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Hi!
>>On the head down with motion, should I focus on more movement from me or add a jump?>[
Add the jump!
>>On the ZZ you say to work all angles, since the dogs position relative to bar does not change are you referring to handler position?>>
I must have mistyped or been under-caffeinated 🙂 the angles are on the organizers 1 game, where we do the around the clock approaches. 🙂
TracyHi!
Yes, when adding the motion it was good to go to the double foam board, he did really well here! He was definitely wanting to be forward based on your motion (weight in his shoulders) which made it harder for him so it 🙂 But he did! Good boy! You can dial back your motion so you don’t end up stopping with him – he was also wanting to cue off of your deceleration, but we want him to use his hind even when you are staying in motion. So move a little less fast but keep moving the whole time, until you see him tucking his hind end immediately without shifting forward to his front then to his back. It will probably happen in the next session – and then you can add a little more motion and also add it to the wing 🙂
On them motion override – yes, a little bit of manspread LOL! But the flatwork here is more about the concept and he was gtting it nicely. Do one more session of this… and don’t let yourself decelerate when you are cuing the sit. In a smaller space, you will have to move more slowly to be able to stay in motion, or take the game to the park where you have a ton of room to keep moving. Staying in motion will help him organize without relying on deceleration.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!!!
OMG, I bet you end up in someone else’s TikTok doing crazy things at the park LOL!!!
Good clicks on the lead with the head game. He is a little better on the right turns (maybe because you did them 2nd or maybe because he is a righty). He was REALLY good when you started him sideways to the wing after :23.
One thing I noticed with his head turns here is that he is GREAT turning his head after the wing… so now we will shape our way to getting him to turning his head before the wing. By the end of the video, he was already starting to do it 🙂 So a couple of ideas for you:
– start each session with him sideways so you can ‘flick’ him away to get the head turn before the wing, and start him turning to his right (after a couple of reps you can switch to a left turn).
– change the reinforcement to further make the head turn before the wing exciting 🙂 Your cookie toss placement at 1:05 and 1:13, for example, was PERFECT. So to get him wanting to turn his head more, you can use a toy and run to where you tossed the cookies, so he can chase your for the toy 🙂 It would be: send from your left side, click the head turn, then you do a FC and run to where you tossed the treats here and give him the tug from your right hand (just don’t run into the swings or any playground equipment :))I see below this video that you say he is more food driven than toy driven, so you can modify that reinforcement to be you running then throwing the cookie, if you think it will have more value than a tug toy. I mean, food is life for me too, so I can totally relate LOL!
On the moving target games, I can see that he is looking up at your hand on the release and was getting better and better by the end of the session in terms of looking down at your toy. So you can keep going with that… or we can use food rewards to get the behavior faster 🙂 Do you have a lotus ball or treat hugger? You can put food in those and tie them to a line for him to focus on. Or you can use a plastic bowl on a line with some cream cheese in it 🙂 We can train the forward focus on the toy, but the food rewards will get him there faster because he will really want those 🙂
He did great with the jumping distractions! You were hilarious! He seemed to read it as a game, not as pressure so he was game to keep doing it even though you were being strange LOL!!! Plus, the high rate of reinforcement helps him a lot.
He is ready for the zig zags!
I see the organizers below, be right back with ideas for those 🙂
TracyHi!
I like what she is doing with the moving target in terms of form! In fact, you can definitely add to this game by raising the bar a little 🙂 The low bar went well, so maybe raise it a notch or two next time and see how she does. She is going to want to rush and if she touches the bar, you can pull the toy out and give her a cookie instead as a bit of feedback 🙂 If she keep the bar up? Toy party time! That can also serve as part of the jumoing distraction foundation 🙂
The motion override sits are also going well – you can see there is a slight delay in her response to the sit (especially compared to the down) because in the sitm she has to organize her hind end differently. As a Border Collie, the down is very easy for her LOL! So keep working the sit so that she gets faster at organizing her bum 🙂
You can also move on to the zig zag foundations and the organizer games!
Great job 🙂
TracyHi!
Yes, it is fine to post a couple of games at once, then slow the training down when we get more into the actual jumping.
>>Also, it is my understanding that we can combine everything in one day provided we are not adding jump bars, correct?
Because the games still have quite a workout to them, I would not do all of things in one day because she will get fatigued even without jump bars (those sits games are harder on the dog than they look!). And if she fatigues, she will lose form for the games later in the day and that can carry over into fatigue/soreness the next day too. So, spread them out so she does one or two things a day, then something else the next day, building in rest days in between as the bars get added.
>>Maggie has a “U” neck and her shoulders are rough (meaning up high, they do not lay back). I do not know if this will make is tougher for her to keep her head down. when she swims she carries it up high.
The moving target will help her keep her head down – placement of reward will be key for her (and everyone) on these games – if the reward comes from your hand up high, she will lift her head too much. I think she looked really good here! Her head position is what we want even when you are running, so the moving target will be effective. Super!! My only suggestion is to make sure she starts and stops on a stop with no ice, so she doesn’t slip as she gets moving or decelerates to stop.
The motion override also looks really strong – her sits looked fast and tight! Yay! She had one rep where she went into a down, sorta – but that might have been more that you were not looking at her on that one and you were looking at her on the others? So you can take 2 approaches to the next session:
– yes, add more motion but look at her when you cue the sit
– also, dial back your motion and *don’t* look at her when you cue the sit 🙂 Lack of connection is a good distraction and it is something the dogs see on course (they have to organize to jump while we disconnect for blinds) but you don’t want to add a lot of motion to it til she can do it without a lot of motion.>>Do you want us to start zig zags now or do you want better organizer foundation before we start the ZZs?
You can move into the zig zags now! Those don’t use the organizer platforms, so I think she is ready for those. And the organizer games can start when she is doing well with steps 1 and 2 of the organizers as well.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>I did make an edit to the earlier post so maybe that changes how you see it from your end?
It is possible that something didn’t refresh quite right, but it is also possible that I scrolled right past it due to my 3:15am wake up to get to the airport. It is likely not something you did on your end 🙂
The moving target looks really strong, he is moving just how we want him to. When you bring this to the grids, you can lead uot even more so you are a solid feet feet ahead of him when he lands from the 2nd jump of the grid (the joys of such a good stay – you can lead out as far as you want!) He looks excited by this but is also not losing any organization: perfect! This game can now be moved to the zig zags.
Good job refreshing the lead with the head game – even way back in MaxPup, he was great at this and it helped translate things into great turns on course (he has aleays been a great turner too!) His leading through the head here was translating to a nice bend of the body, which is exactly what we want. I use this on a wing as a warm up during trials (using a wing of the practice jump) to get that lovely bending going.
He is also doing well with the sits! I think the only suggestion here is to have you stand up – having him look up more will help the tight sits by raising his head (which is the advice I get from the conditioning people LOL!) plus it is easier on your back. When you were fully upright after about 1:12, he was organizing better! It is also possible that the pressure of leaning over was backing him off a little, thus the less clear sits then when you were standing up.
You had some around the clock approaches happening here too, he did really well setting up his hind end!! For the next session. start with a couple of around the clock approaches to the donut puzzle box 🙂 as a bit of a warm up & reminder, then move the session to the longer plank to prep for the next steps.
Great job! Let me know how it goes!
TracyHi!
She looks strong in both directions here! I think maybe she is a righty because the right turns looked ever so slightly easier? But the left turns looked good too – she is definitely leading with her head! You can bring this game to a wing outside too, so she doesn’t try to fit between the 2 uprights LOL!
If you’ve tried a bit of the other foundations, you can start the organizers and zig zag games.
Great job!
TracyHi!
The jump proofing video looked great and also, it was hilarious. You were doing crazy things and I don’t think he ever changed expressions at all LOL! Good boy! You can revisit this there and there using gradually higher bars. And if he does knock a bar somewhere (in this game or in sequencing or at a trial), take a note about what was happening when he touched it. That way you can find patterns and work on them in this silly game 🙂 I don’t recall any particular jumping questions from him so it is possible you won’t find any patterns.
He did really well on the motion override – you were able to get a good amount of motion going and he was responding correctly every time. Super!! So many dogs can’t process the sit cue when the handler is moving faster, so he gets a big gold star for that! With more of your motion, the latency was higher which tells us a bit about processing time with the motion distraction, which is good to know!
Also, sitting on the flat while processing the motion, had his knees/toes a bit outside the line of his body – so now we can add the platform work in to build the tight sit into this. The platform and plank will help with the organization of the hind end and might even lower the latency, because it provides a clear visual. Start without your motion to get his organization going on the platform and plank, then I bet we can add it back in really fast.
Great job!
TracyHi! Great to see you here 🙂 and any gumbiesque traits that Coal brings will be very helpful LOL!!
Have fun!
TracyHello and welcome!!!
Yes, Miss Momo wants to be responsible for her own organization 🙂 have fun! I’m looking forward to seeing how she does!
TracySorry I missed this!! I agree that he moves well into the sit on the platform! It was hard to see from the angle on the platform, but it looks like he is tighter than on the flat – on the flat, his rear feet are a little outside his body. And if his legs sometimes slide out, then the platform work will help with maintaining the tight sit by providing a clear framework.
I think you should add the around the clock angles in the next session, then you can move this to the longer plank now, adding motion in and out of it.
Looking at the moving target- this is exactly one of the reasons we work this on the flat first… to sort out what he needs in terms of recognizing it as a reinforcement LOL! “Get it” as the release seemed like a dirty rotten trick to him LOL! You can add in dragging it then saying Get it while it is moving?
But for our purposes, you can totally use your break release because he will generally be in front of a jump. So if Get it doesn’t make sense in this context, that’s fine – the break release seemed to make sense. 🙂
Great job!
TracyYou don’t need to, one less thing to worry about 🙂 you can just step to it and use an arm cue, to focus in on getting the head turn.
TForgot to add: Yes, you can totally use a sit verbal and you should use it as we get deeper into the games.
Good morning! Great start here!
Looking at the head turns: she definitely is turning her head, yay! She had some questions about when she should go to the wing and when to offer wrapping again. We can help her out, because it is not an offered behavior, it is a cued behavior.
To do that, you can be more proactive by helping her with hand cues:
Line her up at your side, send her, then use your hand to cue the 2nd wrap (then click and toss the treat in the direction she is going). Then use a reset cookie to line her up again, to repeat the process 🙂It should look more like the 2nd rep (:10-:13, but with a slightly lower hand so she doesn’t look up as much)
When she was offering multiwraps on her own on the last few reps, she was starting sideways and not really leading with the head (especially on the left turns). Resetting at your side and cueing it will smooth it out – and then it will be easier to see the click moment because you’ve just cued it 🙂For the sits: she is definitely organizing well! I like that she is moving into a fast tight sit, with no adjusting or sloppy feet lol!
She doesn’t always want to hold the sit, note how she pops her hind end out a bit after a heartbeat. It might be that the platform is a tiny bit too short or too close to you, or that she’s anticipating the cookie toss, or both. It is also a physically demanding position, so she might be trying to make it easier (smart dog LOL!)
You can try moving the platform a little further from you and reward her in position to help her hold the sit. If she still pops up, go to a longer platform (which we need to go to anyway for the next games :))Great job!! I’m looking forward to the next steps!
Tracy
