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Yay! This is great!!!! Sounds like you set him up for success and he was super ❤️ how did today go?
T
Hi! If the opening is simple, you can release to the first obstacle when she speaks, that’s probably most reinforcing for the speak (she should not be in a stay when you ask for the speak, because most dogs move when they bark). Or, you can get the speak and ask for a short stay 🙂 keep me posted!
We keep going here til June 1st 🙂
TracyHi!
>>
LOL!!! This is highly unlikely to happen in any significant way at least. You play flyball now – you know there are some people that are really loud – well that is me in spades. It is very hard for me to seriously adjust my loudness, especially when running. I will try but thinking I won’t be terribly successful.>>
Well, in flyball I also hear variations in pitch and tone in order to help the dogs pick out the sound in all of the chaos. It takes some practice but it is TOTALLY worth it – otherwise if all the verbals are the same volume and style of delivery, the training of the verbals to fluency is much harder.
>>but now you have me wondering if I shouldn’t use a different word for that one since they do sound a lot alike. I use ‘push’ with Rayven because ‘bye’ puts Ray seriously over her arousal threshold.>>
I would say that riii and bye sound a lot a lot and you will get errors, so push is a better choice.
On the videos:
For the RCs, you can emphasize the RC diagonal more so show the line, which will help her sort it out. On the first video with the Rear crosses – she is watching your outside arm for the throw as the turn cue, and you are late getting onto the rear cross line – like at :28 where you are not even really started and she is turning away based on your throw (you are throwing *then* rear crossing) So getting right onto the diagonal and moving towards the center of the bar will help set the line a lot sooner (and don’t throw til after you see hre head turn). If she is struggling, you can place a toy out on the landing spot but you still will want to get right on the RC diagonal.When you switched sides, the RC diagonal at :58 was better but it is harder to see your line when you are on that side – you can see things more clearly when she is turning to her left tha you are getting it from the throw not the line of motion, so really emphasize the line of motion.
2nd video –
She did well with the backside wraps and read the difference between all the cues really well too! Yay! Yes, she was wide on the first rep because there was so much acceleration, you don’t need to run as fast out of it on these yet with a baby dog 🙂 You were a bit slower on the next backside and it helped! When you switched to the other side, she was also surprised by the speed when you accelerated on the first one and she slipped – she was more organized when you stayed in a smoother motion on the next rep.
Looking at the RCs – the RC at :37 was created by the toy throw like in the previous video, but better RC diagonal at 1:06!!!That RC diagonal is what made it hard to get the RCs after the tunnel:
On the video, it was hard to see the angle but I would say you were late on the diagonal pressure on all of them, except for being too early at :22 when you cut in before she got more than a stride past you and 1:15 where you pushed her off to the backside.
I think she was pushing off of pressure when you switched sides (probably guessing because there were too many failures) – also it might be that she thinks pressure is the RC cue, but we don’t want it from that far away – At 1:39 you did time the pressure better but it was not a RC diagonal, so you were doing more of a pull+ flick which can create confusion. So for the diagonals, lay a leash on the ground for you to mark your running line from the previous obstacle to the center of the bar to get on the diagonal sooner, so you are not using the throw to create it and not getting on the diagonal late. Your RC diagonal should be started as soon as she is out of the tunnel, but you need to run forward towards the center of the jump bump til she is just about at it, then finish the RC to prevent pushing her off the line.
Tunnel threadles:
>>as it occurred to me that my word ‘me’ is way too similar to ‘le’ >>
Ah yes, those do sound a lot alike.
She did really well with these too!!!
In terms of stylizing this cue so it completely independent: I know a lot of people do use that ‘check mark’ arm cue to send the dogs back out, but I recommend you do not cue her to get into the tunnel by flicking your arm back out – the verbal and arm *are* the cue to go to the tunnel entry, and if she waits for you to flick her out to it, then you have one more thing you have to time. Plus, if you are behind her or not that close, having to flick her back out becomes very challenging. So basically keep the verbal going and the arm in position (no flick back out) til she turns her head away and puts herself into the tunnel entry.If you see her waiting for you to flick her back out… don’t flick her back out 🙂 Just keep moving towards the tunnel entry you want, feet forward to it, repeating the verbal and holding your arm stationary. You were pulling away from the running line, which makes it harder for her to find it., so keep moving towards it.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I loved your lead out here! She was LOCKED onto you!!! And the run was great. She was fast and focused – note the dogs near the side of the ring, people, and even with the little bobble at the end: no worries, she came right back to focus. YAY!!! I think this will be a good one to play around with as you work through the steps to get the toy from your hand in the ring, to hidden in your pocket, to no toy at all 🙂
>>I’m still not sure whether she’s an all business dog getting to the line and then volume dial at the line. What can I do to test this?>>
Experiment with it in different situations and note her responses. How does she do when there are distractions and the toy is NOT visible? That will be the most telling situation. And you can pull tolls out of the toobox as needed: if she is normally “all business” but is distracted in the moment, then you can whip out the cartoon lead out and see how she does 🙂
>>The one thing that really gets her amped is when I ask her to speak. She can do this at home on the startline very well but I’m worried that if I ask her to do it at a trial (even if it’s just FEO) that she won’t do it. I think if I can get her to do this on the startline it will be huge! What should I do to progress to this? I don’t want this to become just another stressor at the startline so I want to make sure I’m not moving too quickly. >>
I would ask for it outside the ring, with the toy visible, and reward her. Then bring it into the ring with an FEO run, toy visible – and reward her (then ask her fo the sit for the lead out).
And if you ask for it and she says “I can’t” then that is FABULOUS information that she is struggling to get into the optimal state of arousal – so you can do other tricks and maybe the cartoon lead out in that moment. If she can’t bark, no worries, you don’t need to pressure her to do it – then it won’t become a stressor because it is not something you demand.Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>>> These runs looked really fast and engaged!!!
YES!! They felt easy and I didn’t have to think.>>Yay! They should feel fast, smooth and easy 🙂
>> Clearly he was a limbo champion in a past life
Funny thing is I have one fitness game where he’s supposed to go under a cavaletti pole. His first action is to put his front paws on it and he does not like going under it.>>Dogs are so funny!!! That cracks me up!
>> both of you entered the ring with a smile
One of my classmates just noticed his new name tag MR FUN as we started. He is one happy little dude wagging his tail for the unleashing.>>Perfect – we want him to be happy about it!!
>> If standard is first
Yes, it is then Gamblers. Your memory is fine. I didn’t realize the order is consistent.>>Hopefully it will not be a million degrees out! It was brutal here today!! Fingers crossed for a cold front!!
T
Hi! It sounds like it was a productive appointment!!!! Which meds did she recommend? I think she is going to do well with that – she is already doing GREAT with her agility skills!
T
Good morning!
>> Yes, the covered / open air training arena is familiar to her, and there was a barn hunt class going on behind us, I didn’t realize how much noise was getting picked up, LOL.
All good distractions!
>>Good to know that I can party “food from the hand” in Find My Face because that will lower the latency — every piece of cheese or meatball gets icky gross in the arena dirt – blech!>>
Yes – now that we are past the teaching phase of FMF, you can shift rewards to your hands (no need to use the pattern game framework now because the cue is your bad handling LOL!!! My dogs love my terrible handling hahahaha
>>I’d like to start adding more speed to this game – but I assume I don’t need to slam on the breaks for a disconnect? I’m thinking a clumsy blind cross or running off her line without cuing a pull would be good examples? Or maybe we don’t want to practice bad handling at speed intentionally (it happens often enough without)?
No need to add speed to it – it will happen organically as we try to handle courses and mess up LOL!! Ideally, we never mess up and never need this game, but that is simply not agility reality for anyone. You main goal should still be fast & fun sequences rather than setting up deliberate stops – but she will be prepared for mess ups. So in the moment of mess up: reward her then keep going.
>>What I think I’m hoping for is, if / when we get separated on course, she should either take an obstacle and come find me or just find me, and since IRL that happens at speed do we practice at speed, or does the money we put in the bank in these small set ups set the concept, and as long as we reward when it happens IRL (cause it will), that’s the better carry over?>>
Yes, the money in the bank concept followed by the reward in the moment is exactly what we are going for.
>>Thanks for the note on depletion, I will keep that in mind.
Depletion is challenging because we don’t see it, til something happens. So limiting sessions to never see depletion is ideal.
>>We have a private lesson tomorrow in a new place, with someone I’ve discussed our goals of “wind in our hair” front sides of jumps running. We may find that this private lesson approach replaces our group classes in that it’s a better fit for the course design you suggest we focus on. I’m mindful of over training but trying to find a good fit for all that we’ve been working on these last ~ 10 weeks. we’ll warm up with the various games as appropriate then see what we have.>>
It is a hard call – the privates are great for the fast and fun and front side giddy up side of things 🙂 but she needs exposure to other people and dogs in the group setting, so I don’t think you want to let that go entirely. The most perfect combo would be putting her in a lower level class (like pre-novice or anything where they emphasize ‘get on a line and stay on a line’) rather than backsides or threadles or anything that pulls her off lines. I put my dogs in lower level classes all the time, because I want them to passionately find the lines they will see in competition before I add in the fancy pants moves that they will almost never see (and I do a TON of UKI, and I will tell you that they still almost never see most of those moves except for a couple of types of classes that I don’t enter them in LOL!!!
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
When Mike is away, the Pony will play! (It is too early here for poetry hahaha). And the photo of the BCs on their backs is adorable 🙂The sessions looked good here!
The serps are looking really good – nice timing of departure from 1 at :20 and :25 and :32, and yes I liked your upper body position a lot at :32!!!
On the wrap-to-the-inside of 2, much calmer timing at :42 🙂 The timing is to let the dogs run across our feet, which is what you did here. He looked a you a little like “what the heck!” But his commitment and turn looked strong!
At :46 you added more lean over to jump 2 and more dog-side arm to indicate it – I don’t think you need that there for him, as he will commit with the position and verbal and ‘new arm (left arm in this case) which will require you to twist less. The other reasons to not use the cross arm here are that it will be easier to eventually explode away when you are not twisted as much, and also that cross arm can sometimes indicate a slicing rear cross (whiskey-ish turn) so you want to use the new arm to help him know it is a wrap not a RC.
Nice FC at :52! You will be able to leave earlier and earlier – partially because he will be more experienced, and partially because as he grows up and the jump height rises, he will need to make earlier commitment decisions to take off for a 20” bar, which makes you being able to leave even easier 🙂
Looks like the stays are going well too, and you are rewarding – the stays are a critical element of these skills for sure 🙂
The Get Out session went well too
You had good connection on the get out and a clear difference with the ‘don’t get out’ reps. He did really well!
And adding the FC at 1:43 and blind at 1:51 went well – he looked a little surprised on these but it might have been a timing thing (you can be earlier, starting it as soon as you see his head turn to the bar), plus lack of experience on the crosses after the get out.
When you moved the wing further away for 2:04 – FC was really great! Perfect! he was understanding that it was coming plus you had more time & room to start it. Really lovely!
The bar moment at 1:18 was not a bar drop – he pushed the wing to drive to the toy when you said ‘yes’. So try not to say yes LOL!!! It is a bad habit that we ALL do when we shouldn’t and it causes errors – yes as a reward marker (whether we trained it on purpose or not) causes too much handler focus. For the get out, you can mark the correct decisions with a toy toss on the line rather than driving to you.
The bar at 2:11 was caused by a late blind The side changed happened as he was in the air so he scrambled to adjust and couldn’t get it done. You can use a reset cookie there if you don’t want to give him the toy – presenting the toy and then pulling it away can cause frustration, so you can wait to mark and present til you see if the bar stays up and you can also use a different value of reinforcement if it falls. I use a reset cookie as a “that was my fault, sorry, thanks for trying hard and not biting me” 🙂
In general, I will only withhold reinforcement for a dropped bar with a baby dog if I can mark the exact moment I saw him make the decision to drop his feet on it or touch it (really hard to do). When adding in new moves that require timing from us and adjustments from the pup, you can also lock in the bar at first so you two can work it out without potentially hitting the bar.Note the massive difference in timing at 2:17, I liked this timing! He was pretty good there too, lost confidence with the commitment at the last minute: also worthy of a reset cookie. To build more commitment on these especially as you add in the crosses, you can throw the reward to the landing side to balance the value rather than have him come to you for the reward. On the last rep, you waited til he landed which set him up for success! Yay!
To help build the independence on the skill with the crosses here, you can add the thrown reinforcement and also, walk through the exit of the crosses. Motion is the devil LOL!! So when adding the early timing and crosses, you can dial back the motion distraction – then when he is very successful, you can dial the motion back up to add in running 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
It was great seeing you and the girls and the whole NY crew last weekend! I have missed you all!!!! And all handlers and dogs looked great 🙂Lots of good work here, with 2 of the most challenging games!
At the beginning with the tunnel threadle game –
At :13 when she didn’t go to the wing and ended up in the threadle tunnel entry – I would have rewarded her there, she was reading your motion and you hadn’t really stepped to the wing. That might be why she went to the straight ahead tunnel entry at :19 and :31 (“the other side didn’t get rewarded, must be this side”). You got her doing it nicely after that!She did well on the tunnel threadles when rotated your feet towards her as she wrapped the wing. In the next session, try to fade that out by moving slowly but with your feet facing forward. Rotating feet will work if you are ahead of her at the right time… but we don’t want the foot rotation to be the cue because you won’t always be ahead of her 🙂 She is speedy!!! So you want to be able to handle it from behind too 🙂
:58 is a good example of “don’t say yes” (or any yes variation) as a marker because it pulls the dogs off lines LOL!! Ask Tina how she also has a good demo of that from yesterday’s video LOL!
Adding figure 8s went well! She is definitely listening to the different cues really well, so now we can fade out the foot rotation.
Backside proofing:
When she is turning to her left at the beginning, at 1:48 – to help her find the bar as a default you can drop the reward in on landing side the instant she arrives at the entry wing rather than waiting to see if she will take the jump.You got her to come in with rotation on the next reps but for the eventual serps and German turns where you don’t rotate, the early toy drops without foot rotation will really help. You had really good feet forward serps at 3:50 and 4:11! This is what I mean about not rotating and she did well (right turns are easier for her). Good timing of the toy drop at 4:19 with countermotion.
I think that she is stronger turning to her right on both of these games (we can really see it here at the end of the backside video – so you can start the sessions with the ‘easier’ side (turning to her right) then change to the left turns.And for the left turns, the earlier reward will really help on the backsides.
One more thing for the next backside session: You can now fade the extreme connection a bit, less dog-side arm back so you are not rotating your lower body at all, do the arm-back and connection only enough that your feet keep moving forward with speed (the theme is feet forward here :)) And add more motion like at 2:54 – she smoked you and there was not enough motion to support the backside. When you were ahead of her or parallel to her, she was great 🙂 For now, you want to set the line from ahead of her and in motion.
Great job here! Let me know what you think and see ya in MaxPup 3!!!
TracyHi! You can email agilityuniversity@gmail.com and we will get you set up 🙂
Thanks!
TracyI totally understand the feeling of panic and disappointment!
Those 3 are truly top notch instructors- tell them about your concerns and set your running order to be successful!Hi!
>>was it because of the in between moments that set us down a wrong road?
Nope.
>>Over stimulation from tunnels?
Nope.
>>Or my feet and arms just got out of line ?
Yep. LOL!
AND NO DUNKIN FOR YOU FOR SAYING YES hahaha (thank you Chata for making my point :))
OK back to the threadles – I think on the successful ones at :12 and :28, you were clearer in terms of moving towards it and being closer. On the ones where she was confused – at 1:12 and 1:40 you were too far from it and at 1:49, you were a bit far and not moving. So, stay close (less than an arm’s length) and move towards the tunnel entry.
She had two other questions:
At :50 on your tunnel cue – you were doing a Dancing With The Stars move there, with your arms out and a backwards step move so she was like WTF and didn’t take the tunnel? HA! She took it when you moved towards the tunnel, and you don’t need your arms back like that, you can actually use your arm to swoosh her into it a little 🙂At 2:06 and 2:17 – you threadle arm was way out away from your body and to be honest, it looked like a hand touch cue. A threadle cue is more traditional with a bent elbow and held across your chest, going towards the dog so there is a slight upper body rotation. The hand touch cue might be what she was thinking it was… plus there was a little frustration happening so you go offers of hand touch/tooth hugs.
So, I think she was a good girl here and not over-aroused and your in-between moments looked great… you can clarify the mechanics of your line and motion and arm, and she will nail it! Let me know what you think 🙂
Tracy
really your arm will be out there for a tunnel threadle (2:06 and 2:17) – looked like a hand touch cueHi!
>>Ok thanks, the set point I had 12″, I was going to move to 14″.
Sounds good!
>> Do you want me up the spacing on the set point and accordion (the 1st 2 jumps)to 6′?
Yes, and if she has ay questions, you can shorten it a bit.
> I’ll raise the set point and keep moving out the accordion. On the accordion, what distance out to I go to? Would I want to mix up the distances later?
Eventually you would want jump 3 to end up at 24 feet or so. And yes, you can mix up distances too!
>>And I’ll introduce the double lowered like you suggested. Can I do the triple?
The double is useful in the set point, but the triple is too big for the set point. I save the triple for the accordion grid – when jump 3 gets to be 18 feet, you can make the 3rd jump a double. When jump 3 gets to be 21 feet or so, you can sometimes introduce the triple. Start them both low and then when the 3rd jump is at 24 feet, you can work the up to full height.
Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
Tracy
