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Hi!
Yes, FEO and NFC will be the thing that bridges the gap for you at trials. And I know there is more and more UKI coming to your area! Yay!The leash session looked fabulous! You had lots of different reinforcement procedures happening – she was awesome!!!! No worries about touching the wing, that is probably just because it was a small space. Everything else looked crisp and strong!!! My only suggestion is that when she comes to you and you put on the lease, praise her while you do it – it was very quiet in that moment and it was hard to tell if you were happy or not. So, use some praise to help in that moment – which is probably what you would do in the ring anyway 🙂
So the next step is to bring the leash play to different places, to start getting her use to it in trial settings. And for UKI, you can tie a leash to it for ALL runs, not just NFC runs! That way there is always a toy available 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>So, we were thinking the same thing. (Great minds???;)
Definitely great minds LOL!!
Just to clarify:
>>>Not sure what you mean by one hit on the teeter? Did you actually take your teeter along and set it up and do a bang game or a low run over or ???
Sorry for the confusion! I would go to someone else’s field or facility, do one rep of the bamg game, and be done.
>>What were you doing when you went all over the place? I do have the 2 places we’re taking classes and a friend with the same type of teeter that I can do drop ins for the sensitivity. Just what would be the next step?>>
The next step is to establish the other games like the bang game at home. That is the game you’ll want to do on as many teeters as possible, but you’ll want to train her to love it at home first 🙂
And you can also do the find it or whipped cream snacks for teeter bangs in class for now- first really quiet ones, then building it up to louder ones and dogs running across it.>>>Today, we had a Saturday handling session and Keiko did nicely with the “find it” while other dogs were running. A new and very lively dog came in half-way through the session. Keiko lay outside her crate crunching ice cubes from her water dish and watching the action calmly. Nice! :).
Yay!!! That’s awesome!!!!!
Tracy
Hi! He was great with his commitment here – he looked pretty darned perfect with finding the jump. YAY!!!! My only suggestion is that you have several treat in your hand so you can click, toss, turn and go the other way, click, toss, turn and go the other way, and so on. By only having 1 cookie in your hand, he was watching you reach for another cookie and that was causing him to watch you more than we want.
Also, by having to reach for the next cookie, the efficiency gets detailed and you have to toss a start cookie rather than just turn and go then next direction. Now, the start cookie is not a terrible thing but because he is little, we want to avoid cookies we don’t need 🙂
So, bu having 4 or 5 cookies in your hand, you’ll get 4 or 5 reps in a row and then can take a break to grab more.
When you have room, add more distance! This looked strong so you can add more challenge 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
Nice list of verbals! You can definitely be using your wrap verbals now and I agree, use the same ones as Gemma’s 🙂She was a Rockstar with the parallel path game!!!! She was perfect with her commitment and as you mentioned, also looking ahead nicely in general. She seemed stronger looking ahead on your left side than on your right, but that might have been a product of the smaller space. Hopefully the weather is cooperating and you’ll have a chance to go outside (and throw a toy!)
To help get her looking forward more, you can use a marker like get it so she looks for the tossed reinforcement and drop the clicker. The clicker gets her looking at you a bit, even with your super quick rewards.
When you have more room, you can mark and toss when you see her intent to move towards (she might be 8 or 10 feet away from it) it rather than wait til she is close to the jump – that can really get her sailing ahead without looking at you.
Great job here!
TracyThis is great! Thank you for the drawings 🙂 I like how you have laid it all out. You might not need to differentiate between the left/right and the La la la ray ray ray – it will depend on the context but sometimes for the la la turn you can just use an obstacle name or a name call. I mention it because it is one less thing to remember and you don’t want to dilute your left/right cues (which are currently the hottest cues in course design, I use them more than ANYTHING else at trials, strangely).
The rest look good! And I am 1000% confident you will remember them all because we will add them gradually 🙂
T
Good morning!
>>
>>With all of the mechanics and words and new games, definitely practice the mechanics and markers before she comes into the session.<< Unfortunately, i had prectised before we tried it, and I still messed it up >>I have gone to video taping my mechanics sometimes (especially new stuff) and I have a whiteboard in my little training area so I can write down a list of all the things to do (and NOT do) LOL!
My neighbors think I have REALLY gone nuts because I walk around, saying the words, training the dogs… but no dogs in sight. Ha!
>>>So, a follow-up question – when is ‘yes’ the appropriate marker? Like, is ‘yes’ appropriate when rewarding at source (eg, when I reward a nose touch at the target)?
Super question!!! I think we can get away with yes in any situation where placement of reinforcement can either be so quick or so obvious that we don’t need to be clearer with the dog about the specific location of the reinforcement. So for a hand touch – if handler mechanics are FAST in terms of delivery of reinforcement to the source of a cookie, then ‘yes’ is probably fine. If the reinforcement is not a speedy cookie delivery, though – maybe it is a toy – then something else is needed.
And, if yes is used as a click… when we need to reserve it only for that specific, scalpel-like use. I am TERRIBLE at keeping my mouth shut when it comes to “yes”, I say it all the time 🙂 So it is really low value to my dogs as it is generally non-informational. When I used it more, they thought it meant reinforcement was available near me in situations where it was not available – and it was causing errors. And it is something I see all the time… we use ‘yes’ inappropriately and that causes errors and frustrates the dogs. So I use ‘yes’ as a general praise similarly to “good boy!” And try to avoid it elsewhere in training.
It is very individualized, of course! But if you watch other dogs work, you will begin to see how we all use ‘yes’ too much in places we shouldn’t and it causes confusion and errors in the dogs.
TracyGood morning!
Rear crosses looked much better here! It is also good for stay training 🙂
Be careful of where you are when you click, and where you toss the reward – use the base of her tail as the line or rear cross. If you stay on one side of the base of her tail, no rear cross. If, at any point, you are on the other side of the base of her tail (even just 1 foot) we want her to read rear cross. So at :14, when you were behind her, she should turn to her left and not to her right. Same at :23 – you can see she looked to her left and got clicked but got rewarded to her right, and at 1:05 where you cross behind her, she turns to her right, then you reward to the left.
Since her stay looked great and she immediately understood which way to turn (YAY!) you can add more motion: she can be in a stay about 10 feet in front of you and you walk up the rear cross line crossing behind the base of her tail) so you are in more motion (and sometimes walking forward, no rear crossing).
And if that goes well (which it probably will) – add the prop out in front. She is in a stay about 5 or 6 feet from the prop. You start behind her – sometimes you walk forward and cross behind, so she turns her head – at which point you release her and keep moving so she goes forward to the prop on the new lead (no click here because it will pull her off the prop). Don’t release until you have crossed behind and she has turned her head – you are in motion the whole time. And sometimes you can just walk forward, no rear cross, release, go straight to the prop.Parallel path – you were still late at the beginning but then got earlier and earlier – like at :22 and after, you were trying to toss sooner. So if she is starting 10 feet from the jump and you see her immediately look at it and move towards it, you can totally toss the reward (toy or treat) as early as when she is still 6 or 8 feet here. She was probably about 5 feet away from the jump at :23.
I prefer to not use the MM for this, because then she is just going to the MM and it is not as useful in terms of commitment in the future. I am not overly concerned about her looking at you now, that will go away as the game gets built up but we can play with mechanics to help get her looking forward as much as possible for now.
She also looks at your hands moving when you say search, which is not a big deal but you can try to wrist flick it more rather than bowl the treat.
When using the toy, you can throw it earlier – if she arrives at or near the the jump and you have not thrown yet, then she will look at you (nothing else to look at :))Also, since she looks at you on all the markers… drop the markers for now and let the context do the heavy lifting. Just go back and forth and toss cookies or toys.
Contact mat – the clicks were good!!! So now… ok more mechanics 🙂 Everything happens so fast here and you were doing something that was delaying the reinforcement which causes her to look at you and even stop at the mat: after the click, you were bending down then tossing the treat, especially when you were using the opposite hand to toss. That moment of bending down is enough to build in other behaviors like looking at you – it is more obvious here than in the parallel path game on the jump, but I think that bending to toss is contributing there too. So… just flick the treats and flick them to the spot you want using the hand closer (not across your body)
Yes, feel free to curse me out about mechanics haha!
So you can just wrist-flick them from each hand and use a treat that will land and not bounce around, like cheese or flat treats. That means a couple of treats in each hand, and the clicker in the one of the hands – and you would click and toss from the same hand.
I highly recommend sitting in your kitchen or living room and doing this without the dogs first LOL!!!
I do eventually use a MM for the running contacts which TOTALLY helps but it is also really useful to sharpen mechanics at this stage.
I think get it and give are perfect in terms of sophistication LOL!!!! Good job making sure she swallowed the cookies with her get it game LOL! She had high latency on getting the red ball and hollee roller, meaning she did not get it right away and we can shorten the time between cue and response.
I do that flyball-style, with a little bit of ball wiggling, passing it back and forth between my hands, getting the dogs jazzed up – then putting it down and saying get it. She was good about getting it to your hand but I think if the initial ‘get it’ is crisper then dropping it into your hand will be crisper too.Her garbage can work looked great 🙂 Fabulous commitment! So now a question about handling style: you cued the sideways sending with the arm across your body (the arm furthest from the barrel). Is that you preferred handling style on wraps and spins and such? If so, cool… I will try to talk you out of it LOL!!! If not – then on the sideways sending, send with the hand closer to the barrel, like you did at :12 with the backwards sending. When you switched side at :21, you used the hand closer to the barrel on the sideways sending, so maybe you just like your left arm better.
A couple of other little details:
Keep using the verbal – you had some reps where you had it and some reps were quiet.
Move over slightly so she can see more of the barrel, you were blocking it a little so she was widening her line to it.Remind me – has she seen a jump wing yet? If so, cool! You can add in the wing to these games. If not, you can transfer these concepts to a wing, starting with the wing wrap foundations and turn and burn game.
Great job on here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Your sessions here look terrific!
Wow, that was an impressive first tunnel session! Good boy, StrykR!
Very nice lap turns! I think the first set on your right hand looked pretty perfect – you can toss the ‘search’ cookie sooner, as you are finishing the turn, so he doesn’t stop and look at you. The left hand side looked less comfy for you – your timing was still great – just try to step straight back rather than out to the side as you turn him away – stepping out to the side makes the turn a bit wider
Adding the prop was easy for him 🙂 As he turns and heads back to you, make a bigger display of your magic cookie hand so he knows where to go: you can have it fully extended and as low as possible, even shake it a little so the power of the magic cookie hand cuts through the draw of the prop more 🙂
He found that prop every.single.time (GOOD BOY) which bodes really well for jump commitment in the future (happy dance!). You can keep moving now: after you turn him away, keep moving towards the prop (like the parallel path game) and reward him for hitting it. I am sure he will.And then remember to use your ‘search’ instead of the ‘yes’ to mark it (I used the ‘yes’ too much with my pups when they were young and so they look at me too much with the yes markers. This has turned out to be pretty common so I am steering folks away from yes as a general marker)
RC on the flat – he has zero tour leaders turning away from you in either direction here, this looked really good! When you do a RC on the flat or tandem with your others, do you stick with the one-hand cue? If so – perfect, he read it nicely here! If you had a cookie in the turn hand here, you can play with doing the cue with an empty hand and throwing from the other hand (you had your search marker here on most of them, which is was great!)
And adding the prop: again, no problem at all, he rocked it. YAY! Plus he was able to find it with you continuing to move past again. Double yay!!!His sit is the CUTEST thing ever! He was not sure about sitting while you were moving, so for now – be stationary while you cue the sit and add movement during the duration. We can add sitting while you are in motion later on. This was a SUPER high rate of success session, click/treat to you – these high rate of success sessions will get you an awesome stay. Keep adding in the tiny bit of movement away as you were already doing (ping ponged with shorter stays) but add 2 things now:
– a tiny bit of praise before the cookie toss – it helps extend the duration and helps teach him that not every word is the release or cookie marker 🙂
– as you move away, turn more and more towards walking forward away rather than backing away. Like you did here, this can be very gradual to maintain this high rate of success for him.Great job on all of these!!!!!!
TracyGood morning!
>> I have always been taught the click is to mark the behavior, ugh.
Well that is not incorrect, but it is not the complete picture. The click and the reward should come as close together as possible (clearly easier with a dog than with a dolphin :)) And, also – you were not just training him to move into a sit here, you were training him to remain in the sit. So the behavior to click is the behavior of remaining in the sit, not getting into the sit. So the click should come later, based on the duration you want.
>>So when he sits, I don’t click until I say catch?
Correct. And with duration behaviors like this, we can fade the click really quickly and just use catch (I think the clicker works best for precision behaviors or finding tiny slices of behavior, and stay duration is neither of those).
>>Are we going to move to a line up behavior for the sit. I use “middle” with Chewie and “get-in” slap my leg with Piper. I am really liking “middle” for tons of thing. It’s a way to help me keep them safe, etc.>>
We are not formally going to do it here, but you are welcome to do it as part of your stay training.
>>Just wondering where we go next. I will work on mechanics. I use sit so much with him he understands the command, I just need duration and distraction. Can I incorporate “wait” yet?>>
You are welcome to use a wait cue but it is not needed 🙂 It is a ‘superstitious’ human behavior, meaning we do it even though we don’t have to. But we add it in anyway LOL!!! The reason i say you don’t need it is because sit means “don’t move til released”. Think about it – when would you want sit to mean for him to hop right back up right away or without a release? So the wait is more for us humans and I think it helps me stay calmer :). I use “stay” as my stand-stay cue and I do say it sometimes just to kind of soothe myself but the dogs just roll their eyes at me 🙂
>>Thanks for all the help, I have always been such a cluts and not super coordinated and then after my big surgery my balance is screwed up too, lol. Has made my >>
You are very welcome HOWEVER you are not a klutz at all – we are getting into really fine details about mechanics to get the most brilliant behaviors from the pups. If I thought you were a klutz, I would not bother yo about it. But you have the skills in place, so we can look at these tiny details 🙂
T
Good morning!
Yes, you were not crazy with that video – I knew it had gone bad when I played it yesterday because the sound started before the picture started. Eek!!One thing you can do with a mat is to tape it securely onto something that she has to walk up onto – I used a one inch tall plastic square that was a drawer from a cheap filing cabinet that I have 🙂 I have a video of it somewhere. The mat was taped to the top so. I got my mat work in but it most definitely did not look the same as a ‘chill out’ mat.
At this stage, yes – time to move this behavior to a jump wing (you can move it to a larger/taller cone but she is ready for the wing :))
Her commitment here looked great – sideways, backwards… it didn’t matter, she was wrapping the cone. SUPER!!! Only 2 suggestions for you with this:
You can add your wrap verbals. Make sure you plan them before each rep because sending backwards might mess you up at first (speaking from my own experience LOL!)
And, you can use your placement of reward to help get you to a smoother reset. She was facing away from the cone getting the cookie here, so you can change placement so she faces more towards the cone which makes the next cue easier: you can easier toss the reward past you so she faces the cone on the way back to you (you engage and then send). Or you can have her follow the cookie during the actual moment of reward to turn around before she eats it.
You can also use a tug toy with this (or any toy, really, because you can toss it). The toys build more excitement and folds in a little more handler focus versus line focus (and a little self-control on the toy too!)Great job here!
TracyHi! I was just coming back here to say you can start with dogs she knows, like your other dogs or any dog friends she might have – distracting but not worrisome in any way. But you beat me to it LOL!
>>I agree about short sessions with the saw motion. I was planning on having her run a short sequence or two,>
When I was working through Export’s teeter terror, I would drive to a new place, get one hit on the teeter, give him an entire fistful of Vienna Sausages, then throw his favorite ball. And that was the entire session. Done! No more reps. It was lunacy, for sure, and involved a lot of driving when you live out in the country LOL! But the results were amazing, he loves this teeter!
>> I was planning on having her run a short sequence or two, then do the find-it game while the instructor moved the seesaw board for a very short time. If that goes well, perhaps another short sequence so she ends on happy? Let me know if you think that’s too much. I was trying to think of a way to tie it all together and make things seem just part of agility…>>
The ending on a happy note is tricky. First, there is no science backing it and I have found that in the quest to end on a good note, we often go too long or push to far, and things slip backwards. So you can do the sequencing all up front – then on teeter moment for a massive cookie reward, then be done. If she is getting, say, an entire hot dog – she is going to end happy LOL!! So then going back to another sequence may or may not work and I personally would not risk it. It will tie into agility very easily when she is ready, because it is already in place at home. And you don’t want it to tie into agility elsewhere before she is ready, because any anxiety about the teeter could bleed over to the rest of agility.
Tracy
Good morning!
>> I ended up going with a diamond circular cutting bit on my drill that I use on my plant pots>>
Well, that was far smarter than kitchen shears! LOL!
Look at him being all silly happy tugging on the friz-leash! Hooray!
After the tunnel with the woosh marker, you might need to show him the friz in your hand then let him see it roll/move so he can chase it – he was engaged on that first rep but not sure what to chase (friz was flat). You did more of this on the 2nd rep and he was a happy dude, knew where to drive to – and it was REALLY good on the last rep when you presented it low and moving.>>I can see him anticipating a throw here. I’m really sloppy with my words because I’m excited about the tug.
Getting excitement about the reinforcement is more important than the words for now – so keep the excitement going and don’t worry as much about the words. I liked his excitement here!!!
>> I do think I can keep building the tug. I may need to attach it to his leash and use a separate frizz with it to throw.>>
Yes and yes! He seemed game for all of it and was figuring out where to look while playing. So a frizleash and a throwing friz. Friz is life!! It can start as chase the friz leash to get the throw, then it can be more and more about the friz leash or friz on a toy. I think one of Hot Sauce’s many friz toys is a friz-bungee so she could tug on it AND I could throw it.
Do you have any UpDog in your area? You can take him to UPDog and do Frizgility. My 2 youngest dogs started in Frizgility before they did “real” agility and it REALLY helped!!!
Great job 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>>EEK! See what happens when I am figuring out something new – I screw up my words. I am trying to use:
With all of the mechanics and words and new games, definitely practice the mechanics and markers before she comes into the session.
>>So, re the ‘yes’ marker – that for me is just telling her she is correct (it’s my verbal ‘click’ when not using a clicker) and will get a reward, not the delivery location or type of reward. It sounds like you are thinking a different verbal ‘click’ that tells her the reward will be delivered somewhere else???>>
Right – but with “yes” being not all that informational other than “we like that!”, we can use a marker to help build the full behavior. If you have a cue for, say, the toy in your other hand – you can use it because it delivers 2 very important pieces of info: – that was correct and reward is over here. So when the toy is on the ground, for example: when she hits your target hand, yo can just say get it and she will get the info that the behavior was correct and where to go for reinforcement. Placement of reinforcement is both the most important and most underrated piece of information for training, so the markers clarify this.
The yes and the click can both build in looking at us or other behaviors in situations where we don’t want the dog looking at us or our hands, so the markers are super useful to prevent that in favor of only getting the behavior we want. You can try to be really really fast with the yes-marker-reward but I don’t think we want to rely on being faster than a border collie haha!
>> Isn’t that going to get complicated with a) trying to remember all the words and b) getting all the words in when doing the work?>>
If we reeharse the mechanics and add them in early, gradually, and consistently – it is not too hard! That is why I am bugging all of the puppy people to be clean with them. It will become habit. And, it is incredibly reinforcing for us humans to see how quickly the dogs pick up the behaviors we want without the struggles we have had with the previous generations of dog – better behavior with less frustration is a big win!
>>A couple of times I restarted her I thought her feet were out of the ladder.
Bear in mind that the restart is a negative punisher so use it very sparingly and almost never – so if she doesn’t enter perfectly, keep going but reward when she adjusts. And then on the next rep, set her up to enter the ladder perfectly.
>>>>I almost never toss a toy back to proof not leaving position. I feel it sets dogs up for too much failure and it is also boring as heck, so I can’t think of a time that I do it. << I thought we had done that or similar to proof start line stays in some earlier courses but maybe I am thinking another course, have done way too many!>>
I might leave a toy on the ground or drop it as I run by a contact, but I haven’t done the throw back and wait til I say to go to the reward in a long time, can’t even remember if/when it might have been? Maybe back in the Say Yes days? LOL!
The ladder looked great! And the marker worked wonders here – you didn’t say yes or click, you just said get it. She never had to look up at you and was able to remain focused on the balanced trot. YAY! Looked great! So keep revisiting this, here and there – she looks lovely here!
Rear cross:
Definitely put this in the basement next, there was not enough room with the xpen there to get her lined up and facing forward.
If she is jumping up at your hands during the ready dance, you can engage without as much hand play near her face – just bent knees and a little bit of chatter because hand play seems to elicit mouthing
Overall, even in the smaller space, she was reading the rear crosses really well (and kudos to you for nice early reward placement AND get it marker.) I think ti wil be even easier in the basement as you mentioned, because she will have more space to move ahead and you will be able to have an easier time getting across behind her.On the 2nd video – your ready dance had less hands near her face so she was less mouthy – and you can actually use a ready word because it is a super useful word for engagement later on inlife, when you don’t have food or toys.
She did well here too! She is not quite as good at turning to her left as she is at turning to her right, but you got the rear cross in earlier on that last rep with a really great reward toss, so she got it. Yay!! I think this will all be easy in the basement.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
He did really well here!!! The sit will be easy for him so we can use it as a platform for planning the session and for mechanics. Some ideas for you:
– if the cheese is sticky, it is probably getting a little melty in your hands. So, you can have one or two in your hands and the rest in a bowl – that also allows you to have clearer resets (see below)– about the clicker…my clicker training background is from the Bob Bailey and marine animal trainers, where the click is a marker that predicts reinforcement is coming immediately. If you click and don’t immediately follow it with reinforcement, the dog will first get confused and then will just ignore the clicker – neither of which we want. You were clicking for the sit, but not actually reinforcing til sometime after that, so first he got confused (:36 an :52) then he just started ignoring it in favor of focusing on the food. I know there are people out there who click and delay reinforcement or click and don’t deliver rienforcement – but I think that dulls the impact of the clicker so I try to get reinforcement in as immediately as possible in any situation. If the reinforcement is delayed, I will use a different marker.
We ideally want the clicker to predict reinforcement coming as instantly as possible, and because the goal here was more duration, you can change the timing of the click to mark the end of the duration that immediately precedes the cookie toss. So if you are going to want to reinforce him for holding the sit while you take 3 steps away, do it like this:
cue the sit, take the 3 steps, click, mark and toss the treat. You will be able to quickly fade the clicker too! That willl help keep the clicker as a sharp tool for training while precenting any confusion about when reinforcement is coming.And he was having trouble finding the cookies sometimes or being ready for the sit – I think you can slow down the process to increase success, no need to instantly cue the next sit. So, call him to you, get engagement, cue a sit – then after whatever pre-determined duration you want, click and toss the treat back to him so he can clearly see it (bounce it off his feet, if needed :)). Then wait for him to get it (and if he can’t find it, go show it to him). Then – call him to you, engage, cue the sit, and so on. You were cuing the sit as soon as you thought he had the cookie and that can make things sloppy in terms of where he sits/lines up, or if he can get the treat and respond. So take your time! That also allows you to have the cookie ready in your hand (so you don’t have to get it out or take a small piece of it off) and it also allows you to get colder, non-sticky cookies from a bowl in between reps, making them easier to throw 🙂
Let me know what you think! His stay looks good so we can definitely look at mechanics – it is the mechanics of training that are so hard but so helpful 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
