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Hi! Good work on these, I see improvements already! Some more ideas for you to get even more driving ahead 🙂
On the flat – she is doing well for the food. But to really get her driving ahead of you… I would like you to win a couple of times. I don’t think y9 toucan do that with food, so will she drive to a toy? Throw something big that she likes and then you can totally cheat to win. And when you win? It is your prize, not hers, tease her with it but don’t give it to her… then do the next rep and I bet she SMOKES you 🙂
When you were going back and forth with the wings… I think she was confused as to what she was looking at, s for now stick to the straight line toy races.
She was definitely beginning to drive ahead when you were using the line of jumps after the tunnel . She was slowing down a bit waiting for the throw, or missing the jump so a couple of ideas for you:
– for now, no lead outs and you need to go in closer to the tunnel so she really leave you in the dust 🙂 If you were too far ahead, she was catching up but not getting past you as much.
– Have the toy placed in advance or someone else drops it crazy early, so she locks onto it and leave you in the dust! That way you don’t have to worry about timing the throw and she doesn’t look at you for it at all 🙂
Great job!! And when you tackle the sequences or courses again, find the big lines where she should drive ahead and throw the toy or place it to keep fostering the drive ahead.
Tracy
Hi!
This is going well!!>>What about arms when we’re sending to the other side of an obstacle like the tunnel? My arm, always too high anyway, automatically wanted to be higher since things were farther away and on occluded by the tunnel. I think it was way to high here, right?>>
For layering, I think a high arm is one of the cues that helps differentiate that it is layering (and not coming in to the handler). So I think it was fine, except for the one rep where you turned away from her and faced the tunnel (which she took :)) As long as you can see make a bit of connection, the high arm works well in layering. I promise the arm game sooner, it was basically thunderstorms all week here so no outdoor training was possible (and it is an outdoor game LOL!
She is doing well with the layering in general! One thought:
You can start your over cues sooner for the layered line to get her driving out more to it – you were tending to wait til she was one with the jump before the layering, but that su a little late and she was waiting for you a bit. She did better when you gave her the cue as she was over the bar at :40 and :47 but you can give it even sooner:
When she is in the air of the jump before the layering, or landing from the previous jump if you are starting from the one before it – you can already be giving your go go over over cues, repeatedly, so she know she has ‘permission’ to drive out there. She is slowing down a bit waiting for the info, but if you start giving it to her several strides sooner, she will be running the whole time 🙂The one blooper was just that you had full turned to face the tunnel so she was following your shoulders.
She got all of the rest of them really nicely!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Definitely need to work on that in isolation for me to get my footwork and timing right.
Stay tuned for Monday! Some skills work on that starting next week 🙂
The courses are looking good! Thank you for including the bloopers, they are very helpful: what don’t work versus what DOES work! More below on that. First, some thoughts on the runs:
First video – yes the toy was exciting but I think the question was more about connection and not the toy 🙂 When she didn’t take 3, you were not really connected so she was not sure where to be. But you can definitely run with it in a pocket!
The layering worked well here!!!
On the jump after the DW/before the teeter. Give her more of a turn cue to get more collection to line up straighter to get on the teeter. I think a sequel and wrap verbal should work but a spin can be used too!For the jump after the teeter – pushing past the teeter exit was great! So the next step is as soon as she exits the teeter to give a turn cue then get outta there 🙂 There was not enough turn cue on the first video. Then on the 2nd video you started there and it was too much helping, she was convince it was a pull and flick to the tunnel LOL! It was a definite Goldilocks moment of too much (off course tunnel) too little (flick to the tunnel) then just right at :53! Nice!
Then coming back up the line at :20 you said tunnel once but then pulled away – say it a zillion times and keep moving towards it ti she gets it. That is more like what you did at :59 and she nailed it 🙂 Then right before she goes into the tunnel, tell her to go so she doesn’t curl into you before the a-frame.
Stay connected at 1:18! You disconnected so she went to the toy. Nice tunnel send! And stay connected on the ending line more too, to help with the bars in tighter spacing at 24” .
The 2nd rep went a lot better!!! The opening looked good and with nothing in your hands, you were better able to connect and show the lines. The turn TO the teeter was better and then after the teeter, decel sooner: as she is exiting the teeter, you can be using your turns cues and moving away (you were tending to wait til she was in the air).
On the big sends to the tunnel, you can tart the tunnel verbals and acceleration soon – you were waiting til she landed from the previous jump, but you can totally start them before takeoff from that jump so she turns on the jets to drive to the tunnel.
And on the ending line: you showed better acceleration and connection on that short video, very nice! On the end of the previous video, you were looking ahead, not really connected, so she was losing info and dropped the bars. Connection and acceleration is the key!
>>We struggled to keep the bars up when she was ahead of me >>
In those instances, you can have a toy placed on the line, or have someone throw it to keep strengthening her drive ahead to the line.
>> But I included it because you said this course is to help us get it right the first time!
Yes! So the two major things I see are:
– Be as connected a humanly possible, over-connect almost because she is a baby dog and needs the support.– time all of your cues to happen before she lifts off for the previous jump, not when she lands. If you see her land and then begin the cue… the WOO has passed and you are late. So, start the cues early and repeat the verbals and use the physical cues, so she has more time to process them.
More on getting it right the first time coming on Monday too! Great job here, let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Great update about her trial success!!! She is doing well! Yes, time to finish the RDW haha
Lot of lovely work on the videos here – The jumpers course looked great!
Jumpers video 1: Nice job getting the layered tunnel on the opening with a rear cross! If she will let you lead out far enough for a blind, the blind is easier but getting it with a rear cross is great too!
She might have thought th course was done at 1:05 when she zipped away rather than find the backside of the tunnel after the out jump? She was great the 2nd time – try not to go in as close to the tunnel entry so you can finish the blind after it sooner – she read the side change but slowed down to let you finish it.
She needed a little extra help finding the bar on the backside jump before the weaves – you can look back at the landing spot as you move through, and also drop the reward on the landing side as you move through to keep building up independence so she defaults to taking the jump. The rest looked great!!!
Run 2: the opening looked good here too, and she did the same little zip away on the out jump between the 2 tunnels! Clearly taking a jump towards nothing obvious is weird-feeling for her, so it is a good section to set up and work on. She was quite perfect on everything else!
She nailed the backside blind/German turn before the weaves on this one, looked great! And so did the rest!
Layering –
To make this easier for her, drop the bars to 8 inches to teach the sill so the jumping effort is insanely easy. And… keep moving 🙂 When you stopped/decelerated, she came into you – so keep moving and also, stay loud LOL! You’re movement can be alongside the tunnel, but try not to stop at the tunnel entry. For the verbals, repeat them more, so it is more like :GO GO GO GO or OUTOUTOUTOUT rather than one cue for each jump, You have more of this repeated verbal at about 2:18 and it helped propel her on the line. And the last rep was great – lots of motion and very loud 🙂 Yay! She missed the first balance rep, but no worries, she was a bit on autopilot and got it really well o the next rep.The first Arram video is a Lanna jumpers video, not sure if there are 2 Arram videos?
On the video that is actually Arram: it was a little hard to see everything tat was happening (far from the camera with a tunnel in the way) but it looks like he was finding the line nicely! So, now we can look at keeping his head on the line and not looking at you…>>Clearly come back with dead toy isn’t ready for the barn :)>>
What about a tossed ball as he is moving and looking ahead? Then he can get it and you got the other direction, and reward with a tuggie or another ball or a treat? That might be a good compromise if the dead toy in the barn doesn’t work 🙂Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
The baby speed demon looked great here!
The first blind looked good! Be quicker to finish it once you have started it – you took a few steps before looking back at her and she barked.You were late on the 2nd one and 3rd one, waiting too long in the pinwheel and rounding the line with her, which made the cross late and she almost missed the side change: send and giddy up outta there 🙂 to be nice and early on the BC. Note how she gave you verbal feedback on these two reps 🙂
The last one was great , my favorite of the session- you left the pinwheel and did the BC immediately – note how she did not bark at you LOL! Yay!
>>My first video of lines turned into a training session on start line stays. I almost did a TikTok video because every time I got to the wing of the jump she threw herself into a down. And not a stressed out got a stiff down but I slammed down ears flipped back let’s go. And it was not random. It was every time I led out. it was the quirkiest thing because we’ve never asked her to lie down.>>
I saw her do it here on the blinds video – I think she is just excited and focused, maybe making sure she holds the position. So the #1 priority is to NOT ever fight with her about start lines (so much stress when that happens). And, IMO, fighting includes fixing them or telling her she is wrong. So – why not let her pick her position? This ain’t obedience after all LOL!! Move to the start line, cue a ‘stay’ and see what she does. If down is her preferred happy-making position, then go with it so he can be correct all the time and stress-free.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Haha is right! It would have to be in super secret, like my yard!! Maybe a year from now…
Yes, a secret road trip, I totally understand the pain, oops I mean the JOY of debuting a new youngster in front of the home town crowd LOL!!!
The sequencing is going well!
She is driving ahead nicely for the first 1.5 jumps on the Go reps… but you are late throwing the toy so she is decelerating and looking back. The toy throw timing should be no later than when she lands form the first jump and looks at the 2nd jump. You were waiting til she was in the air for the 2nd jump. The other option is to just place the toy so you don’t have to worry about late timing.
On the FC wrap – A couple of things will help her with the turn and the bars (the were all handler bars, not jumping issue bars :))
When moving up the line, run straighter to the wrap wing, rather than push in to the the takeoff spot so you don’t pressure the line and get accidental RCs. This is what happened at : 20 where she was jumping straight, not sure if it is a wrap or RCAnd also add more transition: run fast, decel, then turn. O the rep at :20, there was no real deceleration. At :24m you started decelerated then accelerated then turned, so she didn’t realize it was a turn til she was in the air.
:30 was nice! A strong example of the transition and not pressuring into the takeoff spot. :33 was good too, but add in more decel and it will be great 🙂
She read the RCs pretty nicely! But I think your RC and backside lines look too much alike which is why she has questions. For the RCs, try to run more directly to the center of the bar, cutting behind her a bit later. For the backsides, run to where the wing and bar meet – and for now, do this from ahead of her (you were trying to do it from behind her and her understanding is not quite ready for that!
>>She seems to know the word in a vacuum but once there’s motion, it’s too much to process(?)>>
Correct, she probably doesn’t know the word well enough to override the RC-looking cues she just go rewarded for, so clarifying the line will really help her.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Hope you had a good week away!!!
Sassy did really well here!
Go lines are looking strong at the beginning and at the end: Nice job getting your throws in before she looked back at you!When you started the FC wrap towards you and the RC away at the beginning, those cues were nice and early and she got the turns nicely!
You were later on the RC at :35, so she had a delayed response. You started it after she took a few strides straight, then turned. Try to start it as she is taking off for the jump after the tunnel: turn on the verbal and add the pressure towards the center of the bar.
That timing is the same for starting the backside cues – as she is approaching the jump after the tunnel, start your backside verbal and start pushing to the backside wing. You were late with that at :50, so she thought it was the front for a few steps then pushed to the back. Your timing was definitely earlier at 1:27, yay! That cue started when she landed from the jump after the tunnel, but I think you can be even earlier and start it as she is taking off for the jump after the tunnel.
I see what you mean about the RCs at the end! I think her questions were that you were saying ‘go go go’ on the line at 1:38 and 1:45, then at the last minute pushed into the RC – so she got it at 1:38, and the pressure at 1:45 into the line that late pushed her to the backside because she hadn’t quite gotten past you. So set that RC from the takeoff of the jump after the tunnel, with the verbal and diagonal pressure to the center of the bar.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
I am glad you saw the teeter behavior and worked to stop it before it became a “thing” – I have seen it in Border Collies and I agree, it is a dangerous high arousal behavior. I can see a little bit of here after the treat toss – he goes back to the teeter for a heartbeat, then to his toy.
So…. no more treat tosses 🙂 One of the ways to eliminate this behavior is to release forward to a toy All.The.Time. 🙂He is doing well with his teeter behavior! The one thing to add value to is getting closer to the end before going into the down – he stops a little early then shifts back, which is fine except it is a slower teeter performance and I think you will want the faster teeter performance 🙂 How did you train the stop at the end? He might nee a visual target or something to get closer to or touch, so he decelerates when his back feet get into the yellow rather than while his back feet are in the pink. Having a destination for front feet will get that – it can be something like a strip of tape as a target at the end of the board to put his front feet on. When he is going all the way to the end, you can keep adding drop to the teeter.
Great job here! Let me know what you think about getting him closer to the end :) Tracy
Good morning!
I agree, I think we can split this behavior more to fine tune it. On the first video, I think there are a couple of reasons why she is offering the 2o2o more than the 4on here on the board, so we can definitely slept more.
– you might be a bit too far from the board, which is why she wants to do a 2o2o (gets her closer to the cookie to step into 2o2o :))
– when she is moving into the 2o2o, you are leaning in and using body pressure to get 4on, so she is waiting for that – so try to be very still and upright to shape this, don’t lean in or use any pressure. Let her think about her feet 🙂
– The board is pretty short for her length of body, plus the angle is hard – so it is easier to do a 2o2o because the 4on is a little squished up for her, and she would have to have her butt right near the wall. Try an easier set up – a longer board so it is very easy and comfortable to stand on it with all 4 feet. That way you can just shape her to get on the board and stand still with all four feet on it, with a target for now.
I was also going to suggest you put more value on the target which is what the 2nd video had. You can make it even clearer for her, by putting the target on a brick or book so it is small and only the target – that way you can isolate the front feet hitting the target – I think on this video, she knew it was something with the board and scratching, but I am not sure she knew specifically it was the foot hit on the target. So getting the value on the 2 front feet hitting the target will be the next step – then the scratching is easier to add on.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> He does now have a nice stay which I am very pleased with! I think sometimes it might be fun for him to not have to stay so perhaps we will mix in some behind the back.>>
Yes, it is fun to keep moving 🙂 And it is a good way to reset in a training session instead of lining up for a stay. Also good for disc throwing LOL!
The standard course is looking good! The table next to the teeter added a bit of a discrimination element 🙂
The opening went really well! It would be fun to see if you can lead out a little less and be moving the whole time rather than being stationary for the threadle. Teeter looked great! Being further ahead on the opening can help get you across the field for that back line 🙂
The RDW looked great and so did the backside after it!
With all of that speed… see if you can send to the backside then turn and leave so you stay ahead as best as possible on the line to the 12 tunnel . He committed to the backside well and then you decelerated to help him over the bar at :29 and :45. I don’t think he needs that decel or cross arm, you should be able to just run up the line and he should take the jump on the backside.
Great job getting the correct end of the tunnel #12 from behind him!
The big layer got you to a GREAT place for the threadle on 15! And that was worthy of reinforcement even if it was not what you planned LOL!
>> Perhaps I need to do more practice with the wing there and add more motion approaching the poles, or approaching from something else?>>
Yes, he was having a bit of trouble on the weaves there – you were converging on his line then standing still to help the entry, and he had some trouble with striding in the middle. That is all a speed-related, so you can leave the wing in and be moving the whole time, but not as fast and with no convergence to help (let the wing be the helper for now, so motion does not need to be). The goal is to use the weave cue then leave before he even enters – that is really hard, so less motion will help for now and then you can gradually increase the motion. I think he will sort out the footwork when he is more comfy with the angle of approach.
On the ending line – as you were making the transition into the wrap, you can face forward longer to the wrap wing, decelerating as you start the wrap verbal At 1:23 and 1:44, you were driving in and then rotated, so there was pressure on the line and then you turned your feet to the RC line – they both looked like RCs to me and to him 🙂 It is a tricky line – you can show the wrap better if you layer the jump after the weaves, so you are drawing him to his right even sooner and there won’t be pressure on the line that might show the RC.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy>> I’ve always thought of moving once he passed the commitment line but I’ve haven’t really thought about the and turning his head to the jump. I’ll have to pay attention to that. I’ll look for some sections of a Jumpers course and set this up. Although I suspect that some landing side reinforcement is in order as well >>
For a younger dog, letting him turn his head to the bar will make a big difference. And, adding in landing side reinforcement as you move away will definitely help because yes, eventually, you want to move away as soon as he passes the commitment plane. For example – the dogs in my house ages 4 and older all let me leave as soon as they get to the commitment plane, or sooner! The 2 year olds? Nope! I need to wait that one extra heartbeat 🙂
>>I went back and looked at a couple of the layer videos and it’s crazy how just that little bit of change in line (me getting out of the way) on the landing side of jump 2 was worth .3 of a second!!! .3 here and .3 there and the next thing you just took a couple of seconds off your time!!! >>
Exactly! That is specifically why we obsess on handler line so much because it adds up very quickly and makes a big difference 🙂
>>Planning to reset the equipment tomorrow and play with the layering exercise with the straight tunnel and I’ll have to see if I can find a section of a Jumpers course with a Reverse Wrap.
There are a bunch scattered around in the package 1 courses 🙂 Have fun!
TracyHi!
On the one jump threadles video – he did really well coming to the threadle-slice side of the jump! And still did well when you added a jump before it! On that jump before it, I add directionals to help set up the turn. What I mean by that is, depending on the scenario, I will use a left/right or wrap cue coming towards the jump before the threadle (jump 1 here), then just before the dog takes off, I change to the threadle cue for the threadle jump (jump 2 here). That gets a better turn and line, as well as a higher rate of success for the threadle when I am moving.
He also did well when you added the backside after it, and the backside/blind German turn! Nice!
Speaking of moving…. start to move now! You can be walking through the threadle then build up to get it while jogging and running. I also balance it A LOT with any dog that has Border Collie genes 🙂 because BCs and part-BCs go into vortexes of all-threadles, all-the time. Sometimes I will send to the front-side/non-threadle side, sometimes I ask for the threadle.
He did well with the jump-tunnel discrimination game! I can see his point about going to the far end of the tunnel – tunnel is a ‘forward’ cue and because there might be a little opposition reflex while you are holding him, the opposition reflex plus the forward cue= far side of the tunnel. Plus, tunnel threadles are often ‘come in and turn away’ so I can see his argument there too. He makes excellent points LOL! When the dogs insist on something like that, I figure that they are correct because they have the best view of the line.
Then after a couple of rewards? That was the one and only tunnel entry in the game. When you stood up and put him on your left – it was totally a tunnel /discrimination because of the ‘come in-turn away’ element of the position relative to you and the tunnel. So this is good to remember on fuller course work, if you are coming in on that angle.
We are not doing a ton of stationary verbals, so it will be easy to figure out which he needs based on his line
I am also very happy with how well he found the jump each time you went back to it – a really nice balance of finding the correct obstacle each time. Yay!
Nice work! Let me know if the thoughts about the tunnel make sense :) Tracy
Hi! Lots of good work here! And good job working to make the verbals sound different!!!
Seq 1:
On the FC wrap and RC wrap back to the tunnel, run away from them more, try not to stand still. On the RC wrap, call him or say tunnel, don’t say corre corre because that is a “run” cue and could apply to either the tunnel or jump, as he told you 🙂>>I am using the wrap verbal combined with the soft turn verbal and it worked. For me, both the tunnel or the jump after the wrap were a wrap 🙂>>
He might disagree – he was hesitating on the “tap tap right” cue after landing, waiting to be sure after he landed. I liked the last rep (sequence 2 at 2:02) where you didn’t really say tap, you said right right right more and he didn’t hesitate and had a perfect line to the layering. He might need a different cue for the tap (to the tunnel) and the right (no tap, to the layering) here!
Good job working out the timing of the RC 6 – the call needed to come before the tunnel then you had to be patient to get him past you for the RC on the jump.
Seq 2: really nice! You were switching up the verbals a bit on the layering section – I think the right verbal then corre corre worked best. At 2:03 you went to the right sooner and it was nice, and there was more motion in general in that section and he no questions there 3-4.
The layering got you to the 6-7-8 backsides nicely! I preferred the layering you did at the very end for 9-10 – pretend you are going to the a-frame after 10 (or to the pool haha). And if you want, you can change 9 to be the tunnel and layer the jump anyway, sending from 8 to the tunnel to the 10 jump. while you layer and run to the a-frame 🙂
Nice work! Fingers crossed for cooler weather ahead!
TracyHi!
>>I ran this with dog on left from 2-3 and then pushed to the backside and continued forward so she went around the opposite wing and onto the teeter now dog on right. Is the last part what you are calling a rear cross? I think it might be but I never thought of it that way.>>
Yes – it was a rear cross on the takeoff side.
>>If I do a blind between 2 and 3 then I need to turn towards 3 at just the right time to keep her from taking the front side of the jump. I think this is going to be hard to do.>>
Yes, that is where the blind will work nicely – it was harder on the video for Keltie because she doesn’t really know how to do threadles without foot rotation, and kept going back to the other side of 3. So two options:
– delay the blind so it is a little later, more like when she lands from 2 and is passing the wing of 3 (on your left) then do the blind so she turns and faces the takeoff side of 3.– make the angle of 3 a little easier so she can see the takeoff side after the blind more easily, and then gradually work back up to the threadle angle.
>>He was favoring his right hind leg, the same one he injured in a fall almost 2 years ago. There is nothing obviously wrong, but we scheduled x-rays for next Tuesday morning. I am going to just work on the flat with him until then. He is his usual self, no limping and no obvious pain. He seems to enjoy working on the behind the back starts. He clearly loves cheese puffs.>>
I am so glad the vet didn’t find anything in particular! Was it your regular vet? Do you have soft tissue person he can see? And I am glad he is enjoying his cheese puffs in the meantime 🙂
Keep me posted 🙂
TracyHi!
I am happy with what she did here! Lots of good info for moving forward on each game.Countermotion – she doesn’t want to leave the magical cookie hand 🙂 especially on the right turns 🙂 So as you move away from the wing, throw the treat hugger behind you to the wing, to help get more commitment on the right wraps. Her left wraps look great, she is definitely a southpaw on this game! So on the left wraps, you can have her chase you out of the wrap for the reward. It is totally normal that one side is FABULOUS and the other side is a bit sticky, that is what you are seeing her. So for the next session: start her on the easy side (wrap to her left) to get the ball rolling, then move to the right wraps and drop the reward at the wing for her on those.
She is not a fan of the wobble boards – I can’t tell if it is the movement of the noise, but either way we can build up the love but toning down the movement & noise by showing a whole bunch of towels under it so it moves a little and is quieter. She wants to engage and was offering the compromise of one foot touch (smart girl haha) but we want her to fling herself onto it, so try propping it with a whole bunch of stuff to dial back the movement & noise. When she is super confident with that and jumping on it with all 4 feet, we can fade out the towels.
She was also concerned about the teeter movement/noise here, so I would make that easier too – there is not a lot of movement of the board, but it made some noise at the other end of it on that first rep – so try adding towels or something so when it rebounds, it does not make noise for now and that way she can build up the confidence. She appears happy to do *anything* for the MM but we want her to not worry about the noise or movement.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
