a few reps, rather than waiting for you to drop it into the bowl 🙂 So you can have it already in the bowl before you start each rep. That way you can release sooner: as soon as she gets into the sit, you can release her to come over the bar and get the cookie in the bowl. You can be moving the whole time, slowly, even if you get past the reward bowl 🙂You can also add tugging in between reps, to get more arousal – that challenges her to work the skill even when she is a bit wilder 🙂
Based on how well she did here – if the next session goes well too, with more of your motion, you can add in the backside slices too!
Great job 🙂
TracyThank you for all the different angles, I love obsessing on that 🙂
The first 2 reps looked easy but when I watched from the side, they were NOT easy and he was working pretty hard. Good boy! When things got tighter, he was sorting out how to handle his power and was doing a bit of “bicycle” action on his front feet on the 2nd part of the grid. On the last rep he added the stride in the first bounce, but either he was tired or he was trying to find an answer to the puzzle, or both.
But no worries, he is a gifted athlete and will sort it out – a couple of ideas for you.
You can do one more session with 4 or 5 reps on the 5 foot bars and the angles where they were when you started, staying the same for the whole session, so he gets his rhythm back. If that goes well, the next session can be approached like this:
* You can make the first interval tighter (jumps 1 and 2) so he organizes with more challenge on the first interval only, and can maintain form in the 2nd interval because it is a little more open (but still plenty challenging :))
If that goes well, you can:
* add a slightly tighter second interval, but start him at jump 2 so he only has to jump the bars of 2 and 3 to show him the organization of that gap.Let me know if that makes sense, and how it goes!!!
TracyGood morning!
>>I am going on vacation (without dogs, gasp!!)
What is this vacation of which you speak? I think I do not know that word. LOL!
She was actually well-organized on that sit-free first rep! That is what the fading reps will look like 🙂
Overall, she was doing well with her hind end, and I was especially happy with her work on your right side (that is her harder side, yes?)
But yes, she probably needed a sit arm up/refresher at the beginning because she was ON FIRE lol!!
>>She was starting to get into her slow-motion sit thing (battles we’ve fought on the start-line)
I think the toy seems to make her stalky when asking for the sit – things go better when she is working for charcuterie. For the fast, tight sits with a toy present, you can work that with the motion override game: have a toy out straight ahead, 20 feet away, start walking towards it and cue a sit (but be pretty far from it to start so she doesn’t freeze like the Border Collie she is LOL!
But for the start line, just ask her for the stay and let her freeze in position of her choosing, as long as she freezes 🙂
To work for cheese, I think it might work best to have a bowl or something more visible past the wing so that she doesn’t turn to look at the magic cheese hand. That might be the best setup: cheese bowl waiting for cheese placement on the outer edge of the wing, and the toy in our hand or pocket for play in between reps to keep her pumped up.
So for the next session, do a warm up or two on the plank with the cheese bowl, then add the motion back in. And I think we will be able to get the backside wraps going too, within a session or two.
Great job!!! Enjoy your vacation if you don’t have a chance to post before you leave!
TracyGood morning! Your solution with the plank worked great!
First video: really good slice session! You got the sit cues out earlier and he also figured out the framework so he was able to sit then take off from the sit without putting his front feet down. He needed the same progression on the other side but then figured it out there too and looked really good!
He was looking up at you over the bar, because you were exciting on the release 🙂 Try to be less exciting LOL and release then immediately trigger the MM. If he likes the beep, you can release and hit it at the same time, so he jumps while looking at the MM and not at you – and try not to praise until after he arrives at the MM 🙂
So the next step would be getting him looking at the MM more, and also having you stay in motion the whole time (slowly at first, then more and more :)) You can add in a wing wrap before it too, sending him to it and then slowly walking through the serp position while still cuing the sit and release to the MM.
One wraps – what a good boy sitting on the plank as soon as you put it down <3
For the wing wraps, on the first part when he was getting onto the plank on your left, the line up worked better when you sent him to his left around the wing so he had a straight approach to the plank.
I think he is organizing really well , on both sides - he is a big, young dog and look at how well he was getting himself into a nice tight sit! YEAH!!! Happy dance!
And listen to the rep at 1:18, where you can here him sliding into the decel and sit for a powerful takeoff. SUPER!When he was on your right in the 2nd half of the session, you had the MM involved for the reinforcement. That was great, so add that to the left side too. As with the slices - you can be less exciting until after he gets to the MM, so he focuses more on that and not on you. And when he is eating the treats? That is when you can be more exciting LOL!
I think you can add ore of your motion into it, walking a little faster into the wrap position, and doing the FC faster after the release.
And you can also begin to add the backside wraps too!
Wonderful job here! Keep me posted!
TracyHi!
He did really well here, looks like the grass footing was really good!
The first couple of reps were easy peasy for him – and happily the first rep on the flatter angles looked the same in terms of form, which is GREAT! He appeared to acknowledge it as flatter but did not lose form at all. You were on the other side on the last rep – he seemed a bit more “forward” on the first jump (more pull from the front and less push from the rear) but then the same form for jumps 2 and 3. My guess is the slight change in your position make him think a bit but that is fine 🙂If you still have it set up, try starting at this angle again, working both sides, then flatten it out a tiny bit more – it is a game of inches now, so maybe just two inches flatter for the next level of challenge.
Great job! I hope it is drying out for you!
TracyHi! The camera angle was great!
I agree, he did REALLY well here! He had a big slip on the first rep as he went to the backside wing: he slipped, rotated, added a stride… it was a wild ride! I am not sure if he was surprised by the backside and didn’t organize, or the ground was slippery, or both. We will watch the first rep and see how he does in future sessions.Most dogs would have been concerned about it and the rest of the session would have been more careful with added strides. But he is a resilient dude – no worries about the big slip, he was perfect on all the other reps. Impressive!
I was going to give a more on each rep but they were all perfect 🙂 So… you can add more of your speed! Send to the backside, and jog! And over the course of a few sessions, build up to a run and see how he goes. For safety, make the first rep of each session a slower one so he can find his footing and get organized, then you can add more speed.
Great job!! Let me know how he does with more speed!Tracy
