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Hi!
>>Good to know how far from the bar you thought looked the best for him! The second bar was at 10 inches for this session and the first bar at 4 inches.>>
I love obsessing on these things LOL! He is going to physically change a LOT in the next few months, so there is no rush to get the bars tall. He might be full height at the shoulder, but his chest shoulders and rear are all going to start to expand and muscle up. No need to cement the jumping skills til he is in his adult body, so this is more about coordination.
>> For the verbals, he was surprisingly good in that session.
Some dogs are just amazingly verbal – he appears to be one of those, happy to process verbals and have an easy time doing it. YAY!!!! My Contraband and your classmate Ripley are also amazing at processing the verbals. I am surprised that they are all male because usually males are a little more immature at this stage. But my male dogs are outpacing my female dogs in verbal processing!
>> I would LOVE to have him know the difference between coming in gentle and hot. At the moment, both are hot, lol!
Totally know what you mean! I never taught my 9 year old dog the difference between coming in hot or not… and to this day he still makes mistakes that involve my flesh. Ha! The youngsters know the difference and my fingers/hands are much happier 🙂
T
Hi! She did well here! Nice job with the various verbals!
>>Not sure if I’m giving her too much help or not enough.
I think you can help a little more with the handling – turning towards the tunnel helps, and stepping to the wing helps when you want the wrap after a tunnel. You can use handling for this game, because the motion of handling can actually make it a little harder while also supporting the line.
Be careful on the tunnel sends to step forward and not back – at :25 you stepped back away from the wing & tunnel and she wasn’t sure what you wanted (you can reset her in those moments with a quick tug to get her back in position). On the wraps you tend to step back to rotate a bit (like at :57, 1:10, 1:16) which is fine so when you said tunnel and stepped back she was confused 🙂
When you do the tunnel to the wrap, one more step will help her know to keep going. When you were too stationary at 1:24, she was unsure so feel free to handle a bit more there.
Overall, though, she was terrific! She doesn’t seem to fully love tunnels yet, so you can reward by running more so she can chase the toy, which will be more fun and therefore make tunnels more fun too 🙂
>> She is not keen on her collar being held
Yes, she was unimpressed with that LOL! Do you have a little harness? Maybe she will like that better? Or you can slip one finger under the collar and immediately let go – she seemed fine with it for a couple of seconds, then she got angry about it 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! If you are feeling up to it, you can upgrade to a working spot! Email me at agilityuniversity@gmail.com and we can set it up.
TracyHi!
>>Yes, I’m trying to keep my priorities straight with the baby! It can be hard lol!
This is SO TRUE! It can be really hard – there is a lot to do with young dogs and keeping things prioritized is challenging.
On the threadle clip – the MM set up is in the right spot but she should be on the other side of the jump, the backside relative to you (same side as if she was serping it) and on the same sde as the MM, Start her on an easy angle, so it she can easily come to the correct side, then gradually make it harder and harder.
Holy WOW the sequence looked AMAZING. So fast but also perfect turns. Wow, I need to go find my sunglasses because her future is so BRIGHT!!!!
>>This class has been so helpful! I wish it was ongoing 😊!
Glad you liked it! I am thinking in late April/May that I will add a mini class between this and the annual CAMP class – I will not allow myself to sort it out until after I finish my taxes though hahaha 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>I can never find the end date to submit videos, are we done?
April 1st is the last day for video submissions.
>> I think if I could just run with a toy in all the classes….LOL!!
Now that FEO is widely allowed, I do spend a lot of time running FEO at the beginning of a dog’s career and then fade it, rather than use it sporadically. Food for thought!
>>
I’m feeling better about her contacts now than I am about her start lines. All I have to do is twitch or look like I’m going to open my mouth and she’s like got it.
She only broke one other time and we went back. The rest she stayed, but not a stay I’m comfortable with cuz I know it’s not solid like it is at home. I don’t trust it and I don’t like that so we’ll keep ramping it up at home.>>The FEO option there is to go in and reward before she breaks, so she has a lightbulb moment about reinforcement and stays, rather than rehearsing breaking and getting it right the 2nd time.
>>One last thing, we need a much better GO at trials. She is much more handler focused in trials.>>
That is where USDAA or UKI comes in a lot more handy for FEO because you (or a helper in UKI) can throw the reward. Definitely worth seeking out those trials!
T
Good morning! Both of these games are going really well!!!
The zig zag game is off to a great start 🙂
About which side of the wing to be on – you can basically do all the variations of where he starts versus where you start 🙂 so you have push-pull and pull-push in all variations so you can cover all the lead changes.As he gets started, using the BIG handling gestures really helped. The push-pull was harder for him so definitely keep going with the big old school handling cues 🙂 and also he had a hard time ignoring the toy sometimes – so you can use food or a smaller toy for now, to develop the concept. He was really picking it up by the end of the session and later in the video – this is concept work at this point, so my guess is that he will completely understand it by the end of the next session – and then you can go to 4 wings for the session after that 🙂 When you get into 4 wings, it becomes pull-push-pull or push-pull-push, adding the extra striding change. You can back chain it by starting him at wing 2 so it is only 3 wings, then he can start at wing 1 o see all 4 wings.
He is also doing really well on the left/right proofing game! The left turn is definitely his strong suit, welcome to the world of southpaws LOL!! You can use your toy-grab marker for that too (tugtugtug) just to get more in the habit of using it.
For the right turns – you can help him out by starting with several easy ones in a row (starting him on your left) for a couple of reps. Then give him more room by facing the center of the bar more so he is almost straight to the bar – then put him on your right to turn right. He didn’t have a lot of room to squeeze in for the right turns plus the left turns were so much easier – I think changing his line up spot to face the bar on the right turn side will make it easier to jumpstart the behavior.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> In fact, every game we played, he was so happy and engaged. His eyes were bright, he had a happy vibrating tail, and he had that slightly open mouth expression that says, “This is FUN!” I was having fun, too.>>
Yay! This is supposed to be really fun and he did really well too!!!
First up, pattern games:
To help make the important details salient to him, I am going to bug you about mechanics 🙂 (also because you are a great dog trainer and I know you embrace the joys of mechanics :)) The pattern games work best when they are incredibly predictable, so you can use your markers to be more predictable. The marker on the first part was ‘yes go get it’ which is a bit wordy LOL! especially with ‘yes’ being used elsewhere (more on that below) and Go having a different agility meaning. So, mark with simply ‘get it’ (no yes, no go) – that provides 2 pieces of info to him: you are correct and where to look for to get the reward. Now, I know that dogs are brilliant and will figure it out based on context, but I don’t want him to have to even think about that for now.
He thought ‘snacks’ and up and down on your shoes were both super fun and easy peasy 🙂 For now – keep the 3 styles of reinforcement in separate sessions, so that he can find it all ultra predictable. Predictability is incredibly relaxing 🙂
I think you can also do all of these with him wearing a leash, because that is something that will happen at every agility trial. It is amazing how simply adding the handler holding the leash can change things dramatically.
Remote Reinforcement:
I am glad you are already playing this, it is such an important concept!!
2 ideas for you here:Stop saying yes 🙂 I know, I know, we all say yes and it is a hard habit to break, but we need to take it out for a couple of reasons:
first, it is not informational enough in terms of where the reinforcement is. In the RR games, we want the marker to indicate the correct behavior AND tell him where the reinforcement is.
And the ‘yes’ word can actually lead to more confusion because it causes the dog to look at us and then have to wait for info on reinforcement… or if we use it a lot paired with reinforcement delivery, the dog thinks it is a reward marker and then when we say it on course or during ‘work’ (which we ALL dog accidentally LOL!), the dogs stop working and come for reward… and then it can be confusing when they do not get the reward in that instance. So to avoid confusion – use your ‘cookies!’ marker and not the yes.Also with the yes – I think ‘let’s go…cookies’ is the marker here for the RR so using yes is actually causing you to raise criteria too high too soon – rather than a quick “let’s go get your cookies” as soon as he steps away from the RR, it is yes then a pause, where he needs to offer more – then the cookies marker. So don’t wait for offering more right now – do immediate RR marker for stepping away so the criteria is easily met. This will be especially important in more demanding environments.
>> Interestingly, after we brought his arousal up with the flirt pole, he had a harder time coming away from the cheese on the table. I just kept moving around until he made the decision to come get me.>>
I think that was a case of criteria being too high after flirt pole play. Criteria was: move away. He totally met that! We haven’t yet asked for *how* he should move away, just move away with some relative engagement, and that is what he did. He was at ‘romp’ speed but moving away with you. When there was no marker… he got a little stressed so it turned into a little bit of a zoom then he ran back to the reinforcement table. So, especially with the flirt pole, you can mark that first initial step or two away, even if he is not looking at you. Moving away from it as youmove away still counts as engagement with you, because he could also choose to stay at the table LOL!
Instant focus shaping is going well! For the next steps, you can attach that foot target to something bigger so he can step up on it, which will make it more salient when we expand the skill 🙂
>>We got a little too close to the stuffed JRT, but he was able to disengage with no assistance from me.>>
Yes, you increased criteria a little too quickly at 5:06 so he investigated the stuffed JRT – the target is new, so you can keep it a little further away for now. And also, it is possible with his shaping background that when you move the target closer to something, or add something to the environment while shaping, that he thinks that it is now available to interact with as part of the shaping. I think this is what happened at 5:43 when you tossed the mat down – both he and I were like “wait, are we supposed to look at that?” LOL!!!! So to help him understand that we don’t need him to engage with those and they are just distractions you can have the environment already set up with the stuff already on the floor, then bring him into it to play the game.
Lovely work here! Have you had a chance to check out the engaged chill? Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! This looked good! She did REALLY well organizing her jumping! Remind me how tall she is? Now that the target is moving, 4 feet might need to go to 4.5 feet or 5 feet. When you drop the target, start it further from jump 2 and move it before the release, so she has a solid 8 to feet between the 2nd jump and the target before she lands 🙂
>>Can I raise it a little
We can raise it after we find the sweet spot distance between the 2 jumps (and I would also wait to raise it until you can be outdoors on grass, so she can really grip into the grass). So try the 4.5 feet and 5 feet with the moving target, we will see which we like better – then raise the bar 🙂
>>and how often do I do this?
With the bar this low, you can do it 3 or 4 times a week because it is not hard on her body. When the bar starts to go up – twice a week, perhaps, so we don’t overwork her growing body.
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning! Great job in class last night – I am still beaming about how he was totally perfect on the left/right proofing game like it was the easiest thing ever. It is NOT easy! Good boy!
Wrapping away from the tunnel was a good warm up for wrapping towards the tunnel (which was NOT as easy but still definitely rewardable). Both sides looked good!
Tunnel-to-wrap was really good too, he had a super high rate of success. You can add in more motion by doing a FC on the wing and running away back towards the tunnel exit. Even with the rotation, the motion of the FC is challenging! (and you can reward the wrap or send him back in the tunnel then reward, which I think he will like.
You might need to reset when he is wrong rather than keep moving so he doesn’t go offer weaving LOL!
Smiley face game:
I love how you have developed an engaged chill moment of “let me get my shit together” hahaha! He was mostly patient with that 🙂You and he are working beautifully as a team here! YAY!!! He is committing really nicely to everything.
Great connection on the wraps, especially on the wrap exit like at 2:20, 2:54 and 2:57! ! Try to be connected to the tunnel exit sooner, so he sees the connection as soon as he can see you. When you look forwrd even for a heartbeat and reconnect, it can be late like at 2:17 (and a little at 2:48 and 2:52) when he came out looking at you because you looked forwardI like that you spread things out so you had to run more 🙂 that was going to be a suggestion from the first part of it – run more either by spreading things out or by getting closer to the lines. You moved faster but still maintained the connection and verbals! Yay! The only connection that increase is the tunnel exit connection – but when we add directionals on the tunnel exits and when he gets more experience, it won’t be as critical. He gave a little bark at 3:39 after he exited the tunnel, probably asking for more connection there – so feel free to over-connect on those tunnel exits for now: as soon as he enters the tunnel, shift your eyes to the exit and almost reach your eyes into the tunnel LOL And of course do all this while running and giving the next verbal 🙂 It will get easier as he gets more experienced 🙂
Great job here! Hopefully it is NOT 87 degrees today!!
Tracy
Keep me posted and also remember that jump threadles are low on the priority list with baby dogs, especially because she is going to begin her career in AKC. The serps and the other turns (go, wrap, soft turns) are much more important 🙂
T
Hi! You can totally use this setup like you did for rear crosses, he really seemed to be getting it on the first couple of reps!
For the Go rep at :20 and :38 and :57- throw the toy sooner so he doesn’t decelerate or look back at you. The timing of the toy throw reward is when he exits the start wing and looks ahead (long before he arrives at the jump).
You had GREAT timing of the throw at :46!!!! To build the layer, start closer to the start wing so you have room to keep running and layer.If you place the toy out there, it needs to stay out there for all reps, not just the GO reps 🙂 Placing it out there on only the reps where he will go to it doesn’t really help him learn the verbals, because it is too big of a lure. So it can be out there the whole time: sometimes you cue him to go, sometimes you cue the ‘out’ to the other jump like you did at :24 (and then throw a different reward).
Nice work! Let me know what you think! Fingers crossed for great weather on Friday so you can enjoy your day off 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>.The distance did mean I didnt manage to get to the right place often.>>
Yes, this is a big course to try to get to all the places, I feel that pain LOL! But that is why it is also really good for working on the verbals, because we can’t help a lot with handling. I couldn’t necessarily hear all the verbals for most of the video (barking dogs), but I could hear them at the end. One thing I think I could hear was “jump” which might be too general for her. She might need more specific information on the longer lines, like GO GO GO. I also heard the right verbal (that was good – keep supporting it with motion to make it easier for her to turn away) and backside verbals which were also good!
>>. Fusion struggles with focus when distance and speed gets gretaer.
The main thing I see here is that all rewards are coming from your hands, so there is more value next to you, which explains why distance is hard for her: if the value if all close to you, then moving away from you and working at a big distance is not a way to get reinforcement in her mind. Even if you stop her and she sits or downs, You are either delivering the reward to her or doing a short toss of the reward so there is not enough reinforcement away from you on the line.
To help build the distance, try to match your placement of reinforcement to the verbal directional:
-Go means reward is thrown ahead on the line
-left/right means reward is tossed on the soft turn line
-Backside means reward is dropped into the landing side of the jumpOn those 3, don’t reward from your hand and keep moving so you are not near the reward. The wraps can have rewards from you hands! And be sure to plan in advance to get the reward in and be ready to throw it – if you reward after stopping because of an error, it won’t really help build the skill.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> Some of my mistakes are coming from my forgetting when I’m supposed to be moving and talking and when I’m supposed to be still and quiet.
It is probably just muscle memory taking over. For example, I know I am NOT supposed to yell “YES” when my 3 year old dog is on course (because she thinks it is a marker for a cookie and will come to me) but yet… that big YES slips out here and there hahaha. No worries if you move too much 🙂
>> I know you’ve told us but am struggling to remember things 30 seconds after I’ve read them lately, I keep doing it wrong, get flustered and weird.>>
I feel this! Life for all of us lately is like spinning 20 plates in the air and I totally know what you mean about reading something then it is GONE 30 seconds later LOL!! I battle that in training by either bullet-pointing a list of things to remember (in writing or taking a photo on my phone). And, I have one of those small white board and erasable markers so I can make a short list of what I want to do and it sits there, highly visible, while I train the dog (it lives in the car when I am traveling hahaah)
>> I don’t want you to think I’m not listening, I am, Its just not natural yet.
I totally think you ARE listening and making great adjustments. A lot of these games have mechanics that are opposite of what you might have been doing and it is not so easy to change that 🙂 You’re doing a great job!
On the video:
> This is Zippie in a largely empty arena, my least favorite place / time to train because she always seems like a different dog.
Your least favorite… but the most important. That giant empty arena simulates entering the ring and you get similar behavior. She is less stimulated and engaged because the environment doesn’t engage her, so we work to engage her and teach her to center her own arousal level. So even though it is not as much fun for you… you’ll see the results and it will be worth it 🙂
>>She’s much more fun in class – this “ho-hum” dog always surprises me. So I tried to keep it simple and short.>>
I think the session was great! You were so good about being very neutral in your mechanics (not helping, letting her do the work), being quick with the reinforcement, then back to neutral. Yay! And she was able to engage really well in a game that is not naturally stimulating. Perfect!
You kept it short, sweet, and highly reinforcing. A big win! Part of what is happening is that we are changing her conditioned emotional response: instead of the “omg this big ring, I feel the pressure” we are saying “yes, big ring, easy game, lots of cookies, good times ahead” which will help translate to a positive conditioned emotional response while also getting her to produce “trained” behavior in a lower state of arousal (which brings her to a higher state). It all works together in a big happy cycle.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHello and welcome, I am glad you are here even though it sounds like life has been insane lately!!!
Poor you, poor Merlin. Sorry about your arm but I am glad it is unfreezing!!! Let me know if there is anything I can do to help while your arm gets back to normal. And I am VERY glad Merlin is ok after the dog attack!!!!!
About the engaged chill – it can be a minute or less if it is hard, especially after wound care. It should be a really happy time for you both – and it can be something like hanging on the couch together watching TV for now too 🙂 It is basically quality time without food or toys, where you interact in a chill way and relax together. Let me know if that makes sense. Keep me posted on how it goes, and how you both feel!
TracyGood morning!
I love being able to elicit trial behaviors in training!!
>> I decided to see what she would do when it was just the two of us and I didn’t do any ‘heating of the porridge’ before asking for a couple of behaviors and then trying to run her. I didn’t bring her ball out and just put some med-high value treats on a chair in the shed.
Sounds like you were able to change the home environment to be more uncertain, which made it more like the trial environment – lower arousal and questions about how the reinforcement can be earned. Impactful!
>>She was willing to walk along with me and do a right and a left and some nose touches (no treats/reward other than verbal). She was even willing to bark at me. When we moved to the ‘start line’, she did her shut down, wouldn’t make eye contact and could/would no longer perform any behavior.
Well, this is good because now we have a general idea of what is happening! Uncertainty (“what is happening, why is this different?”) and confusion about how to earn reinforcement (“wait, where is the reward? Where is the usual comfort zone game for reward?”) translated in trial behavior response. Huzzah!
So, even though she has a good understanding of running courses at home with toys or treats outside the ring, it has not fully translated to the trial environment and you are able to reproduce the behavior. With that in mind:
– let’s really focus on working the remote reinforcement all the way from the bottom up. No porridge heating before it – just show her the reward, put it down, start to move away. This is the tiny slice of the bigger picture that she struggled with.
– let’s focus on the engaged chill behavior too. There is a distinct correlation between dogs struggling with the trial environment and a lack of engaged chill behavior (the dogs need to be kept in “hot porridge” with cookies and toys). Does correlation equal causation? I don’t know but over the years, the lack of engaged chill is consistent across the spectrum. And having engaged chill skills is also consistently found in dogs that can easily succeed in the ring in terms of focus.
– and, another non-porridge-heating game: the pattern game. Definitely work this in a cold porridge state because it helps the dog assess the environment and look inward, to help control her internal state. In order words, she will learn to look around and be fine with it all because she knows how to center herself, rather than rely on external things (tricks and treats and balls) for that.
Let me know how it goes!
Tracy
