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Hi! Start the backsides using the 6.6″ spacing and see how she does! That is a good distance for her so I think it will also be a good backside distance.
T
Hi!
Retrieve games: he did really well on both videos here!! Super! I’d say he is a pretty natural retriever too – chasing the toy is super exciting! You made it really fun to bring it back, so he was bringing it back faster and faster inside on that first video!
When you were outside, you gave him less room so I think you can throw it a little further now, he was pretty perfect 🙂 Also, you were very quiet on the outside video, so remember to praise him when he brings it back (just like you did inside) and you can also use a ‘get it’ verbal when you throw the toy.
One thing to add to the next session: start him on your left side too. On all of the retrieves on both videos, he turned to his left (probably because you started him on your right as far as I could tell). So, remember to switch sides so he turns to his right as well, so we keep him nice and balanced.
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHe was so cute here! The edge of this box was a little high so it too him a moment to figure out how to get hi sback feet in, but he did! Super!!!
OK since this is going well too, let’s add a discrimination game. Let’s teach him to assess the situation and determine the difference between *in* and *on*. Using this same white box (as long as it is stable and won’t move from under him), do a session where you start by rewarding him for getting in it like you did here… then while he is chasing a cookie reward, turn it over so when he approaches it again, he switches to “get on it” mode. That can be a good brain-bender for puppies! And when he gets on it (even if it is just a front foot), reward and while he is chasing a cookie, turn it over so he will need to switch to ‘get in’ mode for the next rep.
And if this particular object won’t work, you can do it with the large black bowl you have, I think that is big enough and stable enough.
Nice work!
TracyHi!
I love his goat walk over all the things here! No problem at all 🙂 And a nice 2o2o by accident hahaha
He is very balanced and coordinated which means we can add a little more! If you have a wobble board, you can add it with some of the other objects wedged under it.
Also, you can play this game with a toy instead of cookies, so he is more excited: that will challenge him to be coordinated while moving faster!
And, with the cookies, you can also be walking back and forth – that challenges his head position, because he will want to look up at you, but looking at the objects will make for better balance and coordination.Great job here! Let me know how the next steps go!
TracyHi!
The wing wrapping looks super! He had one moment where he was extra licking the bowl but then go right back at it LOL! And since there was distance between you and the wing now, we can go to the next step:
rather than use this short PVC wing, do you have a taller laundry basket or barrel or really tall cone? That will give him something bigger to wrap, but it is also softer because he might touch it when we add the turn and burn game 🙂So using the bigger laundry basket or similar item, do one short session just like you did here so he learns to wrap that new item… the onwards to turn and burn from week 3! We don’t want to use a real wing yet, so definitely try for the pop up basket or something 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
It was really cool here to see latent learning in action: after a few days away from the training, he was really great with the plank game here! Of course, his coordination will change as he continues to grow, but I am really happy with what he did here!!! You can move this game to wobble boards, or you can stay on this plank and add toys to it rather than cookies 🙂 Using toy rewards will get him more excited so he is going to be more challenged to stay coordinated 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
YES! The retrieve really is rooted in play relationship 🙂>.Warning, expect frightening human growling! May not be suitable for sensitive viewers prone to hysterics.>>
Ha!!! The silly chatter, noises, growling, and occasional singing are all GREAT! I think all of the noises we make really deepen the play relationship for when we *don’t* have toys (like in the ring!). We can make the silly noise and play without needing the cookies or toys 🙂
She was fabulous here of course – looks like she was happy to play with the toy on your lap, or on your leg, or any ol’ way 🙂 Perfect! So you can add in some “bring that back!” to keep building to the retrieve.
Great job 🙂
TracyHi!
Countermotion – yes, the slow mo says you are leaving before she arrived at the prop on most of them – how cool is that!! Awesome! She didn’t seem to have many questions about the countermotion, but she was not always sure if she should go to it with you rotated like that. So, start closer and that will help her leave to go to the prop with more giddy up, which means you can also start the coutermotion sooner.
On the rear crosses:
>.On the first rears, obviously she has no idea so the spin is expected. Should I be jogging? I wanted to try to show up on her other side quickly enough to avoid the spin but maybe I need to chill and just walk it and let her figure it out?>>
Rear crosses are hard! She has really excellent commitment 🙂 So why did she not read the RCs? Watching this session… you were late 🙂 LOL! That is why she never turned the new way on the RCs. I grabbed a screenshot of what I thought the best rep was, where you started pretty far back and looked like you were earliest with the RC cutting in behind her:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ei8WuvGmFs0cTDSRVpunol9uivI1Dxj19Wz6-mIVe2E/edit?usp=sharing
You can see that she is just about at the prop, she has decided to turn to her right, because you had not yet cut in behind her yet at all (you were still on the right turn side). So ideally, when she is maybe halfway to the prop, you would already be cutting in behind her so when she is at the prop as she is hree at 1:30, you would already be on her left side.
here are screen shots of timing from the demo video with my Elektra:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZeCgOzhm4qSJwPxpFKUXnDZQGivQ3pnypWY1pI8LTxI/edit?usp=sharing
So it is not about how fast you move (jog or walk are both fine), it is more about how early you can cut in behind her. That might mean jogging LOL!!! And it might mean that her prop touches are not as perfect but that is fine, reward anyway 🙂
>>I gotta say: doing all this on a foot target instead of a jump or a wing is genius!!>>
I am glad you are liking it! It is easier for the pups and allows us to work it all out before going to the REAL STUFF LOL! And transferring to wings and jumps is SUPER easy 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi! This was a very strong session! You were both watching her and rewarding, and making plans to help her either by challenging her more, or making it easier if needed – all at a really fast pace. NICE!!! She had a TON of excellent backing up moments here in this short session!
>.Looking at the video, I’m thinking I ought to get the reward treat down under her chest before she looks up at me, although that might be more like luring?>>
Yes – you can do that by leaving your hands low, at or below your knees, That was when you were able to get the cookie in the quickest, before she looks up at you. When you are standing up more, or had the cookie hands higher (thigh level) – it was harder to get the cookie in fast when your hands were higher.
Now about the luring… I don’t have anything against good lures where needed as long as we fade them. But in this case, the lower hands/faster rewards are not lures because we are notusing the cookie to create the backing up behavior – we are getting it in FAST to reward her offered behavior while using fast placement to make sure she doesn’t lift her head up.
>>Also, markers.
I’m an old dog trying to learn new trick. I try but “yesss” comes out as unplanned as a fart.>> Ha! I am now going to steal that analogy LOL!
>> So maybe if we take them one at a time… what would be appropriate here? I’m delivering the treat to her in position but dropping it to keep her head down instead of delivering it to her mouth. 🤷🏻♀️
(Not promising that even if I know what I should say I won’t say yes at the weight shift but I can try.)>>In this shaping game where the cookie is being placed “at the source” where it is either in her mouth or right below it? I am fine with a yesss marker. When she needs to come forward to get the cookie between your feet? That is more appropriate for a ‘get it’. So let’s start with those and add more later!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>>I didn’t see these things and appreciate your “eye.”>>
It is very easy to see as an outsider eye looking at video… it is MUCH harder to see in the moment or when we work with our own puppies 🙂 Plus, play preferences change as the pups grow, so she might play entirely differently in 6 months!
Looking at the baby goat games video: she did really well offering to get on the ‘thing’ and more importantly: nice job getting back to the toy after cookies! The pace of your session was great: tug, shape for a couple of cookies, then back to tug while getting the object out of there – very nice!
Only one suggestion: you were putting the object down and then getting the cookies from the pocket… which ended up causing your hand to stay in your pocket. She was watching you pocket, even offering behavior directed towards the pocket, which inhibits that first offer moment (because “mom’s hands are going to the magic cookie pockets! nom nom!!” )
So you can switch that: tug tug tug, get the cookies into your hand… then put the object down. Sure, she might look at your hand a little but that is a smaller visual than the hand-in-pocket, and can lead to a faster offer on the object and definitely will lead to quicker reinforcement placement – which means she will be less likely to watch your pockets 🙂 because you can get the reward in before she turns and looks at you.
Wing wrap games:
>>I wound up using toys because when I initially used bowls and treats, it looked too much like the “Bucket Game” we play to do her grooming. So, she would just down and stare at the bowl and wait for me to comb her.>
Ah yes, I can see her point there LOL! So we can call this the 2-Dragon Game instead LOL!! The grooming bowl game is a lifetime thing, so I would not want to change that because we fade the bowls from the wrap game pretty quickly. The other option is to use post it notes or something that definitely does not look like a cookie bowl 🙂
She did well here with the 2 dragons! (I just noticed she has spots in a row down her back: SO CUTE!!!!) The first video was all about establishing the back-and-forth pattern and getting her to drop one toy then go to the other one. On the 2nd video, she was dropping the toy more easily and the upright placed there was no problem at all. So, next steps: rather than tap the other toy immediately when she lets go of the first one… wait for a heartbeat. when she turns her head to the next toy, the other toy can come alive! Then you can start delaying the 2nd toy tapping longer and longer, so she builds up to offering going around the upright.
Great job!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Thank you for the info!!!! She sounds really cool and fun in many ways, and challenging in others.
One overall observation: based on what you said about her, she sounds like she doesn’t really know how to self-regulate at all. She gets “up” into arousal… and stays up there and can’t get herself back to baseline or that optimized state. It makes sense: she is from high arousal working lines (genetics might not have been geared towards self-regulation) and she is an adolescent.
So, prioritizing the training should make a MASSIVE difference!!
Step 1 – self-regulation in the form on the resilience games. Get those going for sure as the top priority. I have more coming this week! And I have found that nosework is GREAT for self-regulation1
Step 2 – very simple basic shaping where you take an easy, unimportant skill and shape it with toy play before, cookies during, toy play after a few cookies, then a treat scatter in the grass to end the session with her sniffing to decompress her arousal state. What should you shape? It doesn’t matter as long as it is relatively easy and NOT something you really care about for sports 🙂 because the goal is not about the shaped behavior, the goal is ALL about the self-regulation when ‘working’.
>> I am not playing 2 toy game with her at the moment as she is just too aroused and won’t end the game.>>
You can create a resilience/self-regulation variation of toy-one-tug then treat scatter in the grass then toy-two-tug then treat scatter in the grass. And you will be able to replace the treat scatter with a little nosework skill – all of that can help her practice the up and down of self-regulation. It is like building up a muscle!
When you have that magical self-regulation and resilience in place? BOOM! Everything else will come together very quickly 🙂
>>When out and about we use a 4-in-1 harness, usually chest attachment, though she is still a powerful pull. I do use a GL as well.>>
I have found that using 2 leashes like reins really helps: so you can have 2 leashes on the chest attachment harness, one in each hand and on each side of her body, so you have a little more control to help her out.
>>I am having trouble finding good footing places to train, and urgently need yo solve that problem. Kilah digs and drives at top speed and has no regard for her physical safety.>>
She should probably not be doing any of that type of training yet, til the resilience and self-regulation muscles are built up because the bad footing can be incredibly frustrating to dogs like her! Plus, if she can’t yet self-regulate then yes – it can be unsafe. I would replace the running activities she might be getting there with hikes on a long line, or long sniffaris (sniffy walks) an stuff like that.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>So I didn’t really ease into the wobble board, because Georgie climbs on all sorts of stuff, some that moves, some that crashes, some that falls, and then she bounces right back. On Sunday she climbed the patio chairs and stood on the table. Very goat like.>>
OMG, she is a complete goat LOL!! As she enters adolescence, keep making these super fun like you did here because adolescent dogs can sometimes be more sensitive to things like movement or noise.
This was a really strong session! The first toy was not interesting and I thought maybe she was having a “But mom this is where we EAT!” moment – but actually, it was more about toy value! I thought your original toy choice was good but she disagreed. You did the right thing to switch to the better toy! Yay!
I think you can make that toy longer by tying it to the other toy, so she keep her head lower, shift her weight more, and NOT accidentally grab your hand (and so you don’t need to bend over a much either). And the excitement of the toy helped her get all four 4 on the small wobble board! Super!!!
So as she continues to grow, you can take all of your ‘stuff’ (wobble board, pods, disc, etc) and put them all down on the floor together so she is walking around on them at the same time. That way she can walk over things that move, things that squish, things that make noise… and she can play and/or get cookies for all of the different experiences. She seems ready for that!
Great job!
TracyHi there! Lots of good stuff here!!!!
Backing up is going well! My only suggestion is to lower your cue hands so his head is just a little bit lower: maybe do it just in front of your stomach instead of up by your shoulders. That way his head would be more in a ‘neutral’ position looking straight, and looking up less.
So the next step here is to have him back up to something that moves a little, like a big disc or a wobble board (but use one with lots of towels stuff under it so he doesn’t have to deal with a lot of motion).
Parallel path – looks good! He definitely has value and was driving to the prop. So now, next steps:
– you can switch from a clicker to a ‘get it’ marker, so he doesn’t look back at you at all: use the same timing you had here (say get it as soon as his first foot touches it) but instead, say “get it” and toss the treat out ahead (same tosses you were doing here. Clickers tend to get the dogs looking at us, but the get it marker can help him look ahead the whole time, like we want on course.– add more lateral distance away, so your parallel path is further away from the prop. At the end here, you were maybe 12″ to 18″ away, so start at 18″ away and build up to a couple of feet away on your parallel line 🙂
Countermotion – This was harder for him! He has really strong value but had questions about the distance with the backwards sending to start this. You can start closer so he is more comfy moving away, which also allows you to start moving in the opposite direction. So start about a foot away from the prop, send to it (which should be easy for him) and as he starts to move, you start to walk in the other direction. And you can reward the effort of the ‘almost’ moments – he doesn’t have to be perfect, we are looking for him to commit to moving away.
He had questions when you were near the prop and stepped towards it but didn’t use your hand – he was not sure if he had the cue to go to it or not. So definitely use your hand here (no need for a clicker on this one anymore either, which frees up a hand for pointing to the prop). As you step to the prop, you can point at it and look at it, all of which support him moving to it.
Rear crosses: These are pretty hard and he did well! It is possible that when you only had the prop, your timing was not clear. On this clip, it was a little hard to see your path but it looked like you were timely with the RC info on all the reps except two reps: meaning, you cut in behind him early enough that he was able to make the turn in the correct direction. Yay!
So when he was spinning: was it happening before the prop, or after he got to the prop (turning the wrong way)? If it was before the prop, it is possible that the uprights were helping him with a good visual reminder to go forward. If it was after the prop, it is possible that you were late on the cue and you were not late here.
Looking at his two questions, you had one rep where you were too early and one rep where you were too late 🙂
:32 – you were too early and you ended up pushing him off the line and getting the backside. Good dog! So you can totally reward anyway because his response to the handling cue was correct.At 1:30, this was the only rep where you were too late – he had already committed to turning to his left and was at the prop and *then* you started cutting in, so he couldn’t make the change. Good boy, keeping you honest LOL! Compare to the next rep at 1:41, where you were earlier (showing the RC info before he got to the prop) and he nailed it 🙂 yay!
I also give YOU a massive click/treat to be able to do a full 2 minute session on rear crosses and only be late on one rep. That is amazing, because rear cross timing is hard! Super!!!
One more thing about the rear crosses: don’t use a go verbal 🙂 Go means straight and RCs are turns. So for now, you can say ‘hit it’ or something if you like, and we will be adding the directionals soon, I promise! the pups are just about ready for the directional verbals in many cases.
Collection sandwich: looking good on both videos!! He is reading the collection cues perfectly and that allowed you not have to worry as much about which hand to use 🙂 As long as you slowed down and stayed connected: perfect! And he was happy to drive forward to get the cookie for th eget it (go) ending on the 2nd video.
Next step: more of your running! You will probably need a bigger space for that, so outdoors will work if you don’t have too much snow!
Also, you can use a toy in the indoor space because that will get him moving faster so you can add more excitement and challenge, even in a smaller space. Start some tugging, then toss the cookie like you did here: then decel with the toy in your hand and after he does the pivot with you, throw the toy forward for a toy race ending 🙂
Retrieving looked good! He was a little surprised when the toy hit the bag on the wall – so in that moment, wait for him to assess the situation and then ask him to bring it. You can also do 2-toy retrieving or bring out your entire toy bag and throw a different toy each time LOL! He is doing a super job with the retrieving.
Wing wrap with the big barrel: He has fabulous commitment and I think he really liked this game! Yay!!!! A couple of ideas for you for the next session:
Try to start in the same place every time, with a moment between the line up and send, so he knows when to start and you know when to FC and run the other way. So you can start right in front of the barrel, same spot each time – and move the line you are looking for him to arrive at closer and closer to you, so you are leaving earlier and earlier.
By changing starting spots each time, it was harder to move the line and progressively leave sooner and sooner. By always starting in the same spot, you will easily be able to move the line so you can start the countermotion of leaving sooner
And if something goes wrong with the handling, reward his effort like at :25 where you sent to a spot where there was no barrel and called him back. He was being super, so you can tug and then set up in front of the barrel for the next send.
For this game – try not to say “go” here 🙂 because Go means straight and these are wraps. We will be adding wrap verbals to this: do you have wrap verbals with your other agility dog(s)? Sid seems ready so we can go ahead and get those started 🙂
Resilience game: He did well here! I was interesting to watch him look around a bit with this game, exploring the room a bit. Super! And yes, you want to be quiet but I thought you were pretty quiet 🙂 The only suggestion I have is to replace the “yes” marker with a “get it” which tells him you are tossing a cookie. We will be building this up soon!!
Great job on all of these – he is ready for the new games coming tomorrow! Let me kno what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>Yeah, I wasn’t happy with using “Go” but I don’t love being without a command in these kind of circumstances.
> I can totally relate! Now that he is into the turn and burn stage, you can add your wrap verbals (front side wrap) if you want to. Based on his success with turn and burn, adding the verbal cue is appropriate!
Speaking of turn and burn… looking awesome! And doing only one side is fine because it allows the concept to cement in his brain before we go back to the 2nd side.
I am sending you a massive click/treat for your patience in standing still for the first few reps! Then you started to move sooner and sooner, which was great and he seemed to have no questions.
My only suggestion for this session is to keep your feet together after you send him, rather than step the opposite leg out to the side. For the first reps and the very last rep, you started him on your right and your left leg stepped out to the side, making it visible on the other side of the barrel.
We don’t want to inadvertently build in the sideways step with the outside leg as a cue, plus we want you to be able to move the new direction as early as possible – and that extra step can delay things.
You didn’t do the extra step on the reps after 1:15 and he was awesome!!! You did it on the last rep and that is when he had a question and pushed the barrel.
For next turn and burn: if you do more left turns, definitely start to leave earlier and earlier: how early can you turn and go the other direction while he still commits?
And start the right turns, but start from the very beginning where you stand still longer.The backing up is hilarious!!!! It is like he is using little eyeballs in his feet to find the destination LOL!! Because he is a teenager, you can keep him closer to the destination object for now, so he doesn’t try to walk on his shoulders while using the foot eyes lol!!!
Form is more important than distance, so you can work form by changing the destination object without adding more than a few steps of distance.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
She is such a smart girl!Here is my guess on what happened in the session: I think she was understanding the ‘put your feet on the pods’ thing… but the pods are kind of harsh feeling on the feet. Note the moment when she was standing up and had one foot on the pod – she shifted her weight to that foot and then lifted the other foot to put on the other pod. That was when she was like, ‘hey wait a minute, this feels really weird’ so she moved to a sit: the sit takes her weight off her feet so she could touch the pods without having the weird ouchy feeling on her feet. If you have ever stepped on one of those pods, you will know that is might not be a comfy feeling LOL!!
Then she was ultra clever and started pushing them. She is so smart!!! Love it!
So, let’s help her out and give her more options with the texture, so she is not having any ouchy foot feelings: you can take your disc, and put the paw pods and the disc together, so there is a bigger playing field. That way she can practice putting both feet on different objects, without trying to avoid any possible ouchy feeling. You an also use a disc and a pillow, for example, to help her get all sorts of different options for the goat games.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
