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Good morning!
He is doing this really well and yes, I agree – he is pretty natural with the head turns. He had no trouble adding the wing to the game after doing the upright. So with that in mind, a couple of ideas for you for the next session:
When you send him to the wing, stay close and your other hand to flip him back around it to get the 2nd wrap in a row – that will really get him leading with his head and bending through his midsection, to be even tighter 🙂 You might have to slow him down the first time to do it but then when he has the idea, you will see him bending even more!
And separately- on the wing you used here, you can start further away from it, maybe 10 feet away, to send him. That way you can see the moment he turns his head on the ‘takeoff’ approach side of the wing, and then you can click that moment. He was making good head turns when he arrived at the wing, so now we can do some shaping to get him to do it on the approach side – which will result in even better turning and jumping skills.
Great job!! Let me know how the other games are going!
Tracy
Whoa a jacket! I have never seen you in a jacket! LOL!
She did really well here! The sits were well organized but the tiniest bit sideways turning towards you. You can keep her straighter with a reward target out front of her so she doesn’t look at your hands as much (like a Manners Minder or empty bowl).
Adding the challenges also looked good: She did well coming in with more speed as long as you didn’t move to fast yet 🙂 And when you add the wing wrap before it, try to eb sure that the line to the organizer is straight so she doesn’t get on it from the side.
At this stage, you can drop the clicker and just use praise/releases, so you can delay a tiny bit more to be sure she is fully in the sit and not moving her feet anymore. That will help her be even more snappy with it!
Also, she is ready for the next step, seeing this in front of the wing 🙂
Gerat job! Let me know how it goes with the wing added 🙂
TracyGood morning!
The zig zag flatwork looked great – the 5 foot distance definitely got him thinking, so keep working that distance til you see the same quickness we saw him do at the 6 foot distance (cantering/galloping rather than trotting). Then… you can move it to 4 feet then 3 feet 🙂 The quicker he gets himself making these changes, the easier the slice jumping will be.
But in terms of progression – as soon as you see him cantering more in the 5 foot distance (probably in the next session), you can go to the 2 jump zig zag game and getting the flatwork down to 4 feet then 3 feet can be something you do later on down the road.
Looking at the leading with the head video:
Both sides looked really good, and when you did the sends and single wraps, we can see him approaching the upright with his head turned to drive into the wrap, especially on the right turns. Yay!
>> This time I thought he looked more comfortable turning to his left and less comfortable turning to the right…the opposite of last time
I think this had to do with how quicky you got your cue hand out of the way: on the left turns, you cued and the hand was not in his way. On the right turns, he had to wait til you moved your hand which was in a more “in your face” position LOL! So that is probably what you felt in the moment: that slight hesitation so he wouldn’t run into your hand 🙂
>>Should I move this to a wing?
Yes, you can definitely move this to a wing. And get the organizers going to the wing too, so we can meld the organization for the turn with the head turn at the wing.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>> I know it’s not recommended doing both on the same day, but I figured this would be the one time I could get away with it since there is no actual jumping involved,>>
In these early stages, the stuff without actual jumping can be done on the same day, with rest days in between because there is a definite hind end workout happening 🙂 The hunting weekend provides excellent rest breaks LOL!
Excellent work on the zig zag flatwork! Nothing to change in terms of how you were facing him or lining him up, that all looked great. You can cue the in-and-out faster for him, more like what you did at :39 – giving the 2nd cue shortly after he released to start moving. The later part of the session where the wings were 6 feet apart had the earlier cues and that looked good – the quicker he can make the lead changes, the better!
He is a big dude, so I also recommend you play with this flatwork game with the wings 4 feet apart and even 3 feet apart, for quickness and for getting him used to shifting like that in smaller spaces. And he will probably see 4 foot bars on jumps at trials or in training, so we want him to be comfy with that short distance.
When he returns from his weekend adventures, you can definitely start the 2 jump zig zag games 🙂
Great job with the platform!
>> my ahah moment was when I took half a step back giving him a bit more room to get on the platform.>>
yes, that totally helped him! Yay!
I notice that he loses his form a tiny bit when he reaches up for the 2nd or 3rd cookie – you can see his right leg slide off the side towards the end of this clip LOL!! My guess is that he was thinking “COOKIE!” in that moment and forgetting to hold himself tight in the sit. So you can add more time between each cookie, and deliver justa tiny bit lower so his chin is high but he is not leaning upwards to get it. You can also deliver one cookie then release, so he can get that fabulous first sit into his muscle memory.
Planks with wing:
When you are facing him and on the ‘landing’ side of the wing, rewarding him across your body as if he was doing a serpentine if great, then you can toss the treat back to the starting point for the next rep. What you did on the 2nd video (the right side) was more efficient: you rewarded for going all the way around the wing as a wrap, which also conveniently set him up for the next rep 🙂 He needed a moment to get organized on that first rep of the right side: the treat is stimulating and he forgot the organization on that first rep, but then recovered it and was brilliant on the rest of the reps. Super!I think that throwing the reward all the way back around the wing the best way to do it when you are facing him – but on the next session, you can change your position so that you are on the ‘takeoff’ side of the wing (same side as the plank, as if you are cuing a front side wrap). When you move to there, the reward definitely gets placed for coming all the way around the wing – almost identical to how you were tossing it in the right side plank video here.
Based on his progress here, my guess is that he will only need one session of you on the ‘takeoff’ side of the wing, then you can add the full jump to this. That will probably happen early to middle of next week, based on his busy training and hunting schedule 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I hope that you test negative for the icky you-know-what, or at least have an incredibly mild case like I did if you end up testing positive,It took her a moment at the beginning to realize she needed to get all 4 feet on the plank, but then she was really quite organized! Yay Changste! You were helping her with body position (facing her) and stopping with her when you added the wnig wrap before it. That is all fine, and she got the concept. On the next session, you can still give her your verbal cues but try not to face her to get the sit. If that works, you can move the plank to the “To The Wing” game to add in the wing wraps.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
This was a super interesting session to watch!!! I would have tried the same things you did (overlapping the wings, loosening angles, switching to a less-exciting reward). What I notice is that when he is trying to process this challenging set up with a moving or exciting reward, he either can’t get it done with the bounce and good form (he is pretty high over bar 2 on the reps when he bounces), or he adds a stride to try to get the good form (head lower, more power). But his front and hind were not working together on that plan LOL! When you were using food from hand, he was bouncing but his head was up so he was pulling upwards with the front more than he was pushing from the rear. And one some of the reps, he had really good form when he added the stride.
So I think he was just trying to sort out the processing. We can help him: try a 4 inch bar, wings entirely overlapped , and the dragging grown up non-floofy toy 🙂 Start with the angles maybe only an inch or two tighter than your starting point here, and leave them there for an entire session of 6 reps or so – since he is processing a lot, moving them a lot makes it even harder.
I bet that plus latent learning from today will smooth things out 🙂
Super nice session with the wing & plank! His sits looked pretty snappy/fast and organized, and it looked like he was having a good time too 🙂 Yay! He added a lot of speed when you added the wing, but I didn’t see any change in his form – he was still very organized. SUPER! And I liked the threadle wrap application when you were on the wrong side by accident 🙂 So…. onwards to the jump! Add the jump bar here for the wraps (you might need to move the plank a couple of inches further from the bar) and also you can start the slices with the organizer.
Great job! Let me know what you think, and what happens with the next session of zig zags 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>Ugh I suffer from a bit of rush and trouble organizing too lol! I won’t ever use the actual word left and right again. When I’m having to think about a lot of other things my brain defaults to the side my dog is on which is WRONG!!! I am working on this and getting better.>>
I feel that pain! You will sort it out when you are more used to running her.
>>What I starting doing a few days before I started this class is the Susan salo set point exercise for a bend. So very similar to moving target except there is the facilitator jump. I am also doing jump bumps on each side of the pinwheel jump to help her find a better takeoff. Separate exercise. I will have to fade the jump bumps. What’s my plan on that??? No clue yet.>>
All good! You canfade the bumps by going to weave poles to replace them, then little pieces of PVC to fade them even more.
>>Here is our novice jumpers title run! I was not rushed and did a rear exactly like you were talking about. We had no bars and it was a huge circle!!>>
YEAH!!!! Great job, especially on that pinwheel. I think for now the “no rushing” is a good mantra to let her get settled into her speed. As she gets more experienced, you can add back more aggressive handling.
>>Jumping mechanics I think Is very neglected.
True! There are some good jumping programs out there but they are mainly grids like Susan Salo and Linda Mecklenburg do. These games come at the jumping skills from a conditioning angle.
>>Also, I was wondering if I should do a strengthening program with her. Also a big weakness of mine, only because I don’t really know what to do. Any suggestions on a good person that has a good detailed plan?>>
Dr. Leslie Eide is my favorite 🙂 Tell her that Hot Sauce sent you 🙂
https://www.thetotalcanine.com/
Tracy
Good morning!
>>I think it’s mostly the floof lol! Her feet look pretty good to me and I can’t even see them most of the time😂.>>
OK good, as long as you see see her line up under the floof LOL!! Or you can wet her down to de-floof her LOL!
>> One thing I noticed when reviewing videos of her bars was that she actually hits it with chest sometimes too, not just her back feet. It’s like she is taking off too late for it and treating it more like her wrap collection. Backside slices can be the same bar issue depending on the angle of her approach!
If she is hitting it with her chest, then her hind end is not organized for liftoff 🙂 She might be getting in too close or not sure of how to choose her takeoff spot, because her booty is not involved yet LOL! And so she is trying to do it all with front end and it is not working out well yet.
>>Here is a short video I did two weeks back to look at her jumping form on the pinwheel. let me know what you think about the takeoff.>>
I think that she is definitely pulling from the front 🙂 Part of it is probably a distraction issue – verbals (sometimes right when it should be left LOL!) and motion and distance all happening, so she is struggling to override the chase impulse while she gets organized. So for now, when you are handling a course: take out your motion and don’t run as fast to help her be successful. Go in closer to the pinwheels, even if it means you rear cross later in the course (better ato have a rear cross than a dropped bar, as she learns this).
And, separately from course work, work the jumping distractions game here a lot with the very low bar an angled sends, presenting all the distractions: verbals, acceleration, distance, etc.The organizers and zig zags will help build the skill too!
Looking at the ground bars – is she supposed to take off further bar, using the ground bar almost as a double jump? If so, that is exactly what she did. The other thing here is that you were closer, using fewer verbals, less speed, less distance. So I am not sure if that is what helped her, or the ground bar, or both. So if the ground bar is going well, add back the other challenges (speed, distance, verbals over the bar, etc). Also, what is the plan to fade the ground bar? Every aid needs a plan to fade it 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
He is just like my Contraband on the zig zags – he has ALL the power but needs a reason to use it LOL! Stinkers, indeed. Ha! Moving target for the win! And yes, he was leaning in to do it which I LOVE for him, because he is fired up with out losing form. Just about all of these reps were fabulous! So when you see him leaning in, release! The 2 errors here were when you didn’t release on the leaning in moment:
at 1:02, he was totally GAME ON! and leaning in, then you paused… so he sniffed the wing at 1:03 which is probably a displacement behavior of “oh dang, maybe I am not supposed to lean in?” then he was disorganized when you did release.
The other oopsie was a broken stay at 1:28 when he was leaning in and you said “ready” so he anticipated the release.
So take the leaning in as a sign that he is about to be very organized because he is one of those dogs that can lean in, be super excited… and stay organized (that is a rare and WONDERFUL thing :)) If he was being scattered or disorganized, I would advise against the leaning in, but he is the opposite: fired up and ready to power through things when he is leaning in.
He did well with the wing organizer here! Nice hind end use! Yes, his head was a little up coming around the wing so you can start to release faster as you were doing, and either have a Manners Minder instead of the bowl (that will be mentally challenging for him!) or, move the bowl to the ‘landing’ side (other side of the wing) so he releases and moves forward to it. Then we can gradually start to move it back around the wing to where it is now. You can warm him up like that in the next session, and after 2 or 3 reps you can go to adding the rest of the jump and a low bar. The bar will also help him look forward more.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
She is doing really well with her sits here – smacking her bum down like an exclamation point LOL! Yes, she had her butt hanging off a few of them but she was adjusting when that happened. She also did really well coming in from various angles – note how she came in from a hard angle on the very last but got all of her toesies lined up nicely! Yay!
Yes, she is solid with the zig zags on the flat, she seemed to have no questions about the lead changes even at the 4 foot distance. Perfect!
So for both of these games: move to the next step, she is ready 🙂
You can bring the sits to the longer plank, in preparation for putting them on a wing (and revisit the smaller platform as a conditioning game/tight sit reminder every few days)You can move to the 2 jump zig zags!
Great job here!!! Fingers crossed for continued good training weather!
Tracy
Good morning! Lots of great stuff here!!
Leading with the head video:
>>Started with flicks and got some good head turns.
He is doing great with the flick sideways approaches to the left. Really strong! Not *quite* as coordinated to the right yet – he is slowing himself down to get it down properly, and I appreciate that! It is far better for him to think about form and organization than it is for him to fling himself at the wing LOL! Good boy! So for the flicks to the right – slow down your mechanics of the hand cue to help him organize, then keep rewarding like you did.
>>When I line him up in front of the wing though, he tends to drift lateral/flank the wing so he doesn’t really turn his heart much to go around the back side.
On these forward approaches – he is doing well with the left turns here, my only suggestion is to place your reinforcement so he finishes the wrap to get the reward. He is very organized and when we give him more of a reason to turn his head (like you running 🙂 ) then you will see more of it on the approach/takeoff side.
He was definitely wider to the right turns on these too, which is normal that he has a side preference. I found it interesting in a VERY good way that he is shaping his own line there to produce the turn. I think that is what you are seeing when you see the lateral drift. I am fine with him doing that for now, for a couple of reasons:
– he is actively sorting out the best approach
– he is thinking about his body
– sometimes that self-shaped line is actually the fastest way to do it, when we put a timer on it. Will it look as pretty as the super tight collections? Nope… but it will be powerful and faster 🙂 And safe too, since he is creating it.What I suggest to help him organize is to, on the right turns, put yourself closer to the wing, send him forward to it, then use the flick hand cue to get him to turn his head to approach it again.
>>He does turn his head when he is coming around from the back to the front.
Yes, he looks great there!
>>Should I try to add a barrier to get him to approach the wing straight? If he did, he might turn his head more.
I don’t think you need a barrier – those cause dogs to think about avoiding the barrier more than turning their heads, making the barrier hard to fade out. When he gets to the organizers with the wraps, you will see the pieces coming together really nicely 🙂
Moving target: Very clever to use the bowl and cat food! Definitely mission: accomplished with getting speed AND keeping his head down. We will definitely use this in the zig zags! He was not sad when it tipped and the food fell out. It made me think of something like a Toppl: you can easily attach it to a line and put a little cream cheese in it – so even if it bounces around, nothing falls out.
The plank – watch his back feets – look at how he is actively pulling them in for a tight sit especially on the first reps and again at :45, as well as throughout. He is definitely overcoming the manspread AND doing it while you are moving fast. The back view was very cool to see him isolating his hind end into the sit as you moved away from the camera. I am super happy with his work here – onwards to adding the plank to the wing (dial back your motion because the wing will add plenty of distraction 🙂 )
Zig zags – This was a session in 2 parts in some ways:
For the first minute or so, he had good form and was bouncing nicely. I think he was kind of relaxed about it because he was going to a stationary food reward. So his form was correct and we can get more power with leaving the angles open like they were at the start here, and adding more “oomph” by going to the moving target (also, when you do that, see how he does if you put the wings end-to-end and not overlapping).The 2nd part of this session was from approx 1:15 to the end, and it falls into the “too hard for now” category. The jump angles got flat pretty quickly, so he didn’t know how to handle it with good form and was adding strides or jumping short on the first one as you mentioned. You were trying to help him by adding more of your motion, but ideally we let him sort it out by keeping the angles open for longer (no need to make big changes in the angles all in one session, you can be more gradual about it and flatten them over the course of multiple sessions). So as you work the zig zags, if you see 2 taps of his front feet between the jumps (a stride added instead of the bounce) – go back to the easier angle where he will bounce without you having to run, and leave it there for the rest of the session to help promote the good form.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! You are off to a great start – he is SO FUN!!!!
>>Lead with the Head. He’s pretty fast with his circles, should I try to slow him down? Do I need to change my placement of reward or should I be using the other hand?
You are right, he is really fast – he seems like the type that does everything fast LOL!! But his form is generally good and when he figured out the game – note how much he used his head to lead into the turns, especially on the left turns in the 2nd half of the video!
To help isolate the head turn, cue it with the hand you were using but have that hand empty (it is possible he was following the cookie and not actively turning his head) an throw the cookie with the other hand as soon as you see him turn his head. That can mark that head turn moment even more.
Moving target: possibly the easiest game Marshal has ever played? LOL! I liked the reps towards the end the best when you were trusting him more (only one cheating moment LOL!) and you were dragging the toy the whole time and released him when you were further away so he could take multiple big strides. He looked great and we will totally be using this game with the zig zags 🙂 About getting him to NOT smash his face into the ground – he might like a giant hollee roller or Jolly ball? Those are easy to scoop up on the run. Or an semi-deflated soccer ball?
Moving target with jump – also looks great, it is producing the position we want. Try to release as soon as he looks at the toy (an not up at you) to keep solidifying the form. You might be able to get him to look down at the toy by dragging it several steps before releasing – he seems to have a good stay and the dragging toy before the release should draw his focus downwards.
Platform Organizers: good boy, this was hard! Thank you for showing us his organization on the flat- he already has a tight sit on the flat but was actually having a bit of trouble on that platform. It was a little smaller so he has to sit with even more organization than he does on the flat. He offered some alternate suggestions LOL! but you did get some very nice tight sits on it. Definitely keep revisiting this this platform game because it was challenging for him and will be great for jump organization! Even as we move into the games with the plank, you can keep pulling out the platform as a game every few days.
After watching the plank video – try the next platform session with you standing and see how he does. Your standing position changes his head position (he looks further up) and that can help him organize on the platform more too!
On the plank: very nice! One thing I notice about him is that he wants to go FAST 🙂 I am sure you have noticed this too 🙂 So with that in mind, give him a couple of extra heartbeats (long enough for you to say “good” or take a breath) to organize fully… then you can deliver the reward and release into the ‘go fast’ portion of the cookie toss 🙂 You were praising/rewarding almost immediately but the extra heartbeat will help him hold tight in the position. And since he is obviously very smart, he will learn to organize faster, to get to the reinforcement faster – which will eliminate the little misses he had here. That can get him into the mode of goes fast – organize – go fast so he doesn’t end up rushing himself.
>>Getting Organized on the Move. Anything I should do differently?.>
He did really well here! At first he was surprised that you were continuing to move but by the last few reps, he had it all sorted out. So you can gradually add more of your speed, building up to you eventually running: can he organize his hind end into the sit while you run? And you can also throwing the reward back to him, to reward in the spot of the sit – I use a ‘catch’ marker which means the reward is being tossed back and the dog is allowed to move from the sit to get it.
Great job! You can definitely start the zig zag games, and I think you can add the plank to the wing as well! Looking forward to seeing more of Marshal 🙂
Tracy
Good morning! He is doing really well here!!!
The zig zags on the flat look really good with the dragging toy, he was able to shift his leads without any trouble, and at high speed. Super!!
>> I tried to make sure he kept his head down, but it seemed like it wasn’t all the way down all the time.>
His head position was good! And it was good on the next session with the MM too. He was keeping his head at or below shoulder level, and looking forward, which is exactly what we want.
He did well with the 2 jumps too. The MM here was a bit too close, he had to stop very soon after landing. So when you are using the stationary target like the MM (which he seems to love :)), you can move it to about 12 feet from the 2nd jump so he can power over jump 2, land, and take onother big stride to it.
Bearing in mind that we want to maintain form above all else, don’t add the backside sending yet. That was causing him to lose his form and add strides on most of those backside reps – to many things happenign for him to focus on fom LOL! He was at his best in terms of when you were doing front side slices (really nice, powerful form on those!!), so the next step should be using the same angle of the bars you had here and adding the moving target toy, then flattening the angles of the jump to get the bars a little straighter. When he can do it with the bars almost straight and the moving target with you also moving, then you can open up the angles again and start the backsides.
The 3rd video has the moving target on the zig zags – perfect!
>>I wanted to just compare a couple of reps using his tug toy to see if that changed his form at all compared to using the MM. Which do you think looks better?
The moving target looks great! And ultimately, the moving target will be what we use to add more speed and challenge to his form produce, but keeping focusing on form while you approach this more systematically. When using the moving target, start by leading out past the 2nd jump, put the toy on the ground, start to drag it with you walking fast (not running) – then release him. When you adding too much excitement & distraction like on the 2nd rep (releasing before you were past the 2nd jump) he lost form and dropped the bar. So you can be more chill (even if you have to fake it LOL!) because the setup is hard and the moving target adds the excitement for now, so he can focus on his form.
With this in mind, hold off on doing the backsides yet because the mechanics get off with the sending, the toy placement, and the speed – his form gets off (head coming up, bar coming down or extra strides). Keep him on the front sides with the precise line up position, adding the moving target and gently closing the angles. When we see his form percolating over the course of several sessions, you can open the angles back up and start the backsides – but with first the MM then the toy placed out ahead rather than in your hand, so he has a focal point and can keep focusing on form.
>> Should I use a combination of these in training?>>
Yes, systematically, because form is the most important thing: all new concepts on these games taught with the stationary target and you also stationary so he doesn’t have the motion distraction. And as the angles get harder, you can go back to the stationary target. When he looks powerful and organized for 2 sessions with the stationary target, you can add the moving target, starting slowly but also being sure to maintain all the other precise mechanics. So you might not end up using both of these in the same session – it is more like starting with one, and later in the progression going to the other.
Plank Organizers are also looking good! When playingwith jus tthe plank, try to keep moving slowly (an extension of the motion override) as he is getting on the plank and going into the sit, as we will be using that for the slice jumping gams. You can use the verbal and hand signal to get the sit whie you fade out the decel.
Adding the plank to the wing & jump: Also going really well! It looks like he is really using his hind end nicely to get organized for takeoff. Yay!
At this stage, you can begin to release the sit and reward after going around the wing rather than rewarding in position for the sit.
The side view was good to see, thanks for addnig that! You can move the plank a couple of inches back from the bar so that his head is not over the bar when he sits 🙂 That means his hind end in a little too close, so we can adjust the setup.
Also, since this plank position will end up being a wrap organization, keep all of your motoin on the frton side of the bar and not past the landing side (which is an extension cue) – stay tucked into takeoff side of the wing like you did on the last video. He did really well with the sit cue coming just before he got on the plank. Super!!
On that last video, you nentioned using a target to give him a focal point – I agree, that would be useful! Yoir placement was good but the target will help him predict where to look. You can put an empty food bowl on the takeoff side, near the plank, so he can be released from the sit and around the wing to the reward target. Try it first with just a wing (no bar) so that he can see the framework and if that goes well for a session, you can move it back to the low bar here.
And be sure that your wing wrap sets him up on a straight line to the plank so he doesn’t end up getting on at an angle 🙂You can also add the plank to the slice approaches, I think he is ready for that.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Adding the wing to help get the sit was clever on the Cato plank! And you can always play with a verbal discrimination of the sit versus the 2o2o if you wanted added challenge 🙂He did really well with the sits – pretty quick responses, and only a little sideways to see you around the wing LOL! He is still organizing: it takes a little reset of the back feet before he moves into the sit, kind of like a step-step-sit at the end of the board, as he is preparing to lower his hind end.
He is making good adjustments though, so my guess is that if we give him a reason to organize into the sit faster then he will organize into the sit faster 🙂 The ideal “picture” would be that he is weight shifting as he approaches the end board and tucks his rear immediately, no extra back foot steps when he reaches the end of the board.
The reason we can give him is more action, in the form of wrapping the wing rather than the cookies for the sit, so you can definitely move to that step and I bet we see faster organization 🙂
Looking at the zig zags – I agree that moving the extra support out of the way was good, and I like how he set up to approach the bar on rep 2! The rest of the reps looks good too, and I like that you added the moving target. So for the next session, start where you left off but start dragging the toy on the ground before the release. If it all goes well (and I imagine it will), you can keep flattening the angle of the jumps 🙂
Great job! Have fun!
Tracy
