Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning!
I agree:
He did awesome here! Well done to YOU for marking the moment he looked ahead! That really helped him as the bowl got to the harder positions!! He was working really hard to figure it out and was fabulous 🙂He had a really high level of success – only one semi-blooper 🙂 but then he got the rest of it correctly, even when he had to pass the bowl to get to the cone. SUPER!!!
Since he did so well, you can try it with him on your right side. And you can also try it with a toy!
Great job here 🙂
Tracy
Good morning! This looked great, you are doing it correctly and he is having an easy time engaging. Yay!
This basement version of it is a place to revisit the pattern game every now and then, after you have taken it on the road and into higher arousal locations. By playing it at home in this environment as well, you will keep the game neutralized. If you only play it in high arousal environments, it will get paired with arousal, creating more arousal which we don’t want 🙂
And yes, you can take it on the road to easy environments and with great treats 🙂 I think it will be easy for him but we still want it solidly in place. And for home training, check out the new game that builds on it that was added last night:
Great job!!
Tracy
Good morning! This looked great! Your countermotion on the 2nd rep looked really strong. The only thing to add here is looking at him when you throw the toy, so you can see if he is looking forward, and so he can get used to looking forward when you are looking at him 🙂
All of the pieces of the games are looking really good (decel, driving ahead, blinds, etc), so you can add the handling combos from last week and this week, where we are sequencing the flat work into mini courses: first on the flat, then adding the barrel wraps.
Great job!!!!
TracyGood morning! Great seeing you in class last night! She did GREAT!!!
The balance here looked really good – I like that you are moving very slowly so that she is not trying to move fast either. We want slow careful movement at this point. You can build on this in two ways:
Using this same set up, work it in higher arousal. It is simple to add it: just do tugging before you ask her to hop up on the balance objects. That will incorporate more arousal regulation in proprioception, which is great for her future in dog sports: can she be running fast, very exciting, and still have great balance and footwork?!?! This helps build it 🙂
The other thing to add is make a pile of crazy stuff that is different in terms of texture and movement – and get her tugging then let her offer walking around on it for treats. That can also help with balance and proprioception in higher arousal. We will be doing it soon in this class, but there is what it looks like:
Great job! Have fun!
Tracy
Good morning!
Thanks for the run!!I think he did really really well – it was a hard sequence!! The end of run stuff sounds good too. And that is great news about his crating at class getting easier, because that will help overall arousal and engagement.
>Do I own the disconnect at the start? Left him on the line for a while getting rid of stuff.>
Yes – when he entered the ring he was engaged and ready to roll. You got to the start line at :15. You can give bigger praise for the hand touches and tricks, that can help get arousal going there too!
The dog doing the tunnel behind him was hard but he stuck with you! That was at :21. I think 6 seconds or so to get off the line is great – that will maintain the engagement.
When he took off for the other ring, it was at :48. That is a solid 33 seconds after getting to the line and that is the length of a full standard run 🙂 So he came in with good engagement but that went away during the long wait. So try to get to the line fast and get him moving fast.
He stuck with you nicely as you got moving and also as you worked through the in in – that is hard and he was great! The sequence worked looked great so I think getting into the line and releasing to start as quickly as possible will really help him.
Nice work!
TracyGood morning!
I think she did well entering on leash and leaving the toy outside the ring. It is something to do in practice but you can also mix in having rewards in the ring with you, to keep the balance of value very high in the ring.
Will she tug on the leash? That is like bringing a toy into the ring 🙂
One thing I notice with her – she is very clever and learns the sequences by the 2nd or 3rd rep. So you might be trying to change handling or timing, but she has learned the sequence so the handling matters less. You can mix up which sequence you do more frequently, so she does’t know which one you are going to do – and you will get better feedback from her about the handling and timing.
Overall things went super nicely! The hardest part was the darned pole LOL!
Sequence 1 – great lead out position to make the next line easier! Be sure that you set her up in her stay so she is angled facing the tunnel – when she was facing straight on jump 1 at 1:38 for example, it was harder to get the tunnel because she had to turn (she barked at you there) and you had to step to it, which negates a bit of the lateral position.
Be sure to give her exit cues for the tunnel before she enters, rather than wait to cue as she is exiting – you got a bit of a head check on the way to 3 on the first rep. She did not do it on the other reps, because she knew the sequence 🙂
2nd rep – Getting the last jump behind the pole was the hard part of this sequence. Be sure to keep your threadle arm back and keep moving to the jump until she commits to it. When you did that like at :38, she got it easily. When you pulled her in and tried to sent her back out, it changed your line so she had trouble finding the jump.
Sequence 2:
Being lateral on the opening is great! Be sure to face the tunnel longer at (3:01 and 3:17 for example) and tell her about it sooner (as she is looking at 2 but still a stride or two before takeoff) so she jumps 2 looking at itFor the FC: you can use your lateral distance to be past 5 and start it when she lands from 4 and looks at 5. It was a little late at 3:21 and 3:53 (starting when she was jumping. The BC worked well there at 4:19 – it can be sooner too, but because it is quicker to finish a BC than a FC, you were able to show her the new side sooner.
As soon as you finish the FC or BC, go right into the decel and wrap cues for the next jump. Stepping forward sends her wide (like at 3:24 :)) after that she figured out the sequence, but you can get a tighter turn there with the wrap cues coming as soon as she finds the line after the cross. The BC probably makes it easier to start those cues.
Seq 3: this has a similar FC as the previous sequence and your timing was definitely earlier at 4:40 and 5:16! That created a really nice turn and the rest of the sequence looked lovely!
On the wrap – you were a little late at 6:02 and using a post turn made it hard to get the smooth line.
I think the spin worked great there and that is what you used on the rest of the runs. You can do it sooner by decelerating as she exit the tunnel and starting the rotation before she passes you. That way the spin can be finished sooner and you can be moving up the line to the next jump (towards the exit wing).
When the spin finished a little late, you pushed back towards the next jump which is what pushed her around the pole to the other side (like a backside cue). If you keep moving forward rather than stepping into her, she should find the front easily even with the pole there 🙂
Great job here!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Determined that leftover turkey is yummy and enough to keep her fairly engaged to go by other dogs in the class (including a pretty energetic Doberman and a barking mini Aussie- the latter took more turkey).>
That is a good variety of dogs to learn to ignore!!
> And that the 5 rabbit fur tug toys I tied together for a monster toy was not to her liking in the ring even though she thought it was super awesome at home. >
It probably falls into the category of different arousal states making sensory things feel different. Might have been perfect at home but toooooo much in class. It is worth it to try again at some point, as she gets more experienced in class!
> I used lots of turkey & cheese in the ring, but figured it couldn’t hurt to also throw in running to our happy hour station after we were done each time.>
Absolutely! Great way to build value!
Looking at the first video:
There were a lot more challenges in the environment here, which is good! New dogs, the instructor very close to the opening line, ring crew, etc. All good challenges!And when the variables ramp up, we can assume a young dog brain will prioritize processing those – the science says that those things can literally look bigger than reality, making other things look smaller or not even really visible. So the instructor might have looked HUGE to her, making everything else look smaller. The brain does strange things LOL!!
So what I think is happening is that when you are insanely clear about setting the line from ahead of her (or in motion beside her when she is already on the line) then she is able to process. You had some of that happen on the first run!
But if you are not clear, either starting right next to her (which doesn’t really set the line) or turning your shoulders away from the line too soon – she can’t find the jump or tunnel. And the tunnel under the frame was hard visually – she did it well at first but then it go harder as arousal came up.
> but that was clearly too much delay of game and she cussed me out after that. >
I don’t think it was the delay, per se – it was more all of the processing challenges and then you didn’t really set the line to jump 1, with the instructor right there. That made it hard! Definitely normal processing challenges with young dogs.
>She did take her first panel jump and double though. >
Yay!
>Then wasnt’ sure she could put her head through her leash.>
When the other variables are harder, you can make that easier by luring her through with a giant cheese nugget 🙂
Run 2:
>She also seemed to like having a chance to shake after I took the leash off and before we started.>
Yes, that is a great re-set in that moment!
All sorts of pressure moving into the ring with the people walking in and out and the gate slamming. Very trial like!!
Moving past the instructor with the tunnel under the a-frame? HARD! Especially the 2nd time on your left. She definitely avoided the line that put her between you and the instructor. Not sure if it was because of the pressure of the person, or with the tunnel under the frame, or both. Instructor moved away – Lift hesitated then said she could do it. Very useful info!!!
That tells me that she should do pattern games in the ring, getting closer and closer to the ‘judge’ who will generally be hanging out near contacts. Then when her engagement is super duper snappy – you can lazy game lines where there is high pressure, to help with processing: tossed rewards for finding the obstacle while you walk past without perfect connection, but with he distraction in the environment.
Getting the leash back on and the line without pressure (jumps with the one ring crew person in the chair) looked great! So this is all really great info about the pressure in the ring and how we can help her out.
>After this we practiced a a few minutes of engaged chill with her standing on my thights while I was crouched down and also with her in my lap while I was sitting in a chair.>
Awesome!!!!! !
>I watched her video from the Loretta M seminar we did back in August where she was running 10 obstacle sequences mostly silently and comparing that to the last few weeks and I think her pop rocks moments are happening more often now.>
I think it is a combination of things – mostly pressure being added in the form of more people/dogs around, and more remote reinforcement work (which is also pressure). It is a balancing act – if the environment adds pressure, you can dial back the other pressures by doing things like simple short sequences, having the rewards in your hands, games near the pressure but without obstacles, etc.
My guess is that the seminar with Loretta was a pretty typical quiet young dog seminar! And she can do 10 obstacle sequences in those environments 🙂 So in the hard environments, you can simplify that element because the other elements have gotten a lot harder 🙂
And teaching her to deal with the pressure of the added challenges is definitely stuff you can do while she is recovering from the spay!
Nice work here! Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning! I guess I didn’t hear the conversation at he beginning where your paparazzi told you that you were up now, not in 2 dogs. Good job keeping calm! I am not sure if you wee quite ready or not, but you just went in and did great. Yay!
Basing was fabulous – looked very comfy and really had fun killing the toy toy 🙂 Nice connection!!! And great choice of what to do. Plus she didn’t seem phased by all the horns.
>We have an outdoor, 1 ring trial on grass this weekend. We are there fri, sat & sun. She is entered on Saturday for FEO.>
Is she entered in more than one class? It might be fun to do a bit more of a course, such as starting at the beginning so she gets used to the leash runner, timing lights, etc. But if it is a crappy course, make up your own sequence instead LOL!!!
There are a bunch of young-dog friendly USDAA trials in Florida over the winter, and starters jumpers is jumps & tunnels only. And the runs are cheap! LOL!! Something to consider 🙂 I will be in FL over the winter so I will go with you if there is one that fits the calendar.
Looking at the RR stations video – the flow was looking good! The only thing that looked hard was when you were throwing the leash at the beginning 🙂 Tugging when she is amped up is something to play with, because struggles with tugging can be a great indicator of where her arousal level is: can she let go of the toy and go into a pattern game? Definitely something fun to play with! And yes, you can mix in getting the leash back on before heading to the bowl, so she is used to that for the end of the run.
You can add in sequence work – maybe take a sequence from class, and use this game at the start to help her run a short fast sequence ‘for real’ with the rewards behind her.
>Also, can I never say “let’s go” in other contexts in life? I notice that I say it often around the house. Let’s go get dinner, let’s go back to work, let’s go potty…>
In theory, that is correct. We should only ever use a verbal cue in the correct context and when we want that exact behavior. That would mean we should not say ‘let’s go’ or left/right or even her name, right? Or discuss obstacles when she can hear it – if I say tunnel when we are in the kitchen, she should go in a tunnel. LOL! Eeeeek! But life is not a laboratory! So we are strongly relying on the dogs’ understanding of context, meaning that the verbals can definitely have different meanings in different situations. And dogs are brilliant with this! So I am not worried if you say let’s go in other contexts, she will know the difference. Context cues are powerful!
Great job here!
TracyAh this is so true! And as someone new to the breed, I was really surprised about the strange things people said to me – and these people were high level trainers/competitors LOL!! But we just get out there and prove them wrong 🙂
T
Good morning!
Yes, motion to get 4 and then getting the FC on 5 made it hard to not get the bonus jump. Good job continuing as if she was correct (because she was :)) She is finding 4 better and better each time!
Video 3 you got past 5 a lot sooner so the FC was starting before takeoff. Yay! So she read it really well! Then you got excited and pulled her off of 7 🙂
On the last video, you cued 5-6 as a post turn and then a rear cross to 7 and it worked! It slowed you both down and put you behind her though, which could cause trouble somewhere else on a bigger course. I think the FC you did on video 3 put you in a better position (ahead of her) and being ahead is always a good thing.
To make it even easier to get the turn 5-6, this is a good spot to work on layering skills! Starting even closer to 1 and 2, send to tunnel 3 and layer the 6 jump – and get her to take 4 while you are layering. You can use a placed reward to help her drive to 4 at first to teach the layering, then the understanding and verbal will take over and you can take out the placed reward.
Great job here! Fingers crossed for decent weather ahead!
Tracy
Good morning!
The last zoom chat is next Monday, but we are keeping the forum open for a few more weeks after that!
>step 1. per the above, go to the rally class and have dogs warm up, outside the ring.>
Yes! And if there is a running order like there is in agility class, you can have him out and getting ready while the previous dog is finishing their turn. Build up to making it trial-like!
>step 2. If Knight passes step 1, then I could possibly arrange with an agility instructor at a different location to do the pattern game, spin, bounce, etc outside the ring and then enter the ring, go to jump 1 and see his reaction similar to what I did on video at the rally class. >>
Also yes! There are lots of good agility instructors in your area that will allow a drop in.
And in classes, mix in runs that are fun without all the pressure: easy fast courses where you do have cookies in the ring.
>If reaction is positive, take collar off and have him go over the jump and put collar on and say lets go and go to his goodies outside the ring.>
Yes, and maybe do a short fun sequence.
>If reaction is shutdown, run him out of the ring and say lets go and get his goodies.>
Ideally the doesn’t happen. Rather than take the collar off, you can also start him near a tunnel (he loves tunnels, right?) and take the leash off, gently hold his collar, and do a ready-set-go! And run through the tunnel. Or if he gets concerned, rather than leave the ring, you can relieve the pressure by moving him further from the people/dogs and start more in the center of the ring and see if that helps.
> If he does shut down, what are your thoughts on proceeding to the second round? Take back in and run him back out if he shuts down?>
I don’t want to develop running out to cookies as a coping strategy if he gets concerned. So if he is concerned in round 1, you can set up round 2 to have food in the ring – the reward station can be inside the ring instead of outside the ring (a small chair that you put your cookies on after entering the ring. In fact, this might be a better approach in new environments: have the reward station inside ther ring for now rather than outside the ring.
>Also where I train at there is a UKI trial every month through the winter (Dec through April) with mulligans. My thinking is doing the pattern games outside the ring which I know he will be happy doing the first day. Second day only sign up for one run. Pattern games. >
Remember to do tricks too! If you sign up for a run, I think it is a good time to find something he will enjoy inside the ring, like a lotus ball on a fur toy that he can chase around. That way there is a toy inside the ring! And his reward station should be right outside the ring and he should be able to see it.
>Take him in the ring. Gage him. If he is in shutdown mode, run him out of the ring and go get the goodies.>
Again, I don’t want to develop a habit of shutdown inside the ring then get cookies. Instead of taking the leash off to see if he shuts down, you can do in, get a fun trick, run out for cookies. So rather than test to see what he does, approach it as asking for really easy fun things on leash. If he can do a trick, run back in and take the leash off and o a trick then run out for a cookie. Do this during a Mulligan run, where there are no rules (I am sure your trainer will want to help you, especially if it the last Mulligan run). And you can also do a ready-set-go start.
> If engage, take collar off and do a jump or a contact (second day first runs are agility. He loves the dog walk, teeter) and out of the ring and do a mulligan.>
You can include contacts for sure in the in and out fun times. This plus the tricks inside the ring and mixing in runs where you can drag the toy around for him to chase can all build up to letting him have fun in the ring.
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
He did fine with the snuffling, of course 🙂 He was very happy to do it and looked relaxed!
And yes, it is designed to help return to baseline and balance arousal (especially after a run, or when waiting and trying to chill).So the real questions are, then:
– was this before a run? If so, how did the run go? And what else did you do before the run?
– was this after a run? If so, was he able to settle nicely? And how did the next run go?We observe all of this to see how it works – helpful or not? In the right spot in the warm up to the run or after a run? And we try it multiple times to see if we can find trends in his home base training location as well as other locations. Think of it as collecting data, since we can’t stick electrodes in him LOL!!!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Doing it as a quieter, looped exercise worked well especially if he needed a little confidence rebuilding when the sends went a little sideways. He did really well with the arm and leg step added at the end! For the video, try to get a fuller picture so we can see your upper body cues as well (not just his cuteness :)) as that can give us insight into what he needs as a cue and what is happening when he is not sure.Now that things are back on track… add in a little arousal with a bit of ready game. The arousal regulation is a big piece of this puzzle, so start adding it back and we can see if he has questions or not. And if he has questions, we can totally answer them of course 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
> We are still struggling with me moving. I’ve been trying to wait for him to start moving first to go but if he knows I’m coming he’ll hold back to nip at me.>
I totally see what you mean here!
2 ideas for you to help him drive away rather than waiting for you to give you tooth hugs:
When using a toy, add in a helper! The dead toy might not be as exciting as your moving flesh 🙂 Have to person running away, dragging the toy (a hollee roller or something big attached to a long toy would be perfect). Then you can do a ready set go and race him to it. At first, the other person and be walking fast or jogging, and not too far away (and you can send him to it without you if he needs to get the idea of this variation).
Then as he gets confident with it, the toy dragger can move faster and start further away.Separately, you can use food instead – throw a big chunk of cheese and see if he drives to it better (or have it in a bowl). Food might make it easier for him to ignore your motion than a dead toy.
Let me know how that goes!
Wing wraps: the cone was perfect for this! You can have him go back and forth around the cone so you work both directions in the same session, rather than line him up to go the same direction each time. The right turns looked easy (that seems to be how he rolls :)) and he had a little trouble turning left on the 2nd video. For the left turns, do shorter sessions – and you can add the harder stuff like turn and burn to the right turn reps. He needed a little bit of a break mainly because the left turns were harder.
I bet he would like the toy on this game too – rather than a cookie reward for coming to the other side of the cone, you can smack a toy down and drag it for him to tug on 🙂
The blinds look great! Really nice connection back to him and you were really connecting after the side change. Just be sure to give yourself a head start so he doesn’t catch up to quickly LOL!
You can add in the decel and pivot to the blind crosses, you can see it in the collection sandwich game 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
