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Yay!! Thank you for the update!!! He knew he was at THE BIG SHOW so he brought his A Game š (Also it is possible that the excitement of that environment brought him to a higher arousal level which helped him focus in the best way – that is GREAT!!)
I am glad he had a great time!!! Fingers crossed for some dry afternoon weather ahead š
TracyHi!
She did well here with the lateral lead outs! I think getting into the release quickly helps her: when you got to your position and released pretty quickly, she got it right each time. When you were delayed to much (like the rep starting at :18) she had too much time to watch you and watch the cookie, so she didnāt take the jump.The other thing that can help you add even more distance is to toss all rewards onto the landing spot of the jump and nowhere near you. š If they are all out by the jump, she will lock onto the jump and not curl into you š
She had a little trouble when you tried the backsides – Yes I can see how the push cues were confusing at first with the same setup as the lateral lead outs she did, then with the tunnel right there when she exited the wing wrap. So if you want to change skills, give her a break so you can change the setup and start with a clean slate š
>>Am thinking of signing up for MaxPup 3 again, because we need to get the contacts and WPs under our belts. The Teeter has been particularly difficult because of Changtseās skittishness with motion and noise together. Thot that max Pup 3 would beagood place for her. What do you think?>>
MaxPup 3 has only a little bit of teeter work (foundation stuff) and no weaves – have you looked at the weave and teeter classes? Those might be a better fit!
Nice work here š āØTracy
Funny you should ask… the first retrieve game gets added tomorrow!
One thing I have done with my 2 youngest dogs is a LOT of trading to build up the retrieve, without actually working on the retrieve. I sit on my butt a lot, throw a toy or ball, then encourage the pup to turn towards me – and I immediately offer a trade so the pup comes back to me. It doesn’t matter at first if they bring the toy back all or part of the way, I just want them to bring themselves back! And you can trade for a treat or for another toy. Then you can either throw the new toy or go grab the other toy and throw it, and repeat the pattern. You can see some of it in the reinforcement strategies I posted and it is working better than any retrieve training I have ever done: the 9 month old and the 4 month old puppies have spectacular retrieves because it has been all about the trading (and of course built to ‘bring me the thing’ :))
Tracy
Hi!
Backing up is going really well! It took her a moment to get started, so you can start her with her back feet on the board, cue her to come off, then let her offer backing up to it.
Once she got started after the initial moment, she did great! Yay!!! Good girlie! And you were able to add some distance and she did well too. I think by the end she was either getting physically tired or a little distracted, because she was doing more bunny hopping backwards or ending up in a sit š So maybe a 30 second session would work better, especially as you add more and more distance.
Since we are talking about getting her to want to come into your hands and be happy with hands on her: when you feed her, you can deliver the treat and also slip a finger under her collar for a half second, then as soon as the cookie in her mouth, let go so there is no collar holding. We are just going to slyly fold in the collar touching. Let me know if that makes sense š
Great job!!
TracyHi!
>>Not much training has gone on in the past 2 weeks. This moving/house thing has had me exhausted. It showed when I brought her out to try the games we played the last time.>>
I bet it is stressful and exhausting! But things are moving forward and will be more normal very soon. The sessions went well!!
>>1st session of the prop game, I was not that happy with it. It also seemed like she wanted food more. So, later on i did the game again and just used food. Bingo! it was better.>>
So I watched both videos in a row, taking some notes, with this in mind. There were times when the toy was more effective, then towards the end of the longer video the food was more effective. What was the common denominator? Well, it was when you didnāt try to do any collar grab or hand play or even any big ready dance – she seems to perceive all that as pressure. When you played with the toy, got it back, then sent her to the prop – fabulous! When you clicked and tossed a treat, then sent her again as soon as she got back to you – also fabulous! Fast and snappy! She did go to the prop on the other reps that had the other interactions, but it was more of a trot. This is good to know!
So I think she has value for working for both food and toys, and can even go back and forth between them. But she is all business on the send – so all she needs is a bit of eye contact, maybe a quiet āready?ā then send her.
She likes a little bit of ready dance but not a lot (when you were more upright and bending over less, she liked it more and was even doing a little of the same monkey dance that Elektra does!!
She does NOT like the hand play when you would do a little smack-da-baby. She would move away from you and turn off a little. I think you felt that in the moment, because you stopped doing it š
And as you noted: She doesnāt like the collar hold and definitely does NOT like to be moved by the collar. She gives that a big š¤®š© LOL!!! So, since we need to train her to like it, a couple of ideas:
– take it out of this game and use the more casual interaction and all-business approach.
– try it in the driving ahead/toy race game: get her on a favorite toy or treat, slip one finger under the collar, drop the toy or treat and immediately let her go so she can get the toy/treat. That will make the collar touch into a game-starter and over time we can build it up. I also do a lot of scoop up, deliver a cookie, put down games throughout the day. And if you are doing something and she is not facing the right direction, no worries, donāt turn her – just adjust your direction and carry on.
One other thing that is happening on the prop game:
She kept turning to her left on the first part where she should have been turning to her rightā¦ but then when you switched sides, she would turn to her right when she should have turned left. So something about this is making her think she should turn away, so you can step off to the side you want her to turn towards rather than have her come directly back to you. Think of it as more of a triangle: you send from your left side, for example, then step to your right to reward to emphasize the right turn you will want there.Decel game looks great! She may be little, but she drives hardā¦ so you need to decel sooner š You were late (decelerating when she was 2/3rds of the way to you) so her butt was swinging wide. Try to start the decel when she is halfway to you, so she can get organized into the collection.
The blinds looked great! You can also add in a toy to this. We build on this game tomorrow š
Barrel wraps – yes, the collar pressure is obvious here when you hold for too long and say āreadyā and especially when you pull back:
Watch from :30 when you physically moved her then pulled her backwards with a lot of pressure – she started sniffing (stress response). Then you smacked her and she moved away. She did come back and do the barrel but we donāt want to build in any stress or frustration.>>You can see the avoidence behavior and her trying to bite me (not agreesive)to get my hand away and then she rolls. >>
Yes, this was from 1:14 to 1:28 – she rolled over when you reached over for her collar, then after you moved her physically into position, she gave a big body shake when you sent her around the barrel.
So, we can make all of the line ups much happier for her!
A few ideas:
To line her up facing the barrel, use a cookie to lure her into position. No more moving her by her body at this stage – top stressful and it builds avoidance behavior.
She is fine with the collar hold in the first instant if you are quick to let go and donāt apply any pressure;, so you can lure her into position, give her the treat, slip a finger under her collar, say the verbal and let go immediately. No moving her, no saying ready or pull back by the collar. That can make it fast and fun, and will eventually build to being able to hold her longer and pull back.
She didnāt seem to mind the body hold at :41 when you had your hand under her belly, so that can work if you donāt move her around physically (cookie lures are you friend for now, and also are very easy to fade :))
>>Maybe I just have her sit and say????>>
You can lure her to your side, cue a sit, give the cookie, then release with the verbal. But that makes it something you have to maintain, and also loses the one-finger-under-the-collar moment as a game starter, to build the collar love š
Since we are in the early stages and hashing out the mechanics, I think we can do collar-as-game-starter in tiny bits – it will build up really fast š
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>She is speedy fast and SOOOOOOO fun. I didnāt realize that you can buy that >>
HAHA!!! Quote of the day!!! And yesā¦ you can buy it and then it becomes our job to maintain it š
ļæ¼
>>I already want another one.Totally relatable, and also I am a terrible influence who would say to get another one š These pointy dogs are so fun!
>>She canāt do NFC in AAC until she is 18 months, so that would be the fall. I can go to fun matches, though. Is it different in UKI?
I believe in UKI you can enter at 15 months for Speedstakes, so you can do a bit of NFC over the summer (enter 2 heights lower, you wonāt need to be measured for NFC, and that way you wonāt be tempted to try to run for real). Basically, we go in and play with toys and do things that are insanely simple like some tunnels and simple sequences, so she thinks the trial setting is really easy and fun!
>>PLEASE let me know what you think I should do with her to get us to the top of our game.
The first thing to understand is that it will take you longer to get her trialing āfor realā because she really needs to be done with adolescence before we finish training the behaviors that have a lot of mechanics and before we add any trial pressure to these behaviors. My guess is she will have her first real runs when she is 2.5 ish? But plenty of NFC before then. And when you do the real runs, she will kick ass and you will be rewarded for waiting.
In the meantime, unfollow everyone on social media who has dogs the same age, as they start to trial. I am not kidding – watching that will mess with your head!
For example – I didnāt start training CBās box turn in flyball til he was over 2 years old. He debuted at about 2.5 years old and is doing SUPER well. And in agility, he started NFC at 16ā (he runs 20ā for real) and he was 23 months old in his first NFCsā¦ I continued NFCs with a real run here or there til he was 3 – now he runs a lot for real and is fast, confident, accurate.
>>I have a full set of equipment and I will do whatever course, seminar, etc. that you recommend.
There are a TON of good courses out there! But the key is to take your time, no pressure, no frustration.
>>Blunt feedback is fine if you think weāre off track or missing some foundations and need to go back.
Happy to provide feedback! I will let you know if you are f*cking it up hahahahahahaha š
>>We audited a seminar on the weekend and they strongly recommended gates and fences near jumps to ensure success to shape the turns and wraps.
My opinion on that is: oh hell no. That is a LOT of pressure and will ultimately slow her down and/or cause frustration. She is a baby dog who is fast and happy – letās keep it that way! No pressure on adolescent dogs! And if she is wide somewhere, either she doesnāt understand or you were late or bothā¦ the pressure of gates/fences is not what helps you be a better handler or teach her cue responses.
Plus, 2 more issues:
– all the gates/fences add more visual āclutterā for her brain to try to processā¦ and we know adolescent dogs are not so great at processing at begin with! So we donāt want to make it harder.
– all the gates/fences absolve the handler of learning about timing and connection by forcing the turns on the dogs. Bleh. LOL!Alsoā¦ as an adolescent, we know more about her neurobiology and brain development: she is twice as susceptible to punishment/pressure than to reinforcement right now. So we need to reduce pressure, not add to it. Also, in terms of stimulating the HPA axis, it takes 3x as long to return to baseline in adolescent dogs than it does with puppies or adults – so more pressure like that is anti-resilience.
Also – I know her parents, and I also have a decent amount of sport mix and whippety dog experience at this point: pressure like that will not help (and it is indeed pressure). Let her rip! Trust the process (more on that below).
>> I think most of my cues are late at this point, but I am worried that she is āgetting awayā with turning wide and I donāt want to have to fix it later.
I officially relieve you from worrying about that! Sure, you might be late, but no worries, you are learning how to run this little pointy Ferrari. That is why we are still doing tunnel-wing stuff, to maintain the speed while figuring out the connections and timing.
She is not trying to āget awayā with anything – she is working as hard as she can to process info and respond as quickly and as correctly as possible. The concept of getting away with something assumes she is trying to put one over on you, or is naughty, orā¦ all of which is not true of course. She is processing and responding brilliantly. We are not going to tell her she is wrong, she is doing the very best she can (and he is pretty amazing!)
You wonāt have to fix anything later. Trust the process š
The other thing with small dogs is that often the winningest non-sheltie small dogs do not look like they are turning at all. But they are turning – it just looks different in terms of mechanics. The best thing to do is let her sort out her mechanics and then give her info as best you can and get out of the way š The sport mixes are then the fastest dogs out there! I hear this all the time with my Hot Sauce (sport mix, terrier/BC and a tiny bit of whippet). She does not look like she is turning tight at all, but she will lay down the fastest time of all heights (which includes a faster time than my BorderWhippet LOL!!!)
One thing we will do at some point (probably in a year) is get the timing lights out and see what is fastest – cuing a tight turn or letting her rip? The smalls almost always are faster when there is a little less collection.
>>So far, the channel weaves and guides are helping her confidence, but she also has springs for legs, so she is just as happy to jump over everything or run around the whole set up so that she can go faster! >>
Are you using a MM as a target? Using only 6 poles? Break it down so there is no frustration built in. She might not like the pressure of the guides, so maybe try without them.
She also might be a little too young for weaves (adolescence!!), you can try again in a month and see how it goes.
>>Itās the high head that is the main issue when she starts weaving; it messes everything up and she barks like a maniac. I hope Karen has some thoughts on that.>>
I donāt know what Karen would say, but a MM at the end or a toy gets the head position quite nicely! And I start with the MM on the base between poles 2 and 3, then 3 and 4, then 4 and 5, etc – gradually moving the MM to the exit then 15 feet past the exit while keeping the head down.
>>Karen says that she wants the dog to look at her as it exits the weaves to receive the next information, so the reward is delivered from my hand.
I lean more towards the Jenny Damm school of thought which is give the dog the next cue when they are at pooe 6 or 8 so they donāt have to look at you š The dogs can see us peripherally, plus nowadays the distance skills require the dog to not look at us directly.
>> Weāre starting about 4 weeks into the course, so I will have to balance my need to progress and the availability of feedback with her actual progress, and not rush things!
Exactly! Donāt rush!!! Have fun š
Tracy
Hi!
Yes, there was some good neighborhood noise for her to experience here! One thing that will help is if you start each outdoor session with some tugging so that she is in a higher arousal state. Higher arousal states are linked to helping dogs ignore distractions.
And she totally got into a great rhythm here. The barrel is really big, so now you can wait until she is further around it before you mark and drop the cookie. We will be building on this game soon!!The next thing to look at with her is the Resilience Markers game. That way you can add more markers. The āyipā marker is useful, but we also want to expand her food markers and toy markers so she knows where to look (the āyipā tends to get her looking up at you, which i useful in some contexts but not all contexts).
Great job!!
Tracy
ļæ¼Hi!
>>Funny, I was in the laundry room with her today and just walked towards her and she backed up beautifully. Not even meaning her to do so. Go figure>>
She will move away backwards when you move towards her (we could see it here too) but she raises her head a bit and that will change her mechanics. We want to maintain a neutral head position with her lower jaw parallel to the floor – not looking down, not looking up. And standing still with really low hands (nose-level) will help get that!
>>Iām wondering if our Itās Your Choice had any to do with her downing. When we played that game sometimes she would down and back up in a down.
Possibly! Or maybe the pressure if you were bending over a lot?
On the first video:
This is going really well, and she didnāt do sits or downs! Yay! Backing up with the food in your hands is causing her head to come up a little too high, so letās get you sitting in a chair or on the inflatable ball, so you can get your hands at her nose level without your back getting too angry with all the bending over š And try not to move towards her – that gets her head looking up and we want to maintain a more neutral head position.Plus, having your cookie hands right in front of her nose is a great way to practice impulse control š
>>With the mat, she normally goes crooked when her feet hit the mat. Sometimes sheāll walk on it to seemingly give 2o2o.>>
Using the mat is good! This is going well too. We can clarify the start of each rep so she isnāt as crooked or doing a 2o2o š You can cue her to get on the mat before cuing her to step off the mat to start the backing up.
And during the backing up for both of theseā¦ stand still š. The more your move, the more she looks up at you. If she was bigger, it would not matter as much because she would be able to maintain the neutral head position while looking at you. But because she is little, let her focus on your nose-level hands a she backs up to get the great mechanics.
>>Donāt normally have the radio going on in the background, good distraction. Our it could have been she could hear the other dogs. I have to put them in the car in the garage when we train >>
The radio was good, and I donāt think it bothered her – she heard *something* on the 2nd video and that distracted her. It is also possible that he was not sure about how to start the rep, so she was a little more prone to noticing things in the environment. So, clarifying the start by asking her to get on the mat and face you (she can have a cookie for that :)) will totally help too!
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
Sounds like she had a fun weekend!!
The backing up is going well! She is definitely understanding that you want her to go backwards to the target, but she has some questions about the mechanics.
Letās get you lower to change her head position, which will answer her questions š With you standing up, he I looking all the way up at your hands – which changes her mechanics and makes backing up a lot harder to do. That is why she was either losing her feet a bit while backing up, or sitting (because the high head position changes the weight shift) or turning around because it was easier š So, if your hands are lower, getting her head into a more neutral position (chin parallel to floor, not looking up or down, but looking straight), the backing up mechanics will be much easier. The easiest thing to do is to have you sit on something (a normal chair would probably be perfect!) so your hand position can produce that neutral head position.
>>if we should go on to trying the ramp again
We donāt need the ramp yet, letās get her doing a few sessions over the course of a week or so with the neutral head position so he is very comfy backing up – then we can go to the ramp.
Prop game is looking great!! She was committing brilliantly and you were able to add distance and rotation. Super!!! Donāt worry about your toe point – when the prop has this much value, and she is very pumped up like she was here, then you donāt need to be perfect (one of our goals is to teach such great commitment that we donāt need to be perfect at all :))
She only had one question. It was at :43 when she went behind you to hit the prop. She is probably a righty (so that side is easier) and she probably needed more connection to stay on the original side of you (couldnāt see your face here :)) She got the left turns really nicely on the other reps!
We will be building on this game tomorrow! Stay tuned!
Looking at the goat game video:
>>I love the clicker in theory, but have never felt the coordination of its use very well
Yes, I like the clicker but we really donāt need to use it much at all! Our verbal markers can do the trick and skipping the clicker will give us one less thing to have to coordinate.
And on these types of shaping games, you can use a āget itā marker to tell her āyes, that is correct, your reward is over thereā so she doesnāt get rewarded in position and can keep moving through the target object (this is a useful skill for other things we will train).
Great job working the toy play in – and also great job switching to a different toy when she had trouble with the original toy. We want her to play with the toy, any toy, which is challenging after all the treats right there!
Next step is to do some goat trick shaping with you standing!
Markers video: this was a great session!
>>Again I fear that my own coordination issues did not help me out on this. This was our first time doing this and I am not sure that I liked the choice I made for the toys.>>
That is why we start it like this: to experiment with our mechanics and decide what we like, all why the dog has a grand time and is not expected to learn calculus š And I think she had a great time! If it was frustrating for her, we would see frustration behaviors (I didnāt see any frustration from her!)
Also, all this is dog-specific, so we are also learning her needs and what works best with her.
Using the same toy was fine, because it differentiates the markers: get it for the throw, release for the out, then bite for the toy in your hand. It went well! She needs the āreleaseā before the bite for now, but as she learns what bite means, you probably wonāt need the release marker.
Nice job getting the cookies in there with the cookie-in-hand marker and then going back to the toy! Lovely!Her only question was when you wanted her to play with the other toy but the frisbees was still there and higher in value. You can try throwing the new toy with the āget itā and see if she can switch to it in that context.
She definitely seemed happy on the wobble board for food! She was not unhappy with the toy, but the toy is not her favorite š especially with food right there. I bet the frisbees would work great for this, or even both frisbees: to make the transition from food to toy, you can toss a frisbee with your get it marker. Then when she comes back to the wobble board, you can toss the next frisbees with your get it marker. That can get her flying back and forth over the wobble board š And then you can work it to a ābiteā of a frisbee on the board for tugging š
Because she seemed confident on the board, you can leave the towels in for the toy sessions but also slide one of the towels out when you use food to add a little more tip.
Plankrobatics went great! Your turn lure was slow and low, so she maintained her coordination and balance. Perfect! Do you have access to a longer plank? That can get her moving back and forth across it, and you can also have her hop on and hop off without you having to use a foot to stabilize it.
>>I find the handedness in dogs really interesting and am becoming more aware of it when JJ does her work on her training games and activities. We have done a lot of work in the heel position and working with her on my right side is definitely not very strong. >>
I agree – the handedness is interesting and also very helpful!!! We can set up more success by teaching a new hard skill on the easier side, then switching to the harder side when things are more comfy. And so you can definitely take the skill she finds easy now, and work them with her on your right so you are more comfy on that side too.
>>I wanted to do more with the toy races, but found it too difficult at home. Maybe we can do more with this tomorrow on my teaching day at the club.>>
Toy races do require some room to run run run š Let me know how it goes!
Great job here!
TracyGood morning! I love your on-the-road setup here!!!
There were a couple of variable here that changed the picture, so he lost the rhythm a little at first: outdoors, you went from sitting to standing, adding a little distance between you and the upright, etc.
You did the exit right thing at 1:10 to re-establish the rhythm with the cookie drops into the bowls. That set up a lot of success! Yay!
>>Am I adding too much distance too early? Is it ok to stop him with my foot? Would a wing work better?>>
I think he was just having a few questions about the new things and how it was starting to look different.
So to help him out – rather than use your foot or a wing, you can think of each thing as a new variable so when one variable gets harder another variable should get easier.
For example – when working in a new location, start everything easy with you sitting and the upright very close to you at first, to establish the rhythm in a new place.
Then, when adding a little more distance between you and the upright, you can be sitting (in the chair or on the ground).Or, if you want to work on standing, you can bring the upright in close to you so he doesnāt have to figure out standing AND the upright being further away š
And I like to use a 2-failure rule. If I make something a little harder, and he fails twice in the session, then it is too hard and I can make it easier. That will help him too!
Nice work here!!! Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
She is doing well on the Wobble board! You can feed her with a more neutral head position so she can balance better – head too high or head too low and change her center of gravity which will change her balance. Neutral head position for her will probably be something like her chin parallel to the ground but her head just about her shoulders (not looking up, not looking down).
The fit bone was definitely harder. -it was very inflated and also she would have to scrunch up to get all 4 feet on it, which is very hard for a puppy. So two things to help:
Deflate the bone so it doesnāt move nearly as much under her and she can balance better. And, if you have a 2nd bone or something similar, you can put put it next to the 1st one so she has a wider playing field to get all of her feet on. It doesnāt have to be 2 fit bones, it can be 3 or 4 deflated different things all placed next to each other so she can get comfy.>>I decided to skip noise for this week. Itās definitely something that we need to work on though. But I think she might be going through a possible fear period the last couple of days because sheās been very sensitive to different sounds so we skipped trying anything with that for this week.>>
Ah, welcome to adolescence! Biologically, there is no such thing as a fear period (per the neuroscience behavior vets) but what you are seeing is adolescent brain development. No worries! You can wait a few days, and add noise is a very small way: stuff 10,000 towels under the wobble board so the noise is incredibly minimal, and use more toy play so she is in a higher arousal state. And a good rule of thumb is the any time we see our adolescent dog being sensitive to something, we give them a break and come back to it at a different time, different day, different week š
Great job!!
TracyNice work here too!
She had ton of success getting to the backside and is also doing well with finding the bar when she is on the backside – YAY!!!We will definitely keep emphasizing the parallel line of motion to get even more independent entires, which will make it easier to stay ahead on the countermotion exits. When you were facing forward and moving forward, she was very successful! If you rotated too much or tried to step to the wing, it was harder for her to find the backside or for you to get ahead on the exit.
For example – At :35, you were looking forward and turning to face the entry wingā¦ which actually rotates the cue to the front of the bar so that is where she went.
Compare to :59 where you were moving forward more on the parallel path and she got to the backside really well! Add a little more connection directly to her (say the push verbal to her eyes :)) as you move forward and then it will be easier to add more lateral distance like you were getting at 1:17.
Great job on all of these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
The zig zags went really well too! Great job starting in an easy spot then working your way up all the way out to past the 3rd wing. She really figured out this puzzle so nicely and was shifting back and forth brilliantly. You can move the wings closer together to add the challenge of having to do the lead changes more quickly – then you can move to the next step of adding the bars (added here:
https://agility-u.com/lesson/jumping-foundations-4-the-zig-zag-part-2-4/ )Only one suggestion: you can start her closer to the first wing, right next to it and almost touching it, to help simulate where she would be on a backside slice or serpentine or threadle line.
Great job!
TracyHi!
This backside refresher went really well!
You can use more motion of you moving along a parallel path to her line, so that you donāt have to step towards the entry wing or turn towards the entry wing. That way she will be able to commit to the backside on the verbal as the primary cue, with the line of motion and connection supporting it. Looking at her more as you move up the line will help you not need to step towards the entry wing.Great job!
TracyGood morning!
Turn aways are looking good! She is reading everything perfectly! The 2nd rep and 2nd-to-last rep were lap turns. They seemed natural in the moment and she read them perfectly (not sure if they were what you planned LOL!) The 1st, 3rd, 4th reps and all the reps after that were all tandems which looked great – we are seeing these more on course lately than we are seeing the lap turns, so definitely keep emphasizing these.
You can spread the wings out to give yourself more running room, which should make the tandems feel even easier.
Great job!!
Tracy
