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Hi! Hope you had a good weekend!
She did really well here by finding the #1 jump all the different ways 🙂
Sequence 1:
You started her on more if a slice at :20, and that was great! When you release her, you don’t need to push towards jump 2 as much (that is what pushed her to the backside) or pull her in then send out – you can move to the outer wing of 2 and she will find the line.Seq 2 is harder and she is doing really well finding the slice away from the course! NICE! And she is needing less handling to do it: at :21 and :59 you said jump, so she jumped 🙂 It was fun to see her look at the jump and take it when you said jump, so keep being consistent about using the jump verbal release in this context.
Looks like you went back to a bit of “strike a pose” for the threadle to 2! You can keep the the threadle arm out, no need to push back to the #2 jump (that is what caused her to go to the backside at 1:11). By keeping the threadle arm in position and moving to the outer wing of 2, that is her cue to come in and go out to take the #2 jump.
And because it is a really hard skill, you can angle the #2 jump so she sees a better line to the correct side of the jump too as you work on the threadles.
Great job with all the stay rewards too – looks like she was doing a great job with her stays!!
Nice work here!! Let me know what you think!
TracySo you were trial secretary AND you managed to kick *ss, finishing the IAC and winning enough classes to get the IWAC?? WOWZA!!! I bow to you! I think he is liking his 12S height and also all of the skills are coming together!!!
The video looked great!On the front side zig zags, when he was sitting next to the wing jump on the left side of the screen – the wing was moving. I couldn’t see what was causing it but I think he was either close enough that his right hip was hitting it or his front feet were touching the foot of the wing. When he was on the wingless going the other direction, he didn’t touch anything. And when he did the backsides? No problem at all. So he can be a little further from the wing on the front side zig zags 🙂
The backside zig zags were hard for sure but he did a great job! He was really thinking about where to put his feets as he was coming around the wing for the backside approach, then he jumped it powerfully.
>>He had trouble on 1 backside slice at 4in,>>
That was at approx :36 – I think it was an anomaly, not any real trouble. Watch his head as he passes the backside wing: he shakes his head as if there is something in his ear. Maybe a bug in the ear? No worries, it was not a jumping question 🙂
Since he had no trouble with the motion, we can add in motion motion and even harder angles (and eventually taller bars) after the US Open. But he is now in the bubble wrap phase – so you can do some plank or platform organizers but no need to do any real agility 🙂 We will pick things up after the US Open.
Great job here! See you in Florida!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>. I can’t really run yet and I forgot about the backside.You looked really strong here, and not running a lot was actually helpful for her on the challenging lines! No worries about the backside, you would easily be there if you tried for it.
Looking at the video:
She did well with all 3 variations but yes the throwback was the best (because she is a MaxPup alum and we taught that skill ridiculously early to a foot target prop LOL!!) And she was so happy to jump away from the course partially because of the value of the jump skill you were asking for, and partially because she is too inexperienced to understand the value of the full courses LOL! That is part of why I like teaching this skill to young dogs 🙂
You can add in starting her on a bit more of an angle to the jump, and add in releasing with the jump cue too! But overall, looking good 🙂
Slice starts: I think she was a little too close to jump 1 – she was not sure how to stride into it on the first two reps. You can move her back about one stride, so she has more time to make the decision.
Dang look at how well she is turning on 2 (:22 for example) and look at her commitment to the wrap (:32 for example) . And a MASSIVE CLICK/TREAT for you for your connection on the exit of the wrap at :33 – you were way ahead but connected so she could process the info and run really well!! More on processing below 🙂Slicing away from the course was easy for her – the threadle part was hard!! But you sorted it out and the throwbacks looked GREAT! I know you’ve been working on collection and we can really see it coming together here. She was putting in the proper stride before takeoff so she could turn really nicely on the wing on the wraps!
She had a question of not taking the first jump at 1:19 – probably a little too much opposite arm/rotation on the release so she didn’t take the jump, also you said OK not the verbal for the jump (I don’t think she was simply going to the food bowl there) – she figured it out on the next reps but you can definitely fade the “ok” and to the jump verbal. If she struggles to release on the directional, you can start it without a stay: hand in collar, say the directional, then let go. Then move to her next to you but not in a stay or in a sit position – start the verbal then give a little motion if needed. then you can add the stay and release with the directional.
Also, as a young dog, she is definitely not expecting that a threadle would happen on jump 2! She was doing the normal young dog thing of finding a line (this is a good thing!) and by the time she heard the threadle info, it was too late to process. No worries at all, it is not a super important skill. The important skill here was what was happening on jump 1.
>> We’ve forgotten about threadles and I dislike them as I never seem to get it right. After a break I used food bowls to help her. But, I’m walking backwards which needs to stop. I’m pretty sure my position and feet aren’t ideal.>>
The food bowls were definitely helpful! Just be sure to place it further from the last jump when you are running the full line, so she can jump in extension.
Back to threadles: On threadles with sweeter more flowing lines, you can run forward through them. This is not one of those LOL!! This is more of the American-style threadle where the turn is very severe. And on those, foot rotation is highly acceptable!!! We did an experiment with high level experienced masters dogs (national finalists, super experienced handlers) on a course at a seminar last summer: there was a European-style threadle and an American-style threadle (like this one, or the ones we see in AKC Premier or USDAA), For the Euro threadles? The handlers were all easily able to get it by running forward. For the American threadles? Nope, not a single one could get it running forward – we added foot rotation on those, and every single one of the dogs got it, every time, in any context.
So if you need to get her through a crazy tight threadle like this? Turn your feet 🙂
>>Also, I have a friend who constantly tells me Sprite has classic ETO symptoms when she watches our videos. So, it’s getting in my head. >>
Your friend is NOT being helpful at all. Tell the friend to STOP. First of all, “classic” ETO symptoms look like very distinct stutter-stepping, hesitating, flinging. Nothing of the sort is happening here. Also, ETO is just something agility people came up with to describe how a dog processes information, for reasons that are not fully known. It is possible that those dogs have a visual processing issue? If so, we don’t see that til the dogs are 3 or 4 years old anyway. And also there are injuries that cause jumping questions from the dogs.
>>Are you seeing anything concerning?
We know more than ever about how the dogs’ brains process information… and we know more than ever about the adolescent dog brain. With that in mind: I see a typical 21 month old dog processing a whole lot of info and doing a great job! She is still an adolescent, which means her brain is not fully developed yet in terms of the ability to fully handle the multisensory integration and the sensorimotor integration of all the things that happen in agility. This includes everything the brain needs to do, then it has to tell the body, then the body has to do it. All while running really fast.
So sometimes she is trying to figure out which lead to choose when jumping (like on the 2 reps of the slice jumping towards the course (2nd part of exercise 1), that is why she can start a stride or two further from the jump so she has more time to process. Sometimes she is producing GORGEOUS turns on the wraps (which is something she could not do nearly as well a few months ago).
Sometimes when you get way ahead and run fast and she can’t process that and lands on the bar. Oopsie! Too much sensory input and the chase takes over in the brain, leaving no bandwidth for thoughtful jumping organization (every single one of my dogs have done this at the same age that Sprite is now, which is why I don’t go to full height early on and I don’t run too fast when they are baby dogs). For example – I ran the youngsters at a trial yesterday and chose rear crosses in places where I cold have run like mad to get the blind… but the trial was in a new location (indoor barn) with an unfamiliar footing AND I have laryngitis. So with all of that to have to process (new place! New dogs! New footing! Why does mom sound so weird?) I chose to dial back the motion so there was one less thing for them to process -and they were very successful. I ran like mad with the 9 year old dog, because of all the years of experience behind him 🙂
>>She could pick closer takeoff spots when running a straight line.
She is not likely to add strides on straight lines if the cue is all about extension 🙂 It is our role to make sure she has enough bandwidth to process the information to a body and brain that is still changing daily, and process it in time to make an informed jumping decision! Plus, we absolutely have to consider how structure will inform the way each dog moves, which changes the jumping form picture. An Aussie and a BorderWhippet and a Rat Terrier and a Sheltie and a Border Collie and a Papillon… they are all built very differently, and will move differently, and therefore will look different in their jumping efforts. In agility, we see soooooo many BCs and Shelties that we tend to think that all jumping will look like that: well, structure informs jumping so my Papillon will never ever look like a Sheltie. And my Whippet will never look like a BC.
So please tell your friend to stop with the not-helpful ETO remarks. We all bring enough neuroses and catastrophizing and insecurities to training our baby dogs that we don’t need it from outside sources LOL!!!! You are doing everything right: training her understanding with a high rate of reinforcement, isolating her jumping skills, and letting her grow up and mature without pressure on her mind and body. I wish everyone would handle their youngsters like you are!! And since I get to see her a lot no video, I am VERY excited about what she was producing here on these lines!!!
What the future holds in terms of jumping form? We don’t know, for any of our young dogs. But we do know how dogs process information, so we can plan to educate her and deliver information in a way that she will successfully process. Let me know if that makes sense!
Great job here 🙂
TracyGood morning! Hope you had a good weekend!
She did well here, I don’t think you added too much motion. You were slowly walking and that is fine. She needed a couple of reps to figure out to take the jump even when you were rotating, and then she was fine! Be careful not to do tooooooo many reps – by the end she was pretty fatigued (it is harder than it looks for the dogs!) which might be why she was a little less engaged especially on the 2nd to last rep.
>>I felt like when I was doing it she was lining up well, but the video shows her angling herself more than I thought she was.
She was fine with her angling there – partially because the dogs do angle themselves a little on a wrap, and partially because she was watching your food hand because she is SO HUNGRY hahahahaha (ok, maybe not starving but there was nothing else to look at other than the food LOL!) So, we can now add a reward target to this game to help her know where to look – an empty food bowl on the ground, past the exit edge of the wing, so she can finish the wrap and get the cookie without looking at your hands. The head-down position will help the jumping and she will organize herself and watch you less. She will still watch you a little but you will see her looking at the bar more.
That jumpers run was a big bummer, you both ran it really well – on the closing line there was a BIG bang (:42) and then she on the last jump, she was jumping into the fence AND into the person walking by. Poor girl, that was a LOT. The rest was great!
>>Trying to be patient because I’ve been working on this a nano second, but felt a little down today about it>
Understandable! Because you are a science geek like me – Because she is still so young, her brain is not yet fully formed and able to process ALL the things while also process & produce high speed motor patterns… you are going to see some bars in the early stages. Two things need to happen:
– she needs more experience so the big things to process (environment, noises, people walking in front of the last jump dear god why do people dog that?!?!) are no longer at the forefront of her brain, and her brain has more bandwidth to think about the little things like organizing her body.
– her brain needs to finish be an adolescent brain 🙂 Nothing we can do about that other than wait it out LOL!!!
So with that in mind, and especially since she is doing so well – don’t obsess too much, just keep working on it and exposing her to different environments. You might also consider leaving her at 8″ in competition for a while, til her brain & body matures and til the training clicks into place. Then back to 12″ will be easy. I have decided that all of my dogs will spend the first year of competition at their preferred height then I will go to the regular height when they are growded up and ready, in mind and body. Contraband spent the first year running 16 and now he is moved up to 20.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Hope you had a fun weekend!>> And yep, he was watching my hands and not the toy. I usually keep my treats in a pocket but had on jeans and well……treats won’t fit in those pockets :0>>
I think the hardest part of the zig zags is finding a reward target that the dogs will look at LOL!!! Once we have that, the rest is easy 🙂
>>The platform is 2′ or a little longer so yeah…I do think it will work for the next Organizer games.>>
Perfect! Have fun!
TracyGood morning! Hope you had a good weekend!
This session looked really good! he was striding really well to the stationary target and also did really well when you introduced the moving target.
Yes – the next step is to flatten the angle a little bit but also to change his start spot. Rather than have him facing the bar and line directly, have him start by sitting parallel to the wing so his shoulder and hip are right next to the wing. The further wing on this clip is the white wing, so you can have him sitting pretty close to it, with his left shoulder and hip next to it and maybe 6 inches away – that way he is parallel to the wing and the bar, and has to jump to his left over bar 1 (rather than straight). This gets more zig zag going and helps prepare him for the backside slice approaches (because the sit spot is where he would be coming around the wing on a backside slice approach).
I don’t think this will be a problem for him at all, so you can start him in that spot and flatten the angle by 2 inches or so, and see how it goes 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I’m glad you enjoyed the zoom session, it was such a fun group of people and dogs!!!
The tunnel threadle we were mentioning is the tunnel “bypass” also know as the non-obvious side of the tunnel when she can see both entries. So if she is on a line to one end of the tunnel, a tunnel threadle would be used to pull her off that line, towards you, and to the non-obvious side of the tunnel.
She did well with the slice jumps!!! It think jumping to her left (first part of the session) was harder than jumping to her right (2nd part of the session).
Two ideas for you make it even easier:
You can use a target or placed reward on the landing side, so she has something to focus on as you get further and further away.Also, you can try releasing her with a “jump” verbal instead of a break cue. Dogs often interpret “break” as come to momma! But on this one, we want her to move away so a jump verbal might support it better.
Let me know what you think!! She’s doing well and I am excited to see more!
TracyHi! I really loved this session, adding arousal is exactly what she needs! It took a couple of reps at the beginning to sort out the mechanics (for her) and the timing (for you) but then you and Maisy got into a really great rhythm. I especially liked how she was go around the wing then to the plank SUPER FAST but think about her organization and get into position so nicely. Yay!!!!!
She only had one error, on the 2nd to last rep. We’ll just chalk it up to fatigue, the rest of the session was great.
So on the next session, do maybe only 3 or 4 reps on each side total. And, keeping eveeything else the same, you can add the next step: instead of giving her a treat when she sits, you can release her to go over the bar. This will get even more flow to the game.
Great job! Let me know how the next session goes!!
TracyGood morning!
Looking at the zig zags:
I think she did well here! She was definitely working her body on it – not lacking confidence, but definitely working her body.One suggestion is that the reward can be further from jump 2 (like where you had it at 1:28) and you can be next to the reward, so your position supports the acceleration and extension (we don’t want her to ask if she should collect on the 2nd jump because you are standing still near it).
Otherwise, I would keep going with this progression. For now, keep the bars at 8″ and add motion: a little bit of you moving forward to the stationary reward, then add the moving target reward (so the reward and you are both moving :))Then, raising the bars is the last step – and when you raise the bars, go back to the reward and you both being stationary.
And you can do this twice a week, and definitely not every day. It is hard for the dogs!
Organizer sits with the wing: the sits are looking really good! When you are facing her, you can slow down the reward mechanics after the release so she can slice in front of you – you were moving fast on the first few reps so she was also trying to go fast, which resulted in going to the wrong side of the wing. When your hands were a little slower, the line was clearer and she looked strong!
Adding the wrap with you on the front side – this was harder for her indeed! Her sit was not quite as tight, and her butt would sometimes pop out on the release rather than propel her forward. But, the more she practiced it, the better she got: the last 2 reps were spot on!
So to add in more encouragement for forward propulsion and commitment, you can add a reward target at the outer edge of the wing, on the exit of the wrap (same side you will be on). This will help keep her head down and also help her be sure about committing without needing the verbal in this scenario. It can be a food bowl, or a toy – whatever is relatively easy to ignore because it will definitely add some excitement to the game (which is great because we want her to be excited AND still remember to organize her hind end).Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Front side wraps looked good from the dog perspective 🙂 Grumio is organizing well and wrapping nicely! He did best when you gave a clear release word (especially in the 2nd half the session when you had him turning to his left). My guess is that you were quiet on the first half because it felt weird to you 🙂 Yes, you were correct to tuck in on the wing on the takeoff side, next to the platform – you can add in a little decel as he is approaching the platform (as you would do when handling a course, decel before rotating). And that way you won’t hit the wing or end up past it.
Backsides – he is doing great on those too, he is organizing well to make the turn. I think the next step to make it feel less weird for you would be to keep you moving (slowly) the whole time – same as you would do in real life, as you mentioned. In our perfect handling world, you would be moving forward on the backside circle wraps as soon as his butt was past your line. So you can do the same here, as long as it is slooooow motion 🙂 Cue him to go to the backside and get on the plank and sit… while you are walking forward the whole time. It adds a counter motion element to the motion override but it is exactly what this skill needs: can he make the turn to the backside and organize his jumping booty, all while you move forward.
I think he is ready for that because his organization looks good and he is going to the reward target after the release. This includes the reps where you are facing him as he approaches (you are on the landing side) – as he is getting on and sitting, you can be slowly walking forward to the takeoff side and then release when you are past the wing.
If he has any questions about taking the jump with all the counter motion, we can change the placement of the reward target to the landing side.You will feel less trapped when we add more motion so it should feel a lot more natural to you too 🙂
Great job! Let me know how he does when you try this with more motion!
Tracy
