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Good morning!
VERY Nice session here on the threadles, especially when he caught himself and corrected his line to the threadle side, SUPER!! Remember to keep your shoulders locked in position til after he is at the MM (you were closing them forward and that will makes things harder when we add more motion.
You can move the MM more to the slice exit line, so he is jumping more on a slice and not as much of a U-shaped turn (this slice line exit simulates more of what he will see on course with threadles and also begins to help him get organized for that sideways jumping effort he will have to do on slice lines.
Have you decided on your threadle slice verbal yet? It is time to replace “break” with the threadle slice verbal cue 🙂
The head turning is definitely looking good! Much clearer mechanics and we can see him turning his head in that exaggerated way that indicates he is getting the idea. Your clicks were timely on the left turns (clicking that head turn moment and can even be sooner on the left turns). You were late with the clicks on the right turns in the 2nd half of the session – the clicks were coming when he exited the barrel wrap and was facing you. So remember to be clicking basically as soon as you finish the hand cue and you see his nose turn away from you.
The RCs are definitely looking better! I think the sudden explosion of movement when you release from the stay is making it harder for both of you: you move fast which draws his attention towards you and away from the prop and line. You are compensating by saying ‘go go go’ and using a swooshy arm – we definitely want to take out the go verbal because it is not a go and we don’t want to dilute it or confuse him when we add go on a go line.
So the easiest thing to do is play with ways that you don’t have to explode forward: you can try starting with a cookie toss away from you and the prop instead of from a stay) so that he turns and starts moving up the line – and you can also be in a steady motion at that point (rather than sudden acceleration) and see if he will go past you to the prop while you cut in behind him to the new side. That will help build up even more success!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> Do you have different verbals for Tunnel threadle, Threadle slice, and Threadle wrap?>>
Yes 🙂 They are 3 entirely different behaviors and require different cues.
Tunnel threadle: kiss kiss
Threadle slice on jumps: close
threadle wrap on jumps: in inHaving the same threadle verbal for jumps and tunnels doesn’t work anymore, because course designers put the jumps and the tunnels right next to each other. And if the verbal is the same, the dogs cannot use the verbal and will rely on our physical cues.
T
Hi!
This is the Volume dial arousal game – He definitely looked engaged here and was doing well managing his arousal! He had a little bit of trouble differentiating some of the cues.
He might need a hand cue for the spin/twist cues – I think he was confused as to whether they were downs or sits or spins, so feel free to use hand cues too! And also, it looks like he would down or sit if you leaned towards him – so try to use verbals and hand cues, but no body pressure, to help him differentiate the cues when he is more stimulated 🙂Great job on all of these!
TracyHi!
This is the Reverse retrieve – easy and fun! He really liked this!! Since this was super easy for him, You can go to the higher level of this where he is in a say facing you – you release him, drop the toy next to you, tell him to get it… all while you are running away before he even passes you to get to the toy. If that proves to be too hard, you can dial back your motion and just walk forward while he passes you to get the toy.T
Hi!
These are more Backsides, starting on the other side. As with the previous video, be sure to start with him in a stay so you can be moving before he starts to move and before he makes a decision about where to go – he ended up on the front on the first rep because you didn’t set it with motion from ahead.
So try it with him in a stay so that your line of motion can start to get further and further across the bump – start with your line going to where the bar and the bump meet. Then move over so your line of motion is straight to the center of the bump (but keep rewarding like you did on the landing side) and eventually you can be all the way across the bump, where the 2nd wing would be 🙂T
The Perch work here is going well too – he generally has the idea of lifting his feet over the bumps while moving around the perch.
He is sometimes having a little trouble (landing on the bumps a bit) and I think it is because he has to process his footwork AND process your movement… so I think it would be good to fade your movement now (especially if he is also doing obedience), where you want the pivots without your movement. So you can either stand still (or move very very little) and reward him for offering, or you can use the angled cookie tosses to let him return to center. He seems ready for us to start taking out your movement!
T
These are Backside parallel path lines – he is reading these well too!
Now we can start adding more independence in the form of lateral distance, so you don’t need to move to the barrel as much to get him to go to the backside. Setting the line with motion is the key: To be able to get further across the bump (adding independence), start with him in a stay facing his line to the backside barrel entry. He will stay while you walk forward a few steps, then you will release him (as you stay in motion) and let motion support his line to the backside. Be sure to remain connected back to him, and keep dropping the reward on the landing side of the bump.And if he is fine and dandy with that… you can add your backside slice verbal 🙂 The backside slice verbal is a release too, so you can start moving then release with the backside slice verbal.
T
Hi!
These are threadles the other direction – also looking super good! I will keep bugging you to look at your hand and freeze your shoulders LOL!
Have you chosen your threadle slice word yet? You can replace your “break” verbal with the threadle verbal now, I think he is ready for that! The threadle slice word is also a release so it can be used in this situation.
He also had very nice focus on the game here – it sounds like there was plenty of activity happening around him and he ignored it! Good boy!!!
T
These are Threadle slices – He is reading these really well too!! Good job moving the toy further across the line on the 2nd and 3rd reps so he can slice and take one more stride to the toy. That worked nicely!
As with serps – release and look at your hand (you looked at your hand nicely on the 3rd rep!) but don’t move your shoulders til after he is at the reward 🙂 We will be adding handler motion soon!T
Hi!
These are Serps: looking good! Two small details:When you release from the stay, look at your serp hand – this will help when we add motion soon because it will help direct his focus. And as he is coming over the jump, don’t move your shoulders til after he gets to the toy because we don’t want you to rehearse shoulder movement as part of the cue (serp shoulders stay ‘locked’ in place as you run the line on course). This will be the same for threadles too: look at the cue hand, don’t move your shoulders til after he arrives at the reward (you can keep using your marker to cue getting the reward, that was great!)
T
Hi!
>> I understand the logical meaning of your comment:
“The main thing with this exercise is to be hyper-clear with the mechanics…”
but that isn’t the same as applying the mechanics correctly in real life.>>Yes and no… in agility, our mechanics can generally be classified as “good enough” because we don’t need a lot of precision in the cue or the reinforcement in order to teach the dog (which is part of the reason I don’t use a clicker a lot in agility anymore). You can be correct without being super precise. But this head turn game is one of the few things that needs an exactness and precision in the mechanics, especially in the early stages, because we are trying to isolate and mark a relatively ‘small’ behavior. That level of precision usually involves us slowing things down and getting really close, so that the dog can see the small hand cue that elicits the behavior.
Trying it with an adult dog is great, because the adults give us good feedback! Enzo was giving excellent feedback, so try not to mark anything with “no” (especially because your verbals were ‘go’ based at the beginning and your cues were not always clear, so he was not wrong to ask questions).
So looking at the Enzo video:
The hand cue for the turn is a little too high and too soon, which is why he had questions at :02 and :18, for example. He figured it out because he is experienced but those questions are the same ones Casper will have (but Casper won’t have the same experience to sort it out).So when he starts on your left, for example: send to the barrel then get your left hand low (nose level) so as he exits, the barrel, your hand is *right there*. When his nose is about 2 inches from your left hand, use that hand to draw him around a bit and flip his head away – and the instant he turns his head away, click and toss.
With the hand higher, he is going to look at you more and you will get more looking at you if you do more than twice around (most of these were 3)
For timing – an example of the best timing of the click here was on the rep that started at :32 – he went around once, then you clicked just after he turned his head on the 2nd time around – super!!! The only thing I would add to this is the strong hand cue (in front of the dog’s nose and delivering the cue. Your left hand was not really cuing the turn, you were using verbals and a bit of shoulder pressure. And adult dog will read it, but a puppy is not likely to read the turn cue. And even with an adult dog, it is harder to isolate the head-turn moment because we are not specifically eliciting it. That will make the clicks a little late because it is harder for us to predict when it will happen. But when we elicit it, the clicks will be more timely because we can predict that is it about to happen 🙂
And yes, we do fade the cue but that is after we see the dogs have the lightbulb moment and really begin to turn their heads. You will see the dogs exaggerate it rather than just move around the barrel (which is part of the reason I went back to a single upright to teach it, because the dogs could really exaggerate it more in that context). I think Enzo knew it was something about wrapping the barrel… but I am no sure if he knew it was the head turn. So try the hand cue to elicit it and see what happens 🙂
Let me know what you think and keep me posted!
TracyHi!
>>She is starting to expect the version without motion when we are at trial sites, so adding motion did not seem to phase her. The game seems to reduce the “bigness” of the environment for her. I can see her focus area get smaller once we start playing. She is not looking way off into the distance, but just paying attention to her close surroundings.>>
That is a really interesting insight, about the ‘bigness’ of the environment! And I am glad she is doing well!!!!
>>Is she ready to start on the Handling Combos! Acceleration, Decel, Turns, Blinds, and Front Crosses game? Or keep going with this one?>>
Yes, you can totally add those! And mix in more rocking horses too – keep things spicy so it doesn’t get repetitive.
Looking at the rear crosses: this went really well!!!
The dustpan made a perfect treat holder to start the rear crosses! The next steps would be to start her further away from it, so you can cut behind her sooner (you will have more room to do it if you start 8 or 10 feet away). That way you can also stand up more. And the dustpan can start to move off the wall, so it is more on a straight line ahead like a jump would be. And you can try hre harder side (but keep the dustpan again the wall to help her out on those).The tunnel games looked great! She was very happy to run through it to the Manners Minder LOL! The Boingzinga moment was hilarious! Since she was so happy to run through the tunnel, you can start to add the verbal: gently hold her collar (or a harness, whatever is easier), say tunnel 3 or 4 times… then let her go so she can run through it. You can also start to move the MM a couple of feet away from the exit, to get even more speed 🙂
>>Also, what is the next class after this one? I totally want to keep going! This is an amazing class.>>
I am glad you are having fun!!! This class will wrap up in late February (to give everyone time to finish he games) and MaxPup 2 will start in March (mid to late march – I need to get the exact dates sorted out this week!! You current MaxPup folks will get first crack at it before it goes public.
Great job!!
TracyHi!
>> so I can work the threadle at the barn or once I can get outside.
Yes, it is fine to put the threadle on the back burner for now – it is a low priority compared to the other things like learning to drive lines.
>> Dreamer has so little collection that I hope Casper will have more. Though Casper will be small so I don’t know how much collection he’ll need to have.>>
He will totally have a great collection understanding! And since he is little, he will not need a TON of collection but he will need to know how to set up his turns.
>>Wasn’t the pool noodle cute? LOL he does make me laugh this silly guy. It’s all about play for him, which is awesome.>>
You can probably use the pool noodle as a tug toy!!
>>Changing focus a bit, I have been during perch work with him since he was little. I usually step around the perch, so that’s where we are now. However, I really like your idea of tossing the cookie at an angle, then when he gets back on the perch and moves his rear to face me, click/treat for rear movement! I can work on that.>>
The hardest part about training little fast dogs is that their little feet move SO FAST that we need to be insanely quick with the rewards. Your clicks were good here, but the reward delivery was a little slow and he was adding front foot movement and hopping up – so even though you were rewarding pretty quickly, you need to be faster LOL! How to be faster? You can already have the treats right in front of his nose, either by bending down so the treats are nose-level the whole time (just below your knees), or fade out your motion and you can be sitting on a couch or chair or something. Goal is to have virtually no time between the click and delivery, because everything between the click and the delivery gets built into the behavior (I learned this the hard way with my first small dog LOL!)
And the tossed treats at an angle can also totally help, because he won’t be doing any front foot tap dancing while watching the treat get delivered 🙂
Looking at the stays – the platform TOTALLY helps!!! I would only toss the treat back for him rather than deliver it in position, for the same reason as above – if you are a tiny heartbeat delayed in getting the treat to him, you will get tap-dancing of the front feet.
And with throwing the reward back to him. you can begin adding duration as you move away: when he gets on the platform and sits, you can move a tiny half step away then click and throw the reward back to him. Rewarding from your hand a lot will cause him to want to move with your hand as you move away, making it harder to get distance between you and him.
Definitely keep using the platform, it is the most “stillness” that we have seen from him! Yay!!!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! This was not a hot mess at all – this skill only needs clearer and earlier reward placement.
He is doing a good job of the in and out behavior – he doesn’t actually have to touch your hand at this point, the hand is just the cue for the in and out. He is following the hand cue mostly perfectly – when you are a little too much between the uprights, he sometimes goes to the front of the jump but that is also a reward placement issue. And when you do a little shoulder dip (like at 4:42) he reads the arm cue REALLY well!! I don’t think you need to get lower than that little dip/arm swinging back moment and when you are in motion, it won’t feel as much like leaning over.
>>I’d also be interested in exploring the arm across the chest threadle cue. Do you think that would work here? I may not feel like I have to bend down to get my hand at his face level?>>
You can play with the cross arm cue, it is definitely useful… but it won’t answer the reward placement question.
The main question he is having is about where to look for the reward, which is why he is not always coming to the correct line especially on the threadle exit. We need to hash out the reward placement before putting this back on the jump, beause he is relying on the timing of your reward throw (which is late, so he is watching for the toy throw which has become the cue to go back out). By watching for the toy as part of the cue, you are seeing him not look for the bar on the threadle exit, and sometimes come over the bar instead of to the threadle side.
>> I cannot put the toy down on the ground at the reinforcement spot since he has way more value for the toy –>>
Separately from threadles, work on the toy being able to go to the ground. You can start it with him in a sit, and shape it systematially: he is in the sit and you show him the toy: when he holds the sit for a couple more seconds, release to the toy (he doesn’t have to look at you, he can stare at the toy).
The successively work the toy to the ground while he holds the sit – keep a high rate of success, so it might take a while to get the toy to the ground because you will want to release him before he breaks the sit.
When he can hold a sit when the toy goes to the ground, you can exchange the sit behavior for a hand target: toy is halfway to the ground, dangling… you ask for the hand target. Then you can work up to putting the toy on the ground and asking for a hand target.
When he can do that, all of this threadle and serp stuff will be clear sailing 🙂 We don’t want to skip those steps with the reward, because it will muddy the threadles and serps!
Let me know what you think, and keep me posted about his progress as you get the toy to the ground 🙂
Tracy
