Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi!
>. I should decide that left or right means do the tunnel or jump, instead of only using it on jumps – then turn as you come out/land to make my life easier. I agree with basing cue on dog’s body not mine since I don’t want him turning to look at me if I’m behind and don’t want to worry about our exact relationship to each other if I’m ahead or doing weird cross/spin things.>>
I have trained almost all of the verbals to include commitment: take the tunnel and turn left on exit, or take the jump and wrap-right.
I have very few verbals on the flat only, but even those have a commitment element: ‘get out’ is a lead change away on the flat followed by an obstacle commitment
It can be super confusing to dog and human if left can apply to an obstacle AND on the flat – eek!
And there are plenty of folks who have a separate set of cues for the tunnels – so “tunnel” means tunnel and exit straight, and if they want the dog to take the tunnel and turn left, then will say Zoom or something. I have not done that because my dogs tell me they are fine with me telling them how to exit when they are about 6 feet from the entry 🙂
Looking at the maps:
1st photo:
A ‘get out tunnel’ 4-5 because it is more of a lead change than a real 90-degree right turn. The tunnel then scoops the dog into the rest of the turn>> full 180 to another parallel tunnel – all with handler 20’ away and not super visible from dog’s POV. Would that also be a directional since the turn was 180?>>
Probably yes, if it was the shape of an “L”
2nd photo – if he is on your right, probably another get out tunnel
6- 7 might be a right but also just a name-tunnel>>3 to 4 where I want to just stay at the entrance to 3 and run like hell as he commits to 4. Because the tunnel curves it is a bit of just a go on but there’s a rear cross kind of plus a front cross after that technically. Some dogs turned left coming out.>>
Possibly a left verbal for exit of 3, but nothing other than maybe Go for exit of 4, or a soft name call if the dogs were feeling pressure or turned left? On the video:
You said Go on for 2, then had to call him – a left would be good for exit of 3. The 4-5 was set a little differently so it was more of a left turn and he read it well with the body cue!>.Lots of people at these shows use “switch” – change your lead away from me – and I’ve used that with my previous dogs – but it’s just feeling too handler dependent and risks changes on the flat and pulling off commitment (which sometimes happened with my previous really fast and responsive BC).>>
I use switch in very specific places, like turning away from the exit of the weaves to a tunnel, while I layer the weaves on the way back. I think you can use it as a tandem turn/RC thing with specific physical cues as long as it looks/sounds very different.
T
Hi!
>>I think Ronan liked wingin’ it a bit more>>
It is true, he might think the lazy game is a bit stoooopid – not enough running! But we humans like the lazy game because it creates much better commitment without us having to handle with perfection 🙂 Basically, the pups propel themselves without needing handling help every step of the way. He seemed to end up being perfectly happy with the easy cookies LOL! And I like that he was looking forward to the jumps even when you two were not working very hard at all to indicate the line 🙂
Keep moving that middle jump further away – and you can also start further back now, so you don’t end up past jump 1 on either side, and he still propels out to the middle jump. Eventually we will add handling back to it 🙂 And it should be so much easier for him to find the line without you needing to be perfect.
One step sends – this is looking great, he commitment is lovely and he is fast fast FAST!!!! Yay! Because of his speed, I recommend more of a lead out on the tunnel sends so you can get to the exit ahead of him for the one step sends 🙂 You can also add being lateral to the front crosses (on 1 wing or on 2 wings) so that you have more time to get set up for the sends and FCs.
One small mechanics detail for each of you:
Karena – either carry the toy in one hand the whole time or have it in a pocket, so you don’t switch it from hand to hand during the FCs. That moment of switching is delaying the cross and connection (because you are switching toy hands then finishing the cross), and you will need that moment to finish the cross to stay ahead of him 🙂 You can see it at 2:30, when he waits for the connection info that was delayed due to the toy switch.
Mike, I think you were keeping the toy in the same hand so your mechanics tweak is to add some deceleration to it – prepare to decelerate while he is in the tunnel, so it is easier to set up the send and rotate to the wing (or decel as he is rounding the wing if you are sending to the next wing). That should help you rotate sooner!I think he is ready for more distance on this one – you can move the wings further from the tunnel and further apart too 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>We are still on Hell’s porch here in MN,
For real! It has been so hot there!
The overal shape of the one step send session was really strong, in that he sent and ran without you needing to also run a lot. SUPER! His turns looked really good too! It is possible that he has more drive to the wings than to the tunnel right now, so you can run more towards the tunnel.
>.or in my case, sometimes several step sends>>
This was only when you were a little ahead on of him at the tunnel exits, and had to let him exit and see you before you could send – and that is fine 🙂 Once you sent him, he went without you and was fabulous!!!!
The middle jump is just there for more turns on the outer wings and for more sequences. It was great to just focus on the sending here – since it was so hot, it was great to have a short very successful session 🙂He also did really well on the long plank here!
Did you see that very first rep where he ran the plank without you? LOL!!! When the teeter gets involved,be sure that he is on a leash so he can’t run the teeter board without you (because he could potentially scare himself).The cookie tosses were straight off the end here, and he was very confident indeed! So now you can toss the treats on a slight angle towards you – kind of what you did at 1:30ish – so he then has to find the entry of the board on a slight angle too after he eats the cookie and turns back to the board.
>>I’m glad for the times he had to bail – super great practice in experiencing how that feels and that he can learn to adjust that over time at a safe height. >>
Totally agree!!! It is good to teach them how to use their bodies and bail off if needed, before the board gets too high. He was lovely here!!!! it doesn’t need to go any higher right now, so you can add the angles.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Should I just keep wrapping the jump and working the different positions and getting more lateral?
Yes – she will still have a straight entry, but you can move away a tiny bit or walk past a step or two. Proceed slowly so she never tries to jump off or scare herself.
>> I’ve heard people put wings to help them find the angled entrances.
You can put wings out… but you won’t need to 🙂 These games will help produce that skill.
>>Regarding tossing the cheese -So I toss before she takes the jump? I thought I needed to wait for her to take it. That will definitely help her finding the jumps.
It is a fine line to get the middle ground of reward placement: We want to toss the cheese when she is looking straight and moving towards it, so it appears before she looks back at you… but we don’t want to be so early that the cheese is a lure or cue t take it.
Have fun!
TracyGood morning!
>>At home he’s VERY independent and able to find and stick 2o2o with all kinds of variations on my part – lateral distance, my position – ahead, behind, even with, speed, motion etc. So at home I can continue running ahead, blind cross, front cross, diverge, converge, keep a consistent lateral distance etc. and he finds his 2o2o and waits for release. That’s my goals for eventual trial performance.>
That is perfect! Does NADAC allow targets in training runs? In UKI, you can bring the target to refresh the behavior in the environment – that way the behavior is the same regardless of environment. It is very helpful for the dogs, otherwise they begin to watch for other cues in those different environments, such as handler decel or position.
>>He was trying, not being naughty, just couldn’t quite do it.
DEFINITELY not being naughty!!! There are so many variables that are changing at this point – so the behavior is harder to ‘find’. I use a target to help the dogs transition the behavior into the new environments (which could be the new location, or same location and longer courses, or more speed, or just that their bodies are still growing/changing or all of the above :)).
>>I am completely waffling on RDW. His stride is so long when he opens up I’m just not sure I want to put in the time and reps to train it.
There is a lot of peer pressure with RDWs LOL! But it is fine not to train one because it requires a ton of time, a TON of reps… and even then, it might not work out. My Contraband is doing a 2o2o right now because I don’t have the time to train it consistently and definitely don’t feel like doing a zillion reps of it. He is plenty fast with his 2o2o and I am confident I can achieve all of my competitive goals with a 2o2o with him. And, of note: I hear a lot of people saying that 2o2o is physically too hard on the dog’s shoulders, etc etc – but I disagree. Taught correctly, the dog is decelerating, shifting back and balanced. And, most of the behavior is taught away from the obstacle. Then, when it is transferred to the contact, it takes very few reps and most of those reps are at the end of the board. The injuries people are afraid of are simply not happening with a 2o2o (far fewer reps, less speed, lower impact).
> I need help with verbals. Now that we are walking and running real courses I keep seeing situations where I’m not sure what verbal to use.>>
Yep, agility has a lot of ‘grey’ areas.
>>For example – turns out of tunnels – I’ve got left/right which in my mind means find the next jump and turn that direction, so doesn’t feel quite right to use with a turn out of a tunnel. I want to be able to say it early enough before a jump that he can hear/understand/do and don’t want it to degrade to do this when I say it so I end up getting turns on the flat before jumps.>>
So the left or right would be a turn on the jump, or a turn on the tunnel exit? So then he doesn’t need to hear it til after he is exiting the tunnel. If it is for the tunnel exit, he would ned it about 6 feet before he enters.
>>Then there’s rear cross wraps and rear cross soft turns – do I use my same dig dig and check check that I use for wraps without a RC, do I use my same left/right soft turn even with the RC?>>
I name the dog’s behavior, regardless of my handling, in most of these situations – and definitely for wraps and soft turns. So if the dog needs to wrap to his left, I use my left wrap verbal no matter if it is a send or a rear cross. Same with the soft turn verbals – left or right per the dog’s behavior, regardless of my handling.
>>How about a 180 degree and push out turn out of a tunnel away from me at a distance – to another tunnel or a jump – like in a gamble or just when I’m behind and want to layer the tunnel he’s coming out of?>>
Draw me a picture (even if it is on the back of a mapkin haha) and I will be able to give you a better answer 🙂 If it won’t post here, email it to me at agilityuniversity@gmail.com
>>So many little variations of things I’m getting all in my head about them.>>
That is why I go with naming thedog’s behavior for most verbals: it keeps things more clear for me and the dog. There are a few verbals that are relative to my handling or position (like the ‘get out’ verbal) but most are relative to the dog’s behavior. One of these things we tackle in this class is which word belongs where and how to NOT lose our minds over it LOL!
Tracy
Hi!
She is also doing really well with the plank game! You can toss the treats sooner now, to let her know she can move faster: when she gets on. The board and is looking straight, you can toss it off the other end of the board so she runs across and off the board to it. You don’t have to move faster; you can let the cookie tosses do all the work in that regard 🙂 You can hang out somewhat in the middle of the board and let her go back and forth over it.
You can also move the plank out to the grass so you can add angles – instead of tossing straight, you can toss the treat back towards you, so when she turns around she will approach the plank on an angle and get herself sorted out to still get on it and run across it.Turning around on the plank looks really good! She was good at it when she was a little pup, so this was a good refresher.
Great job here on all of these! Let me know what you you think :)
TracyHi!
The lazy game also looks really strong. She might have thought it was silly at first, but now she likes it a lot 🙂 I really like that when she couldn’t find the treat she kept on going to a jump. Hooray!Definitely keep working this with the good cookies and very visible ones. I think if you toss sooner (when she is on the way to the jump and before she takes it or looks back at you), then you will see her look for her lines even more there.
Since the middle jump is by the wall, you can’t move it out but you can move jumps 1 and 3 further away to begin adding distance. And then start her even further back, so she leaves you more and more to drive into the pinwheel 🙂
Onwards to the plank video!
THi!
She is definitely confident on her mountain climbers! That board is high and she is scooting right up it! Yay! What reward were you using? She was definitely liking it! When you add the wing before it, be sure that her angle of entry is completely straight to the board. I know that eventually she will learn angled approaches, but for now we want her to just go straight. You might be able to use the tree as the wing to wrap to get the straight entry LOL!!!! The next step on this is to try to duplicate this game on a different teeter, if you have access to another teeter somewhere.
Onwards to the next video 🙂Hi!
Her back & forth looked strong here as on as she realized the board was a little higher 🙂 The turns were harder for her, and she helped by putting feet in the grass. That is fine for now! You can help her keep all four feet on the board by turning really slowly (like you did at 1:08 and 1:34). When you were fast, she put her feet on the ground. Yo can also help her learn to leave all 4 feet on the board by putting 2 planks side-by-side, which gives her a wider playing field to keep all of her feet on. She is still learning body awareness skills, so having the side-by-side planks will help you show her that all 4 feet staying on the planks will get her LOTS of cookies 🙂
The soccer is so cute!!!! She is like a cat, swatting that ball around 🙂 Adorable!
Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi again!
The angled entries are also going well – you can toss the treats on even more angle exits, which will help her find the board with more angle to the entry as well. You had some good angled tosses away from you, so now you can add in angled tosses towards you so she is moving back and forth on a curve. The best example of that toss towards you was at 1:23 – it rewarded her plank and then set her up for a nice line back to it on a slightly angled entry.
Onwards to the next one 🙂
T
Hi!
She did well with the back and forth game here. She looks confident with the plank! One suggestion is to add a ‘get it’ marker for the cookie toss, so she knows where to look for the reinforcement? When she gets on the plank, you can say get it and toss the other way – it is super easy to add for this game by saying the get it marker then tossing the treat, and it becomes very helpful for games in the future.
The next step for this game would be to slightly elevate the board, with a stable block or something under it, then repeat the game. I see on the 3rd video you had the board a little raised. You can probably raise it a bit more to be about 6 inches off the ground.
Onwards to video 2 below:
Hi there! I love obsessing on contact training stuff 🙂 So fun!
Looking at the finished version of the DW video first – I love that you can get him into the trial environment with stuff like hoops and low jumps, so he can confidently practice lots of things without worrying about full height jumping. He looked great!
For the contacts – he also seems confident on the DW and a-frame. Question – how did you originally teach him the 2o2o at the end? He is using your decel and body position as the cue here, and I would like to get him to do it completely without you in the picture so you can be anywhere (ahead, behind, sprinting past, moving away laterally, etc). So if you used a target, we can incorporate it as build up even more independence. And, he will be old enough for UKI standard classes soon – and you can bring a target into the ring for NFC runs to help transfer the behavior (as long as the target is not ON the contact, but if it is, I have ideas for that too LOL!)
Looking at the plank video – Oh wow, it is a plank paradise! I love it!!! He seems very confident on the hopping on and turning around. His best turns were when you were medium speed as you cued them, that is when he showed the best use of all four feet (like at :34). When you went really fast Iike at :07, he was not sing his back feet as well (pivoting on them and rather than stepping).
Running across the plank also looked super confident, and I think at this point the plank is to short so he is changing his striding (shortening or hopping). I like that he wants to lengthen his stride, so since you have several planks – can you do 2 long planks hooked together, with the first plank on the ground and the 2nd plank running up to a table. That way he can have more room to open up the striding. And you can start from the table and run him down the 2 planks to work on target independence too.
And yes, the running dog walk… I agree that you would have a different cue (I use “run”, I know, so creative hahaha). And I think it would be easy enough to teach him if it is something you wanted to work on at any point. Running contact work can become a bit all-consuming plus it requires a TON of reps on the full height obstacle, which is not something I really like to do! So it is also great to begin with a stop and work on all the other things and go back to the RDW if you wanted eventually.
Great job 🙂 Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! It was great seeing you this weekend! You and Dellin looked GREAT!!!!
And you did this first session BEFORE coffee? That’s crazy talk hahaha
She sent to the wing on the one step on the first reps (2 on each side) really nicely – she was a little wide coming around the wing because you were not really rotating (or you rotated late, lack of coffee and all haha) but when you rotated sooner she was perfectly tight on the wing.
Adding the tunnel before it went well too. She is sending a pretty long way away, which no real questions. Hooray! In fact, because you didn’t have to do much to get her to send, I bet you could do this while carrying your coffee too 🙂 Only one thing to change here – try not to do a ‘spin’ rotation as you send her to the tunnel, because it is a turn cue and there is no real turn on the tunnel exit here. At :21 you sent her in with a spin so she turned on exit (good girl) and then had to be sent back out to the wing. I don’t want her to learn to ignore spins if they are followed by sends away to a straight line 🙂 Compare here it line to :41, for example, when there was no spin – and she was nice and straight to the wing which makes the sending easier.
Thanks for the teeter info! You can change the mountain climber game to make it less bizarro for her since she gave it a giant paws down 🙂 You can lower the teeter (it looks lower here) and have it propped completely up (not moving yet) to a table, so she runs up to a table. Same concept, but a version that might be more happy-making for her (and she can run off for her frisbee).
With the teeter on 2 tables – She is asking a few questions, but that are easy to answer: you can put stuff under each end to soften the sound so she doesn’t hesitate to drive to the end. I put dog beds under each end to both soften the sound and also reduce the amount of tip (a 16” to 24” table is too big of a leap, as you mentioned).
One other thing is that you should always start on the end with the teeter touching the table – don’t let her pull down the high end to get on. She appears to be doing that because the frisbee is available, not because she is super sure that she likes it. It is not exactly coercion, but we want to make it easier and happier for the opting in. And pulling down the high end to get on changes her body use and weight shifts her to her front end while it is moving, which is going to feel a bit icky to her (it is a big unpredictable drop with no opportunity to balance before it) and slows her down as she interacts with the board. So only have her start on the end that is on a table to really build up the confidence.
Let me know what you think about the mountain climber with a lowered teeter! And great job on the one step send game. Hope you didn’t get too much heat today with those crazy temperatures!
Tracy
Hi Jill and Levy!
I think he is sorting out the lazy game very nicely 🙂 With his impressive speed, we will need him to be very independent and this helps a lot. I think the hardest part was finding the treats in the grass as you mentioned 🙂 I use big pieces of white cheese, which are easy to find.
If he misses a jump, just keep walking forward til he finds the next one – and if it is the last one, you can reset and start a new loop around 🙂 He only really had that question at the beginning, then he was pretty perfect. Then he got going faster and faster – so the next time you play, throw the treats sooner. Ideally, you throw the treat as he is looking at the jump and before he arrives at it or before he looks back at you. That is easy to say and hard to do because he is very quick – so you can start now to spread the jumps out. That will give you more room (especially moving the middle jump out) which gives you more time for tossing treats before he looks at you, and expands his commitment skills too. You can still use some motion while the jumps get further and further apart.
One step sends are going really well! His overall commitment looked fabulous – even as you were sorting out which cue he needed, he was still looking to commit to a line and that is so PERFECT 🙂
On that very first rep, you rolled your shoulders away from the wing too soon, before he really got moving, so he came with you. Compare that to the 2nd rep, where you ‘held’ the send (continued pointing to the wing) until he was well on his way, and he was perfect.
The rest of the session also went well. He is FAST!!!! You had some verbal kerfluffles like at :28 but you were correct to just keep going. On that left turn (and also one that same left turn at :38) – remember to use the left verbal before he enters the tunnel. He will probably need to hear you start saying the left verbal when he is about 6 feet in front of the tunnel entry.At :32 and :46, he had a similar question on the send like at the very beginning – in this case, I think it was more that you were pointing forward and looking forward, which slightly turns your shoulders to the tunnel (which is where he went :)) Compare to the next rep at :35 and :52 where you looked at him more, and he was perfect. So when you are sending from a standstill, use less pointing forward and more connection to his eyes as you step to the wing. That should help him find the wing without momentum.
My only other suggestion is to start running with a small toy in your hand – just scrunch it up – so you can reward quickly. That will keep him looking forward (because the reward will come sooner and he won’t see you reach into your pocket) and also, it will begin teaching him to ignore a toy in your hand and look at his lines 🙂
Great job here! I am very excited about how good he is looking!
Tracy
