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Good morning! This was a really interesting session to watch, she did really well – I love watching dogs sort things out. And that broken stay moment when she sat between 1 and 2 was hilarious LOL! Good girl!
>>Maybe a little fatigue? She had been running with her noodle brother who is cheering for her in the background before this was filmed.>>
Probably not, because she only added the stride going right to left. But if she was running around a lot, then maybe shorten that before the next session and we can compare.
I think what you were seeing was just processing – sensorimotor integration, according to my current list of geek terms LOL!! Basically – there was a LOT going on and she was trying to process all the input and translate that to motor tasks. She was successful in many ways, and was still experimenting in other ways. This is good! She is on the right track!!!
She was adding indeed a stride on the right to left reps, but even with the extra stride I felt her form was more organized and consistent on those (except for the rep at :27 where she didn’t power through 1 and landed on all four feet). She did *not* add a stride and bounced all of the left to right reps… but she was definitely sorting out her organization because she basically did something a little different on each rep with her front or rear. So interesting to watch – and I think it was more about the toy placement there.
One thing I know about these mixes with whippet in them: you are not going to see what happened in your training session until your next training session, today or tomorrow. I have seen that consistently with my 1/4 whippet, my 1/2 whippet, and now my full whippet. They have really good initial sessions, but when I come back to the skill in the next session? They have cemented the learning and can produce a lovely version of the finished product. It is so strange to me, but I have learned to just let it happen LOL!!!! It just happened with my 14 week old puppy’s sit stay. Decent first session, not sure what he really learned or understood, but lots of rewards for sits and baby stays. Next session? Able to sit on a verbal cue and hold it while I walk across the room. What the heck? LOL! Pointies… they are different.
So do I think she will look entirely different in the next session? Yes! She’s probably going to be all like “I’ve got this, human, let’s go.”
But also you can do a couple of things to help her out:
– lead out further, so when she is organizing for the 2nd jump, the toy on the ground is further past it. On these reps, especially going left to right, the toy was in the landing spot of 2 when she was landing from 1 which might be why she was organizing differently each time. So lead out 10 feet past jump 2, start dragging the toy, then release and see how she does. She seemed highly motivated for both toys, so I don’t think it was a toy value question as much as it was a processing question.
– looking at her in comparison to the jump, she is smaller than I thought she was! I love her size 🙂 But the jump height is a little high for now, so lower it to 4″ which should put it at carpal-height, and give her a little less distance between the jumps – you can replace one of the inner wings with a wingless upright to achieve a shorter distance without necessarily changing the angles.
Great job here! Let me know what you think! Can’t wait to see the next session!
TracyHi!
She definitely didn’t look tired from her training class! She did well here for sure and we got useful info about where she wants to look.She was all about watching the cookie hand here, so she was trying to sit facing you a bit more. She had some creative offerings to the challenge of being organized on the plank AND watch the cookie LOL! I think that is what you were seeing especially on your right. I am not sure it is a side preference in terms of strength or weakness, as much as it is a reflection of learning history on your right versus your left as you mentioned.
So since she is doing well on your left, you can add more motion. And since she is not as sure on your right – use less motion and help her more. You can be more stationary when she in your right (and add in more heeling games and motion override on your right as well, to help balance the learning history :))
>>I did add the food bowl as a target, but she didn’t pay much attention to it, I’m not sure it was in the right spot? >>
It was in the right spot. I think she was still getting enough cookies from your hands and also wathcing your hands deliver cookies to the floor that she didn’t feel it was efficient to watch the cookie bowl 🙂 But getting her to NOT look at your hands will help a whole lot, so a couple of ideas:
You can try having the cookie in the bowl before you start the rep (or use a Manners Minder if the cookie needs protection from Mochi or the cats haha). That way there is nothing in your hands to look at, and you can give the cues and the reward for the good sit would be the release from it, to get the cookie in the bowl after going around the wing.
Also, if you were training with food before she had eaten dinner… try training after she eats dinner. That allows her to think about her “work” more because she is not “starving” LOL!! Cats of course are always starving.
The other option is to use a toy on the ground instead of a cookie bowl – the session would have the same structure or nothing in your hands, she hops on the plank and sits, you release her to go around the wing to get the toy. A toy might be more stimulating as something to look at!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>haha… swallow before the next rep?? isn’t that part of the challenge?>>
HA! For dogs that don’t love food rewards, I make sure they swallow so they don’t spit it out. For dogs that seem to LOVE food, I make sure they swallow so they aren’t dividing their attention between the task and the tasty snack in their mouth LOL!!
He did a terrific job with his zig zags!!!
>> I wasn’t exactly sure what he would need for a bounce but we got it on the first try. Currently the wings are slightly overlapped but maybe next session I will give it a go with them just touching.
The setup you had here worked nicely, but the wings touching end-to-end should work too. How tall is he?
>> I think the first couple reps he seems to put too much effort into that second jump but I think it improved through the session.>>
What you were seeing there on those reps when he was on your right side at the beginning and then later on at the end, was a rotation of his hind end over the 2nd jump. When you watch it in slow motion, you will see his right hind rotating under his body on those reps, and his left hind rotating outside his body. Really interesting! That is why he is getting a little more lift over that 2nd bar at the beginning and at the end. Basically – it is an organization skill when he is in your right and he is jumping left to right.
When he was on your left and jumping right to left – he was more organized! every first rep at about :22, he had a tiny bit of rotation then I didn’t see it on the other reps like at :28 and after when he was on your left.
Also on those reps on your left, he was stepping right into the setup and not tapping his front feet on the ground before the 1st jump – so either he was feeling more powerful, or he was a tiny bit clsoer to the first jump, or both LOL! That rep at :28 and the one after it – those were both GREAT!!!
If you feel like obsessing on it a little, you can play it slow motion on Youtube by clicking on the “settings” icon at the bottom of the video – you will see a playback speed choice in the drop down that comes up.
So keep the angles where they are for now, and I think put the bars down to 6 inches for one session to see if he sorts out the rotation when he is on your right. It is normal to see a side preference at this stage and the dogs sort themselves out in the next session or two.
And before the next zig zag session, do some of the organizers to the jump on the slices – that will specifically outline how to use his rear on the slice lines like the zig zags, and will help him stay balanced and not rotate.
>> Of course it did take me way too many reps to realize he still had on his hunting jacket… oh well he didn’t seem to mind.
I thought he looked great in his jacket! And I agree, he didn’t seem to mind 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>I think with the leading with his head it was a combination of both… too much repetition, and some fatigue. Also I think this is a hard exercise for him so it “wears his brain out” quicker than some of the others. We also did this about 8:00 last night just before we went home and even though he’s gotten to be very comfortable hanging at the Training Center for the day (sleeps a lot) it does still wear him out a bit and I need to remember that. It’s not like being at home all day.>>
Yes, it is possible that we were seeing some fatigue and depletion. Being ‘at work’ all day can definitely leave less bandwidth for training at the end of the day.
Looking at the moving target game – he 1000% seemed to like chasing the moving target LOL! And the camera angle was so fun, with this flying ears and ultra cuteness!
He also did perfectly when you added the jump. And his stay was great, even when the toy was moving before the release. Since he was so brilliant: onwards to adding the moving target to the zig zag jumping games! You can start by moving it after the release, then if he retrains his organization you can start moving it before the release. It can probably al happen in one session unless he starts to ask questions.
Great job!!!!
TracyGood morning!
I think part of the link is missing, I can’t get it to come up to a video. I tried to dig around your youtube page to find it, but it is probably unlisted. Can you repost the link? Thanks!!
TracyHi!
Great lyrics! Love it!!!! What song is it from?And I am happy to provide support. Agility can be challenging in that people provide “advice” in a way that is decidedly NOT helpful and can really undermine confidence. When people say stuff to me, I just smile, say “thanks!” and walk away. No need to discuss anything.
Hooray for a trip to the park! She did GREAT!!!! Baby girl is growing up!!!! She was super focused and her skills are looking strong!
Looking at the threadle wrap – a lot of the dogs like the added ‘drama’ of turning our shoulders away then flipping them back. I do this with 2 hands and this shoulder-pull drama is what I do with Voodoo in the demos. And if you remember, we did it with Levy in the live class (the whippety dog) and he did really well with it. Just using the arm and not the shoulder turn requires the dogs to override where our shoulders/chest are pointing…. which is to the front side of the jump. You were adding some of the shoulder turn away at 1:42, 1:46 and she instantly got it! And you were doing it a bit after the BC at 2:16 and 2:25, and she got those too! Looked awesome!!!!
>>Sprite is scoping out jumps…>>
This is a good thing with a young dog! She was just telling you where your shoulders were pointing.
You can also work the threadle wrap on a wing without the bar – the bar has a TON of value as a front side of the jump, so taking the bar out of the picture can help sort out the cues and get her doing it, without the distraction of the bar.
And even if it goes wrong, don’t mark the errors with any no markers or show any frustration, as it depletes her confidence and we want her feeling pumped up about herself 🙂The backside circle wraps were easy peasy and she was SUPER independent on those! NICE commitment! Nice turns!
Threadle slices looked great 🙂 Just remember to keep supporting her line and moving across the bar like you did at :27 and :35. Try not to pull away from the threadle jump too soon, like at :20 because that is when she starts asking questions. She is definitely processing a LOT on the jumping here coming in after the blind so you can lower the bar for a session or two so she can sort out her footwork on the challenging slices.
Her german turn/backside pushes looked great! You can even start the BC sooner – as soon as you see her rounding the entry wing and looking at the bar, you can do the BC. It is REALLY fun to see how well these skills are developing!!!! Both the push to slice and push to wrap look really polished and independent!!!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Glad to see you here!!
yes, these short sequences will provide plenty of options for skills work!!!!!You can upload your videos to Youtube, then copy & paste the link into the Forum here. That is the easiest & quickest way to do it. I am looking forward to your videos!
Tracy
Hi! It was so fun working with you in the seminar! You and Rony Pony looked great!
>>Ronan is in young dog sticky mode and needs quite a bit of support on jumps in certain situations.
That is entirely normal for his age. He is working in a state of ‘divided attention’ meaning his brain has to focus on your handling cues AND sorting out how to do the agility obstacles…and it doesn’t always work out that well. So you can make one of the things easier: either clarify the handling by slowing it down and/or adding more support (which is what you did here in some spots) or lower the jump bars/angle the jumps so the obstacle difficulty is reduced.
>> The blind crosses from Karena were better timed and I struggled with being late and losing connection. >>
Actually, there weren’t really timing issues here – more like a “which cross when and where” question. But the session looked really strong!
Looking at the video:
As you will see, the FCs will only feel on time if they are the better option than the BC. So on seq 1: the FC started on time on the first rep, but was a little late finishing because of all the foot rotation required for that line. The BC turns the handler’s feet to the line sooner, so it is a better choice here than the FC and will feel more on time as well.
Really great connection 5-6!! That is the support he needs right now.2nd run -The blind is easier to finish in this context because there is no foot rotation required to show the correct line. It started at the same time as the FC pretty much, but finished sooner because the footwork shows the line sooner.
Coming past the tunnel – he wasn’t being sticky at :22, you were calling him HARD and the over cue came when he was already past the line to the jump. Good boy! You were clearer at :32 but still got too much handler focus with his name and the here cue – I think all he needed was connection and being closer to the line, like you did at :41 🙂Sequence 2: The cross to the jump was not a late issue, it was a line issue: FC or BC, you were both running on the line to the tunnel entry and then executing the cross. Motion wins out over everything else, so based on your line to the tunnel, he legit thought you were heading to the tunnel.
At :48, the front was not necessarily late, but it was on the line to the tunnel so he was jumping towards the tunnel. I like the FC as the choice here as it turns your feet to the jump sooner than the BC would, but you will want to place the FC on the line to the jump – try to get as close to the jump after the FC as possible and don’t go anywhere near the tunnel.
Same at 1:00 – not the cross was not tooooooo late, yes it can be a tiny bit sooner – but your line was directly to the tunnel so that is where he was heading.
The BC at 1:13 is hard when the line is to the tunnel because there is no foot rotation to tip him off so he was reading the line to the tunnel til after he landed (which is when you showed the connection)
So try it with the FC but with you running towards the jump and I bet he turns super nicely!The blind to the tunnel when you wanted the tunnel at 1:26 and 1:56 looked great and the line then the left verbal to the tunnel at 1:29 looked great too 🙂
The blind there works great because the line of your feet supports the correct obstacle. The FC at 1:40 did not work as well because it turns your feet and ends up finishing later.That is how I decide FC versus BC: as I am moving, which cross will turn my feet towards the correct line sooner? It is the BC a whole lot 🙂 but not always!
And great job getting him to the tunnel with the left verbals!!!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
The head turns are looking good! She is definitely turning her head to lead into the wrap. Very nice!>>I realized I do not know which head turn I am clicking? >>
You are clicking the head turn that starts the 2nd time around the wing, as she turns away from you – like you did at 1:08, 1:13 and 1:20.
You can put this game into the rotation to revisit every few weeks now as you add more of the other games.
Zig zags:
She has a few questions that can answer with some tweaks to the set up!To get the bounce, try to overlap the wings so the distance is shorter and she doesn’t add a stride. We might have to experiment to see what sets up the best distance but overlapping the wings should be a good starting point.
Also, we can tweak her position and your position, so she knows to take the line and not go past jump 1:
The zig zag line is an in-and-out motion, so you want to think of her setup position as always coming in towards the first jump then out towards the 2nd jump. When you had her doing that like at :22 and 1:31. You don’t want to set her up to have to lead change away to get to the first jump like at :53 or 1:53 and the other reps where she missed the first jump.
You can place your reward target so she can basically see it on a straight line between the wings and then you can stand there – if you are in the right spot, you don’t have to do any handling, like at 1:31 when she read the line really well.
Also, reward all efforts because chances are her question is related to the set up – and if she doesn’t get rewarded, she will stop looking a the reward or get tentative and add strides. So if something goes wrong, she can still have the cookie from the reward target.
For the platform – this one does work well! Maybe put a yoga mat under it so it doesn’t slide out from under her when she gets off it?
I think you made things too hard for now when you had the toy out ahead – she was either slow to sit or too far forward for most of those reps. She had a much higher success rate when the toy was NOT out front, so stick with that for now 🙂 To add a distraction out in front of her, you can start with something lower value like an empty food bowl.
But this game can definitely move to the wing now!
>>I think I found a board that will work better. question: If I tell my dog to sit, I would expect them to immediately sit rather than go to a board and then sit? this seems a little odd to tell the dog to sit and have them move forward. For those that do obedience, has this raised other problems or is it so contextual that it makes no difference. how does this look to you?
The dogs understand the context really well, based on the foundation on the platform before we added movement. The platform/plank is part of the cue. Your motion forward cues getting on it, and the sit cue is contextually paired with it (especially by the time they hear it). It has not raised any issues with any obedience skills because we are not mioving towards a plank in obedience LOL!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I love the Halloween outfit! I think we should all wear costumes to train!!!
The zig zags are doing exactly what we want them to do: getting her to think about her striding even when she is more stimulated! The choice of toy as reward added stimulation, and you running to place it was stimulating too when you started doing that,
She seemed to have an easy time of it when she was jumping right-to-left (her right shoulder against the wing, moving to the right across the computer screen). On both videos, no errors or questions in striding. Good to know!!!
The questions she had in both sessions were when she was moving left-to-right (her left shoulder against the wing, moving to the left across your screen).
On the first video, she had the striding question at 1:17. I was trying to see what was different there but really there was not much that I could see you did differently… but at 1:13 she was looking around, something had caught her attention, so she was definitely having a split attention moment.
She also had a little toe nail click on the bar at 2:45 – no worries, just interesting to note on a left-to-right rep!2nd video with the moving target – oh yes, this is why we do these games 🙂 She definitely had divided attention on that first rep and the chase stimulus overrode the jump organization skill, so the striding was challenging on that first rep (also left to right!). But she fixed it right away and the rest, which is good. You will see that she will ask these striding questions less frequently in her training even when presented with distractors like motion.
My only suggestion on the next session is to start her going right to left (right shoulder next to the wing) and show the distractors there first, before asking her to do it left to right. Otherwise, keep adding the distractors, and we will start to raise the bars a bit too (after the US Open).Looking at the organizer video:
Plank in front of the wing looks good! You can add the wing wrap in before it for more speed, and the reward target. She is definitely doing well here and has the rhythm of it, so we can move to the next steps.
>>do you reward the sit? Or do I reward the sit with moving forward to the toy on the ground? Do both and vary?>>
I reward the sit like you did here for a session or two, then move on to add a reward target as the focal point. It can be the toy target or an empty food bowl or a manners minder, placed on the exit line of the wrap (past the outer edge of the wing on the takeoff side, so she wraps the wing and comes to the reward target after finishing the wrap). So when she sits, you will no longer reward her in position – instead, you will release her to leave the sit and drive around the wing to the reward target. That will fade the handler focus especially because we handlers won’t often be there) and get her head position a little lower too!
When she is happy with leaving the sit and going to the reward target, you can add speed with the wing wrap before running onto the plank. Then it is a really easy transition to add the jump with the low bar instead of just the wing in front of the plank 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
His Zig zags looked great – my only suggestion is to maybe take the foot off the wing at his takeoff spot and his landing spot? He was touching the food on the takeoff and landing on it a bit on the landing. Small dog issues for sure, but it might be possible to use a wing without the foot there.You can definitely move on to the next step: next add motion with the moving target reward 🙂 And when he is doing well there, you can tighten the angle a tiny bit more – the bar stuck through the lattice is clever!!!!
He is also doing well with the sits on the on the platform and on the flat with motion override – all looked good!!
On the platform with motion override – the added motion made it harder at first (the sit had to be more organized and faster!) but then he locked it in nicely, really thinking about being quick and where his feet were. Good boy! So now you can take the plank to the wing to begin the wraps! It will help put it in context for him when he sees that it will be involved with wrapping 🙂
Leading with the head is also looking good -remember to cue the 2nd wrap, because that was much crisper head turn behavior than when he double wrapped without a cue.
The sideways and countermotion exits also looked really good! And the added excitement of the toy did not change his behavior, he turned really nicely even with the toy right there. Yay!One thing I noticed in this video… when he gets past the 3rd or 4th rep on each side, the behavior loses the crispness a bit and he goes more to trotting around the wing and not driving around it – fatigue? Too much repetition? Hard to know, but you can limit the # of reps to 3 or 4 of each thing, then do something else.
Great job here! Let me know how he does with the next steps!
Tracy
Hi!
I am glad he is feeling better and back in action! He looked really good here.
>.I think it went better though to me it still seems he has a preference for his right lead.
I agree – the lead change game looks good and you can totally move onwards to the 2 jump game with low bars!
And it is normal that dogs have a side preference to varying degrees. We will see it more in the other games (see below) and it is good to know, because we can start the harder skills with him moving to his easier side.
The organizers looked strong too! That plank is perfect – the right lenght and width for him to get on at speed and organize. Nice!!! It was fine to have to get that sorted out before moving to the wing LOL!
He is doing well with his sits, both from the flat and then with more speed with the wing wrap before it. Super!! You might need to give him the sit cue earlier so he can process sooner (especially when he is turning left, on your right side) He was able to lock it in at about 1:29 when the cues were earlier and also when he was on your left (turning to his right).
I think we are seeing a slight side preference: He does seem to be slightly more organized turning to his right (when he was on your left in the last part of the video). Now, it is also possible that he had learned the game, so you can test the theory by starting on that side next time and doing the left turns in the 2nd half of the video.
But if there is a side preference, it is pretty subtle. Nothing to worry about and it is just useful info for planning future sessions.
Since he did so well here, the next step is to add a reward target just past the outer edge of the wrap wing, so he has a focal point. That way, when he finishes the wrap and comes around the wing, he can be focusing on the reward and not on your hands. An empty food bowl works well (you can drop the cookie into it), or a Manners Minder or even a toy if he can ignore it on his way to the plank.
My only other suggestion is to be sure he swallows the cookie before you ask for the next rep LOL!
When the reward target is in place and he is doing fine with it (will probably only take a few reps) you can move to using the entire jump with a low bar.
Great job! Let me know how he does with the next steps!
TracyGood morning!
>>He really blew me away with how well he handled Ashley Deacon’s courses. (which were amazingly fun and flowing so I hope that’s what we get at the Open too.
Ashley has definitely become one of the best course designers in the US!
>> Although I did notice he’s judging Gamblers and his Gamblers for us had 2 distance options (of roughly equal difficulty) as opposed to a lower pointed gamble that didn’t involve distance. So Gamblers finals may be interesting).
Right! Normally there is a mini gamble of sorts and then the ‘big gamble’ but I have no idea what he will do this year LOL!
>> I am leaning towards moving him back to 16in after the Open to see how his speed is now that he’s done more conditioning and jump training with this course. He has much stiffer competition at 16in given the cutoffs letting more BCs in, but I also think he can handle the height well at least for a few years and then we can drop back to Perf 12/12select later.
I agree that he can handle the 16″ height more and more. I also agree that there is a conundrum about all of the larger dogs jumping below their shoulders in 16, compared to our smaller dogs jumping above their shoulders. There is no easy answer for jump heights and the Shelties certainly have done well in AKC 16″ over the years, where the 18″ BCs run as well!
>>am not sure I want to be schlepping the plank over to the practice ring. I could bring my doughnut yoga mat small organizer just to do a little bit of organizer work though. Does it make sense to go back to the smaller organizer when we’ve been using the plank? Or I can see if we have space for a ready jump with a 4ft bar.>>
I was going to suggest just the platform organizer to remind him of tight sits – you don’t even need to do it with a jump, it can just be a bit of exercise and warm up for him. So no need for extra schlepping LOL!
Tracy
