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Hi! I am glad to see this video! Bummer about the knee, and I know how hard it is to breathe at 8000 feet!! I am sure he was happy to receive as many contact rewards as you wanted to deliver LOL!
Hopefully these runs built up your confidence after the poopy trial! These are big, challenging courses and you did great!
Course 1, first run – this went really well, I think the weave entry is the only hard part!
You can some layering in the opening – since you sent to the tunnel on the landing side of 2 at :11, you can layer that jump as he gets on the DW. That will minimize your yardage (yay!) and get you really far ahead for the teeter (double yay!). If he will hit and hold the contacts, you can be on landing side of 6 as he hits the contact position.Weave entry – it was hard for him, so you can add that wing to it to help him find it, so you don’t have to run in closer to help him find it.
The line after the weaves looked good too – you can trust his independence more and as soon as he turns his head for the correct direction for the jump after the weaves, you can get outta there and move up the line. He found the line to the tunnel beautifully, even with you layering the jump! He probably needs a go cue before he enters that tunnel so he exits straight – you can give him the go cue before he enters then switch to the a-frame cue while he is in it.
After the frame – he read the next line well too – nice FC and then he was great about sending to the tunnel so you could take off up th being ending line! You can trust him even more there – for a moment, you stopped your moment and waiting for him but then he caught up pretty quickly LOL! Try to trust more, be sorta connected on lines like this, yell the verbals and run for your life 🙂
Run 2: he missed the jump after the tunnel at 1:28 in the opening here (after having gotten it on the first run and then he got it at 1:42 when you re-started). I think the difference was your position. On the first run and at 1:42, you were more in the center of the bar. At 1:28, you were past the exit wing. So he might not fully understand the independence here – good to know! You can walk through it with you past the exit wing, so he finds the jump, because I think being past the exit wing was the best position!
You had more of a layering element with the dog walk at 1:47 and he was great! Now… layer and run away laterally 🙂 How close to the teeter can you get, while he is on the DW? That will keep you ahead on the teeter and for the jump after it. The ‘here’ cue on the jump after it was a little late, so he was wider – being a little further ahead will allow you to show him the turn cues before he takes off (and since he is not really going to hold the teeter position, being more laterally away from the DW will really help :))Good boy got the weave entry! Yay!
You wrapped the other way on the jump after it at 2:32, but that set a different line and he did not find the tunnel when he got ahead of you and you tried to turn. I looked back at the first run when you did this (:36) and I think you wanted the wrap to the right there too, but your footwork cued a left wrap by accident? But that left wrap flip-away worked GREAT here! You did a spin there to get him on your left on the last rep at 2:48 but then you had to RC the tunnel and sprint like mad – I vote for that flick away move, it was so much easier 🙂
Great job on the ending line! After the FC and send to the tunnel, you took off and yelled the verbals but did not stick around to help: perfect! He found the line really well and you were ahead of him at the end. YAY!Overall, really well done! My only suggestions are to work more layering skills and lateral distance while he is on the DW, and also work the left-wrap flip away on the jump after the weaves 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Congrats on the title, that is awesome! It is pretty normal for the dogs to not be quite as fast in their first trials as they are at home, plus add in the covid years… I think she is doing a great job!!! She will speed up when she has more experience at trials.>> Question – If I decide to try something, such as not going as far in toward jump 3, I assume I should still keep everything else the same when it was so successful the first time round, correct? I was changing more than distance, and it showed. She is really keeping me honest, and is really clear in her communication back to me, isn’t she.>>
Yes, she is totally keeping you honest LOL!!! And also yes – if you are going to change one thing, change only that one thing and leave the other variables in place. That will help her let you know if the change you made was effective or not. If you change several variables, it is harder to know what was happening and why it happened 🙂
TracyHi! This went really well! I think did really well reading the cues!
When it was just 2 or 3 jumps, she was not really running because there was not a lot of motion. But as soon as you added speed into it? She was very happy 🙂
So I think the tuns looked really good and the next step is to put it into the really big sequences, so you run into it, do the decel & turn, then accelerate out of it. That will get her really driving and it will also give you the chance to play with the cues at speed. When you were stationary, you were rotating towards her but as soon as you started moving, your facing straight and that was better 🙂 Her commitment and turn looked great, so I think she is ready for more 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi! This went really well! I think did really well reading the cues!
When it was just 2 or 3 jumps, she was not really running because there was not a lot of motion. But as soon as you added speed into it? She was very happy 🙂
So I think the tuns looked really good and the next step is to put it into the really big sequences, so you run into it, do the decel & turn, then accelerate out of it. That will get her really driving and it will also give you the chance to play with the cues at speed. When you were stationary, you were rotating towards her but as soon as you started moving, your facing straight and that was better 🙂 Her commitment and turn looked great, so I think she is ready for more 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi! She seemed pretty happy to bang the teeter around in this session! And I think the sound of it was just fine: a little sound but not too much noise.
The broom toy in the first part was definitely high value – she was very engaged and did not seem worried about the noise or movement at all! She was at her happiest when you released her to get her broom toy when you moved it further from the teeter – she was not as engaged with it when you kept it close to the teeter. That was really the only indication that it was a hard game for her. So, keep using it and when you click, you can run away a few steps to get her happy to chase the broom.
She definitely liked the squeeze cheese too! She kind of wandered off between reps, so you can get her to hop on, then click and release to get the cheese (rather than reward in position). And then she will be right back in the right spot to hop on again 🙂
You can also play this game for her meals: have her meal in a bowl in your hand, then hen she hops on the teeter, release her to eat the whole meal. Yum!!!Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I am so excited to see you at the camp! YAY!! I promise not to freak Ripley out by acting like he knows me hahaha
>> I’d love to hear more about the resilience training you were mentioning. I feel like all dogs need it. Rip goes the opposite direction of Dellin and gets frustrated with me when he knows something’s gone wrong. >>
It is fascinating to look at the behavior outside of the operant conditioning framework we have been using all these years. I will totally put together some more thoughts on the resilience conditioning! Turns out I have been doing some of it all along (some of it was intentional, some of it was accidental but I am going to pretend it was purposeful hahaha!) It is basically like the dogs need a toolbox of resilience skills that they can draw from, either with our help or by themselves because sometimes we humans are too busy screwing up the handling 🙂
I have been insanely lucky to have gotten hooked up with the Barking Brains and Behavior Vets people in the past year, and it has really changed how I view some things. In particular, the Chief Science Officer/neuroscientist/DVM can explain what is happening in the brain in a really accessible way (and is great for those of us that love to geek out haha) The teeter question from Dellin? Has nothing to do with the teeter itself, and more to do with where her brain is at this moment. The questions from Ripley? Same basis. The neuroscience that is underneath the behavior is driving her responses, not the teeter or anything the momma did. Fascinating from the outside perspective, but *challenging* to be the owner/handler/trainer, right?!?!
>>So, even though it looks very different, it’s the same emotional basis (lack of clarity, confusion, worry, etc.) and then expressing those emotions in a way that may not be super productive and happy making.>>
Totally agree! And even though the behavior is different in terms of arousal state, it is really all the same in the brain from what the scientist folks tell me 🙂 It is helpful info from the dog, as long as we have the resilience conditioning in place along with some other things that we trainers consider to be operant but also manipulate what is happening in the brain.
Also, we need to remember we are working with adolescent dogs and their adolescent brains… I can relate! I used to teach adolescent male humans and oh wow, did they sometimes have out-sized emotional responses to minor frustrations. The joys of the adolescent brain 🙂 I am pretty sure I was no gem as an adolescent either LOL! So part of it is that the adolescent brain cannot process some of the complex tasks we ask our adolescent dogs to do as we train them to compete. Most dogs debut in the ring right smack in the middle of the adolescent period. The behavior/scientist types think we are NUTS to do that LOL! I mean, they are not wrong…
I am also working on a DOSE (dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins) protocol to bring dogs back from a stressful event as quickly as possible, for working or performance dogs, without any long-lasting associations with the environment or training. So far, I have used it a grand total of one time (with a MaxPup grad who had 2 really stressful things happen simultaneously in a flyball run, and got really upset). Worked like a charm and he came back an hour later as if nothing had happened. My nerdy self was very happy, as was the dog and handler LOL!!!
Stay tuned for more!
TracyHi!
I love the animal audience! She is going to think agility trials are very quiet compared to home life LOL!The first video looked great. You can rotate sooner on the right wrap (FC) on the first rep – you faced forward a little bit too long so her turn was a bit wider. But that might have been a product of the smaller spacing – you can spread it out to give you time to indicate 2 as she is jumping 1, then decel and rotate before she passes you. The rotation on the left turn on rep 2 (spin) and also on rep 3 was earlier, so she had a gorgeous turn on those.
>> I see on the video that I started the last sequence on the tunnel then on to #1-#6. When I watch the BC #4-#5 I’m running into #5 which looks and feels super awkward. Not sure she needs all that “help”>>
No worries about starting with the tunnel, she enjoyed it! The wrap and the BC also looked good here. I agree that she might not need the help on 5 in this situation – she reads lines really well, so after the blind you can connect and move up the line – I bet she finds it perfectly 🙂
The sheep were hilarious on the 2nd video – so angry! Maybe they don’t like forced front crosses?
>> First efforts were spoiled by my twitching early. So I worked a bit and came back next day working on one jump away from the sequence. I’ve included that whole session here so you can see how its going. Not sure if I should stay on the one jump a bit longer or ?>>
The session went well, there was really no early twitching at all, and she read everything really well. You did each cue and she really only had one question (see below), reading the FFC, the threadles and the lead out push correctly eachtime. Yay! So since you are not twitching anymore, you can move this to the sequences 🙂 You can put a leash on the ground to help know when to move, so you don’t move too soon 🙂 Her stays looked great and click/treat to you for lining her up properly to face the line you wanted!
Two things from the video: you started off being a little too visible outside of the wing, then you moved yourself over so that most of you was behind the wing (for the FFC and threadles), with your arm being what mostly showed. That was the best position (such as at 1:05) and that really helped the cues. When you do the throwbacks, try not to move backwards as much. You can (figuratively) throw her back behind you like you did at 2:10, that was great!
She only had one question and I don’t think it was because you moved too soon – it was on the cross arm threadle at 3:29. She almost took the front side even though you were relatively stationary. Hmmmm…. she had no questions at :26 when you did the one-arm threadle, but you were also more visible outside the wing on that one. So try splitting the difference – be in a position where more of you is behind the wing, and use the one-arm threadle, and see if she still has a question.
But yes, totally move to the sequences with this skill 🙂 And we will be looking at more videos until Sept 15.
Great job!
TracyHi!
I think the live class sequences are fun to work on, no rush to get to package 5 🙂
This session was A Tale Of Three Shoulder Positions. It was very subtle and it is also a good example of how dogs seem to see EVERYTHING. So interesting!!
Looking at the three reps, I froze the video as she was over 2 to see what she saw that produced 3 different responses:At :05, your shoulders and chest were clearly pointing to 3 and your arm was down (and you were connected). Your arm did come up, but it was after she was on the line. She knew where to go and powered up the line.
At :17, as she was over 2, your shoulders and chest were turned to the tunnel and your arm was very high. So she trotted to the tunnel, seeming to say: “your voice is saying one thing but your shoulders are saying another, so….. tunnel.” LOL!
At :27, you had a mix of the 2: shoulders & chest more to the #3 jump but arm a little high, so she went to the jump but was not entirely convinced.
She votes for the info you delivered on the first rep, where you faced the #3 jump longer and with a lower arm. I am not sure if you took one more step or not, but one more step will totally help set the line and you will still easily be waiting for her at 5.
>>I realized later that #5 was supposed to be the back side. Actually, I had to pull her over to go over the front, and I was up there in plenty of time, so I don’t think a back side would have been a problem>>
Totally agree – the front of 5 is harder so the back will be even easier 🙂 Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> The lalala cue is his left turn jump cue. I thought it seemed like in the opening he needed to turn (curve), not just run straight which is why I was giving him that cue.
Makes sense! It is not wrong to do that, but you might not need todo it (your position and motion in those spots cue the gentle lefts really clearly). And if you don’t use it, you have a moment to take a breath 🙂 and also that will allow the other verbals to be more salient because they will really pop out as he is running, making them easier to process.
>>His dig dig cue is his wrap to the left. We were having a hard time in that spot and then when he turned the other way, I wondered if that was better for him. Your notes on how to work on that spot make sense and we will definitely try that.>>
Keep me posted! The timing falls into the “earlier than you think” category but then when you get it locked in, he will turn beautifully.
>> However, it won’t be for a little while as we are currently in New Brunswick at the UKI Canadian Open (just arrived this evening).>>
Have a blast!!! The courses looked terrific.
Tracy
Hi!
Does he understand some wing wraps? You can do the threadle wraps versus regular wraps on wings. And also the invisible dog walk games 🙂 with the wing past the tunnel rather than a jump – he is too young to jump but we can introduce some concepts on tunnels and wings!T
Hi!
>> So much of them went well. >>
I totally agree! So many great parts and the hardest stuff just needed a little tweak or a little more dog training.
>>I “used”Tina as well. That’s the stuff I’ve been trying to do more of. Layering and distance
Yes, that was helpful to have someone else to throw the reinforcement for the layering – that was a dog training element that needed rewards. The layering and distance is becoming a big part of course design lately, so that is why I am including a whole lot 🙂
Looking at the videos:
Course 1:
>> I need to be so far ahead at 3 to get both backsides, but how do I get there?
This opening is all about moving forward the whole time, trusting your commitment, and being able to cue the backside slices from at least halfway across the bar: send to 1, send to 2 then run past the exit wing of 3 as close as possible to both get you ahead and show her which direction to go. You were helping a little too much by waiting at 2 a little and sending to 3 from the near the entry wing – so as you ran to the exit, you ended up running sideways (parallel to the bar of 3). That is why she thought you wanted the tunnel (your motion was showing that). And it is also why it was hard to ge the connection and the send to the backside at 4: if you didn’t get past the wing of 3 before she took off for 3, it was really hard to get 4. And then you get caught between the uprights at 4. So this opening is all about being able to cue the backside (especially at 3) from the center of the bar or even further over towards the exit wing. Lots of trusting and verbals and connection while you run forward. 🙂
You can give her a brake arm on the jump between the frame and DW, so she turns before takeoff – release from the a-frame with the directional and brake arm, then get outta there all before she takes off so she reads the line to the DW.
Super nice independent DW! If possible, keep moving and do the BC on the line after the DW. You stopped then did a FC there at :58, which caused the bar to come down. The stop-then-go plus the rotation of the FC makes it hard to get off her line in time, but staying in motion and doing a BC will totally get the info to her sooner.
Good job on the middle section (Teeter to tunnel). For the layering, motion really supports the line so be sure to move more to get the layering: don’t get ahead then decel and don’t go past the dog walk because then you had to decel and pull away, which brought her to you. Instead, go a little deeper to the tunnel and then run out of it on a parallel path to her line, straight past the DW. And yes, keep rewarding 🙂 that was smart training! The ending line will be much easier when the layering is more independent.
Course 2: nice opening!!! Nice rear cross to the frame!
She found this layering line easily. Yay! After the layering, be a little further across the backside jump so you canget a blind, the RC is awkward there 🙂 because you end up in her way as she is jumping. That backside jump position is the same as the one for jump 3 in the opening of course 1: try to push and send from at least the middle of the bar, or even closer to the exit wing, so that you are able to get nicely ahead for the blind.
Speaking of backside positional cues: for the backside circle wrap before the tunnel, run to where the wing meets the bar (at :30 for example) then decel and rotate so she sees the full wing. That way, as she passes you, your feet will face the tunnel (she thought it was a slice each time through there because you were blocking her line and then rotating to the front of the jump a bit, even when she did turn the correct way on landing).
Great layering rewards! Here too!
For the threadle/wrap lap turn at 1:09 before the DW, you can decel there too so you will be more center-of-the-bar to set the turn. Resist temptation to back up, because that looked a bit like the slice and not the wrap. Then stay connected to get her to the DW (although maybe she might have been looking for reward there LOL!)For the ending line, the concepts are similar to course 1 with the independence: your threadle was good! So then you can leave even sooner (as soon as she turns her head to the jump, then push to the backside (send from center of bar) then get outta there 🙂
3rd video: working the pieces
Nice work building up the layered line with lots of reinforcement! It totally helps her.
When you were tackling the course 1 opening backsides, I think it shows us how the dogs read the positional cues:
For the push to slice, as she is heading to 2, you can already be moving to the center of the bar for 3 or further over, to be showing the backside line before she even lands from 2! Then you can be way ahead for 3-4. And when you pass the exit wing of 3, be sure to keep your arm back and make a massive connection so that your lower body can be sliding away to 4, but your upper body (eyes, shoulders, verbal) will be showing the backside cue.
You were playing with the backside RC – try to keep your arm back on that one and decel to set the line. Then as she gets to your hip, you can step forward to the center of the bar to drive her to the RC. That is also a good way to show the 2-3-4 line!Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I am also glad you had it on video! I totally believed you when you wrote about it or talked about it, but the visual is definitely useful. And that is GREAT because the visual is what knocked some sense into my head that we are not looking at this from the right way (operantly) when she is asking us to help her learn to handle these changes or “surprises”. I know you can train the teeter and the heeling, etc, so this is more about the ‘a-ha!’ moment of finding something that can help her out in a much bigger and more important way. I sent a note to one of my colleagues who is currently specializing in the behavior and neuroscience of resilience and we will put together some fun ideas for you to play with! Resilience conditioning is actually SUPER fun 🙂T
Poor girl! I hope she feels better ASAP!
How old is the pup now? I am sure there are ways to break down the ESC stuff and some of the skills. And you can do the walk throughs of the big courses!Hi! Thanks for sending the teeter video:
>> and she had a total meltdown – would not chase or bring the toy back -acted very suspicious of the whole set up, like I had muddied the picture for her. She initially goes after the HR, but won’t pick it up, bring it to me, catch it when thrown to her or tug on it. Then she flops over and does all her appeasement stuff, so I quit.
It was a very big emotional reaction, indeed, for very small variables that had changed (the toy and you were moving a little bit more- neither are aversive, both are safe and valuable in other contexts). Neither of those two things should, theoretically, produce such a big reaction when we look at this in terms of operant conditioning. However, this being something not uncommon and also happening in other places means it is outside of operant conditioning.
>> I’ll be lucky if she even gets back on there tomorrow.
I would wait a day before putting her back on it, and also this:
>> I have noticed with her that if I take too big a leap and the picture changes too much that she will tell me she’s confused by quitting. I left that in the video so you can see what I’m dealing with. It seems like if normal dogs can modify a piece of training in one step, Dellin needs 3 steps. Just an observation I’ve made with working on heeling.>>
After pondering it a bit overnight, I think this has to do with resilience conditioning more than training technique, looping, etc – the operant side works up until where there is a small change in the environment, then she struggles. So when we can control the change? Ok, no worries, we don’t need to put the toy in the training and can therefore avoid the meltdown (or whatever causes it in the heeling or other behaviors).
However… when we cannot control the variable (because it is in the environment or because we mistakenly changed the reinforcement procedure) or there is an error, she needs the coping skills and resilience conditioning to be able to come back to interaction and engagement without the appeasement behavior. So, I can pull out the resilience conditioning resources if you are interested – dogs with resilience conditioning will not have these kinds of struggles when we train operantly. I am confident that you can thinly slice the behaviors and train them while avoiding the meltdowns – it is when you cannot control something in the environment or if you try something different for reinforcement that might cause big struggles that bleed over into other things – thus the resilience conditioning ideas. Dogs with resilience conditioning will tell us they are confused or worried by offering questions or behavior within the context of what we are doing; dogs in need of resilience conditioning will be unable to continue to engage or offer behavior, which is what seemed to happen here. Let me know what you think!
>> In an effort to get her back to some sort of happy place, I went back to the sequence to work on the turns at 5 with RC or FC. She got back on the HR there and was acting normally again.>>
Yes – motion and HR were all good there! They are within a predictable context, so it was fine. But if a variable changed, we need to build resilience conditioning to make sure that she can remain engaged and not have a big struggle.
Also, be sure to make sure she has no pain, anywhere. Pain somewhere can cause this type of emotional response and she looked a little stiff in her jumping here, carrying her hind end a bit over the jumps (rather than extending) and not as fluid through her spine. I wonder if she is feeling something, somewhere, and that correlates to lack of resilience in other training areas.
>>The RC is hard to see and some of it gets cut off because the turns are super wide. I’m really horrible at those.
Actually, you are not horrible at all! They went pretty well at the beginning and end of the video 🙂 It looks like she read them as left turns correctly, which is the hardest part. On these specific RCs, you need to add deceleration so she can collect for the wrap – you were accelerated all the way through. So as she is landing from 3, you can be at 4 and setting the RC diagonal. Then as she lands from 4 and you are moving up the diagonal, add a big decel and she will add the collection. You can give yourself a bit more room between the jumps so that she has more strides to set up the collection before making a takeoff decision.
Same thing for the FC wraps to the right: add more decel. Because the spacing is tight here, you will probably need to start that decel when she is over 4, so when she lands she can already prepare for the collected turn (or spread things out to 21 feet or so, giving you both more time & space to set up the collection). She read the difference between the turns really well, so it is just a matter of decelerating to get the big collection for the wraps.
Nice work!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
