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Good morning! He is doing really well!!! Most baby dogs are either handler focused or line focused as they start out, so I am not concerned that he is handler focused right now – we will be able to shift that pretty easily now that the snow is gone!
A couple of ideas for you – handling and training ideas:
From the handling side of things, try more direct connection here, more eye contact with your arm back as you run (I know, I am asking for all the things :)) The increased connection will help in the moments when he exits the tunnel straight and needs to know where to go (like at :13 when you were looking ahead, he didn’t know which side to be on, and on the left/right soft turns where he jumped up a little when the connection was a little too soft). So for now, exaggerate the connection and then you can soften it as he gets older and more experienced. And the connection will help support the verbals too!
For the tunnel turn verbals, you can say them sooner – trust that he is committed to the tunnel after the first couple of tunnel cues, then when he is 3 or 4 feet from the entry, switch to the exit cues especially on the left/right turns. On the very last rep at 1:38 you said “run” before he entered – that is more like the timing and can be a little sooner!
From the training side:
I like the placed reward for the run reps and you can also throw the reward really early on those if you are not placing it in advance (throw it as soon as he is heading to the tunnel so it land before he exits). You can also throw reinforcement within the sequence, especially for the RUN moments (throw rather than cue the wing) and the left/right turns so he continues on his line after them.
One other suggestion – you can make the verbals more salient and individual by changing the pitch and rhythm in the delivery. I am not sure if you ever played in a band, but your verbals were in a distinct 4/4 time 🙂 and relatively same pitch which makes them sound a bit similar and harder to distinguish in the heat of the moment. So you can speed up the wraps and extend the left/right, and be softer on the turn cues and really loud on the run cues 🙂 All of that will make each sound ‘pop’ more so he can distinguish better as you are putting all the pieces together.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Congrats on his success in the Rally ring! I love training in different sports and competing in different sports – I debuted my young dog this weekend in flyball, using many of the games we are doing here! Cross training really helps 🙂
He did really well with the pattern game here in a new environment, I am really excited about how well he was offering engagement!
If he is engaged, and offering re-engagement really fast, you don’t need to keep working it because he probably won’t look away from you LOL!!! You can end the session or go do something else. And yes, try to stick to the one style of delivery in each session but he totally was happy here!
>>look at his strange reaction when I offer him food from my hand … if I was in motion he would have taken it .. but this scenario sees him not wanting to take it from my hand…any thoughts on this?
He looked like he was not sure if he should jump up to take it? You can offer it with your feet stationary and your hand moving really low, so he can chase your hand a bit.
Watching the remote reinforcement session:
A question about markers: are you using the same word (treaties) for cookies from hand and for the remote reinforcement? If so, I suggest a different one for the RR so he doesn’t get confused. If not, carry on 🙂
When working the RR game in a new environment, especially one as difficult as this: dial back the criteria 50% or more to set up success. So if he can do 4 steps with focus and no sniffing at home, try for 1 or 2 steps in the new environment. You were doing several steps so he was sniffing. So start with 1 step and then mark and reward. Then 2 steps, then 1 step. And when he is head up and not sniffing, try 3 steps 🙂 His response will let you know when you can add more steps 🙂 The environment is difficult plus he has a bit of sniffing history, so making this game super easy in the new place will really help us towards our goal of having him move with you with engagement and without sniffing 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyNo worries, I think he is still learning the parameters of new games and new cookie placement, so he just needs to see a couple of sessions then he will be very happy with it 🙂
TracyGood morning!
She did really well here!! Hooray!
Building up the RR game is so important and this session went really well! I think the most important element is simply getting the dog to choose rather than the human cuing all the things 🙂
When she is on leash… you can totally hold the leash, so it is normal to what she will see at a trial, as long as you don’t use the leash as a cue.
>>Of course we’ve done similar things but this was a little different, perhaps because we’ve been playing games lately and so maybe she’s more keen / curious about what new shenanigans I’m up to? But I’m telling you, I don’t think I’ve ever just walked along with her “off” leash at my side without feeling the need to make sure she’s paying attention. >>
My guess is that you might have previously played several steps down the road when we do ask for behavior… but that will fall apart quickly in higher distraction environments if the dog has not learned how to choose to leave the reward station in the first place. That’s why we just start with a couple of steps and no cues here. And there is no pressure so it is relatively easy, which makes for a high rate of reinforcement.
>>(that could say a lot more about me needing to chill a bit, as well).>>
Haha! Yes, chill is a great thing! NOT cuing something and still having engagement is critical. How is your engaged chill coming along? I will bug everyone about it because it is really important and so far there have been exactly zero video submissions on it from all the people in this class LOL! We are not a chill bunch LOL!
>>But what I learned in the segment not shown is that I need to give her a moment to finish chewing before walking away or she’ll just wait for me near the food. If I wait for her to look up after chewing then turn to walk away it becomes a together thing!
Yes – definitely let her finish the chewing. You can pick up the entire reward bowl or bag as you deliver the treat, let her finish it, then let her see you put it down to start the next rep – that can help cue that the next rep is starting, rather than walking away without a sense of readiness.
>>You’ll see at 1:25 the environment started to draw her focus away, so I experimented with a couple of “get it” tosses to bring her up a bit, then restarted Remote Reinforcement walkaways. This felt good – what are your thoughts?>>
I think that falls a little too much into the category of cuing the behavior versus letting her choose – so you can just wait for the offered engagement for now, let her see you put the reward down, and try it. If the environment draws her focus, move away from the environment because we don’t want to teach this in a distracting environment. The game is pretty distracting so for now, the environment should be relatively sterile (we will crank it up soon enough LOL!)
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>>> have you worked on any reward markers with him, like when the cookie is tossed versus handed to him I use yes/nice for marker and get it for ones I toss. I’m not as consistent on the hand feed especially if luring and a little soft spoken on the toss. These are more noticeable in the below with cookies on table.>>
Perfect! Keep working those, especially with toys
>> he was hilarious when you did the empty hand leg weaves and he looked around like you must’ve dropped the cookies hahahaha so funny! Yes, he keeps my class entertained and trainers shaking their heads. I call him Mr Fun. But he probably remembers that I did drop cookies when I was doing it during his fitness.>>
Yes, and I also think it shows us how convinced he is that there will be cookies in your hand. And that is fine for fitness but it can get us in trouble when we would like for him to run agility and there are no cookies! So I think the games will build up to where he can do all sorts of things with no cookies present 🙂
For example, on the leg weave video – I * think* your hand was empty as you were cuing it? Hard to see – but watch him reach for the hand with an open mouth, so he has a conditioned response to cookies being in your hand – which means he probably gets stressed and changes arousal state when there are no visible cookie or toy reinforcements.
>>What do you use for a line?
I use a long, light leash.
Cookies on the table: this is great and definitely an important step!
This was definitely harder! Note how his favorite trick, middle, was not as crisp on that very first rep – he kind of did it but then kept moving through and looked at you with a bit of a question in his facial expression. He was able to do all his tricks but not quite as well as with cookies in hands, which is fine (and normal) – that is exactly why we are doing this game, to help him understand how to do tricks without food in your hands (because agility is really one giant string of tricks :)) At the start of each session:
Try to drop your criteria back by about 50%, meaning – accept smaller bits of the behavior and reward sooner. You can get one rep and reward immediately, even with tricks that you might normally get 2 or 3 things in before a reward (like touches). And if there is a trick he can’t do (like reverse), then don’t ask for it at this point.
As the session went along, he got crisper and crisper with his responses – SUPER!!!So for this game – do another session or two, like this! We can move to the next step when he is responding the same as he does when there are cookies in your hand 🙂
Also – feel free to try this with toys (or cleaning implements :)) It is the same progression as with food – first the toy is in your hand and quite obvious, then it is on a table next to you.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyOMG! I love the Webster!
I know that we spend time and money trying to find the perfect dog toy… but I think you have them in the form of the Webster and the feather duster and maybe a little hand broom 🙂 I know dogs that have won world championships and their toy was a fly swatter or an empty water bottle LOL!! So if he likes these as toys, I highly recommend them!Another option to consider: cat toys. As long as there is not catnip and also that you don’t let him play with them on his own (they are easily destroyed), you might find that the feathery wonderfulness of a lot of cat toys are really appealing to him! I used cat toys a lot with my Papillons and other smaller dogs.
(Yes, it is a pain the butt to try to clean the house with the dog loving implements as toys, but he can chill in another room while you clean and then you will have a treasure chest of toys available :))
T
Good morning!
>>1. I have been working on the pattern game on walks. How fluent should the pattern be to continue verse bailing and moving further from distraction (ie squirrel in tree)? Is a 1 second look on each end okay, 5 seconds, 10 seconds? She was able to disengage without my signal but when I was what I would consider too close (based on her response) it was 10 seconds to disengage each end. I didn’t intend to make it that difficult and next time worked further away with much more fluency, but in the moment I couldn’t decide whether to immediately back up or continue with the slow responses (FYI it didn’t improve in several reps).>>
It will depend on history with the distraction, level of distraction, and if the latency shortens when she recognizes the game. So if the game is relatively new, it won’t be as easy to recognize in the face of squirrel excitement which as a longer history of being something to stare at 🙂 So if you get caught in a real life moment, you can play the game as you are moving away – start it with a get it rather than waiting for her to automatically disengage (if the game is not already underway) and throw that get it cookie in a direction that takes your further from the distraction. And if she gets ‘stuck’ you can totally move away to help her (10 seconds is a relatively long time, I am glad she could do it but yo can move her away to help shorten that up). The main thing will be what happens in the NEXT session so we have an idea of what she is learning. For training, for now, set things up so she is far enough away that she can respond within a second or two.
>>2. I the game where you leave the toy. I put it on the chair and rewarded 1-2 steps with great focus then pinged to 3 and she stopped dead. She didn’t go grab the toy but didn’t come for what felt like an eternity. What do I do in that moment – freeze and wait, continue walking, or call her reward and reset? I did a few more short and then she did 3 steps with focus and we quit. >>
So it was just that one time? That is not that unusual for dogs learning this game (I think the scientific abbreviation for it is “WTF” hahaha). You can freeze and wait with engagement, smile, breathe. And count in your head. If another 10 seconds go by with her being frozen, you can call her out of it and reset the game (I use a reset cookie there to avoid stress, that frozen moment at 3 steps is a stress sign).
I think it is GREAT we are seeing these behaviors because they are showing us where she doesn’t understand something and that is changing her ring behavior.
The nose work video is GREAT! I love that she enjoys it! And yes, that is a really lovely work state from her! If she really loves nose work and finds it relatively easy…. we put the remote reinforcement games into it (I don’t think anyone does nose work for RR, I have only ever seen the cookies with the handler). One of the reasons dogs love nose work is that the reinforcement gets to be VERY predictable – I really don’t see the stress we see in agility where reinforcement can be wildly unpredictable and almost never at the ‘source’ in competition.
I am a huge fan of cross training, so the nose work is great. It will help teach her skills that can be brought into agility! Is there even a time in nose work where the handler does NOT have the treats with her? Maybe you and Shelly can do nose work games where there are other dogs moving and around as distractions (I believe that nose work does not have other dogs present, right?) I need to get video today of how these games get played in the flyball setting, because using these games I was able to get Contraband to debut in flyball despite having never run in a 4 dog line up and never having run with a 4 dog team in the other lane (definitely not ideal LOL!!!) but his focus was incredible and reproduced the current state of his trained behavior, in the new cray environment.
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
That is good that she can do it at home! I think that there will be 3 big pieces of the puzzle:
The engaged chill so you can both relax more outside the ring
And the full on extensions of the remote reinforcement, where she totally understands it in a trial setting, including being able to do tricks and such on the start line (being able to change her state of arousal on the start line)
– easing it all into trialing with training in the ring opportunities so that it is a gradual transition to full courses with no reward in the ring.
Keep playing each game, either to start the new ones or refresh the existing ones – they will build up into those big pieces 🙂
We can totally watch the video in the Chat!! Can you send it to my email agilityuniversity@gmail.com ?
Thanks!
TracyGood morning!
He definitely wasn’t too into it to start, but you made the adjustment of rewarding faster and also got him moving more, so he got into it!! It ended up being a really good example of how Teresa tricks can raise arousal so that he can go into a better state of readiness to work 🙂One idea for you is to adjust the food delivery if you need him to get more into it: rather than feeding from a stationary hand or tossing the treat away from you (which might not be possible outside the ring at a trial) you can use the cookie like a toy, by moving it in your Jan, getting him to follow it, even running a few steps before you deliver it. That can definitely be useful at a trial!
Nice work here – for the next tricks session, try moving the cookie like a toy. And then for the one after that, have the cookies on a counter or table next to you, not in hands or pockets.
TracyGood morning!
This went well, I think the hardest part for her was finding the cookie quickly after the toss, to come back fast to you. You might want to start that indoors so she doesn’t have to find it in grass, just to establish the game.
She was beginning to find the position and that’s great! Feel free to use a hand to help her target the position- sometimes she ran to your side, probably because that is where the value has been.
For the next session, warm up with where you left off here and then try for the dismount and stay 🙂
Nice work!
TracyHi! He is so fun to watch!!!!!
Great job here, it provides an excellent baseline.
First, a question: have you worked on any reward markers with him, like when the cookie is tossed versus handed to him (I say get it versus snacks)? I think adding just a couple of those will help make reinforcement more predictable for him.
Yes, middle is GREAT and you can totally use it as an engagement game and maybe also a line up. When you don’t want him to offer it, just keep your feet together like you did in the 2nd video 🙂
Tricks that I saw here that I think are fabulous and useful:
Circle
Leg weaves
Touch
Paws up on your leg and hand – paws up on your arm was almost a wave, that is a great one to shape
Target
SpinsThe things that were more fitness-y, like pivoting or sit-to-stand or backing up were not as crisp, maybe because they are harder and need a bit more cookie support.
2nd video – this was harder with the cookie in the hand! But he still did well! One thing is to keep your hand away from the cookie holder – even having your hand near there means cookies are coming, so for the next session you can work tricks with the cookie holder on a table next to you and not on your waist.
He was fabulous with his middle cue of course.
He definitely is used to a cookie in the hand – he was hilarious when you did the empty hand leg weaves and he looked around like you must’ve dropped the cookies hahahaha so funny!
And he was still able to do a lot of the tricks but he was not quite as ‘crisp’ with them and offering the highly valued ones (middle :)) instead. Good to know! I think with more practice of the cookies NOT in your hand, he will be fine with that and then we can build up even more.So for the next session, have the cookies up on a table right next to you – call him into a middle (because that can be a bit of “game on!”) and then do 4 or 5 tricks (cookie for each one). Just when he is ready for more…. give him a break 🙂 Let’s leave him wanting more so we can extend the engagement even more over time.
One more question – have you used the toys for any of these: middle then a flirt pole, or circle then chase a clam on a line, for example? That is definitely something to try!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Because he is not a hard-core foodie, we can look at other ways to use reinforcement to get him engaged:>>He does go crazy over the broom and Webster and bites/tugs it but I don’t use that as a reward>>
What is a Webster?
Have you ever considered getting a hand broom or feather duster to use as a tug toy? If you do it in a training setting (and maybe crate him when you are actually trying to clean the house LOL!) you can have a really great reinforcement!>>Food delivery makes a difference so he loves to chase it tossed over delivery to mouth and chasing a toy like clam where he opens to get food>>
I am glad you are letting him chase the food! One thing that I do with my dogs is tie the clam or lotus ball or treat hugger to a line, so I can swing it around and have the dogs chase it.
>>He loves squeaky balls, a little fur squeaker, and flirt pole>
Great! These are all good rewards, I was going to ask about a flirt pole!
>>I did not train to bark on cue but he is very vocal and sings
when my phone rings, use blender, or play piano>>I like to put barking on cue, so feel free to name it – see if you can elicit it and then put it on cue. It is a GREAT engagement tool!
>>Impulse games like whip it
What is whip it?
Onwards to the videos!
T
Hello and welcome!
I love that you are starting this with a baby dog – many of us do this after a problem has cropped up, but I have learned (learned the hard way haha) to do this as trial prep with the bebes to ease them in. I did all of the games today and Contraband made his flyball debut and earned his first flyball title!Thank you for the history. This is GREAT!
>>⅞ Border Collie ⅛ Aussie
Wait I had no idea he had a splash of Aussie in there! VERY fun!
What is/are your main sport(s)?
>>I’ve done everything except UKI in the past. Haven’t decided yet for this kid but will likely do a mixture and focus on 1 or 2 out of the batch (we have LOTS of all except UKI – fewer of those here in Northern CA).
Perfect! And the UKI people are making a concerted effort to grow it in Northern CA so I think you will have more of those soon.
>>We did have a teenage period from about 8-12 months where he was showing some leash frustration/reactivity that seems to have improved over the past few months with a combination of CU games, exposure at a comfortable distance and a nice Kathy Sdao cue transfer of see the worrisome, obnoxious, staring dog and turn and bump my fist which has now become a rest your nose on my thigh (or calf or shoe if laying down).
Good for you for helping him out! I love the Kathy Sdao game!
>>(plus being able to go with his uber optimistic and appropriate big brother – the Greater Swiss Mountain Dog – who models perfect greeting skills).
I am a HUGE fan of modeling! I love that you did this and I have found it be super helpful with a lot of dogs.
And I love that you are finding the CU games helpful – even just one or two in the toolbox can be super magical.
>>Similar for personal interaction but he amps up quickly with nothing in his mouth so I would typically at least give him something to hold in his mouth while we do more personal play stuff.>>
Probably just youthful inexperience on what to do with himself in those moments 🙂 For now, totally let him have something in his mouth and we will build the rest up in coming week through the remote reinforcement procedures.
And you can start these games on leash and mid-game transition to off leash. Some of the start games this week are things that he has already done (a bit of pattern game, TONS of tricks, a bit of remote reinforcement) so you can jump right into the leash on and then coming off because that is an area where he is probably inexperienced (I show my dogs leash procedures at home so they are not seeing it for the first time at a trial).
And since he has experience in several of the starter games, we will come up with ways to add fun challenge 🙂 Definitely look at the engaged chill and the instant focus, because I don’t think he has seen those yet.
I love watching his tunnelers run – and it is so cool to see how much he has matured since then, just a few months ago!
I am excited to see more of him!
TracyHi!
I am glad to hear that Leo has vet clearance! Yay!
You were combining the games here LOL! but it works pretty well for this setup! So for the proofing version- add more rotation on the KKKK by doing a front cross and run away. I don’t think he needs it as much on the shhhh (left turn) but that is fine to do on that turn too. He is a lefty 🙂 For the youngsters, it is totally fine to add handling to the proofing at first because he can still totally take the tunnel even if you front cross 🙂 And the handling will help – then we can fade it out.
For the full-on smiley face games, spread things out and run run run 🙂 I think that will be great for him, because by the last mini course he was fabulous! So you can now add the challenge of more motion (for both of you :))
And great job with the verbals and connections!!!!! You were lovely on all of them!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
He did well in a noisy environment! Good boy!!!!Tricks – he did well here – you didn’t have to work too hard to get him engaged and he was very energetic 🙂 Remember to reward each trick for now rather than doing several in a row 🙂 You can now start them with him on a leash, so he gets used to having the distraction of the leash involved.
In the second game – it took him a heartbeat to get the remote reinforcement started but he did, good boy! This one is very hard for him – you can make a clearer transition to help him out: have him next to you, let him see you make a big deal of putting your treat skirt down, then walk away. And, you can add a leash to this one too 🙂
Pattern games – he definitely understand the first one with treats tossed out to the side! And he did really well with the neutral distraction too. YAY! The treats on feet and from hands were harder for sure, possibly because they are new or different from what he has seen before? So you can do more of these, but separate sessions of each so the rewards are incredibly predictable (one session for dropping on feet, and one separate session for reward from hand, rather than mixing it up in each session And for this one too… now add the leash in 🙂 We are going to use the leash as the first step to transition them to trials 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
