Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Yes, I agree about props – but every time I use one, I am also planning to NOT use it and fade it out 🙂 So if I don’t need it, I won’t use it 🙂 I have trained all of my dogs to stay without using props because I am too lazy to have to fade it out hahaha!!!
Keep me posted!
Tracy
Good morning!
He did so great here!!! It was a challenging setup and he was super successful. Happy dance! His brain was totally aware of the distraction at the beginning but was able to tune it out in favor of playing the prop game. You chose a good game to play – lots of value for the target so he was better able to tune out the distractions.
He also did great as you increased the challenge. A bad cookie bounce at :52 (you threw it straight and it bounced to the side) brought him right toward the distraction cookies but he was still able to resist it and come back to the game. Good boy!
He actually got MORE excited about ignoring it when he saw you open the bag – maybe he thought you were going to use the cookies as the rewards (maybe you did use the same cookies?) but either way, he still did great. He did a little investigated but never actually grabbed for anything. I am proud of him!
Let him sleep on this learning for a couple of days, then you can do a novel-exciting session maybe with a toy on the ground off to the side.
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
Yes, I hear that you are having some terrible rain! I hope it lets up soon without causing damage. The indoor space worked really well here – having a carpeted floor allowed her to move really well without slipping.
Your pile of stuff for the shpile game was GREAT! Excellent combination of things that move, crinkle, bang, different textures, etc. Super! The wood platform was a little slippery so you can put a yoga mat over it.
She did really well here with the treats so the next step is to get her WILD 🙂 Proprioception in high arousal is the key to success in high arousal sports like agility, because her brain is learning to work clean mechanics and movement even when her mood is very excited! And the science says if we teach it in the state she will need to do it in (high arousal), it will be much easier for her to do it when she is in that state.
So start the game with wild tugging – then do 3 or 4 cookie rewards for climbing about on the pile – then back to tugging. No worries if the mechanics are not super clean at first, keep rewarding because she will sort them out as she gets more experienced in the higher arousal state.
Side note: this game is stolen from flyball training where the dogs are in very high arousal states, and we need them to hit 25-30 miles per hour at the start line then be able to decelerate into the box turn (tightest turn in dog sports). They start 45 feet or more from the start line so I think they are going pretty darned fast when they get to the start line 🙂 The results of teaching puppies this high arousal shpile game get that gorgeous proprioception in flyball and also in agility. The turns, contacts, weaves, etc have all been sooooo much easier to get in trials with the dogs that are shpile trained LOL!
The wing wrap session went awesome! I know that being indoors is not ideal for this but working in the smaller space allowed you to focus on your connection: PERFECT!!!! And Rou had no questions. Lovely! If you do another indoor session, you can add in your wrap verbals. And when you take it outside, start adding more distance between the wings.
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
Was the bunny toy making the farting grunting noises? That was pretty funny LOL! I think sitting on the floor and playing here was lovely 🙂 You got lots of nice, relaxed interaction with the toy and between the toy of you. The toy noise was cracking me up 🙂
She definitely likes it when you throw the toy! This is where you get the best interactions and she comes in to you for petting and hugs (probably because there are no rules, no contingencies, etc.). You can try this with any type of thrown toys, just hanging out in the kitchen: a wubba, a hollee roller, a small jolly ball, a tennis ball – small enclosed space like this so she doesn’t slam herself chasing them, and you don’t care if she brings them back or not. You can sit with her with a pile of them in your lap and just toss them around.
>Ok, she’s crazed when she does that and could knock over lamps etc. i will try not to police it so much. Its rain for days so oent up energy now.>
Living Room Zoomies! You can cheer her on for a few seconds and then you can toss a loaded snuffle mat on the floor while you just sit on the couch or hang out safely to avoid zoomies (stand in front of anything that might get broken) – she can go to the snuffle mat (or not!) but it is a good way to direct the zoomies. You can keep it pre-loaded in a plastic container or something so it is easy to whip out – break glass in case of emergency hahaha! And with terrible weather for a few days, you might have a puppy emergency where her energy needs re-directing.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
> I looked into the workshop with Dr. Canapp. All the slots for eval time with him have been filled. >
Darn it! But he now has a practice on the West Coast if you ever need him. I hope you never need him 🙂 I think he is super brilliant but it is always better if we never need to meet him haha!
She was such a good girl with the line up here and the stays are coming along very nicely!!
>Still jumpy with touching the collar although she has gotten pretty good at getting leashed up (kept this on the end of the video).
Right! She almost seemed surprised by the collar touch moments, so good job proceeding slowly there. “Jumpy” is a good word for it where she was still surprised even though she has had previous positive experiences with that. She was a good girl with the leash at the end too!
>You’ll see she is pretty smooth coming around my left side, but got a bit sticky with coming around my right. Soreness has been on her right side (hip socket area); wondering if that could be a reason for her “stickiness”. Would it be hard to bend for that direction?>
She is a good communicator for sure.
I see what you mean about her getting a little uncomfortable turning to the right as you mentioned but wow, she was happy to immediately turn to her left and line up the other way. Interesting! Good for you for trying that.
It is entirely possible the stickiness is because something is ouchy and she felt it on the first couple of reps, so you got an abstention after it in that direction… but a happy ‘yes’ the other direction.
You got lovely reps on the other side. Then when you tried to get her lining up to her right, she was trying to get back to your left leg. Soreness or not, that might be a more comfy side for her in general. And if it is a bit of that right hip soreness causing trouble, you can as the vet to check her patellas when she is on her side getting the radiographs. A standing exam might not be as complete because strong dogs can hide a naughty patella 🙂 when standing. If it was a really slippery patella, I am sure you would have felt it already but a mild one can cause the hip to over-compensate on same or other side, leading to some soreness there.
Side note: one of my small dogs had a patella issue as a youngster, and she has had a fabulous career in both agility (national finalist!) and flyball, still running amazingly well at 7.5 years old. I saw freezing behavior with her as some of the early symptoms and her issue was not found on a standing exam, missed by really top notch orthopedic vets but easily found when she was on her side.
She did well with the stays. And you can also add some instant ‘get it’ moments when she arrives in position then you immediately throw a cookie ahead so she doesn’t stop in position.
And you can teach her leg weaves as a trick! That is a fun addition to the sit work and collar work too.
At one point on the video you said “I lied, we will do one more”
That made me laugh so hard because I say that ALL the time and I know I shouldn’t but yet…….. one more hahahahaha.And great news about the toy play! It sounds like it was a fun game with 2 toys, not contingent on anything harder. Super fun way to spend a rainy day!!!
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
She did really well with the tunnel game! Without a lot of room to get her in extension, she still was able to go pat the wing to the jump: great job with the rewards that supported her!!!
And yes, as you mentioned in the video, she is really fast 🙂 Fun times ahead!
Since this went so well, a couple of ideas for the next session.
– you can add a ‘jump’ verbal instead of only saying ‘go’ because a ‘jump’ verbal will help with the discriminations. Go could mean either obstacle when you are further away so a jump verbal is more specific. And I think Kyla mentioned you had an extra Go verbal when turning to the tunnel so she went a little wide, but that is fine at this stage because the extra verbals support the layering.– since she was able to get the turn to the tunnel after the jump, you can add in the additional challenge of staying out the line with you running parallel and heading to the next wing (the white wing closer to the tunnel).
The rear crosses went really well! Her left turns on the first past to the video looked consistently strong. You mention they were right turns so either the video reversed it or I need more coffee haha!
Her only questions on that first half of the session were actually on the Go lines. In 2 spots, she thought you wanted the rear cross. I think that was because you ran close to the tunnel exit before straightening up on the line, and she read that as the beginning of RC pressure at :23 and :41.
Compare that to when you headed straight up the line after committing her to the tunnel entry (heading directly to the line past the jump) and she was perfect, no questions at :12 & :51
On the other side:
>Could it be that she is unsure of going towards the wall?>
That could definitely be a part (along with a possible turn side preference) – she got more careful driving to the wall, especially after the toy hit it (look at how carefully she ‘plucked’ the toy away from the wall there LOL). Also, I think the RC lines at 1:11 and 1:28 were a little later than what you did on the other side – it looks like you took a couple of steps on the straight line after she exited the tunnel so she thought it was a straight line and not a RC at 1:11 and 1:28. It will be interesting to see what she thinks when you try it without the wall and get right on the line.
Great job here!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I do have a question about running NFC at the local UKI trials. You mentioned having someone throw or place a reward or target to help Tarot drive ahead in trials! It never occurred to me to have a second person in the ring as a helper. Is that allowed in NFC? If so that would be fantastic since there are a lot of UKI trials in the area!>
Yes – it is allowed in UKI. You can have a ‘helper’ come in and hold the dog on the start line, throw or place a reward, or even use a target. Food rewards are not allowed, and the target must not touch any of the obstacles. But a target on the ground is allowed and also toys can be thrown! UKI is great about that.
Tracy
Hi! The session went really well! The GO reps look pretty perfect 🙂
>Hes pretty good on his rights. I think he has a lot more questions on left. >
Yes – partially it is a side preference, and also it was a cue timing question! I made a slide show for you 🙂
Because of his size, stride length, and speed, his brain is (correctly) making a takeoff decision no later than one stride past the tunnel exit. That gives him time to set up the jumping mechanics.
On the first couple of left turn RCs: when he was making the takeoff decision, you were still showing straight line cues. The RC cues started after he made the takeoff decision, which is why he turned the ‘wrong’ way but immediately fixed it after landing – he could not make the change once the takeoff was underway.
Compare to the right turn RCs – you were getting directly on the RC info line basically as soon as he was out of the tunnel. He saw it, processed it, and turned the way you wanted. Lovely timing!
And on the last left turn RC, you got the cues in at about the same time as you did on the right turn RCs, and he got it! Yay! You were also using your arms/hands there, but I don’t think you needed that – it was the timing of the RC pressure to the center of the bar that got it done.
Here is the photo evidence LOL!
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1G5W1KOm2vKdWJ2MFKwDv9lqz3PFZNXNlG7QSjDgJ6iM/edit?usp=sharingSo to boil it down: the right turn RCs had timely info, and the left turn RCs started off with late info then you were timely on the last one 🙂 Nice work!
Tracy
Hi!
I did not watch any of it – I know the source all too well to give it even the benefit of the doubt or any financial support 😉
>It was super interesting how some actual science was presented, but with interesting bias added in that if you’ve never actually examined the original science could be convincing>
That is a huge problem in seminars and lately in AI-generated posts on social media. So convincing! But also… not what the science and data are telling us. I find it all to be an ego-centered, human-focused approach to training dogs without any true study, understanding, or application of the science. The newest insights coming from research are also changing our view of reward prediction errors – just fascinating stuff! And it is all pretty accessible so I have limited patience for people who try to Teach The Science but aren’t actively studying, understanding, trying to apply what the research is giving us.
> appearing to bite his tongue when others were actually trying to use the techniques the lecturer (a different guy) was advocating for.>
Yeah…. that is a problem. He should have said something if he disagreed!
T
Good morning!
>I will try that with him. For the backing up to something do I want something flat or would a Cato board work?>
Cato board is probably a little too high for now. A folded towel might be just right!
>For the RC I am afraid the hallway is directly above this space so it would be the same length. Should I move the target more one direction>
Yes, you can move the target as far as possible in the direction that is easier to set it up. We will take it outside as soon as mother nature cooperates!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Yes, you can limit reps of break the CBs in half. Mine crumble into a million pieces! Maybe I have an extra dry batch LOL!>
Oh no!!! Mine crack in half, I wonder if it is because I forget and leave them in the car so they are really cold LOL!
The collection sandwich looked brilliant! I loved your connection with your arm back to her while she was getting the cookie. And you have QUICK FEET! You were able to accelerate, blind, then decel into the pivot all in a matter of seconds. Wow! That allowed her to drive to you, change sides, and also collect for the turn. Click/treat for you both! My dogs are wondering if they can trade me for you because my feet are not nearly as quick as yours LOL!!
You can add more room if you have an area where she can really run without slipping, as well as the Go Go Go with the thrown toy after the pivot.
>When I was doing the wing wrap in the very beginning and sometimes it still comes out. Here is your comment: She had a bit of a chain going for a couple of reps: going around the cone to her right (from your left hand to your right hand) then sliding between you can the cone to her left. That likely means she is a righty, so we can adjust things a little to help get the left turns (moving from your right hand to your left hand).>
Aha! Thanks for finding it!
On the dog-on-left (right turn) video: she started by mushing the barrel LOL and this I exactly why we start on barrels and not wings 🙂 She needed a moment to sort it out but then she had a lightbulb moment followed by a big energetic reward from you. She did really well after that! It is a new puzzle and she was definitely putting the pieces together on the right turns. Super!!! You can add a tug to to the right turns here!
>This video is about 3 min, I didn’t want to edit anything out. I understand if you can’t review because of the length.>
I am very flexible with length of video, especially when we are looking at the whole session to troubleshoot/problem solve. Thank you for NOT editing it!
This session was not too long as you figured out how to help her. Your goal here seemed to be figuring out how to get reward to her and that is GREAT. You did not frustrate her or tell her she was wrong, you were looking for ways to tell her she was correct. Love it!
She is definitely not a lefty on this game so she was really thinking about it. Steam coming out of the ears as she worked on figuring it out!
You got her moving with a thrown cookie and a go, then rewarded for finishing one around when she was on the way back to you. Clever!
Brilliant training moment to go back to the original game with you sitting in front of the barrel.
She was so funny when she offered right turns – definitely rewardable for now! And it helped her get the left turn at 2:29. And you had a strong finish shortly after that.
The only suggestion I have for you is when you do the turn and burn with her on your right (left turns) you can bridge the gap by putting a bowl out about halfway around the barrel – she might have an ‘a-ha!’ moment as the visual helps her turn to her left. Then you can gradually move the bowl further and further around the barrel until it is gone and she will send to her left.
>Didn’t want to go that long ( I didn’t realize at the time) to avoid in the future, at what point should I have stopped?>
If you were unable to get reward to her, or you were stumped on how to help her, you can stop earlier. We don’t want her to get frustrated. I think you had excellent ideas here and she was still getting rewarded, so stopping when you did was good!
One thing she is doing is sniffing her way through the question sometimes and I wanted to mention it because it is perfectly fine 🙂 She is clearing her head and problem solving! My 2 year old dog did the same thing at the same age as Sunnie – when it happened, I noted it as super interesting but didn’t worry about it. He sorted things out quickly without me bugging him 😂 and most definitely did not end up being sniffy at all in his agility or flyball.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
Super nice session on the prop here! So much good work!!!
>-Watch in real time as I realize the mistakes I’m making in this one.>
Ha!! That is exactly why we spend time on the prop: so we can sort out all the handler mechanics, markers, dog mechanics, etc – all before we add it to the real stuff like jumps and tunnels. And if we make mistakes on the prop or accidentally add frustration (you did NOT have frustration here) – no worries! We can always change the prop if needed 🙂 And we get it all done to have a really easy, happy transition to the jump.
The adjustments and engagement are what really makes it a lovely session: she got a high rate of reinforcement as you adjusted what you were doing. Love it!
For the sending: She sent really well. My only suggestion is to center the prop in the area on the sends so she can turn towards you and not away. The couch was blocking her from turning towards you on the sends, so if she has more room you will get turns in each direction more easily.
The parallel path went really well too. Switching to the thrown reward really helps get more independence. So when it stops raining, take this outside! That will give you more room to add more distance 🙂
Great job with the reward placement on the backing up! The warm up on the flat went great and she is really thinking about moving back.
>For a few sessions she was working her back legs even harder by strategically backing up to avoid the mat – but we made some baby steps in the right direction this time.>
I was very happy to see her get totally on the mat as soon as you put it down! She didn’t seem to be avoiding it here – maybe she just didn’t know how to lift her back feet to get up on it so she was backing up a bit sideways. So you can help her out – since puppies are very front-end oriented, you can lure her to get all 4 feet on it – then lure just her front feet off of it. Then wait for her to step her front feet back onto it. That might be the lightbulb moment: “oh, I need to LIFT my feet!” So do a few reps of that and when she is easily stepping back with her front feet – you can lure all 4 feet off and see if she gets her back feet bck on directly.
Great job here! She looks great!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I wonder if I should try “spinning the room” and make my left side be on the blue & green yoga mat side too?
Great idea!!! Definitely try it! For science. 😂
>I introduced the beginner Pattern Game. I think we has giving me good attention between treats.>
The pattern game went great! He is so little that he really has to lift his head up – but that is actually really good for arousal regulation (changing the plane of the head helps the parasympathetic system regulate arousal).
You can keep moving this game around – first try with different locations in the house or yard. Add in having him on leash because when you play this in the real world he is likely to be wearing a leash – and the leash is a pain to hold 🙂 When he has some more experience in new places at home… try it in a new place entirely! Road trip!
The collection sandwich game went really well!
>My turn is wide, I need to pivot more instead of taking steps to turn. >
That is the only suggestion: decelerate immediately when you do the blind, so he sees it and collects. That will help you pivot more plus give the info to him sooner. You were in fast motion the whole time so he was surprised by the turn and that is wide he was a tiny bit wide.
When you decelerated a :45 and :52 for example, he turned really well!
>We started with the cookie toss, blind cross & collection turn. Then I showed him the pivot & the thrown toy. >
He did a brilliant job and I agree – I was super excited to see him go to the toy after all the cookies! YAY!! So terrific!
>I did see his enthusiasm diminish as we went along. It could have been that he was tired & it was a lot for him by then.>
I don’t think it was lack of enthusiasm – his engagement was still really great! He really wanted to keep going! But I do think he was hot – it is a lot of running for a little brachy dude and it is starting to get hot in Florida! You can see his mouth open and his tongue getting curled.
It will take him a little time to acclimate after a cold winter. And you can also do one minute session then an a/c break to cool down, then back out for one more minute, tops, in the sun. As the games add more running, you can change up the length of sessions and stick to super short with lots of breaks to keep him cool.
Does he like water? A dip in a cool baby pool can help keep him cool too!
>Do you think we are ready to try the Novel/Exciting Stealth Self Control games or should I do a few more sessions with some novel/neutrals?>
I think you are ready! You can start with boring exciting things LOL and have it far enough away that it is easy! But I think he is ready for it 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
What a fun and informative session!
>I left the beginning in the video so you could see his immediate interest in the area where the toys were piled on the workbench. Interaction! >
So cute! And definitely interested!!! He looked like a kid on Christmas morning 🙂
That first toy was a definite winner and you were great about keeping it low and moving it away. Super! What was the dark fabric at the top of it? That seemed to be a texture he really liked.
He got a little tired by about a minute into the tugging, so you can aim for 10 to 15 seconds of tugging, then put the toy away even if he still wants to tug. Leave him wanting more 🙂
He gave GREAT feedback on the 2nd toy (braided flannel): a big instant NOPE. Good to know! But he was still interested in playing, and that is great. You can use the braided toy as a handle for the other better toys, making them all longer so you can swing them for him to chase even more with you needing to also move.
3rd toy, sheepy fleece toy was also a big winner, he was definitely into it! I agree that this might be his favorite/ And it is a nice texture for baby puppy mouths who are teething. He got tired after about a minute here too – good to know! Keeping the sessions short and sweet will be key to the toy play.
4th toy: rabbit pouch was also super fun! Many dogs love fur toys. And I like the bungee handle because it is easier for me shoulders and back to tug as they get bigger and stronger. I am sure he smelled the lamb lung but was definitely pulling on the toy like a tug toy.
>I think it is best to let the lotus ball be the only toy/food combo.>
I completely agree! And the lotus ball provides a ton of flexibility in how you reward: you can throw it to get a food reward placed on a line, or you can tie it to a line to swing it for him to chase and grab 🙂
And for now, keep the food training sessions separate from the tugging with toys – his food value is very high and it is overpowering his toy love. So the lotus ball and food can be used for much of the training, and you can separately keep playing in short bursts, and use the toy for some of the faster moving games that don’t need food (like short bursts of toy racing).
It is totally normal to have toy play and food rewards stay separate with pups (all of my dogs need this at some point too) and as he grows up, we slowly bring them back together (no rush on doing it though, he is doing great with his training!)
Great job here!!
Tracy
Good morning!
Backing up is going really well!!!
That 2nd rep was GREAT – the lower hands made an instant difference! You can toss the treat to him instead of walking it to him. When you got a little further away, he still used his body really well but didn’t find the mat as well. No worries, you stay closer for now and we will also be adding to this game soon 🙂Looking at the prop games and rear crosses:
>Can I get him to drive ahead of me on this one so that it is easier to get behind him?>
Yes, we can get more driving ahead which will definitely make the RCs easier. It has to do with how you place the reward based on which skill you want.
Looking at the sideways/countermotion sending – you were sending really well so he had a nice snappy hit of the prop, followed by the reward from your hand. That is ideal for this behavior: we want a turn, so having the reward come from your hand works great!
Going back to the parallel path and RCs: this is where you can throw the reward out ahed, past the prop, so he doesn’t focus on you as much. On the parallel path game at the beginning of the prop session, you were rewarding from your hand so he stayed next to you.
We can flip that: as you move along the line and he hits the prop, fling the cookie reward out ahead so he leaves you to get it 🙂 You will see that he will drive away to the prop (as if it was a jump) very independently. Then when you start moving forward, he will drive ahead of you – which is where the RCs get much easier. If he drives ahead, you can cut behind him easily to get the RC (and continue to throw the rewards out on the line so he doesn’t want to stay near you).
When you did the RCs, he was understanding to turn away. Super! So I think getting him to move to the prop more independently with the thrown rewards will make it even smoother 🙂
Nice work here!!
Tracy
