Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi!
>>couple questions as I just checked out the organizer on the slice video! So it is ok for the dog to organize on the board then before jumping the bar, place feet on the ground?
Ideally no, they go from the board directly over the bar, but sometimes they do put their front feet on the ground in the early stages, and if they don’t fix it themselves then you can move the plank in closer to the bar.
>>and because I couldn’t quite hear… it is tell the dog sit on the organizer and just a release to the reward, no jump command.
Yes, that is correct – I use a sit verbal and a release and some body language in these early stages 🙂
>>also forgot to tell you Torrin is hovering at or just below 22 inches. No official measurements yet!>>
Big dude! Nice size for jumping 20″!!!!
Tracy
Thanks, it works! Yay!
>>They are more fun than I thought they would be because we can just go out for a few minutes and I feel like I’m contributing to better jumping skills!>>
I also like these – silly fun to play and definitely helps jumping skills!!
This was an interesting session indeed, there were a couple of things happening. I think he did REALLY well overall. You did a great job with the line ups, and I think he can stay at the 4 foot bars for now. When he did do the bounces, he looked GREAT! So now it is a matter of helping him produce the striding consistently. Here are some ideas for you to help him find his striding:
– we have a club here at Agility U called “Team Fake Chill” #TeamFakeChill. I am a founding member: basically, for those of us that like to run fast and yell loud, it is a club that encourages us to pretend we are calm and move slowly – to fake that we are chill (because we are not chill hahaha). I officially invite you to join the Team Fake Chill club LOL!!
On the reps where he had trouble, you were moving too fast and being very exciting, so he couldn’t think about the precision striding required for this particular setup. For example, on the first rep, you were soooo exciting and fast moving that he was matching that by going fast but not striding properly.Compare it to the 2nd rep, you were more chill, he was able to stride better. Yay! And compare again to rep 6 at 2:36 when you were facing him, released fast, then moved backwards – he added a stride because you were facing him (collection cue).
So you can fake your chill by trusting his stay, leading out further (be at least 6 feet past jump 2 before the release, otherwise he is close to landing on the toy as he is judging takeoff for 2), facing forward, gently placing the end of the toy on the ground, then calmy releasing and walking forward, dragging the toy. I don’t know about you, but this requires me to totally pretend I am calm and chill because I am definitely not naturally this way 🙂 But fake chill will let him think about the striding and not rush to get to you.
– I also think that he is a little stronger bouncing left to right (when his left shoulder is next to the wing at the start) than right to left (right shoulder next to the wing at the start. So to even it out, leave the angles of the jumps a little more open/less flat . I think the distance/angle you had at 1:23 was a good one, so you can use that angle and leave it there for a full session. He was able to bounce it nicely left to right. That can help him sort out the striding in both directions.
– I also think he had a lot to process in terms of distractions here (people talking, etc) and then when you got to the really flat angles at about 2:57, he couldn’t process the angles, your speed and the distractions (which is why you got the running past the jumps or added strides). You were smart to try to reduce the angle! So if the environment is really busy, you can make the angles easier for now, and that will totally help!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>.We seem to be seeing tunnels under the DW at every trial these days so thought I’d start with this one. >>
Ain’t that the truth!!! It is a good skill to work!
Yes, the opening set up was hard here with the DW – You were stationary and I think you released with “OK” so he was correct to take the obstacle between him and you (definitely a good place for a reset cookie!)
A tunnel verbal would be a more useful release here, and releasing while you are in motion will help too (stopping for the release draws his focus to you) – he got it on the 2nd rep when you put the reward at the tunnel, but the obstacle name will help strengthen the release here and more importantly, will help him find it in context like at :53 after the wrap.
He found the jump after the tunnel under the DW really well, and wrapped well too especially with the other tunnel straight out ahead!!
The Go to the last jump was easy too. Super!
The next thing to do would be to roll the dog walk more to the center of things, so you can do this sequence while staying on the same side of the DW as the tunnel entry. I am not sure this particular DW moves all that easily, but it would be fun to try it!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyOh wow, I watched every episode of This Is Us and never knew there were words! Thanks for sending!
>>I was watching my videos and I think I need to be tucked into the wing on the backside wrap. I was pretty far off the line. But, I was really pleased with Sprite.
Yes, if you are ahead, you can tuck in more to show the wing and wait for her to get past you. I felt she really had no questions – because a baby dog will ask ALL the questions if you are unclear LOL!
>>I think the threadle wrap is technically a flick, correct?
The OMD people called it a flick but they also recommended a backwards step/weight shift back as part of the cue. This might have changed in recent years as things evolved, but I prefer to not have people step back or even shift their weight back.
>>I’ll play with hand shaking to get her attention and having it lower. Then decide which hand to use. Yes, I think the turn away and then back will be helpful.
The dogs respond really well to the shoulders, so if she ends up on the front side of the jump: freeze for a moment and see where your shoulders are pointing (probably to the front of the jump LOL!)
>> Also, I need to decel and not be ahead of the jump wing. I’ll work on that.
I think you will be able to get ahead of the wing, if you show the cues as she is coming over the jump before it.
>>I sent Gemma 30 ft from a jump to the weaves the other day. She nailed entrances on both sides. Sprite just started 12 in line. I’ll leave that skill once she’s more confident.
YEAH GEMMA!!!! and it is a good reminder of how an adult dog has so many layers of skills that the baby dogs do not yet have. Doing 12 in line is perfect for Sprite at this stage, no need to push harder than that 🙂
Tracy
Good morning! This was a really interesting session to watch, she did really well – I love watching dogs sort things out. And that broken stay moment when she sat between 1 and 2 was hilarious LOL! Good girl!
>>Maybe a little fatigue? She had been running with her noodle brother who is cheering for her in the background before this was filmed.>>
Probably not, because she only added the stride going right to left. But if she was running around a lot, then maybe shorten that before the next session and we can compare.
I think what you were seeing was just processing – sensorimotor integration, according to my current list of geek terms LOL!! Basically – there was a LOT going on and she was trying to process all the input and translate that to motor tasks. She was successful in many ways, and was still experimenting in other ways. This is good! She is on the right track!!!
She was adding indeed a stride on the right to left reps, but even with the extra stride I felt her form was more organized and consistent on those (except for the rep at :27 where she didn’t power through 1 and landed on all four feet). She did *not* add a stride and bounced all of the left to right reps… but she was definitely sorting out her organization because she basically did something a little different on each rep with her front or rear. So interesting to watch – and I think it was more about the toy placement there.
One thing I know about these mixes with whippet in them: you are not going to see what happened in your training session until your next training session, today or tomorrow. I have seen that consistently with my 1/4 whippet, my 1/2 whippet, and now my full whippet. They have really good initial sessions, but when I come back to the skill in the next session? They have cemented the learning and can produce a lovely version of the finished product. It is so strange to me, but I have learned to just let it happen LOL!!!! It just happened with my 14 week old puppy’s sit stay. Decent first session, not sure what he really learned or understood, but lots of rewards for sits and baby stays. Next session? Able to sit on a verbal cue and hold it while I walk across the room. What the heck? LOL! Pointies… they are different.
So do I think she will look entirely different in the next session? Yes! She’s probably going to be all like “I’ve got this, human, let’s go.”
But also you can do a couple of things to help her out:
– lead out further, so when she is organizing for the 2nd jump, the toy on the ground is further past it. On these reps, especially going left to right, the toy was in the landing spot of 2 when she was landing from 1 which might be why she was organizing differently each time. So lead out 10 feet past jump 2, start dragging the toy, then release and see how she does. She seemed highly motivated for both toys, so I don’t think it was a toy value question as much as it was a processing question.
– looking at her in comparison to the jump, she is smaller than I thought she was! I love her size 🙂 But the jump height is a little high for now, so lower it to 4″ which should put it at carpal-height, and give her a little less distance between the jumps – you can replace one of the inner wings with a wingless upright to achieve a shorter distance without necessarily changing the angles.
Great job here! Let me know what you think! Can’t wait to see the next session!
TracyHi!
She definitely didn’t look tired from her training class! She did well here for sure and we got useful info about where she wants to look.She was all about watching the cookie hand here, so she was trying to sit facing you a bit more. She had some creative offerings to the challenge of being organized on the plank AND watch the cookie LOL! I think that is what you were seeing especially on your right. I am not sure it is a side preference in terms of strength or weakness, as much as it is a reflection of learning history on your right versus your left as you mentioned.
So since she is doing well on your left, you can add more motion. And since she is not as sure on your right – use less motion and help her more. You can be more stationary when she in your right (and add in more heeling games and motion override on your right as well, to help balance the learning history :))
>>I did add the food bowl as a target, but she didn’t pay much attention to it, I’m not sure it was in the right spot? >>
It was in the right spot. I think she was still getting enough cookies from your hands and also wathcing your hands deliver cookies to the floor that she didn’t feel it was efficient to watch the cookie bowl 🙂 But getting her to NOT look at your hands will help a whole lot, so a couple of ideas:
You can try having the cookie in the bowl before you start the rep (or use a Manners Minder if the cookie needs protection from Mochi or the cats haha). That way there is nothing in your hands to look at, and you can give the cues and the reward for the good sit would be the release from it, to get the cookie in the bowl after going around the wing.
Also, if you were training with food before she had eaten dinner… try training after she eats dinner. That allows her to think about her “work” more because she is not “starving” LOL!! Cats of course are always starving.
The other option is to use a toy on the ground instead of a cookie bowl – the session would have the same structure or nothing in your hands, she hops on the plank and sits, you release her to go around the wing to get the toy. A toy might be more stimulating as something to look at!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>haha… swallow before the next rep?? isn’t that part of the challenge?>>
HA! For dogs that don’t love food rewards, I make sure they swallow so they don’t spit it out. For dogs that seem to LOVE food, I make sure they swallow so they aren’t dividing their attention between the task and the tasty snack in their mouth LOL!!
He did a terrific job with his zig zags!!!
>> I wasn’t exactly sure what he would need for a bounce but we got it on the first try. Currently the wings are slightly overlapped but maybe next session I will give it a go with them just touching.
The setup you had here worked nicely, but the wings touching end-to-end should work too. How tall is he?
>> I think the first couple reps he seems to put too much effort into that second jump but I think it improved through the session.>>
What you were seeing there on those reps when he was on your right side at the beginning and then later on at the end, was a rotation of his hind end over the 2nd jump. When you watch it in slow motion, you will see his right hind rotating under his body on those reps, and his left hind rotating outside his body. Really interesting! That is why he is getting a little more lift over that 2nd bar at the beginning and at the end. Basically – it is an organization skill when he is in your right and he is jumping left to right.
When he was on your left and jumping right to left – he was more organized! every first rep at about :22, he had a tiny bit of rotation then I didn’t see it on the other reps like at :28 and after when he was on your left.
Also on those reps on your left, he was stepping right into the setup and not tapping his front feet on the ground before the 1st jump – so either he was feeling more powerful, or he was a tiny bit clsoer to the first jump, or both LOL! That rep at :28 and the one after it – those were both GREAT!!!
If you feel like obsessing on it a little, you can play it slow motion on Youtube by clicking on the “settings” icon at the bottom of the video – you will see a playback speed choice in the drop down that comes up.
So keep the angles where they are for now, and I think put the bars down to 6 inches for one session to see if he sorts out the rotation when he is on your right. It is normal to see a side preference at this stage and the dogs sort themselves out in the next session or two.
And before the next zig zag session, do some of the organizers to the jump on the slices – that will specifically outline how to use his rear on the slice lines like the zig zags, and will help him stay balanced and not rotate.
>> Of course it did take me way too many reps to realize he still had on his hunting jacket… oh well he didn’t seem to mind.
I thought he looked great in his jacket! And I agree, he didn’t seem to mind 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>I think with the leading with his head it was a combination of both… too much repetition, and some fatigue. Also I think this is a hard exercise for him so it “wears his brain out” quicker than some of the others. We also did this about 8:00 last night just before we went home and even though he’s gotten to be very comfortable hanging at the Training Center for the day (sleeps a lot) it does still wear him out a bit and I need to remember that. It’s not like being at home all day.>>
Yes, it is possible that we were seeing some fatigue and depletion. Being ‘at work’ all day can definitely leave less bandwidth for training at the end of the day.
Looking at the moving target game – he 1000% seemed to like chasing the moving target LOL! And the camera angle was so fun, with this flying ears and ultra cuteness!
He also did perfectly when you added the jump. And his stay was great, even when the toy was moving before the release. Since he was so brilliant: onwards to adding the moving target to the zig zag jumping games! You can start by moving it after the release, then if he retrains his organization you can start moving it before the release. It can probably al happen in one session unless he starts to ask questions.
Great job!!!!
TracyGood morning!
I think part of the link is missing, I can’t get it to come up to a video. I tried to dig around your youtube page to find it, but it is probably unlisted. Can you repost the link? Thanks!!
TracyHi!
Great lyrics! Love it!!!! What song is it from?And I am happy to provide support. Agility can be challenging in that people provide “advice” in a way that is decidedly NOT helpful and can really undermine confidence. When people say stuff to me, I just smile, say “thanks!” and walk away. No need to discuss anything.
Hooray for a trip to the park! She did GREAT!!!! Baby girl is growing up!!!! She was super focused and her skills are looking strong!
Looking at the threadle wrap – a lot of the dogs like the added ‘drama’ of turning our shoulders away then flipping them back. I do this with 2 hands and this shoulder-pull drama is what I do with Voodoo in the demos. And if you remember, we did it with Levy in the live class (the whippety dog) and he did really well with it. Just using the arm and not the shoulder turn requires the dogs to override where our shoulders/chest are pointing…. which is to the front side of the jump. You were adding some of the shoulder turn away at 1:42, 1:46 and she instantly got it! And you were doing it a bit after the BC at 2:16 and 2:25, and she got those too! Looked awesome!!!!
>>Sprite is scoping out jumps…>>
This is a good thing with a young dog! She was just telling you where your shoulders were pointing.
You can also work the threadle wrap on a wing without the bar – the bar has a TON of value as a front side of the jump, so taking the bar out of the picture can help sort out the cues and get her doing it, without the distraction of the bar.
And even if it goes wrong, don’t mark the errors with any no markers or show any frustration, as it depletes her confidence and we want her feeling pumped up about herself 🙂The backside circle wraps were easy peasy and she was SUPER independent on those! NICE commitment! Nice turns!
Threadle slices looked great 🙂 Just remember to keep supporting her line and moving across the bar like you did at :27 and :35. Try not to pull away from the threadle jump too soon, like at :20 because that is when she starts asking questions. She is definitely processing a LOT on the jumping here coming in after the blind so you can lower the bar for a session or two so she can sort out her footwork on the challenging slices.
Her german turn/backside pushes looked great! You can even start the BC sooner – as soon as you see her rounding the entry wing and looking at the bar, you can do the BC. It is REALLY fun to see how well these skills are developing!!!! Both the push to slice and push to wrap look really polished and independent!!!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Glad to see you here!!
yes, these short sequences will provide plenty of options for skills work!!!!!You can upload your videos to Youtube, then copy & paste the link into the Forum here. That is the easiest & quickest way to do it. I am looking forward to your videos!
Tracy
Hi! It was so fun working with you in the seminar! You and Rony Pony looked great!
>>Ronan is in young dog sticky mode and needs quite a bit of support on jumps in certain situations.
That is entirely normal for his age. He is working in a state of ‘divided attention’ meaning his brain has to focus on your handling cues AND sorting out how to do the agility obstacles…and it doesn’t always work out that well. So you can make one of the things easier: either clarify the handling by slowing it down and/or adding more support (which is what you did here in some spots) or lower the jump bars/angle the jumps so the obstacle difficulty is reduced.
>> The blind crosses from Karena were better timed and I struggled with being late and losing connection. >>
Actually, there weren’t really timing issues here – more like a “which cross when and where” question. But the session looked really strong!
Looking at the video:
As you will see, the FCs will only feel on time if they are the better option than the BC. So on seq 1: the FC started on time on the first rep, but was a little late finishing because of all the foot rotation required for that line. The BC turns the handler’s feet to the line sooner, so it is a better choice here than the FC and will feel more on time as well.
Really great connection 5-6!! That is the support he needs right now.2nd run -The blind is easier to finish in this context because there is no foot rotation required to show the correct line. It started at the same time as the FC pretty much, but finished sooner because the footwork shows the line sooner.
Coming past the tunnel – he wasn’t being sticky at :22, you were calling him HARD and the over cue came when he was already past the line to the jump. Good boy! You were clearer at :32 but still got too much handler focus with his name and the here cue – I think all he needed was connection and being closer to the line, like you did at :41 🙂Sequence 2: The cross to the jump was not a late issue, it was a line issue: FC or BC, you were both running on the line to the tunnel entry and then executing the cross. Motion wins out over everything else, so based on your line to the tunnel, he legit thought you were heading to the tunnel.
At :48, the front was not necessarily late, but it was on the line to the tunnel so he was jumping towards the tunnel. I like the FC as the choice here as it turns your feet to the jump sooner than the BC would, but you will want to place the FC on the line to the jump – try to get as close to the jump after the FC as possible and don’t go anywhere near the tunnel.
Same at 1:00 – not the cross was not tooooooo late, yes it can be a tiny bit sooner – but your line was directly to the tunnel so that is where he was heading.
The BC at 1:13 is hard when the line is to the tunnel because there is no foot rotation to tip him off so he was reading the line to the tunnel til after he landed (which is when you showed the connection)
So try it with the FC but with you running towards the jump and I bet he turns super nicely!The blind to the tunnel when you wanted the tunnel at 1:26 and 1:56 looked great and the line then the left verbal to the tunnel at 1:29 looked great too 🙂
The blind there works great because the line of your feet supports the correct obstacle. The FC at 1:40 did not work as well because it turns your feet and ends up finishing later.That is how I decide FC versus BC: as I am moving, which cross will turn my feet towards the correct line sooner? It is the BC a whole lot 🙂 but not always!
And great job getting him to the tunnel with the left verbals!!!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
