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HA! I look forward to seeing him run on the big stage someday and cheering for RONY PONY!!!!!!
>>Curious how you think the adult was similar to Ronan. He is handsome too?
Definitely handsome! The adult BC is a young male who is similar in size, build, speed and focus. The difference was that he was physically mature when we started it but also he had a history of hitting bars on difficult slices, especially backside slices. This grid made a big difference in teaching him how to handle those lines. I have seen a lot of aids and cones and gates to try to teach the backside slice jumping but those only seem to work when they are in place at the jump and are incredibly difficult to fade. What has really helped is this grid and also conditioning 🙂
T
Good morning!
She is doing well with this game and I agree – that send skill will be useful on course!She had a harder time when you were on the takeoff side of jump 1 – it is a harder send for sure because she has to send past you. 3 ideas for you:
You can bring the wing and jump closer, so you are not quite as far away.
And, since her stay looks really good, you can step forward with your arm and leg and *then* say your release word.
I think she is hearing the release first and making the decision to come to you before the she sees the movement of the send arm & leg.You can also help her by giving her a focal point on the landing side of the jump, like tucking a bowl into the landing side wing, which will help her drive to the jump better (then you can toss the reward into the ball).
She was terrific when you were on the landing side of jump 1 ! No problem! So you can keep playing the handling games on that side too! She looked fabulous on those 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>Ahh, that makes sense. So it will likely be a bit of time before I figure that out for her.>>
Yes, and it will probably shift back and forth early in her career. For now, I like to name and support as much as possible with verbals.
Didn’t see rear crosses mentioned in the description for this one but will do. >>When you are ready, it is here:
On the video:
>>Only ended up doing seq 1 (turn) and 2 (straight) in each direction as the turns were harder to get.>>
I think what was happening on the first reps to the left and after 1:32 to the right when she was going straight was that the handling, even when you were walking, did not support the verbal, so she went with the motion.
Starting her on the angle on the first wing makes it harder to also show handling to get the turns on the tunnel exit -the last thing she was was you accelerating forward – for now, since this is not a proofing game, verbals and handling should match. She was seeing you turn but it was really late, after the tunnel or even after she was a few strides out of it like at :47.When you accelerated she did the go but when you were behind or decelerated, she came out straight and asked questions, so it is important to match the handling with the verbals, so you can run for both cues rather than run on one and walk on the other (we don’t want her to think that all accelerations are GO, because they are not :))
So send her around to the outside of the start wing for a post turn to the tunnel, which sets an easier line of entry to the tunnel – and also gives you more time to handle. At the same timing as you gave the left or right verbals (she was 2 meters in front of the tunnel on both), you should also be turning your body and heading towards the wing you want, letting her see the physical cue to match & support the verbal. And then on the go reps, you can show her straight line handling rather than the turn away. I think that will make a world of difference on her exits!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>So, if I only move the 3rd jump one foot is the goal for her to always bounce that?
Yes and no – on the easier distances, yes, to get her organizing the bounce more by slicing the behavior more thinly. At some point she will need to put in a stride, but the smaller slices of behavior will allow her to put in a smaller balanced stride that we then extend. We don’t want the big strides til we have the balance.
>> I agree that she’s not getting her rear underneath her before taking off which leads to a lot of split back feet taking off.>>
Yes, but that is normal and part of the maturity process. As she physically matures, her strength will balance out and she will ‘use’ her body in a more balanced way. She is working on it already 🙂 All of my young dogs are pretty physically immature at Sprite’s age and then 6 months to a year later, there is a world of difference.
>>So, you are suggesting grids 3 days a week but to use set point once, then bounce grid and then accordion grid? Or, should I just do set point and accordion until she gets her rear under her more? Do you want the jump bump back for the set point or stay with 8 in bars?>>
Low bar grids are OK 3 times a week in short sessions at her age, but you don’t have to (there are a lot of other things to do in sport and life :)). So if you only get once a week to do a grid, choose the set point for now. Twice a week? A set point and a balance grid. And if the time gods and weather gods all align and you have the time and weather to do 3 times a week? You can rotate in the accordion grid. But, no pressure to do all three – the next month can be all about the set point and balance grids.
>>Backing onto the wobble board is back into 4 on?>>
Yes – back feet for sure, and all 4 would be great. I can also dig up the list of core and hind end strength games I did with Hot Sauce in 2020 and 2021 as we were pre-rehabbing and re-habbing her patella surgery!
Tracy
Hi! I love that you got so many people to help be ring crew!
This was hard for him!!!! You can see him struggling with the distraction – either by visiting or checking out. The sniffing by the fence when he couldn’t go into the tunnel (at the beginning) was probably a reflection of how hard it was.
With that in mind…reward him a whole lot more in that situation where you have a ton of distractions around. For example, on the 2nd rep: when he was able to do the opening and get to the a-frame, past the camera person who was so distracting earlier – that is a great time to reward him. It was hard and he nailed! When you sat him then asked him to go past more distractions, he couldn’t do it and checked out. People are his Krpytonite 🙂 So breaking it down into sections and rewarding each time he chooses to go past the distracting person will really help build up his focus, then you can stretch it out into longer and longer courses 🙂>>I would like to figure out how i can get him back when he “zones out” sniffing that is really hard to compete with….
The sniffing mainly happened after he did something really difficult like ignoring the Kryptonite person then didn’t get rewarded. So the way to get him back is to reward him a lot more for now, so he doesn’t leave. The leaving to sniff was a sign of stress because the challenge was so hard and the rate of reinforcement was too low. Lots and lots of rewards will fix that, then we can stretch it out.
>>the hardest part for me was he won’t let go without a cookie so something to work on for if he decides to tug at a trial.
You can bring 2 toys in the ring – I often have a tug and a ball – so I can lure the out by showing the ball, for example, to speed up transitions in the NFC runs.
>>The second part with no people was after a long sleep my older dog Lily is back doing Master/Exc JWW when she feels like it so i had her run some weaves in between.>>
He has a ton of great agility skills, as we see in this run at the end… no distractions, perfect course work! Yay! So the rewards can come for ignoring distractions on course, rather than running full courses. I think that will make a huge difference for him.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
This is a hard grid! She is really working it!
Just some general striding notes, followed by ideas for next steps:
Rep 1: 6 foot distances: She did 2 bounces but not comfy, she was having a little trouble controlling her hind endRep 2: 6 and 9 feet: The firs bounce was a really good bounce! The 9 foot distance was HARD for her – it was somewhere between a bounce and a one stride, kind of a double tap as she was trying to sort out her footwork.
Rep 3 – 6 feet then 12 feet: First bounce was good, not as good as previous rep but still good. The 1 stride was forward on her shoulders, so her butt ended up higher than her shoulders.
rep 4: 6 and 9 feet – good bounce to start and then she did a long bounce – different than what she did on rep 2, trying to sort it out.
rep 5 6 and 6 – good bounce in the first distance, then she had too much weight shift forward so her butt was higher than her shoulders.
So – she is shifting forward a lot and not sitting back into her hind end. This is very normal with young dogs who are discovering the joy of the “Go Fasts!” LOL!!! It is good to see her wanting to go fast so we can now encourage her to stabilize her core and sit into her rear.
My suggestion for that is to prioritize the set point and the ladder grid, along with core exercises and backing up onto unstable surfaces like a wobble board (which is both a hind end awareness gam and a core stabilizer). You can rotate the set point into training once a week, and the other stuff can be 2 or 3 times a week (separate days). The ladder grid can be visited once a week (3 jumps, bounce distance apart). And once a week, the accordion grid. And for the accordion grid, we can keep the 6 foot bounce distance to start and gradually get her reading it by going to 7 feet, then 8 feet then 9 feet for the distance to jump 3 (rather than move it away in 3 foot intervals).
>>. I’d like her to lengthen her stride while in extension, but not sure how to get that just yet.
That will happen when the 3rd jump in the accordion goes to 15 feet, 18feet, 21 feet. That will help her extend the one-stride and decide when to add 2-strides. But she is young so no need for that til she sits into her rear a bit more – as soon as she looks more balanced at 9 and 12 feet, we can move jump 3 out again.
The only other detail is to have the toy target further away when it is stationary, so she can land and take a full extension stride or two before getting to the toy (helps her organize her hind end). We can also look at the dragging toy, as the moving focal point might help her organize better than the stationary focal point.
Great job! Let me know what you think! Have fun with the starfish!
Tracy
Hi!
I think he is doing really well here – the first 6 passes all looked good (you were a little too close to the last jump from what I could see especially on #6, so you can be about 10 feet from the last jump).
Bearing in mind how challenging it is – he made it look pretty easy on the more obvious line, but then you saw how hard it was when you tightened it. The tighter line plus the fatigue from being a bunch of reps into the session caused him to add strides – we prefer he ‘bounce’ like he did when it was a little more open, so for now keep it open. Then, over time, you and inch it straighter – probably takes a few weeks, but no rush because he is so young. Last summer in the CAMP class, we had an adult BC who is similar to Ronan do the entire progression from 3 open jumps to 5 jumps at full height and tight line – it took the adult dog about 10 weeks to get it. So since Rony Pony is still young, I figure it will take you 6 months or so to get it straight and the bars taller. But that side-to-side bounce he is doing here is FABULOUS and so much more coordinated than most dogs his age 🙂 YAY!!! So keeping it open for now is right on track and actually ahead of schedule.Great job!
TracyHi!
Yes, there is a lot of running on this one, it starts to feel like a course even though it is only a tunnel and some wings 🙂
>> My homework is just getting more speed. She shows some. She loves the turn and burn.
In typical Tali fashion, she picked up speed as she got more comfortable with the setup. That is fine, because I rather that the dog thinks about something new and THEN goes fast, rather than flings herself into things and thinks later on LOL! Keep throwing the rewards and staying connected, and you will continue to see more and more speed! I liked what she was doing here!
>>. I tried to get her excited and instead of my normal dog food, I got cheese puffs out.
Ah yes! Because she is working for food which can be calming to dogs, don’t use only dog food to train 🙂 Use crazy high value stinky delicious stuff (mixed in with the dog food to pick up the good smells) so she is insane for it 🙂
>> But I need to get her less clingy and driving to the jumps. I had to really push out to the wings. I left one blooper. They were like that that. I feel I’m looking at her. She did good and did the exercises but I definitely need more confidence. The race tracks, she doesn’t like>>
There were lots of really great moments and I definitely see a few things that will help:
She really does well with the tandem turns!!! On the 1st 2 reps you did as a lap turn where you hustled to face her, and they went well! You can also do those as tandem turns, so you don’t have to rotate towards her and can keep moving forward. :26 was a tandem turn – I think she needs a different hand cue because you were using a ‘go’ arm and she didn’t turn til after you cut in behind her. I like using 2 hands for tandem turns, so the dogs can see it coming (the hands turns them away) before we cut in behind them.Lap turns through the race track like at 1:46 look good, she really likes those!!!
I think the tandem or lap turn will be good moves for the starfish here for speed – You did a BC on the tunnel exit there at :59 and1:17 but she had to wait for you and slowed down. To keep her speed going, you can send her to the tunnel entry from further away to get the blind so sh ecan keep moving, or do a tandem to keep hr moving 🙂
About those left turns and her being a bit sticky:
she definitely goes faster and is more independent when you have your arms down and you run run run, rather than point. You can see it on the ‘race track’ left and right turns when your arms are down and you are running (like at :56, 1:11 and 2:15 ) versus when your arm is up and pointing forward like at 1:03 (she ended up thinking you wanted a blind).Also, she is a righty 🙂 So on those left turns, keep your hands down and back, to let her see big connection. At 2:25 and 2:48, connection was not as clear so she was trying to default to the easier side (right turns).
You don’t need to push too much with motion, like at 2:06 where you pushed into her and pushed her off the wing. I think keeping connection and running near her will help a lot, and reward her a ton for left turns to help make them really valuable because they are harder. The connection might feel more ‘sticky’ and harder to convince her of right now, but that is young-dog-stuff that will go away as she gets more experienced.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Oh lord this flowsheet is causing way more inner turmoil than I expected. Part of the reason I’ve been so hesitant to do anything outside of the yard is because Carrie’s yard is so hard for us and forever I’ve felt like if I can’t get it there, I shouldn’t ask for it anywhere else. While rationally I understand that the pool is our biggest challenge, it makes me very insecure in moving forward.>>
Or, to look at it differently, Carrie’s yard has the biggest possible distraction and the biggest history of struggle with that. In fact, other locaitons might be FAR easier.
>>You pointed out missing jumps and the run around the table. Missing jumps consistently happens in practice also. I’m hoping we can work this in camp some… but we also don’t have opportunities to run full courses unless its a trial or seminar. Plus Carrie will be out this summer if Roulez gets pregnant so I’ll be course building alone.>>
One thing to consider is entering some USDAA or UKI at home trials, maybe the 60×40 ring for jumpers etc – even if you don’t record the runs, you will get courses to work and teach him to find lines, which canthen be built up to remote reinforcemen too. CB and Elektra got a lot better at finding lines when I starting doing the At Home trials. I don’t always record the runs, but I do train on them when I can.
>> Very rarely do I practice the table. His teeter really hasn’t been worked either because I’ve been working this stuff.>>
The stages of FEO can also be individualized for obstacles – so if an obstacle hasn’t been worked on, don’t ask for it at trials. Otherwise there will be errors and rehearsals in the trial ring that can be harder to overcome.
>>Now I just feel really conflicted and don’t know where to begin. I felt like his ring time looked the same if not better than Carrie’s yard but also better than most places we’ve been, but I also don’t want to miss any steps for him.>>
I think the top priority is then to get him to find the lines in training on simple wide open courses – like setting up an Open JWW course, no fancy backsides or threadles. Then when he can do that (finding lines of jumps and tunnels), that skill can go back into trials and both of you will be in a better mental state to run those courses.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>OK, I haven’t been doing this so will start this routine at my next trial which is the first weekend of June.Perfect! It should help him be more prepared for the environment at trials.
>>Oh, my I forgot all about that lead out. I will for sure do it next time.
I think he will like it – just do a short lead out so he doesn’t break the stay.
>>Ok, I was so excited that he was doing the course I forgot to reward him. I will try very hard to reward more when he is doing good.
That is the hardest thing, right? Rewarding when things ar egoing well is so hard but so important!
>> (no classes here)
Do you have a training group, or friends who can help add trial-like distractions?
>>So, for the trial first weekend in June, I should pull him from all runs that aren’t FEO. (FAST and T2B) (need to pull regular runs)>
I would definitely consider this, especially for the first runs of the weekend.
>>Then there is a local trial that I could enter him in FEO only the second weekend in June. (Not entered yet)>>
>>The third weekend is a local NADAC where he can run everything FEO. (I’m Trial Sec)>>
>>The fourth weekend UKI at Blue Springs all classes FEO (not entered yet)>>This is all perfect! And in the NADAC and UKI runs, you might be moving into the ‘real’ runs, which is great for venues like NADAC and UKI where there are lots of runs available each day 🙂
>>Did I miss commenting on anything else to work on? Thanks for all your feedback. Do you offer private feedback after the June 1 deadline that I could buy?>>
I think the Find My Face game will help him know where to look on course even if there is a disconnection. And the cartoon leadouts should be a fun game to add as well 🙂 In June, we start the CAMP class so that can be a place to keep building skills and getting feedback! Keep me posted!
TracyAh! Being in season would explain things, plus add in a little upset belly. I am sure that contributed GREATLY to her day on Saturday. Yay!
T
Hi!
>>Any suggestions other than looking at her to keep her path out and not coming into me. I mean when we’re going to the jump and I’m trying to stay over,she comes into me and then back out around the wing. Lateral running distance….that I’ll need.Two other things you can try –
take the bar out, and do it on just one wing – see if she can stay parallel to the outside of the wing (and still drop the reward as if there was a bar there as you move away :))
You can add lots of lateral distance on just the wing! The bar has a LOT of value, so taking it out for a bit will refresh the value of the parallel path behavior. You can also try using the opposite arm but I don’t think you will need it in the long run.Then when you add the bar back, rotate the jump 90 degrees so it is perpendicular to where it is now – so it is more of a 180 than a backside. All 3 wings will be in a line. Then you can gradually inch it back over to the backside position over the course of a few sessions, while still maintaining the understanding. Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
Have fun!
TracyHi! He is doing SO MUCH BETTER! The final stages are about getting into the harder environments likes classes, seminars, trials and working the games at the line with reinforcement (and 2 leashes so he can’t speed away :)) I put together some flow charts, I will go through them in the chat in about 90 minutes and then they will be posted 🙂
Hi!
>>I guess I didn’t really feel like I was blowing passed the steps because he’s done a good bit of seminars, run feo and ACT courses but my toys weren’t exactly hidden.>>
Bingo – lots of experience in Step 1, maybe a little in Step 2, in training environments. But very little experience in Step 1 in trials, and no experience in Step 2 and 3 – moving straight to step 4.
>>How will I know when to transition because lord knows I can stay at one step forever?
You will know when the behavior you get in the ring matches the behavior you get (and are happy with) at home. He enters with ring with engagement and can respond quickly to line up cues? Holds his stay? Finds the jumps on his line? Hits contacts and weaves? And so on – the trial runs should look pretty much like home training runs before you go to the next step.
>>I didn’t feel like I was having signs of stress in my runs but I don’t want to create stress either or shut him down.>>
Rather than discuss it as “stress”, which is an emotionally charged term and can be applied in weird ways (there is stress is everything, some of it is good stress!): think of it as arousal, latency, and accuracy. His arousal is lower (or higher, depending on the context, but not easily optimized), he is not as fast to respond to cues, and his accuracy wanes: looking around, missing jumps on the line, running past the table, missing contacts, etc. So while it might not match the classic signs of stress (yawns, sniffing, avoidance, etc) the behaviors we see in the ring match behaviors that stress can bring on, and the behaviors in the ring don’t match what we see at home. In the days before training in the ring, we would have to just deal with it and hope for the best (didn’t work out all that well!) but nowadays we can sit at each level of the training runs til the dog is fully confident and acting the same (or better!) than what you get in ‘home’ training 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense!
Tracy
