Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi!
I think he did well here trying to figure this crazy game out with you sitting LOL!!
The difference in the energy of the verbal makes a bug difference for him. Question: do both of the cues begin with. ‘Get in’ or ‘go in’? I didn’t notice that in earlier sessions (I thought you used tunnel as the tunnel verbal, but maybe I was under-caffeinated LOL!!)The cues being too similar might be why he hd a question at the end – too similar and he was trying to predict which one it was, perhaps?
Feel free to try this with the tunnel verbal and see if it makes a difference.
Nice work!
TracyHi!
>>There were a few new people at the field. Only one other dog in the field at the same time- and far away. But he was clearly uncomfortable. Should I keep it to just me and Jamie or one other person for now? other suggestions?>>
That is good info from him! I think he needs to get into environments with other people around, but without challenging behaviors (stay is pretty challenging!)
You can take him on walkabouts near new people, playing the pattern game. That way he can assess them and return his engagement to you when he is ready. I would do this for as many sessions as needed til he returns engagement really fast – then you can switch to asking for a simple behavior. Once he is used to new people and not surprised by them, all of the other behavior will pop right back into place 🙂
Keep me posted!Tracy
Good morning!
>>I know VERY little about jump grids and am just learning about conditioning work. I have the Susan Salo book. Should I just go through and pick random ones to set up each week? >>
I don’t think the Salo grids will necessarily help her. I recommend Dr. Leslie Eide, a sports vet who teaches online jumping and conditioning classes, and also is a high level agility competitor 🙂
https://www.facebook.com/thetotalcanine
>>Moving on to the next thing- we had the opportunity to rent some indoor AIR CONDITIONED space a couple days ago>>
Ah, AC!!! That is so nice at this time of year.
Seq 1: The walk through looked good! One thing to remember is that the dogs are always slower on mats and the handlers are always faster 🙂 So take that into consideration as you plan your timing – letting her look at the line before you move to the next one. She will cue you when she has it 🙂
First run – You were a little too quick 3-4, she needed to be able to get past you from the tunnel exit (accidentally push to the backside). You let her get past you better on the 2nd run and that looked good!
The backside cue on the first rep was too forward facing, showing the front side, so the physical cue overrode the verbal. Much better backside cue on the redo (facing the backside more). Nice connection on the exit! Then be sure you run to the next jump directly, you were moving laterally away from it.
Seq 2: walk through looked good here too. One thing I notice on the walk through (that was mirrored on the run) was that you are really far from jump 2 here – as the dogs learn to be super independent on the threadle, you will need support it with a positional cue by being close enough to the jump to touch it 🙂
On the run, being that far from the jump caused confusion at 1:42 – she came to you but did not know to go back to the jump. Then you turned your shoulders forward which made it harder. Keep going there! The cookie drop came when she turned and barked at you, right in front of a jump. Yes, we want her to not get frustrated but also, we don’t want to present cookies when she is facing you and barking in front of a jump. So the trick is to keep moving, keep moving 🙂
Back to the threadle: start super close to the jump, she should have just enough room to get between you and the jump. Hold the threadle position until she turns her head to 2 then you can move away. No need to turn your shoulders forward to cue the jump – the threadle cues it. When you turned the shoulders forward to the jump, it is potentially cuing her to go past the jump (like on the first rep). So keep your shoulders frozen in threadle position til she turns and looks at jump 2, then get outta there for 3-4.
>>After the 2nd attempt of sequence 2, I did the opening with 3 different handling moves. I’m not sure which one I liked better, but they were all fun to try!>
The blind worked well there and so did the forced front cross to Jaakko because they both showed the line more clearly and they are not ‘trained’ cues – meaning, if you do it right, the dog does it right 🙂 But, they both require the handler to spend more time moving to jump 2. And the threadle allows you to leave as soon as she turns her head to the jump, so that is a big advantage for the threadle.
The next section looked really good! Nice layering! The backside push needed your physical cues to face the backside more (you were clearer at 2:26 on the 2nd run) – you were turned to the front so she had a question about which side.
Threadle wrap looked great! YAY!! Nice to see the training shine through!
3rd sequence – another good walk through. You can try going even faster on all of the walk throughs, and also get the verbals out loud like you would do on a run – that changes the body language!
The other thing to plan in the walk through is seeing her head look at the jumps – that seemed to be the only real source of questions from her on any of these – you being a little early to cue or move away, which pulls her off or pushes her to a different line.
On the runs: Nice opening! Great lead out position and timing there!
Yes, a little loss of connection 8-9 on the first run, be sure she looks at the jump. The second run looked a lot better in terms of connection!
There was something happening with the verbal there – If there is a blooper, don’t dwell on it 🙂 You had a great run going til you starting thinking about the verbal at 4:31… dwelling on it caused the error at 4:37 because you were talking and didn’t connect or get to the tunnel exit. So keep practicing carrying on and ignoring errors 🙂
>>could not figure out how to get the backside of 6. I have been tasked with finding out what the answer is, lol. >>
Depending on exactly how the jump is set up (it was hard to see here), it is generally a backside push to slice but a threadle wrap is good to practice there too.
The tunnel in the way takes out the dogs being able to see your foot work (especially small dogs) so it is all upper body and verbal cue.
The specifics of the physical cue can be individual for each dog. The push to the backside cue would start as she is lifting for the jump before – and to support the verbal, you can rotate your upper body to her to give her more connection, or use an outside arm to push her to the backside. Or some dogs do better with a dog side arm.
You can also set up convergence by not going as close to 4 so you can by showing converging motion 5-6 and help push her out.
It is something to play with without the tunnel there, and with a line on the ground or a blocker or something to be sure you add distance.
The threadle wrap with the layering would need the cues to start before 5 too, with. The verbal and the big upper body movement – but also needs to be isolated at a distance. I think the dogs might have been surprised that there was something other a straight line on the layering, so they had a delayed response to the cues and needed earlier/more exaggerated cues there.
In that case, perfect handling won’t help the dogs 🙂 it is a matter of showing it to them in context so they understand that backsides are possible in layering too!
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>first, did I set this up wrong? You mentioned the way it was built required a lead change. >>
It was not wrong, it is just that the jump she was missing was a little bit away from the line – just a foot or. two off the line, so she needed to change leads to move out to it. Some dogs see that automatically, some need to be cued for it (mine need to be cued for it, generally).
>>And second question is what should my shoulders and stuff be doing to support that go out line? You mentioned I was forward which I thought was right but it sounds like that pulled her in?>>
That can depend on the individual dog – some dogs needs an arm out to the side, some dogs need ‘get out’ handling with the opposite arm. She might need that ‘get out’ and opposite arm to push her away to the jump – definitely something to train separately from layering, then add the layering back in.
>>Sometimes I wish we could do things right the first time.
The key to getting it right the first time is the walk through 🙂 not the run! So… are you doing the full steps of the walk through before you run it? If so, put it on video and post it so we can see what is happening. On the run, the errors that cause faults are just because you are late in the handling – on the first time in each section, you cues were good choices, but they came as she was lifting for the turn jump when ideally they would be starting no later than landing of the previous jump (and in tight spaces like this, probably liftoff from the previous jump).
This was set pretty tight – since she is a big dog with a big stride, jump her at 12” when the spacing is less that 20 feet. I know 15 or 18 foot distances are “legal” in AKC but they are really really bad for big dogs and I would never want the dog to slam their bodies making the turns. Jump 12” keep things challenging for you and will give her time to get the striding without smacking the bar, poor girlie!Looking at the runs – on the first run, at :03 the turns cues started at liftoff to the turn jump when should have happened at landing of previous jump so she ended up off course.
Definitely better timing on the second rep, starting as she was in the air over the previous jump but those distances are really tiny for her to be jumping even 20” so she slammed the bar, ouch! So while smaller dogs might have no problem with the distances, you can advocate for your big dog and run her at 12” on those sections.
Good job staying in motion and keeping her going after the oopsie on the first run!
>>And she couldn’t get her weavers.
I don’t know why she couldn’t weave or why she was crunchy/slow when she did weave, but don’t demand them if she can’t do them that day. You told her she has to do them… but actually she does not have to do them LOL!!! It might be a pain issue, so if she is normally fine and couldn’t do them that day, then don’t ask for the weaves if she can’t. Give her a rest and try again in a couple of days to see what is going on.
On the section heading to the ending line – your cues were good but, late 🙂
Switch to the tunnel at :48 can happen as she is approaching the bar, and then you can layer that jump to get to the next spot sooner. And the FC cues at :54 should be starting as she exits the tunnel – you were moving forward til she took off, then did the cross.You were saying the ‘here’ cue at 1:29 but the motion of you driving forward put her into the tunnel because the physical turn cues overrode the verbals.
So in those sections, in the walk through – plan the physical cues and then plan the timing of where they should be coming to her, generally one jump earlier. And then in the walk through, run if faster to practice that timing 🙂
My guess is either you are practicing a bit of late timing in the walk through, or you are not doing the full walk through past learning the course. So definitely get the full walk through going and you will see a pretty massive difference in your runs!
>>I did get a new agility shirt I thought you’d appreciate. >>
I love it!!!! Yay!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Nice work on the tunnel exits, Annalise!! They are definitely harder than they look on paper! The timing is pretty early!The key is getting the verbal AND physical cue to her, before she goes into the tunnel.
It might help to put out a visual marker on the ground, so you can see her arriving at the spot where you need to start the verbal and physical cues. That spot is about 6 feet before she enters the tunnel. In the past, I have put a leash on the ground as a line for the dog to cross – right as she is arriving at the line, I give the physical and verbal cues.
Prytania’s commitment looks really good, so I think doing both the physical and verbal cue that early will be perfectly fine.
One thing to note is that at this point, as she is learning the verbals, that if the physical cue doesn’t match the verbal, she is likely to go with the physical cue. This is normal, so definitely remember to match the physical cue to the verbal cue. When you did that, she was perfect!!! And keep rewarding all the reps, because her responses are reflections of what she sees/hears and when she sees/hears them.
Here are some examples of what I mean:
At 1:05, the left verbal seemed timely but the physical cue looked like the go (acceleration straight) So she went straight. Good girl!
1:17 was better – she got both cues, and had a much better turn!At 1:26 the physical cue was acceleration straight and the left verbal was after she entered the tunnel, so she went straight.
1:38 was really good!! Both cues came before she got into the tunnel. Nice!!!
When you were on different angles, like at 1:50 – the go and acceleration happened after she was in the tunnel so she turned.
Compare to 2:01 where both happened before the tunnel and she was great driving straight. Yay! She is very honest about responding to what she sees and hears before entering the tunnel.You can also see the comparison between 2:13 (where both cues happened after she entered the tunnel) and 2:39 and 2:50 were so much earlier, so she was able to respond beautifully.
The section with the Rear crosses looked terrific!!! They are hard but you did a great job showing them to her!! Her turn was very nice at 3:04 and even better at 3:24 🙂
Nice balance to the GO, followed by a super wow rep on the left at 3:43!!She came out of the tunnel on the 2nd to last rep – you might have been too early on the RC? But more likely, she was a little tired. No worries! She finished strong on the last rep.
Prytania was very confident slamming that board around! Nice!
Excellent adjustment at :37 to move the bowl further away – you noticed that the bowl was too close and scrunching her up so moving it further away REALLY helped. Super! I think the sweet spot for the bowl target is probably 6 inches from the board? Far enough for her two front feet to easily come off it, but not so far that she stretches to get to it.Since this went so well, you can go to the next step of adding the cue:
– Line her up next to the board, at the very end of it (your toes are near the end of the board) with both of you facing the target and end of the board.
– Hold her collar, say her target cue
– Let go of her collar and let her jump into position
– Then reward, and give that clear release.
The goal is that she doesn’t run up and turn around 🙂 but rather, moves directly into the target position.
Great job here!!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
The serps are looking strong! You are releasing with very clear serp shoulders – perfect!Since the serp cues cues the in and the out to the next jump, we can get even more independence on the 2nd jump. You can hold your shoulders in that serp position as you move forward, meaning your shoulders are still open to him, until he lands and look at the 2nd jump. That is when you can turn the shoulders forward. If you turn forward too soon, he might end up relying on you to cue the next jump, or he might run past the next jump. So, the ser shoulders will cue him to both come in over the serp jump AND go back out for the next jump, no extra help needed from you as long as you are connected 🙂
Great job here!
TracyHi!
He did really well here – most of your handling info was out of the picture, so he really had to listen to the verbals. What a good boy!!! Since this went so well, and the distance between the tunnel and crate went really well – one last crazy step:You get to sit in a chair 🙂 And line him up betewen your knees, so he is facing forward to the setup. Hold him by the collar, say the verbal a couple of times… then let go and keep saying it. Try not to move a muscle – see if hecan find the correct obstacle without any motion at all 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
>>. Should I try these again or the even harder pop outs 3 and 4?
Try 3 and 4! They are not harder, just different 🙂
>>So, one sequence one the layer of jump three is from the landing side. Somehow I thought you wanted us to layer from the take off side sending to 4 and 5.
Yes – you can go closer to 4 then send her away and support it on a parallel path while you layer.
>> Also, I’m not sure about the threadle comment for jump 5. Is it a threadle, brake arm or false turn?
It is a threadle based no how you built it – her obvious line is to the back, so the threadle brings her to the front. A brake arm and a false turn are all related to threadles: brake arm might get the same turn in this context, but not always because it is a turn cue, not a “which side of jump” cue. The false turn generally means there is foot rotation too, which we want to avoid.
>>And, is that if you are layering 3?
Depends on the dog – she might read the line the same way and need the threadle, or she might feel more of a pull from your position and not need the threadle.
>>I still struggle with lines I should run. Sprite thinks so too!>>
that is all of us, in agility 🙂 A constant puzzle to find the lines and use the correct cues 🙂
T
Hi! These are going well!!
>>I don’t know why but I kept using the wrong verbal.
Yes, I was confused, I was like “wait, are these threadles?” LOL!!! Maybe you got into threadle verbal mode because of the arm position?
Speaking of the arm position – you can open the arm and show an upper body rotation (center of the chest to center of the jump) but try not to lean back at all, try to keep moving straight up the line, and while moving, keep your upper body showing the serp position until you see him turn to look at the next jump (I know, I am very demanding hahaha)
The reason I mentioned keeping your upper body in serp position (arm back, your eyes on his eyes, and center of the chest facing center of the bar) is that you were trying to pull him in then send him out by turning your dog side arm forward. That can end up cuing the dog to go past the next jump and that is what happened at :14 – you closed your shoulder forward to try to point to the next jump, which sent him right past the jump (line of shoulders cued that) so he was correct to go to the the toy AND you said get it… so don’t call him off it 🙂 If he ends up going to the toy unexpectedly, don’t call him off. Either change the handling on the next rep, or watch the video if you are not sure about what happened.
So ideally you have the serp position showing as you move up the line nice and early, and maintain it after he lands from the serp jump and until he looks at the next jump (while running up the line, of course :)) Then you can ‘release’ the upper body position and move to the next line.
He definitely seems ready for you to tighten up the angles a bit, so he has to get more of the in-then-out action on his jumping. Is Leslie doing any zig zag jumping drills in her online class? She has great stuff!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
These all are looking good!On the teeter game – he was happy to interact with it, and he was happy to get on and turn around to come forward into the end position. He had trouble backing up into the position. At first, I think he was trying to follow the food, so you can hold the food perfectly still and let him move away from it. When the food stopped moving, there was probably too much tip for him to back up onto it, so reduce the tip to almost nothing, and he might feel more comfy backing up onto it (will the teeter board touch the ground without the green square under it?)
The handling all went really well!
The first FC video looked good! You can get a little further ahead so he sees you before he exits the tunnel by sending to the tunnel entry more – that will make a smoother line to the wing.
2nd video – good job getting ahead to set a clear line to the wing! On the first rep, yes, he totally read it as a spin 🙂 More connection was needed on the FC exit and go more directly to the tunnel entry you want (good reward there even though it did not go perfectly as planned). That is exactly what you did on the 2nd rep – great connection and line to the tunnel – that made a BIG difference. He nailed it!
On the last video – The first spin looked great! The 2nd spin was a tiny bit late but still good! Yay!
Great job on these, baby boy is growing up!!
TracyGood morning!
>>I have to be more like a wide receiver.
YES! I use this analogy all the time: be a wide receiver! LOL!
>> And yeah, that lead change before takeoff in that one rep was pretty cool. Haha, and kicking up dirt after landing is not so bueno.
Yes, the collection stride was lovely! And I don’t mind kicking up dirt – you have a great running surface for her! Kicking up dirt is better than slipping or falling, which often happens on mats or indoor turf 🙁
>> Say you have a serp line with three jumps, but you only want to take the first and third jump. So out over the first and in over the third, skipping (layering) the second. So to cue that we would run straight across the second jump with no shoulder rotation until the third jump?>
Great question about a layering challenge that is getting more popular lately! I run straight across the 2nd jump with my dog side arm up high and deliberately blocking connection – that helps cue the layering, as does the verbal cue: GO! is helpful 🙂
That makes for a pretty dramatic contrast with the serp cues (physical and verbal) and helps the dog understand the layering. I present both to the dogs starting pretty early in their careers, because they are now seeing those skills in novice!
Looking at the tunnel exits:
The go reps at the beginning looked good!
On the soft turn exits, the motion helps her find the line too, so she had a few questions when the motion and verbal did not match.
You can reward that first rep – she exited the tunnel looking to her left because the verbal said left but you were facing forward as she went in at :13, so she was not sure if it was a tight left or not.So as she is approaching the tunnel and you are saying left or right, you can also peel away laterally to the next wing (rather than go straight) to help get the nice tight turn 🙂 And be careful not to accelerate straight – that will get her looking the correct direction but not necessarily turning tight (like at 1:34).
Great job on the rear crosses! She had lovely commitment to the tunnel, and it looks like she turned the correct direction every single time! YAY!!!
She had a couple of questions about getting into the tunnel when she was starting on your right (like at 1:57 and 2:15) and needed to rear cross to her right. That was mainly because you were facing forward and not turning to face the tunnel, so you can show more motion getting into them by turning to face the center of the tunnel entry hole more like you did at 2:37 where she got it really nicely!!
On the other side, like at 2:04, you turned to the tunnel more so she didn’t have the same question.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
It might be that your other dog was the distraction – sometimes different dogs are easy, but the “brother” barking might be harder to ignore.Tracy
Good morning!
>. I left the Two Wings video “whole” so that you could see our (read, my) bloopers. We seems to be getting the wrap motion better, but now it seems I’m not making connection correctly.>>
Thanks! Yes, there were human bloopers 🙂 You started out with lots of rewards but then stopped rewarding, which was confusing her and she slowed down. So…. live by the 2 Failure rule! Reward everything and if there are 2 errors in the session, change something to make it easier… one more error? Stop the session and look at the video, because the video will give you full picture 🙂
What was happening when she was going to the tunnel and not the wing (:06, 1:44, 2:31, 3:09, 5:49) was that you were blocking the wing and then took a big step to send to it… which actually cued the tunnel, so she was correct (and she was pretty vehement about it).
At 3:26, you showed more of the wing and stepped to it more, so she went to the wing. Yay! It is hard to see on the angle of the video, but you will want to be sure she can see at least half of the wing (ideally, the whole wing) so you don’t push her off the line.
The other question she had was finding the tunnel entry you wanted after she got the wing – that was a motion and connection question. You were stepping back a little and then when you cued the tunnel, you looked forward. So two things were happening there: the connection shift to the tunnel caused your shoulders to turn and look like a blind (so she went to the new side) and since she was looking that direction when you said tunnel… off she went to the tunnel on her line. Good girl!
When you did make the big connection to her eyes before you said tunnel, and stayed connected… she got it perfectly 🙂
She is a very honest critter so if something goes wrong more than once…watch the video to see what she is seeing (or add more direct connection if she is ending up on the other side of you).
Looking a the serps video:
The first sequence went well! Nice job working to keep your shoulders open to the jump after the tunnel on the first sequence – serps are all about the shoulders staying open to the jump and connection to her eyes when she lands from the serp jump.
On the second sequence:
This one was harder to keep the shoulders open to the jump, because there is more speed and movement 🙂She was not coming in for the serp at :24 because your shoulders were closed forward, which is actually a cue to layer. So, as soon as she is taking off for jump one, rotate your shoulders to face the jump and look back at your hand (which is over the landing spot as you move through). That should cue her to come in over the jump without needing to turn your feet as well – the foot rotation makes the cue look like the beginning of a front cross (like at :43) which gets too much turn over the serp jump.
Same goes for the jump after the tunnel – when she exits the tunnel, your shoulders should already be facing the bar of the serp jump. Calling her before she enters the tunnel will help get a nicer turn too.
At :28, you had your shoulders forward so she jumped straight (correctly). Compare that to :47 where your shoulders were facing the serp jump a lot better, and you had much clearer connection when she was landing, so she read it really well. YAY!So keep fighting for that shoulder turn and connection without turning your feet – that is what makes serps pretty challenging! If she has trouble coming in, you can slow down your motion, but don’t rotate your feet (and check the video during the session to be sure that your shoulders are rotated so the center of your chest is facing the center of the bar the whole time.
Tunnel exits video: the first 2 reps of GO looked great – hard to see where the wing was, but hopefully she got rewarded for those super straight exits!
On the other side (:24) she exited straight but did not take the wing – the wing is not exactly on the line, so she needs a little more connection on the tunnel exit so she can shift out to pick up the line to it.The soft turn exits were a little wide –
The right verbal can come sooner at :39 and 1:03 but more importantly, be sure to show her the physical cue that matches the verbal. On these reps and also on the left turn rep at 1:41, your verbals were good but your physical cue was accelerated and forward, like the Go… so she exited wide. She was turning, but also saw all the acceleration, so she was in extension. To match the cues up, as you say the left or right, you can also peel away to the wing after the turn. When she sees the motion support the verbal cue, she will turn nice and tight on those tunnel exits 🙂She has great commitment to the tunnel on the rear crosses! And she turned really well: On the RC to the right at 1:48 and 2:13, both the verbal and the physical cue were early (about 4 or 5 feet before she was in the tunnel), and clear info where the physical cue supported the verbal, so she nailed it
At 2:36, the verbal left cue was a little late (she was just about entering the tunnel) but physical cue was strong so she turned really well.
The rear crosses were great examples of how the verbal and physical cues can match up to get great turns.
Great job here with these challenging setups! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
She did really well here – her only question was on jump 6, everything else looked great!On the first video: The opening line went really well, especially the switch from 4 into the layering 5. She missed 6 because the placement on the jump (the way it is built here) would require a lead change away from you, which needs to be cued. So she went past it to the next jump on the line, good girl!
Remember that all effort needs to be rewarded either by continuing then finishing strong, or throwing a reward, because errors on course are handler errors! The opening went really well but then she didn’t get rewarded (you stopped and praised, but the GSP Union Contract says that stopping & praising is not actually a reward LOL! The Terrier Union Contract agrees.)
You did send her back aruond and you said out, but your shoulders turned forward so she went with the physical cue and stayed on the line past the jump.
Doing it without the layer (2nd video) allowed you to set the line nicely with motion! Yay! It made it harder to get exit of the backside at 8 – you were not quite connected and were moving laterally so she ended up on the other side of you – but she saved your b*tt and found the jump. GOOD GIRL! I am glad you did not stop her there and let her take the last jump – she was great and definitely deserved the reward!
Breaking down the layering with the target (3rd video) was great – it helped her look forward on “out” line even when your motion was not showing the out. That can help strengthen the verbal a lot! You can add handling help by using an outside arm on the ‘out’ cue, to give a bigger cue while layering. That can help fade out the target and still support the line with the physical cue.
Nice work here!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
