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Hi!
I totally saw it and answered it… in my mind. Oops! Here ya go, sorry for the delay!>>Toy selection has been a challenge for us for sure. I chose the frizz because it was a new location and we’d be there for a bit. That being said, he really likes his bumpers too. I need to try bumper versus frizz on the string.>>
Yes – I think we are at the stage where we narrow the reinforcement choices to things that can be conveniently used on the road and in a trial setting: bumper, friz biting or on a string, food, tug leash, etc.
>> I could tell he wanted to play, because he kept picking the frizz up- idk if it was because there was food too or just because we had been going on for a bit.
I think he wanted the long throws. He loves those – but so hard to use in a trial setting.
>> I did let him take a quick nap between our second to last and last sessions- he was out cold in the car.
Poor tired dude! And there is some science now that says that sleeping is important to learning, so I am glad he had a sleep!
>>Remote reinforcement started off well, he was great on that first rep with the frisbee behind him! And I think the first rep is the most important. Yay! So now add in things like walking with you and tricks with you, rather than wing wraps – think of it as moving from the entry gate to the start line and all you have is yourself
>>Should I start incorporating leash play into this also?
Yes, great idea. You should start rehearsing the scenarios you would use outside the ring – partially, we are developing a routine, but also we are developing tools so you don’t get locked into a routine and can switch gears at any moment. So yes, use the leash play in the remote reinforcement because you will need the leash as part of it and I think he likes it as a reinforcemen too!!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Our next USDAA will be late June. I will see if Scott Lovelis will let me throw the ball in the ring.Fingers crossed!
>>When to reward will be the trick with her. Thoughts?
Depending on the course, a few obstacles in, with a thrown ball? Then get her back with another thrown ball (bring 2 with you :)) and keep going 🙂
>> I sent you video from the weekend, just because I wanted to share and see if you think she is doing better.
I will go find it! Is it in the email?
>> I don’t want to inadvertently reward the down attitude, but would love to make the experience more rewarding up front for her.>>
I think the appearance of the down attitude is not a choice, but more of a reflexive response to the environment – so we can’t really reward (or punish) a reflex. Think of i tmore as pairing: pairing the environment at the start of the course with the ball, so the environment becomes more exciting because exciting things happen there 🙂 That will change the reflexive response, which will appear outwardly as being more ‘up’.
>> I know you say to slice thin and reward approximation, but I am just not sure what I am rewarding depending on when the ball comes out. 3-5 obstacles and exiting to the reward has not helped in the past, but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t now.>>
I don’t love exiting to the reward if we can use the reward right in the ring – reward in the ring is best for pairing 🙂 About exactly when? I like to reward the decision to move off the line, so I reward that early and often if the dogs feel a little suppressed on the start line.
>> If I am understanding what you have been teaching us, I think the ring entry/start line has inadvertantly become a stressor for her and I now have her programmed to respond in a negative way both physiologically and behaviorally.>>
Pretty much! I don’t think you have programmed it, necessarily, it is more that it is a reflection of how she feels in certain environments.
>> My previous attempts to change her mental state may have only added stress as they were all about performing tricks.
Right! Because we were asking her to do operant things while we needed to handle the underlying reflexive/Pavlovian responses first. It is dogs like Tango who have taught us this lesson, and that the underlying ‘feeling’ needs to be tackled before we can go for the operant stuff like tricks.
>>The more relaxed offering of behavior mixed with the concentrated but very limited tricks of barking (which she will also offer) and a few spins and hand touches may be helping her because they are helping me relax too. 😉>>
yes – and less pressure too! And the pattern games help a lot because they allow her to assess the environment while also pairing the environment with good things 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I bet things are nuts with the end of the school year! No worries, these videos all look good 🙂
Totally looked like she is taking a nice breath here on the first video! Yay! Have you tried putting this game into any pre-run routines? It definitely calms her 🙂
FMF: I am glad she also loves the GMAB game!
She did well with you walking and disconnecting, no problem at all.>>I’m wondering though how I go to calmly walking to the next level of adding obstacles! As I’m typing this I’m starting to think maybe I added to many obstacles! I think she needs her cake sliced super super thin on this and lots of pieces😂😂. Help lol!! Help me not go from trot to racetrack>>
To get her to take the jumps even if you disconnect, I think you need to be moving more. At 1:32, for example, you were stopped and too far from the jump so it was fine that she didn’t take it. Keep acting lost 🙂 But also keep moving towards an obstacle and reward her for taking it -but bear in mind that it is OK if she doesn’t because we are not actually giving her cues 🙂
>>Judys- she was a rockstar! Her very first seminar, what a girl! It was the perfect length! She did so fabulous! No Issues coming into the environment, which we can sometimes have! She took food no issues and her toy drive was AWESOME!
This is awesome news! She did really well in the new facility, new footing, different people. Be sure to let her get settled into the stay before you lead out – you were kind of doing the lead out and release and stay all at the same time so she had some questions. But everything else looked great – I LOVE that the instructor was emphasizing fast lines and a lot of go go gooooo! Perfect for young dogs!
>> So of course I asked her to sit and she was like”WHAT THE HELL!!! WOMAN THAT IS NOT HOW WE DO THINGS! HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND!!!”>>
Well, Promise is certainly not going to keep her opinions to herself hahahahaha She got you back on the right track LOL!
>>In other news, my training club has lost their field😭. It’s officially shut down now. I am holding my class at my house for my students. For new environments, I’m going to have to beg friends and I may not have the weekly exposure I had before 😞 and that she desperately needs >>
What an absolute bummer 🙁 Maybe you can give yourself a spot in your class? I have done that in the past and my students liked it – they could give me feedback, they could be ring crew, we had many laughs and the puppy got good training 🙂
Great job! When is her next trial or seminar?
Tracy
Hi! She is figuring it out nicely and your cues were mostly correct 🙂 She was definitely figuring out that she needed to listen for the verbals because you might not be sending her straight to the tunnel ahead!
I think was was blowing your brain a little was when to use the tunnel threadle cue versus when to use the regular tunnel cue – that was making you think hard and delaying the other verbals.So when she needs to put herself between you and the tunnel and go to the other side, you can use your tunnel threadle noise. And when she stays on the outside line and goes right into the tunnel, that is your regular tunnel word 🙂 At 1:13 and 1:20, she was between you can the tunnel and did the threadle, so that is where you can use the threadle noise instead of the tunnel word.
>>I could not think what to say when she came out of the tunnel to go to a threadle after a tunnel cue. >>
Do you mean to tell her to go into the tunnel on the threadle cue? the threadle noise is all she needs there (plus motion). Or you mean for the reward? Let me know what you mean and we will sort it out 🙂
Nice work!Tracy
Hi!
I think that most of this is going super well, she was almost 100% in terms of getting to the backside – and that is where the handling and verbal are important. The only front side error was a combo of not enough connection and too much motion away from the backside line. So keep doing what you were doing to get her to the backside.What we need to focus on is what happens after she gets to the backside, in terms of creating the default behavior of taking the jump. She is waiting on a handling cue and looking at your hands and not at the bar – and the reward timing and placement is late (which is why she is waiting and looking at your hands).
That is why her success rate on taking the bar was lower, as compared to finding the right line to the backside.
So two things will help her look at the bar and not at you:
– Angle the backside jump so the exit wing is pulled forward, making the bat visible on her line as she gets to the entry wing.
– Reward sooner and never from your hand – as soon as she is just about arriving to the backside entry wing, drop the reward in near that same wing. The placement exaggerates her turn there, as you will probably be moving across the bar to the exit wing and the placement turns her towards the entry wing a little. But it gets her looking at the bar immediately as she gets around the entry wing and takes her eyes off you.You can keep moving and handling after the toy drops, so she ignores the handling for the heartbeat to find the bar. This includes when you are doing the countermotion exits – you can still be running forward, but she should get the reward on landing side regardless of where you are and not from your hand.
Those little tweaks should solidify her understanding, which makes everything else easier for handling 🙂
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Super nice session here, I think all reps at all distances looked great 🙂 and nice stays too!!
I think eventually he will bounce that 10.5 distance but I liked his choices here, especially the bounce at 7.5 on rep 2 and that he did it again perfectly on rep 4 🙂 Rep 4 is often ugly for dogs but he was lovely!So, keeping 4.5 feet as the compression disgrace between 1 and 2 for now… when you revisit it, the distances for reps 2 and 4 can be 8 feet next time (leaving rep 3 as 10.5 feet). Then if he is happy at 8 feet (bouncing) then rep 3 can go to 12 feet. Then on the next sessions, reps 2 and 4 can go to 9 feet (or 8.5 if he wants to one-stride at 9 feet). And then rep 3 can go to 15 feet, which will eventually end up being a big extended one stride distance.
I’d revisit these once a week, tops, for now. You’ll see things come together more after 18 months, when his chest has dropped and he has muscled up 🙂 so think of these as conceptual but not the finished product 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
On the lap and tandem turn video:
I have no complaints about your timing or mechanics 🙂 we want to have the dog be very close especially on the lap turns. I think she was just feeling goooood and needed to see that these were collection cues 🙂And I love that you used the front crosses to by yourself time to set up the turn aways. LOL! Brilliant!
Lap turns:
The first part with just one wing was really good in terms of timing, she was figuring out that she had to turn away, so she was not zippy with the turns and was optimistically looking for the cookies 🙂 but she got better and better as the session went along, ending up really nice and tight!One idea to help her set up the tight lap turn – it was hard to see where you were looking but look at your magic cookie hand as you draw her in and turn her away – that hand that can help her decelerate into the tight turn.
Tandems are also looking good! She is figuring out that these are collection cues here too and did really well. The happy bouncing in the early moments after you added the speed of the front cross was all good – I like that she was having a good time with these! And like with the lap turns, she ended the session with really lovely tight turns 🙂
Zig zags: looking good too!!
Yes, move faster for now, and soon enough she will recognize the game 🙂 and you won’t have to be as fast with the handling. She was already starting to recognize the pattern here and do it more independently.Next session, move everything closer together so you have the bar of 1 touching the wing of 2, and move the 3rd wing in to touch the bar of 2. That way there is no space between the bar and wings 🙂
And yes, that means both of you will need to be quicker! If it is too hard, you can angle the bars/wings so she can see a bit of a line down the middle (bar 2 angled towards the tire in this video, bars 1 and 3 angled towards the camera). That might make it even easier for her to read without you needing to worry about being late 🙂Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyEek I hate when I lose a post! Ugh!
But it sounds like a good trial for Tango! Being able to turn things into noticeable differences is AWESOME because history was not in your favor. So your training has really been impactful if the difference is noticeable already. YAY!!!!!! Some of her start line behavior might be pretty reflexive at this point, so with changes being seen by others as well… that’s pretty amazing 🙂
I love that you got a side eye from her and turned it into a good run! Ha!!!Thank you for the update, it is a great start to a Monday!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>ahve tried this in the past and she doesn’t drop the toy with the out, just runs by towards the other toy and then decides if she is going to let go or not to pick up the other toy (both are milkers). Same thing Rayven did when I did this with her.
With the rain I tried a bit of fetch in the basement and gave her some cheese if she dropped the toy when she got clode to me. Had some success with that. Seems cheese might be more important then toys.>>Got it – so keep strengthening the out with the 2nd toy present. The 2nd toy doesn’t move until she has released the first toy, so the ‘out’ gets paired into the way to get you to present or throw the 2nd toy. It is a good one to do indoors in a small space! And also building the out value with cheese is great. The cheese can start close to you and then eventually you can toss it to set the scene for using tossed toys instead.
>>>Another contact question – I was intending on buying the teeter course to work on this summer. Does it cover everything start to finish, including the way you are teaching the 2o2o now?
Yes, start to finish including the teeter-specific 2o2o (3 demo dogs and 2 of them do the 2o2o).
>> I am also a little confused about the tracks mentioned on the course, especially the uphil/downhill ones.>>
The behavior is split into tiny pieces and tracks, so the uphill has to do with driving up the plank and the downhills have to do with driving into end position.
On the videos:
Baby level:
Yes, she had a little trouble with the lead out, great job rewarding it a lot – she had no trouble in the advanced video from what I could see!She really had no trouble with the sends. She seemed to have very strong commitment and she was setting up the turn nicely in both directions. Interestingly, the praise at 2:09 and 2:38 was actually a bit distracting to her, drawing her focus to you a bit too much before the release so she had to adjust back out. The praise marker might also be a reward marker (indicating reinforcement from you) so you can try the lead outs with the same pause to get into position but not the praise – the release can be just as affirming for the stay as the ‘good girl’ 🙂
advanced video:
Yes, this went well too!! She reflects the handling really well, that is the good news and the bad news LOL!!!>> . I used le and ri when I should’ve used dig and check on the FC we did.
Yes, the wrap verbals are better for that. She read the handling brilliantly though, very happy with that!
>> On the DOL side where I just tried to do a 180 type turn to the 2nd jump she kept coming inside the jump. I think I did a couple of things wrong – turned away too soon and didn’t say connected. Although she had no problem with that on DOR but I did stay connected better.>>
I agree, it was a connection issue, you were turning your dog-side shoulder away (I call it ‘closing your shoulder’) so as she landed from the jump, she could really only see your back and was guessing at :44, :57 and 1:28. Compare that to 1:14 and 2:16, for example, when you keep your shoulder more open to her so she can see connection – and she totally knew where to go 🙂
>>it also feels like I am too still but given the position of the leadout it is hard to show any motion.
Most of the lateral lead out stuff on real courses will allow you to move away pretty quickly, so the lack of motion here was more of a way to practice the connection 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>I wanted to make sure I got the set up broken down correctly for the backside proofing and that I’m walking in the correct place. She did much better –
Yes! This looked good, you can add a bar to it. When the bar comes back in, 2 things to add:
Run more! We want to set the line from ahead so you need to be jogging or she smokes you :), so you can jog up the line and the n build to running.Keep your feet facing completely straight until just as her nose arrives at the wing, then you can turn away. Try not to roll your shoulders away til after she arrives at the wing – feet going straight forward helps set the line at this stage of training.
>>only got me once where she cut in front of the wing.>>
she had a valid question there – the verbal needs physical support for now, and at :07 watch your feet – they turned away as she was moving up the line and you were not moving a lot, so she questioned the line and came in.
You were better on the others with your feet moving straight up the line for longer, especially :21 and :24 as you added more lateral distance away from the wing. Yay!
>>We tried the countermotion in the basement early this morning and it went much better, so I tried it outside. I’m still moving slowly, but changing my focal point helped a lot.>>
Yes, totally looked good!!! Shifting the focal point helped her a lot, and you were able to release when you were on the takeoff side and she still took the jump.
You can use your arm to help shift the focus to the landing spot – you can use the dog side arm (arm closer to the wing) to point back to the landing spot. It will feel like a bit of a swoosh back behind you, rather than keeping it at your side. It will be moving when you add running, so we might as well use the swooshing to your benefit 🙂
Speaking of adding running: the next step is to release when you are more on the takeoff side, one or two more steps past the exit wing.
And then… add moving faster – jogging then building to running.
>> Good grief, I was all over the place with toy throws – hit her in the head, knocked the bar down… Despite all of that, it went better than yesterday.>>
That is the hilarious part of trying to run AND place reinforcement LOL!! She was very forgiving and didn’t seem too judgmental about it 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
He did really well here in both directions! It is rare that the dogs can do it well in both directions at this age and I didn’t see any difference when going to his left or to his right. YAY!!! And great job to you with the timing, the connections, and all the verbals. Click/treat for you!!!! That really helped him.
He did well with the ‘back’ verbal and turn away on the wings!!!
Only wo little suggestions to consider:
He prefers to look for you when he is exiting the tunnel rather than blast straight. That is fine (and actually a little better than trying to convince him to turn LOL!) so to get a straighter exit, you can give him a little GO! before he enters. That will help propel him away to the wing/jump after it, at which point you can switch to your back cue.
You can also give a wrap cue on the wing at 1:05 before the in in tunnel threadle, just to set up the turn even more (especially when we replace the wings with jumps, to set up the collection). So as he exits the ‘back’ at 1:04, you can be giving him a wrap verbal. Your timing of the in in was lovely and he was GREAT with his response! It is a really hard tunnel threadle and he nailed it. SUPER HAPPY DANCE!!!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>I noticed in your backside video you are using the banana arm. Or, the off side arm out cue. Are we supposed to do that? I think I wasn’t facing Sprite enough on the backside session. Gemma has such an awesome backside that I just expect it. But, Sprite is definitely more handler focused naturally>>
You *can* totally use the opposite arm for the backside cue – it is the same arm use as the get out arm: pulling your outside shoulder forward of your body. But, you don’t have to it. Or, you can start with that and then fade it (which is what I did with the dog in the demos: he now no longer needs the outside arm for backsides).
You can add more connection for the backsides but the extreme connection needs to also have the outside shoulder forward (which is why the outside arm is helpful because it ‘pulls’ the shoulder forward as you point to the entry wing). If you it simply increased eye contact, we humans end up bending over/rotating and drawing our shoulders back… which cues the dog to the front side.
So I start with the outside arm to help mysefl establish good mechanics and teach the skill and for most dogs, we fade it. The only one of my dogs that needs it right now is my 9 year old dog, because his foundation was not as good and because he completely understands the outside arm cue for the backside.
And Gemma is a lot more experienced, so I think Sprite’s handler focus is simply young dog inexperience. And it is a GOOD thing! We don’t want the dogs NOT focusing on what we are doing LOL!
The lead outs on the video looked lovely – I like the lines she is choosing in order to set up the turn! She made all adjustments before arriving at the jump. Perfect! Interestingly, she rounds her line when turning right and collects more/sharpens the line when turning left. We can time the difference eventually when she is doing this in sequence, because the sharper turns are prettier but often the rounded lines are faster 🙂
The first part of the session looked great (right turns). I think you can put a low bar back into this: do a couple of warm up reps without the bar to refresh the skill then add an 8 inch bar and see how she deos with organizing before takeoff.
>>But, when we changed sides she got sticky. Couldn’t hold the line or wouldn’t release.
Looking at that, it might have been a couple of things: she was not lined up as well an dwas pretty far from the jump on the first rep or two so was facing you a little more even before the release. And, she had just gotten a lot of reinforcement in that area where you were standing on the right turn reps… so she might be very literal with reward placement LOL! “Mom, I had to go there to get the reward last time, so here I come!”
Then the sticky releases might just be her asking a “what the heck!” question.After the break, she as QUITE lovely! I like what she is doing with the line and turn here too.
So you can show her the left turns first next time, setting her up as straight to the line as possible and change sides more frequently too so she doesn’t get locked into the literal reward spot. I think having the bar come back in will help because she an use the bar as a focal point, so bring it back in for the left turns too (after a rep or two of refreshing the left turns without the bar first).
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>He is really starting to understand that verbal and it will be great to not need any type of handler motion to command.
Yes! it will be really useful on course!
>>Here is a repeat of the zig zag drill. I am a bit late on the cue as he moves down the line.
He did well here, I like the offset angles for him. He is getting quicker and more comfortable with the lead changes here. So with that in mind, using the exact same set up – you can start to make the handling cues smaller. At this point, I think he will recognize the setup so you can use smaller arm movements (and no foot movement) to cue the line. That way you don’t have to worry about being faster or earlier, because smaller movement is naturally quicker 🙂
By smaller movement, the hands can be lower, elbows a bit bent, and you are basically pointing back and forth without rotating at the waist at all.
>>I may work on it again with the wings more spread out to improve the timing of the cue.
Start with the smaller movements first – then our goal is to bring the wings/bars closer together so that he is basically bouncing back and forth. You can keep the offset angles in place for as long as needed til he can do it with minimal handling from you 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracySUPER!!!!! She got into her line up in a trial environment without needing to see the toy, and held it really well.
>>Recommendations?
She holds the stay better when you run away in the lead out. We saw it in Kiln at the camp, and I see it here: she is bouncing forward a bit when you were walking. But did you see how she got SOLID in the stay when you started running? Love it! So… start jogging off the line and get to full speed as quickly as you can, as that solidifies her stay (totally opposite of what we would expect, but… keeps up on our toes LOL!) So the quicker she gets into her position, the faster you leave and the quicker you run away and release her… all of that is reinforcing to her so we can definitely use it!
Great job! Keep me posted on today!
TracyGood morning! And Happy Birthday!!
He did well here – it was definitely challenging because he was well aware of where the cookies were, but it looks like he was able to respond to all the cues quickly and correctly. Super!!! The paws up trick is a good one for focus and the line up trick is great for the start line.
At 1:41 you did a ‘right here’ to ask him to move away from the reward station – I liked that better than the earlier reps where you said ‘let’s go’, because the let’s go is also the cue to go back to the rewards and we don’t want to confuse him 🙂
At 1:50, it looks like he thought he was in stay (a small raising of your hand after the touch might be part of a hand signal for sit/stay, maybe?) so he was not as fast to release to the cookies. But no worries, because he was still responding to a cue 🙂 Good boy!
This looked really good – definitely take it on the road to class and the training field. And at home, add in the leash to get him used to it (and because the leash is a pain in the butt for us humans to wrangle too!)
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
