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Good morning! Thanks for the link!
Continuing on the obsession for getting her to drive away from you:I liked how you reward the first: rep and at :37 throwing the ball forward as you rotated and left. That was great! And you can see her really driving ahead at :37 and at the end, into the wrap.
The 2nd rep was not as good in terms of reward placement, because the ball was placed for catching up to you and not passing you And at the end, you kind of ran out of throwing room LOL but you can get closer to the wrap jump and then reward for her passing you to the 2nd to last jump (throwing it past the last jump, rather than near you at all).Great job! Keep going with the reward placement for driving away from you, I think we are seeing a difference already!
Tracy
Hi!
>>He missed the entry the first time and Stacy’s comment was I rotated away from the direction he was going and had me make sure to turn toward the direction he was going to weave. It worked. So he needed more handling support for the soft sided weave entry? Makes sense, and the little wing game will help reduce the need for that. On the video, you converged a little then rose back, so he was confused. But that also a training thing to work on, the handler motion shouldn’t matter there.
>>The hard thing is the last part. It was a 180 send to a backside slice The course continues on with a left turn ahead so I wanted to be on the left side and push for the back side. First time he got it, second not so much. Next time in we worked that piece and she thought the better option was to call in on a threadle to the take off side then blind after the jump to get on the left side of your dog, It worked better, but what I learned was at speed with a shallow approach to a back side slice we don’t do as well as with other choices. >>
That was right at the very end, yes? The bind before it was a little late and then you never quite got connection – note your right arm swinging forward which turns your chest to the front of the bar – so even if the blind before it is late, you can keep your wings in (arms in tight to you) and get a very quick strong connection to push him to the backside.
The threadle is also a great way to do it and might be easier to time 🙂
T
Hi!
Hope your weather is not too hot today! This video is marked private so I can’t see it – can you reset to unlisted? Thanks 🙂
TracyHi!
This session went SUPER well, actually! Serps are hard for the dogs!! And you were emphasizing the mechanics of connection beautifully.>>Watching the video I had started to close my shoulder and move that right arm.
Yes – at :20 an :45, you closed your shoulder and stepped in, which she read as pressure to the backside. Good to know! You can be a tiny bit further from the jumps and also yes – don’t close your shoulder 🙂 Also for now – angle the jumps slightly so that she still sees the gap but the backside is harder to push to, and the front is easier to see. When you add left & right verbals versus threadle verbals, the issue will go away but also, herding dogs are knowing to pop to the backside on pressure – so the angle of the serp jumps can be really helpful.
You helped her by putting the wings together – If you are going to put them that close together, lower the bar to 4 inches because the jumping gets crunchy even at 12” when they are that tight.
>>So,on the serp you look at landing and then what? Do you keep that shoulder back until they’ve taken the next jump?
You can keep the serp upper body position as you run (with connection to her as she lands) until you see her turn and look at the next jump – rather than trying to cue the next jump – and then you can ‘release’ the position and resume normal running.
>>I suspect this is a connection issue as well?
Actually… it is not 🙂 It was the shoulder movement and stepping that she read as backside pressure (and that is fine because that is basically what we would do if we wanted the backside there 🙂
>>Unfortunately, I don’t have great peripheral vision so that might be part of my issue.
That is why I like the toy across the body connection style – it is far easier for the dog to see and I don’t really need to see anything 🙂 I run in sunglasses a lot because I can’t really see in very bright sun, and sunglasses are bad for peripheral vision. So when I changed my connection mechanics, the dogs could see what they needed to see and then everything smoothed out really quickly. I think you might be in the same boat!
Great job here :) Tracy
Hi!
The serpng is going really well!!!! Normal position is great!! You can move to the sequences and because that adds more challenge, you might want to angle the jumps a tiny bit. One thought on the toy: I know she loves tat toy but dropping it so she has to stop like that. From high speed and turns is bad for her shoulders – does she like to scoop up a hollee roller and keep moving? Or have a big toy like a hollee roller that you can tie to a leash so you can drop it and keep it moving – it is better for their bodies to move in and out of the toy and just scoop it up, rather than have to stop hard to grab it.Great job! Onward stop the harder serp games!
TracyHi! Glad the weather is cooler!
Video 1:
Yes, more connection on the blinds is good but also – different way to connect. Trying to use your dog side arm next to you doesn’t show the connection. Showing the reward across the body will open up the connection a whole lot more: start with the reward in the dog-side hand than after you do the blind, show him the reward in the same hand, but across your body so the reward goes on the opposite hip. That will open up the connection while you keep moving. If you try to connect with the dog-side hand forward or at your side, you will either have wider turns or you will have to swing your arm waaaay back to make eye contact which messes up your forward running.
Here are more specifics on that:
Reward across the body
Also – you need to make a clearer connection when he exits the tunnel. At :43, you broke connection and looked forward to the wing, so he read it as a blind and switched sides. It is coincidence that the toy was in that hand – it was a handler error so reward your dog! You did not reward and marked him as incorrect by stopping, which is frustrating for him. Since we WANT the dogs to read blinds crosses, your job now is to assume that all errors in handling are handler errors and reward the dog every.single.time. Then figure out how you can do something differently to fix the error (the answer is almost always connect better). If you blame him by not rewarding, you will not improve your handling!
The same thing happened at 1:6 (disconnection after the tunnel) and there was no toy there, so he is clearly not just looking for the toy. Then you walked away from him… which is a punishment marker to the dog and very deflating. Your new mantra is: reward ALL the reps, no matter what happens! Then at 2:01, you didn’t quite connect either – so rather than tell him that you were late (he knows LOL!) get that reward out and flying ASAP. You were tapping it on the ground and then he walked away, sniffing. So every time something happens, correct or not, I want you to keep going and reward as if it was perfect, with a flying reward. Stopping and turning to him and leaning over is not engaging with the toy (similar thing happened at 1:00, but then you got the frisbee moving a lot more and he re-engaged.)
As he exits the tunnel, have your dog-side arm (right arm) all the way back and down to his nose and make a very direct eye contact to show him the line. And on the second blind – keep your arms in tight and make eye contact – you like to try to connect with your hand moving forward and looking forward, but when he is behind you he simply can’t read it and doesn’t know where to be.
The double blinds in the 2nd video were far more connected! And nice rewarding there – I want to you reward EVERYTHING like that. The ladders are also off t oa really good start! And check out the reward at the end – reward the same exact way when you mess up 🙂 Now, you might be thinking: “how do I know if it is a human error or a dog error?” Just assume that is human error for now, because there is a 99% chance of it being human error. And if in that incredibly rare occasion that it is a dog error? No worries, he is getting paid for his efforts so it is still worthwhile to reward him.
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Glad the weather is cooler!
Video 1:
Yes, more connection on the blinds is good but also – different way to connect. Trying to use your dog side arm next to you doesn’t show the connection. Showing the reward across the body will open up the connection a whole lot more: start with the reward in the dog-side hand than after you do the blind, show him the reward in the same hand, but across your body so the reward goes on the opposite hip. That will open up the connection while you keep moving. If you try to connect with the dog-side hand forward or at your side, you will either have wider turns or you will have to swing your arm waaaay back to make eye contact which messes up your forward running.
Here are more specifics on that:
Reward across the body
Also – you need to make a clearer connection when he exits the tunnel. At :43, you broke connection and looked forward to the wing, so he read it as a blind and switched sides. It is coincidence that the toy was in that hand – it was a handler error so reward your dog! You did not reward and marked him as incorrect by stopping, which is frustrating for him. Since we WANT the dogs to read blinds crosses, your job now is to assume that all errors in handling are handler errors and reward the dog every.single.time. Then figure out how you can do something differently to fix the error (the answer is almost always connect better). If you blame him by not rewarding, you will not improve your handling!
The same thing happened at 1:6 (disconnection after the tunnel) and there was no toy there, so he is clearly not just looking for the toy. Then you walked away from him… which is a punishment marker to the dog and very deflating. Your new mantra is: reward ALL the reps, no matter what happens! Then at 2:01, you didn’t quite connect either – so rather than tell him that you were late (he knows LOL!) get that reward out and flying ASAP. You were tapping it on the ground and then he walked away, sniffing. So every time something happens, correct or not, I want you to keep going and reward as if it was perfect, with a flying reward. Stopping and turning to him and leaning over is not engaging with the toy (similar thing happened at 1:00, but then you got the frisbee moving a lot more and he re-engaged.)
As he exits the tunnel, have your dog-side arm (right arm) all the way back and down to his nose and make a very direct eye contact to show him the line. And on the second blind – keep your arms in tight and make eye contact – you like to try to connect with your hand moving forward and looking forward, but when he is behind you he simply can’t read it and doesn’t know where to be.
The double blinds in the 2nd video were far more connected! And nice rewarding there – I want to you reward EVERYTHING like that. The ladders are also off t oa really good start! And check out the reward at the end – reward the same exact way when you mess up 🙂 Now, you might be thinking: “how do I know if it is a human error or a dog error?” Just assume that is human error for now, because there is a 99% chance of it being human error. And if in that incredibly rare occasion that it is a dog error? No worries, he is getting paid for his efforts so it is still worthwhile to reward him.
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
This is going well, he is definitely getting the idea! You can reinforce smaller pieces of the behavior – if he puts one foot in position, or is a little off to the side, you can get the target in and start the cookies. That way you can shape your way to the final position rather than wait for him to be perfect (because that frustrates him a bit). So if one foot goes into position, you can totally put the target in place. Same if he is a little angled towards or away from you – the target goes in at the proper position.
You probably don’t need to do as long of a session, that is a TON of food for a small dog and also it gets very repetitive. So rather than 5.5 minutes in one place, set a timer for 2 minutes, then break it off. Then in a different place, do another 2 minutes. That makes it less repetitive and also allows him to begin to generalize to different environments.
Great job! Onwards to the handling videos!
TracyGood morning!
The FCs and the spins are looking good! She was not driving that hard to the wing – was it super hot? She was worming with focus but not quite as fast going to the wing as normal. That made it harder to time the FCs and spins, because she was a little stickier. So with that in mind, you can cue the wing and when she goes to it – throw the reward to her after the wing rather than after the tunnel. With young dogs, value is frequently shifting so it might be that the value is on the tunnels here (she was quite speedy going to the tunnels after the wings!) and balancing in a bunch of rewards for the wings will really help bring the speed back for that.
For the tight blinds – practice it a few times without her – the trick is to remind yourself to turn towards the middle wing (away from her) and then reconnect on the new side. That will help make them feel different than the spins :) Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Good question!
>> I understand we should use the dog side arm to indicate that the dog come in and take the jump. But I’m wondering if this will be confused with the threadle jump slice arm, which is also the dog side arm. I know we’ll be using a different verbal for the two maneuvers, but I’m wondering the physical cues are different enough? Thanks!>>
using the dog-side arm is generally fine and the dogs read the differences with no problem. The serp arm is held out to the side, and the threadle arm is generally swung back a bit, like swinging open a door. That motion plus the verbal and different position relative to the jump (serp position between the uprights versus threadle position at the gap on the threadle entry side) help the dog understand the differences. Some people do use a cross arm on the threadles if they feel the dog can’t really tell the difference.
Tracy
Good morning!
>>So I’m basically not getting the connection back on any of the BC, FC or wraps! Is that correct? I need more upper body rotation back and to get rid of my arms? >>
Well correct, yes, but it is just the change in mechanics of getting the muscle memory of that toy across the body. So it is opening up your dog side shoulder after a side change, dog-side arm reaching w and back to her nose and for now, Avery direct eye contact. The toy (or cookie) across the body and on the opposite hip is that way to pattern the muscle memory – start it slow then get faster and faster… and do it all the time 🙂
>>Also, the decel eludes me. Again, if I understood my path better than maybe that would help.
For now – prioritize the connection. Don’t worry about the path, because if you path is roughly right, then the connection will make it work beautifully. And your path is better than roughly right, it is pretty strong! But what is happening is that you are looking forward to path and not focusing on the connection which is the more important piece. So for now… lay a line on the ground from wing to wing (or a line to not pass when you need to not go past the wing on a wrap) but other than that? Don’t worry about path or decel. They are secondary to the connection – and when the connection is in place, path and decel are going to be very easy. And also don’t worry about whether she is turning perfectly or not – again, this will come with connection. So – emphasize the connection and then the rest will fall into place very very quickly and easily.
>>I hear parallel the dogs path, but we don’t really do that or I’d be running a V. I need to send to the pinwheel then run a diagonal toward the outside wing, correct? This is where video with paths drawn would be so helpful. You are HERE, but should be THERE!>>
For now – don’t worry about any of this because it is directing your focus towards the path and not on the connection. Path won’t help her but connection sure will 🙂 Take a long line and run it from wing to wing so you can roughly see where to be, and just think about connection back to her with the reward-across-the-body mechanics.
She is doing really well with the bang game here! If the goal here is that she leaps into position with all 4 on right at the end, you can subtly tweak the position of the find it cookie – when you throw it far with your right hand, she comes back with a lot of speed was was tending to lose her balance jumping on – she would over-shoot the board and step off. So try a little less distance there. On your left side, she would get on the board in different places, jumping on higher up and walking down, so you can toss the cookie more on a perpendicular line to the contact zone, so she can approach it more directly to the end.
Great job! Let me know what if the connection ideas make sense as the top priority.
Tracy
Hi!
This all looks really good!!!The toy on the ground for the Go is looking good – make that a lifestyle for now, where either it is there in advance or someone throws it crazy early, to keep her driving forward.
RCs are looking better, I think they look better when you get on her RC line almost immediately, even before you pass the wing of the first jump after the tunnel – this is more like what you did at :23 – no need to face straight forward at all!
The FC wraps are definitely looked better too! Now let’s play with timing – start your decel as she is lifting for the first jump, not when she lands – that will be her ideal timing eventually.
Backside looks good too! You might not have to travel as for across the bar to the backside wing when you show her the pressure that early. And they looked really different from the RCs, which looked different from the FCs, so she looked pretty perfect!
Great job! Hope yo car staying cool!
TracyHi!
>>Between Monday and today’s session, it also became very clear to me that I didn’t understand what you meant by keeping going if there’s an error. I’m not sure how I am supposed to keep the sequence going if there’s a mistake or exactly what I should be doing if he doesn’t execute the wrap. Can you explain more?>>
In sequencing, if there is an error – like he misses a jump, or takes the front instead of a backside, or goes wide… just keep running the sequence as if it was al correct, then reward somewhere later on and in flow. So in this situation, you can run to the next wing or if he is facing the tunnel, run to the tunnel, reward, then figure out what happened. Young dogs mirror the handling and the training, so if something goes wrong, we carry on, reward, and fix on the next rep from the outset. Otherwise, it becomes very stop and go, and even when you are cheerful, he knows something was wrong but not necessarily how to be right.
So on the video – when he didn’t finish the wrap on the first wing at :20 and :41, no worries, run to the 2nd one, do a FC, reward in flow. Praising was part of it problem – when he was about to get it right, you started cheering. The cheering is no different from the cheering when you are delivering the reinforcement so he went to you (correctly). So remember: just the facts, ma’am, no cheering while he is working 🙂
In general in the outdoor session, you were trying to keep going and that was good! Then on the next rep – make a plan where there is less motion and you get the toy in immediately on the exit/landing side of the wing. You can plop it in behind you as you move forward, as soon as he looks at the wing and has passed you.
You can see the timing in the basement session: you were waiting for him to finish and that is too hard for now. As soon as he looks at the wing, as he just begins to turn, you can throw the reward behind you so he doesn’t slow down or even look at you – just throw it in there as you continue to move forward 🙂 You were beginning to do that towards the end, and he was getting better and better with his commitment 🙂 You can even leave the MM there, if you think he will be able to pass it on the way to the wing. Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I feel your pain about the heat, the forecast where I am competing the weekend is for 100 degrees tomorrow EEEEK!!! We are indoors, at least, mostly air conditioned but being in the RV and walking the dogs is HOT.
First video:
The tight blinds are hard! You are doing well here – try to keep your arms in tighter as you do them, it makes you quicker to show the connection 🙂 And also, try connecting across your body so that you are not trying to connect with the dog-side arm after the side change, dogs need the eye contact and don’t really target to the next hand. Here is what I mean by reward across the body to get the great connection on these blinds:
Also, that will get the toy out of the dogsled hand after the cross – she is not sure after the cross is the toy (which is right in front of her) is for grabbing or not as you send to the middle wing, she leaps for it a few times.
Her commitment to the middle wing on the FCs and the spins looks fabulous!Double crosses are even harder – this was totally not a mess! You had to sort out the timing and connection and by :53 it was already better. You got some really nice ones at the end!
Definitely try these as a hands-free approach 🙂 The trick to the tight blinds is the connection, so the more you keep your hands and arms tight to your side with your elbows bent, the quicker you can make the first and second blind. And reward her for all errors… they are all handling errors so she is just reflecting what she sees you do, so she can get paid for everything – otherwise she slows down and the doesn’t help the timing. And you can also reward across the body on these, with a toy in each hand to work the double crosses 🙂Ladders – these looked great! Her commitment to the circles looks strong in both directions – only one questions from her at :40, when you left with good timing but it was too hard for now. I am not sure if it was too hard because she was hot, or too early for her current understanding. She was perfect with commitment on all the others, so you can re-visit the one where you left sooner (as soon as she passed you and looked at the wing, you moved forward, which is correct!) and as you move forward, look behind you and throw a reward back to build up the understanding of yes, she can commit while you run harder.
Great job here! Stay cool!!
Tracy
