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Hi!
That sounds like a blast! And I think you got out of NJ before this insane heat wave: I am near Harrisburg PA and the forecast is for 98 today and 100 tomorrow. EEK!!!! Hoe you are all staying cool!Double crosses are hard for sure! You were smart to set it up in the shade 🙂
>> I was the best timing wise with DancR (makes sense she is my primary agility dog right now)
This makes total sense, because the dogs who understand the double crosses will respond really easily. Baby dogs need us to be perfect which is SO HARD!!!!
When you are sending to the wing from a decelerated position, the FC-BC is the better choice – the difference between the 1st two reps here tells us that on a send, you can easily push off into the FC and get great commitment and a great turn. After the BC element, you don’t need to push him back to the next one, he will read it based on the motion and connection. Pushing him back at :10 almost sent him to the middle wing 🙂
Same at :24 and 1:02 and 115 about the send leading to a great FC! Be sure to keep your wing in (arms in) to make that clear connection to get him through the gap – you were looking at him, but with a high arm and short dog, he didn’t read the side change into the gap.
I think on these reps you were handling the FC-BC more as a “spin” where you do move through it very quickly with no really strong connection after the FC. Try to think of the 2 crosses as more distinct, more of a Flind: Front then blind. The front need to be finished and he needs to have made the side change which is more of what you did at :09 and 1:23.
Nice double blind at 1:33! You were not quite quick enough t 1:53 and the last rep because you were so far ahead and had to decel, then try to whip through the BC really fast.
So for the double blinds, try to take out the send element so you are moving the whole time. To do this on this setup, move with him into the tunnel and run nearer to the tunnel the whole time, so you are barely ahead when he exits – that way you can move to the wing without a send or stopping, and that should make it feel more comfy and like you have more time to get it done.
Great job here! Try those again when it is cooler out, no need to try it til it is not insanely hot 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>> He seems much more willing to take the treat on the teeter versus off of it.
My guess is that the value of chasing the moving teeter overrides the value of the treat, so when he is off the teeter – it could move! But when he is on the teeter? Nothing to chase because it is not moving 🙂
>>Maybe a piece of duct tape… I used the tape method with my TFT and the target coaster with my pap and other BC.
Maybe an elevated tape with a wood slat under it, so he has something really salient to step his front feet onto for now? Was the coaster off the edge of the board? You can try both and see which produces better position 🙂
>>I also forgot to mention yesterday that for some of the reps I will do a front cross and for others, I will lead out a little bit from the end of the teeter before I release him. I have not yet tried a rear cross since he’s not that comfortable with them yet even on the flat.>>>
That is fine! And you can have a reward placed as a focal point when you add the rear cross – squeeze cheese smeared on the target or something to give him a forward focus as you rear cross. But there is no rush to add those, we want him driving all the way to the end before we add more 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>>I just can’t seem to get the BC right and I can tell I’m not running the correct line, but I’ve no idea where I’m supposed to be running.
Actually.. your timing of starting the blind crosses was FABULOUS each time!!!
So two things to help:
About the lines:
On thing you can do to help run the lines is to take a long, flat line and lay it on her perfect, ideal line. That is the line you will want to run on (then get off of) in the blinds.
So in this case , with the blinds – her line is from the inside wing of the pinwheel jump to the center of the bar of the next jump. You can get on that line in the middle as you do the blind, then move past it and across it, to get to the outer wing and off her line. When she went to the backside, it looks like you were still on her line so she was correct to push to the backside (as that is what the backside cue would look like) Much better line at 1:34!! And she read it really well.
About the wider turns… put yourself into connection boot camp LOL! No matter how perfect you timing is, if she cannot see the new connection, then she cannot read a side change, and that is what was happening here.
Practice the connection mechanics (showing the toy across your body with the opposite arm laying it on your dog-side hip) every time on every blind for now. Every one til it becomes muscle memory – without it, you default to arm at your side which closes the shoulder forward and blocks the connection, so she goes wide. Timing was great on the BC at :36 and :49 and 1:18, but the connection was not visible to her. She was able to start turning before the pinwheel jump but she couldn’t find the side change after it so went wide on landing.
I thought you had great timing better connection on the other side (:59 and 1:09 ) so her lines were automatically better…. But getting the muscle memory of the connection mechanics will really help.
I had to totally put myself in connection mechanics boot camp for a while, when Voodoo was younger. It totally fixed the problem I was having because it got the connections into my muscle memory and fixed the other issues that I was having. So when working blinds, don’t worry as much about the line after the blind: plan on where to hold the toy and how to move it to your opposite hip (which will now be the dog-side hip) as you finish the blind to practice the connection.
>>Sprite is turning but she’s not really collecting.
Don’t worry too much about her turns right now – if you do it, she does it 🙂 Her collections (or not) are mirroring handling, so it is all great info. For example, the wraps –
At :04 you were past the wing, so she correctly jumped long. You can use a line for yourself there, from as a ‘do not cross’ line so you don’t run past it – and remember to decelerate if you are ahead so you don’t go past it the wing (decel in general really helps the wrap cues too!) At :14 you were in a very good spot but didn’t decel (ran hard then rotated) but compare that to :30 – SUPER nice position near the wing and not past, with decel… and she was lovely on her turning 🙂
Great job here! And welcome to connection mechanics boot camp 🙂 Tracy
Hi! Yes, the bigger louder cues really help, especially when they start before she takes off for the jump before the layering. Going to the weaves was just fine LOL! Arm position is less important, it is more about how early you can give the big cues to send her before going into the layering.
You can also place the reward after the first jump – she is not entirely she that she is correct and trots to it a bit. Having the reward there will really help – you can put a Manners Minder there, so when you give the big OUT OVER you can click it… and leave it there for when you ask her to turn to the tunnel instead of the layering, and then click it when she does the tunnel 🙂
And then it can be a little off to the side, and you can click the MM after she does the turn away on the red jump and goes back out to the line.
Great job! Fingers crossed for a break in the heat – going to be 100 degrees here today!!! EWWWW!!!
Tracy
Hi!
I am so glad you had fun at camp 🙂Good work on the weaves here – yes, just letting him see the weird wing was a good idea 🙂 I think the wing was helping him and you can definitely add more of your motion going forward. He is weaving head-up on the reps where you were not moving, so having a jump our a wing out ahead will help him, and you can throw the reward while he is still weaving. The head-up is usually a sign that they are not sure of where to look… which is why he had trouble with the countermotion when you were going the other way. Having a focal point for him will really help – either a placed reward or a jump or something to look at, so he doesn’t try to look at you 🙂
Great job! How did Wager do with this setup?
Tracy
Good morning!
Min did well here!
On the first sequence, note how she is turning left before turning right on 4 and 8 – at :09 /:30/:54 and :18/:38/1:03/1:15, your running line was toward the left-wrap wing for a few steps, so she was lining up for that and then switched out when you pushed in, You can be running towards the center of the bar there the whole time, so she won’t zig-zag.
The layering was hard for her! I think a bit more explosive motion then the big loud verbals really helped her at 1:06!!! You were quieter and turning towards the tunnel sooner on the previous reps so she came with you.
The ending line looked good! You can try sending to the 8 backside from further away, so that you don’t have to pull away as much to get 9, making a smoother line to 10 on landing side of 9.
O the 2nd rep – a little disconnection at 1:42 got you the threadle instead of the backside and the tunnel send was hard for her on verbals alone! That is a good one to work – yes your physical cue the first time pulled away but ideally the tunnel verbal overrides that, especially when there is a dog walk in the way 🙂
Kaladin reviewed his videos overnight and did a great job with the jump- tunnel discriminations 🙂 Good boy!
Interesting that he turned to his right at :47 – I didn’t see anything in the handling that created it, so he was probably a bit on layering autopilot there (I mean, he did do that line about 10,000 times recently LOL!) Great job also working it the other direction, he did really well turning towards you for the right wrap and away for the left turns! Yay!Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Looking at this mainly from the perspective of driving ahead and getting her off of you a bit more:Be super aware of every reward placement. Most of them still come really close to you, so to shift the value to lines away from you, always throw the reward out away on a line while you run the other direction – even if you are stopping for any reason, still have the reward super far from you. You might ned to be creative if there has been a blooper 🙂
O the very first rep, I liked how you wanted to handle it. That first jump is a great place to reward driving away from you on the release – you can have someone else throw, or you can place a reward to jump start the behavior.
Doing it the other way on rep 2 worked but tat was all riving towards you not away (and the ball for 3 came for driving towards you
Good reward for the 7 tunnel – try not to be there at the ball when she gets it, you carry on to the next line.
Looking the 9-10-11-12 line – at 1:20 you rewarded the tunnel exit with you anding still and right there… change that to rewarding her driving ahead to 11, throwing the ball as she lands from 10 and is looking ahead.
The in in threadle at 1:32 was late and the physical cue did not support it, I would definite y reward her effort there with a treat or toy. The timing of the verbal was earlier at 1:46 but your physical cue of turning your hips and running line to the jump was too soon for her level of understanding (she dogs will still squeeze themselves in there, but most will not). Your hips and running line need to be forward til she has reached the backside commitment plane, which is about a foot from the wing (like what you did at 2:14 and at :16 and :34 on the 2nd video) Those were both handling errors, she would have had to run through you on the 2nd on in particular, so reward her! It is deflating to stop and go back when it was a handling error not a dog error.
Also, you can let her drive ahead from the a-frame for a thrown reward and not threadle the jump – since we are trying to emphasize driving ahead, feel free to change the challenges to get her on big massive lines ahead of you 🙂
The part 2 and part 3 videos are the same link, can you repost part 3?
Nice work here! Looking forward to part 3!
TracyHi!
>>I did win the food races twice in a row, and it did make her quite determined the third time. She really struggles to pick up a toy that is on the ground, even a tug, so it’s a challenge to find something she can grab while running. She doesn’t love toys that much and basically disengages after a rep or two. She likes the ball because it’s moving, I think.>>
The best way to get the driving ahead will be some type of thing that can move and be a lot further away (very hard to do that with a food toy) or you can grab and dance around with – I think the food has good value but I would like to go higher value and into something toy-like, because food rewards already have a conditioned response of being near you (due to the zillions of times the dogs have gotten good from our hands, from birth to everyday life to sports). So what about a giant hollee roller with a tennis ball in it? Or Jolly ball? If she disengages quickly… do far fewer reps. Do one rep and, win or lose, no worries – the next dog gets a turn (the glory of this is that your puppy and MC can also have turns of this game in various stages, and watching should fire her up for her turn). And you can use a moving ball (I have used the giant Kong tennis ball toys) and you can throw it – then it will roll a bit when it lands, so you can relate her and race before it stops moving.
>>I was worried that if I didn’t lead out, then she wouldn’t really be passing me. How close should I be when we start? If we’re starting together, how does she learn to pass? This is such a frustrating problem.>>
I guess I am looking at it differently, first just driving ahead, splitting it more. So she is not passing you – she is simply driving ahead for now because she is not comfortable with that yet. And split it where she is not behind you, so she doesn’t (yet) have to pass a place of value (you :)) before driving ahead. Let’s get the driving ahead stronger before we add the distraction of starting behind you on course and having to pass you then drive ahead, which has more elements. Also, if she has to pass you, we run the risk of her getting next to you then seeing you throw the reward, which rewards her for getting next to you more than driving past you.
Let me know if that makes sense! Onwards to the videos 🙂
TracyGood morning!
Yes, the classes were so fun this week! The 2 groups (Weds and Thurs) were so completely different and that made it even more fun 🙂
Excellent point about the tunnels – package 3 is done but feel free to replace the tunnels with jumps at the entry and exit. The smaller sequences are built from a very similar setup to the live class setup, if that tunnel is still indoors in your glorious A/C?
I will definitely limit the tunnel hauling now that we all seem to live in places that are hotter than the surface of the sun, thanks for the suggestion!
TracyGood morning!
Youtube definitely has a mind of its own!!! This was a very fun session 🙂
He did well finding the backside of the tunnel, no problem, followed by the victory lap LOL! You can put the toy on a longer line so it is still there when you need to place it, but you have the other end and he can’t have big adventures with it 🙂
Adding the wing definitely was harder but he thought out through and nailed it – GOOD BOY! And he was more confident about it on the next rep, even with the wing further away. Very nice! Yo can try doing tunnel – wing – tunnel and see how he does with it 🙂
Have fun, stay cool!
TracyGood morning! He did really well here!!
The reward placement out on the line really helped him sort it out! To help him immediately go into the layering before he sees the reward placement, you can start the loud forward cues before he takes off for the yellow jump, just after exit of the first jump – you were doing it when he was over the bar or landing, making the layer harder at first because he had to decide if he should turn or extend on the line.
You said it earlier at 1:01, and that was more of the correct timing! Also, he might find the GO verbal easier here to put him in big extension approaching the bar before the layering, versus the left for into the tunnel.
In your next session, add even more motion: As you throw the reward – keep moving up the line parallel to the tunnel. You were stopping on the sending (probably to throw the reward) so now add back in the motion, so he learns to stay on his line while you are hustling 🙂 Same goes for when you want the tunnel – using the same exact motion, change the verbals and see if he can process the difference.
Great job here! Let me know how he does with more motion :) Tracy
Hi! Lots of great parts on these, and just a couple of hard spots as you mentioned.
On the German turn at 3 – she knows to go to the backside but not fully yet to default to taking the jump, so that is a training spot! She got it the 2nd time and also in the next session so on the first rep of German turns in practice , always throw the reward in to the landing spot as you move through (as she is coming around the backside wing) so the value of the bar overrides the value of the bugs LOL
This will also help on the German turn before the weaves later in the course, so you can totally trust her commitment and do the blind nice and early.
Great job on the big line around the back to the dog walk,. And she did a great job finding the backside on 9 when you sent and left, in both sessions! Nice!
About that tunnel threadle… yep, you are not going to get the BC before the tunnel unless she can do the DW and backside without you going past the center of the dog walk – definitely a fun thing to train!
To handle the threadle, you can commit her to the 11 jump and decel as she is landing from 10, then turn towards her with your upper body (and maybe even feet for now) as she is taking off for 11 to get the turn towards you. Beca8se she is still learning this skill break it down to just one jump and the tunnel then back chain it (more like what you started at 1:15, but she will need to see it more before you add back the full line).
We had a good camera angle on why she was not committing to 11 at 2:27 (ad 3:30 from behind) of the second session – not enough connection. Yes, you can do one. more step on those moments but also increased connection will help a lot. As she landed from 10, you pointed forward with your dog side arm and turned your feet and shoulders away. You were looking at her… but the arm moving forward blocked her view pf the connection so she went with motion. It sounds counterintuitive but having your arm back and not forward will totally help get that send.
On the German before the weaves – the blind begins as she soon as she arrives at the entry wing – you were looking at her over your right arm for too long, so she was correct to land on your right side – it is a total trust moment that they will take the jump so you can begin the blind. You got it at 2:49 in the second session, because you started the blind earlier, so she could see the side change before landing. You can totally be close to the wing, otherwise she has to go around you to find the weaves. At 4:09 and 4:12, you were looking over your right too long so she (correctly) went to your right side Ideally you are looking over your left side before she takes off.
She had a little question on the wrap at the end at 2:59 and 4:23 – it was the pointing forward again – you were pointing forward to the bar which turns your shoulders, so she looked at you to figure out the line. That is another arm back, strong eye contact moment as you move to the jump so she can see where your shoulders are pointing.
Because these courses are so huge and the temperatures have been so insane, you don’t need to run them multiple times – you can skip the easy parts and the massive lines, to isolate the training parts (like end of the DW to 12, and the German turns) – otherwise you use a lot of energy for you both on the big lines. If you have nailed a section twice? No need to do it again, in any session, just to save energy and keep muscles from getting tired or sore. That way you will have fresh legs (fr you and Nox :)) to work the harder parts 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>. Actually, I’ve never used an outside arm for anything! After watching your video about teaching threadles with an outside arm and seeing this comment here, I have a question. I was talking to a friend recently about using the outside arm. She is very successful with her dogs and does not use it. Her reasoning is that it causes too much handler focus and then it’s hard to switch them back to the line or next obstacle. What are your thoughts about this?
I use the outside arm 4 or 5 different ways, and they are so completely different looking that the dogs have no questions 🙂
Here is a video that explains some of it – which ones are used for handler focus, which ones are used as sends, etc.
>>My friend I was training with, Nicole Davilli (not sure if you know her), said the same thing.
Yes, I totally know her, she is fabulous and so are her dogs 🙂
>>but is it safe to assume that the prop game helps teach this? She gets a bit sticky with the prop game after a couple of reps because she really dislikes countermotion!!
Yes, it begins with the prop games 🙂 If she struggles with it, 2 suggestions:
All rewards tossed behind you to the prop as you move away
Move away very slowly so she is very successful, looking behind you to the prop (and pointing at it) and not at her 🙂Onwards to the video!
Tracy
Good morning!
It is entirely possible that he is in a threadle vortex LOL! But also, he might be thinking about his lead changes, see below. AS things get more complex in the course work, the lead changes will come into play – the literal definition of “GO” is to NOT change leads unless there is handler support specifically overriding that. If the handling says lateran and shows now convergence, then the he should not lead change. Young dogs are literal, adult dogs save our hides. LOL!
>>In this session below I can see some reps where I give him a little excuse by thinking he’s committed and starting to move off but I’ve always been able to do that with him.>>
Yes – and things will shift back to that when he is more experienced but I think the other thing that is happening here is that he is learning that unless there is a specific cue to change leads, that you stay on the lead as the go line. So that is what happened at :05 and then also at :30 and :45 and 1:01
That line to the 2nd tunnel is an ‘out’ line where he would have to lead change away from you (to his right lead) to get to it – that is what you did with the extra pressure when he did get it right (it is a tricky sequence, that “out” moment bit a lot of dogs that ran this course, so definitely look for the lead changes
In the next session, you had more handler support on those lines (and when you wanted to change the lines – either a blind to change the line, or convergence to get the ‘out’ to the next tunnel that should, theoretically be a straight line from the human perspective, but is a subtle turn away from the dog’s perspective. Darned dogs, paying attention too everything LOL!!
Let me know if that makes sense! I am guessing he was not vortexing, and it was more of a lead change things, mainly because just about all of the other dogs that ran this course had the same question there 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>>not telling Maewyn which way to go and being confused on right vs. left) but I think I was better! >>
Yes! Lots of great moments here! And rewarding the smaller bits if perfect, especially since it has been sooo hot recently.
And if something goes wrong? Act like it was right and reward her immediately – she deflates a bit when you turn your back on her, even if you are turning away to restart or figure out what happened.
On the first course:
The opening looked good – you can tell her a GO before the first tunnel then start the weave cue even before she goes in it. Even if she misses the weaves, you can still praise and cookie the effort rather than walk away – it is really hard so it is good to let the dogs know that we appreciate the oh-so-close effort. She did a good job on the next rep and also at 1:28, where you had some converging pressure into her line and she found the weaves nicely 🙂
The line to the DW looked good and I like the BC after it! At :43 on the first video, she needed more connection – for a moment you had your shoulder back but then closed it forward, so she never really knew if it was the jump or the teeter. In that moment – just keep going and connect more strongly, so that you can get her back on the line. If you are going to stop, reward her immediately because she was being a good girl. The FC at :57 worked better but I think that was because there was more connection (as opposed to a FC versus BC thing). The BC will get you further ahead but does require really strong connection. At 1:41, you were trying to connect with your hand after the FC and had a lot of motion, so she took the teeter. The connection is all about the eyes there 🙂 So yes, as Nelci said: talk to her but also make a very clear eye contact 🙂 And if she goes off course? Reward! At 1:48, you used a left verbal and made a very clear eye contact and it looked great.
For the backside at 1:04 – you can run forward to where the wing meets the bar (like what you did at 1:54) rather than turn your shoulders – that shoulder turn pulled her in a bit t mcc sho she was not sure if you wanted the front or the back.
On the GO line at the end – try a placed reward or someone else throws it SUPER early, so she gets the practice of driving ahead no matter how far behind you get or how hot it is out LOL!
Course 2: The layering in the opening looked great! The 2nd rep was even better – the bind at 2 was smoother and you started the layering cues sooner too.
After the teeter – if you stop and praise, then accelerate on the left verbal… the acceleration will override the verbal and she will drive to the tunnel, good girl. So try not to stop moving when she is doing the teeter and release in motion, so you can show the decel and turn. You can also repeat the verbal a few times, so it is easier to process: left left left rather than a single time.
SUPER nice line from the weaves to the blind to the tunnel!!!
She really looks at you on the a-frame, almost coming down sideways. I think some of the videos had a mat there to remind her – definitely leave it in so she doesn’t peel off the side of the frame.
Brilliant work on the layering to get from the last tunnel to the ending line! As with the previous video – either throw a lot sooner or have the reward already out there, so she doesn’t decel or look back for you on those big lines. That will make it easier for you too, so you won’t have to hustle as much 🙂 to keep her from curling in.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
