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Hi again!
Left turns here looked really strong – I wonder if the visual of the other obstacles (the jump to the side, the DW out ahead) help draw her into commitment. On the other video, was there anything past the left turn wing or was it the only thing out there? Her right turns here still looked fabulous.
Right turns wraps were great here! At first, the left turn wraps were harder too partially because the wrap to the left is hard for her, and partially because of the distraction jump. She likes the soft left turns! And she had a lightbulb moment about the left wraps in this session too: look at her turn at 1:04!!!!! And again at 1:21!
The whole session looked strong, her only question was about finding the jump after the soft turn on the wing. For the soft turns on both sides, move the jump up a little so she can see the front side of the jump clearly when she finishes the soft turns. Her sort turns looked really good – tight AND powerful but the the exit line of the soft turn (you can see up close at 1:06 and 1:23) puts her on the backside line of the jump and she is very literal – so she was heading around the backside LOL!
The entire last rep was great, a real look into the future of how lovely she is going to be on course. YAY!!!
And yes, poor Breeze! I hope he got a lot of cookies for his supervision efforts 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Skipping the backside stuff to do the fast lines game is good – it is better for her needs right now 🙂 No pressure to get things done, we are going to go until at least April 1, maybe longer if the weather doesn’t cooperate LOL!
And yes – ideally we stop saying “yes” because then the dogs start looking at us, expecting reward. LOL!! The reward markers are better but yet… we all say “yes” all the time haha!
Watching the video – I think it is really great and there is only one thing to consider to help her out. Yes, you were loud – but the choice of verbals makes them sound different enough that I don’t think the volume was an issue.
So looking at the reps here –
All of your connection was terrific – and that it hard to do! Great job staying connected and not flinging your arms around.She had a bunch of refusals so I watched trying to figure out why – and I think it is a left turn versus a right turn issue.
When you decelerated a little too far from the wing or early, she had refusals on the left turn reps (:21, :34, :45, 1:14). But not to the right! You were able to do the decel kind of whenever you wanted and the wraps to the right were not problem.
When you took one or two more steps into the left wraps (:55, 1:02, 1:20 even with the wrong verbal lol and 1:34) – she was perfect!So, she is a righty in this game 🙂 That means for the left turns, take maybe 2 more steps forward to support her for now as her left turns get stronger. That is normal with young dogs and good to know now before she trials!
The other thing you can do is move the right turn wing in closer to the jump, so she doesn’t have quite as far to go away from you when you decelerate.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>It’s so hard to remember to stop while ahead (and I wanted to get some video)…I think I’ll set a 5 minute timer next time.>>
I feel that! Setting a timer helps, or get a puppy. The pressure of having to get the other puppy out for training will help keep sessions short LOL!!!
I agree, he is doing well! I am generally all for shorter sessions, but the looks he was giving on the circle wraps might have had more to do with the difficulty of the skill than the session being too long – try them first next time and see how he does!
On the backside versus front side:
>> Anyway, I think he’s doing well. He does think the answer to a hand in the collar is backside (he did that the first rep when I wanted a left or a right). And interestingly when I first setup the serp excercise he thought the only thing it could be was a threadle so I definitely need to balance my training.>>
Yes, he might think that the setup of your position on the line and hand-in-collar means the fancy, hard stuff and the front side is too easy LOL!!! You can start in a slightly easier position for the front side reps at the beginning of the next session – closer to the exit wing and not as much towards the center of the bar.
But overall, he did REALLY well! You can move forward on the soft turns too – your motion on the backsides is really good. I think you can move to the front-back combo game because it takes out the collar-hold variable an we can see how he processes the verbals while yo move on basically the same line.He did a really good job on the circle wraps – these are HARD, he says 🙂 I think they are hard because it is a hard bend for a big dude like him, and the pressure of your line of motion was distracting. Your line was correct, and that is why it was so hard for him – it would be so much easier to NOT bend. He was giving you a little side-eye LOL!!! But he got it right and your rewards were on time and placed properly. So on the next session, I bet he is less side-eye about it and goes even faster 🙂 And if he is happy with that, you can add more motion and bring this skill into the back-front combos as well.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi and welcome back! It was great to see you in the class last night 🙂
I love his photo – what a gorgeous dog!Great job on the video, he looked great! Good boy!
>>Was I starting way too far from the wing in some of these reps? It didn’t feel that far when I was out there LOL. I also could’ve made better eye contact with him when he went around the wing in some of the reps.
You started off close enough that you were supporting his line a bit, and he did really nicely with that! And then by the end, you were getting way ahead which is also great. This MaxPup Superstars class allowed us to add in getting the handlers waaay ahead – because a lot of young dogs struggle with that and go into chase-mode (skipping the jump or knocking the bar). He was perfect – the right balance of “go fast” with finding the jump and good form! YAY!
He seemed happy with the amount of connection, he didn’t seem to have any questions and didn’t look at you or make any mistakes. Yay! But you can always add more connection – it is a great habit to get into especially as the games get more challenging.
For the next session, move the wing further away and do a couple of warm up reps like you did here. Then start super close to the wing and stay at the wing til he finishes the wrap before running forward, to see if he can leave you in the dust by driving ahead of you 🙂 That is an important skill to add1
Your toy throws were generally very good – you were earlier on the reps where he started on your right and moved out of the wrap wing on your left, and earlier is better 🙂 You were a little later on the reps where he started on your left and moved to the jump on you right – those throws were tending to come when he was done with the decision so he was looking a you – keep throwing super early on those, more like what you did at the end.
The placed toy worked well too, but I don’t think he needed it to help him – he was driving beautifully without it. YAY! So you can have it out there sometimes, but it is not required. When you get him driving ahead, you should probably start it with the toy out ahead to keep him looking straight. And if he is happy with that, you can switch to throwing the toy.
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
>>actually getting more snow right now.
nooooooooooooooooo I guess I will stop complaining about the rain, then.
>>I’d love to post a photo of my backyard but the forum doesn’t seem to allow for that in a post??
it does, through wordpress links but it is persnickety about size of regular photos.
The wraps are looking really good! When she had the little questions, I don’t think you were letting go too early – I think it the wing was pretty far away (for a puppy) so she was asking the question of whether the best way to get to the toy was to hang out near it, or go to the wing. The answer was go to the wing LOL! She worked it out nicely.
My only suggestion is to use a reset treat to line up rather than moving her by her collar into position – she was avoiding that a bit, so you can tug, use a cookie-in-hand to get her lined up, then take her collar.Moving target game also looked great! Nice stay!!! It was a nice big hollee roller… and she grabs the handle LOL! Is there something you can put in the HR that she might like, such as a tennis ball? I have a frisbee and some fur in mine. She was lower on the handle with it was really moving towards the end of the session, though, so it might ultimately not matter (and looks like she might have grabbed it on the last rep?) We just wan to be sure she is looking down and not up or sideways to grab the handle 🙂
>>Gonna say that I have never had any of my BC’s that have done jump grid work have the issues you mention in the video. They all jumped beautifully on their set point work, focused on the target, head down, rounded back and powered through with their rear ends. >>
Yes, some dogs did well organizing themselves but one thing that I saw with those was that it was too sterile… and they had a whole lot of trouble maintaining that organization when the handler and/or toy started to move – for those dogs, that is where I would see rushing or changes in form. So this will help them handle the added distractions by installing them pretty early on while maintaining good form.
Great job here! Onwards to the other games!
TracyHello Wendy! Welcome!!!
Yes, be careful this week and then we will move forward full force!!! I am looking forward to more Sassy!!!!Tracy
Good morning!
Both games looked great here!
The wraps look strong on both sides, she was great! She will have even more fun when you can run more in and out of them – we need spring arrive soon!! My only suggestion here is to use your ‘toy in hand’ marker (I think you use ‘strike’?) rather than a “yes” marker, for clarity purposes.The moving target is going well. When the toy was stationary, I think she has experience with that and it was easy to grab it on the ‘break’ release. When it was moving, at first? She took one look and said that it was a dirty rotten trick” and she didn’t release LOL! Ha! She was fine after that, especially on the other side. It is possible that her ‘get it’ marker will be clearer than the release word here? Let me know if that is easier for her.
Great job on both, you can totally move to the next games!
TracyI know how it is when things are really busy! You are doing a great job with her, she looked fabulous in class!!!!!
This is awesome!!!! He is so smart!!! I really like how the minny pinny builds this particular skill. My 2 youngest dogs were taught this way and they seem to truly understand the left/right verbals. I was running a speedstakes this weekend with my 2 year old, and I got behind him on a big line (shocking, not! hahahahaha!) I used my left verbal on time and properly (lehhhft lehhhhft) and he totally turned his head and nailed the turn, turning away from me to his left (he was on my left). I was so happy I almost forgot to keep running LOL!
Good morning!
Ah, the pond breaks sound awesome!!!! And I am sad to hear that there is no more worker bacon. Sigh. Times have changed indeed. And that is so funny about Ginger visiting the snack table LOL!>> I think I have that issue with a local trainer who sets up courses with illegal spacing and tight turns. Now that you spell it out for me, I think I should not take Prism there, or modify the course presented, what do you think?>>
Yes, if you go there – modify the courses so he has room to run run run! We don’t want him thinking that agility is a game that should be played in collection the whole time. At his age, he should be doing mostly extension with some turns thrown in here or there, in ways that he can be very successful 🙂 Some dogs learn to run in collection the whole time if that is what they are presented with… some dogs just get frustrated because they don’t want to run at a moderate pace the whole time. Either way, we want Prism to feel the wind in his hair on big fast lines 🙂 and NOT be frustrated.
>>Do you know Tracy Hanna?
Yes! I met her a bunch of years back down in FL, might be more than 10 years ago! Eek! She is wonderful!
>> I told her my desire to use verbals with the correct rate/rhythm. She busted my chops on being too loud/energetic on my wraps.
HAHAHA!!! That is awesome LOL!!! And that is why I use noises for my wrap cues… I cannot shout choochoochoo or tststs at my dogs. LOL! We all get a little excited on course so I limited my options by choosing verbals that make me calm down 🙂
>>And we had a discussion on the degree of turn desired-from the dog’s perspective-and which v.c. Should be used. The turn was tighter than a 90 , but not a wrap. UGH!! We used a toy drop and the wrap cue. What do you think? I love Tracy. She asks for my criteria and holds me to it. She takes video (Prism is pretty fast) and she looks for dog behavior/cue timing. She recognizes frustration, etc.>>
Yay for criteria! I remember her as being a really top notch dog trainer/handler and a super nice person too with a great sense of humor.
The not-quite-wrap and not-quite-soft-turn is a grey area indeed. It depends on the dog, and the line. If the dog can naturally slither around a jump and turn super tight, a soft turn verbal might be the better option. If they are not able to turn as tight naturally, the wrap verbal can help – it is very individualized and it is something that comes with learning how to run each individual. For example, I have these 3 young dogs: 2 of them would likely just need a soft turn verbals because they are whippet mixes and can turn like spaghetti noodles. The 3rd does not turn as well because of how she is built, so I would use the wrap with her.
In that situation, I also analyze what will create the fastest line on the next element of the sequence: is it the wrap? Or does letting them collect less/go a little wider get an overall faster line? It is fun to dissect!
Do you have a drawing of the sequence in question? It would be fun to discuss in the Chat tonight!!
Minny pinny –
Really nice session here! Hopefully the UPS truck brought good things LOL!>>On the M.P. I really tried to use correct rate/rhythm with v.c>>
It was super nice! My only suggestion is to place the reward for one more soft turn after the 3rd jump, but having him do the 90 degree turn and end up in front of you, parallel to the bar to get the reward.
>And use reset cookies, and start “easy” and progress to “hard” on each side (still had an error on side change).
It was a really strong successful session! The error after the side change was because the challenge is really hard and you were facing forward with no handling help – but no worries, he got it right after that.
>> So I think this was the correct decision to back up and do the simpler exercise while I corrected all of my previous handling inconsistencies.
This little game helps us teach the soft turns including turn away from us, so I like it for all the dogs! And it is challenging enough that they don’t get bored 🙂
>>( did you see the pre-cue handling-arm swing- I did on a left rear cross?) is this allowed?>>
Yes, it was really good – it was subtle, it was after you said the verbal a few times, and you didn’t need it afterwards. You can add in your feet pointing straight, that is the hardest part for the dogs – feet straight to the center of the bar, verbal cue, then that little hand help if needed (I would start with the hand help then fade it out).
>>For practice we did the Minnie Pinnie because we tried one jump and Prism had no clue what I meant (without handling help).
Do you mean the one jump with the turning away? I find that most dogs need the handling help at first because turning away is definitely not natural or comfy for them. As long as the verbal cue starts before the handling help, they learn it.
>>P.s. It is confusing to work Minnie Pinnie with LEFT/RIGHT Soft turns and then work the course progression with the one jump turns using the wrap cues.>>
Confusing because they are both working on the independence where the dog can be turning towards you or away? Sorry!! we don’t want any confusion!! You can back-burner one of them while you get the other rolling, and come back to the other later on. I definitely don’t want to confuse you or him 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Great seeing you at the UKI trial! You and your dogs looked great!
These videos also look really good! Tons of progress!
>>I tried these a few different sessions – most often great results, but I could not use food or lower value toy for the “go” exercises. He’d “go” regardless, but wasn’t interested in anything but the tug he knew I had in my hand. Went once on another high value toy, but not the 2nd time. Just goes regardless.>>
The wraps were looking strong for sure – he was good with his wraps to the left and GREAT with the wraps to the right! YAY!!! I think he might be waing a bit for handling help on the wraps, especially to the left – and of course at a trial we try to help… but in training we can emphasize the verbals more to help him not rely on handling. So for these games (and the port/star games too)… handle less but rotating or trying to be on time 🙂 – just move forward, using the verbal, and don’t turn or do anything til after he makes the decision (Guinness gets to drive the bus here LOL! ). Because it is harder without handling help, move forward at a fast walk/slow jog so he is ahead of you and working the turns. High speed running might be too hard for now, but we can build up to it!
Yes, he was happy to go. Interesting that he only wanted the toy in your hand, so since we don’t want to fight with him or frustrating him, I guess we can use the high value toy for the GO as well 🙂 He i doing well with the turns so I am not worried about the value at this point 🙂
The port/star turns also look really strong without motion (especially to the right, he is a total righty :)) So now we need to add motion.
2 ideas for you:
Add the start wing here instead of just 2 jumps. I think he makes his decisions VERY early and that often means you get extension. So if you add the start wing here like you had with the wraps, you will have more time to give him the soft turn info (15 feet or so) and that should help. Start just by walking forward and see how it goes!The other thing is to change the delivery of port and star so they sound very different than GO!
GO! is big and loud and it was hard for me to hear the difference between Go, Port, an Star on the video because they were all said once, loud, and relatively short. So you can soften the delivery of port and star to staaar staaaar and poort poooort so they are longer, quieter and repeated. That should make them sound really different, which will help him process the different behaviors.
soft right really great too
Using the start wing, you can wrap him around the wing and as you walk forward, you can be saying ‘staaaar staaaaar staaaaar’ and see if that helps.As with the wraps – don’t change your line or throw the toy until you see him make a decision on the takeoff side. If he collects to turn, even a little – big party with the toy! Yay!
I am excited by his progress! Keep me posted on how the next session goes!
TracyGood morning!
LOTS to be happy with in these 2 sessions!
The first session was very precise, nice and quiet, he was pretty perfect on the turns to the left (and a couple of WOWZA moments on the wraps!!!) You were smart to recognize that the right turns were harder in that moment so you broke it down then built it back up – nice! I am happy with how he is using his body here – head down more, better spine position, not lifting his back feet above his shoulders anymore. My only suggestion is to throw sooner on the Go reps 🙂
The 2nd session had a barking dog in the background and he was more stimulated, which is GOOD! He had already been successful in a quieter setting so the added excitement was a great way to up the ante – he still did really well!!! he was moving faster and vocalizing but still able to maintain criteria really well on most reps. One thing in the past was that he would not always put in a collection on takeoff – he was doing that consistently here. HAPPY DANCE! And he didn’t particularly lose form or criteria when you added more motion, other than one dropped bar (you can check out the proofing games I added to get some ideas on that :))
So, keep visiting this one with excitement in the environment 🙂 And you can also move to the course work game which embeds these setups (but do them with a low bar at first and short sequences so he can get the idea and is not surprised). I bet you can embed these games into courses you run in class too!
Great job 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>>I worked on changing the tone of my voice and being more careful about the mechanics.
Yes! Totally sounded good and the reps with the cookie already in your hand and thrown quickly really looked good. Both dogs looked great!
>> The wing on the jump seemed to help. Keltie is still having trouble with the go.
The left/right turns with both of them looked really strong. I think Buccleigh was doing well with the go – he was definitely more center-of-the-bar on those, and your throws were well-timed! Keltie has more trouble with the Go reps, so I was thinking you could leave the MM or an empty food bowl out there the whole time as a focal point. For the left/right turns, continue to toss the rewars like you did here. For the GO, you can trigger the MM or toss a cookie to the bowl. That can help her learn to love driving straight ahead.
>>“His response to being tired is to bark more.” That’s kind of his response to everything. You can hear him “resting” in his crate while Keltie is running :-).
Yes, that is definitely his “thing” LOL! Is there any place he can be crated where he can actually rest? If he is barking, he isn’t resting – and that will potentially make the training sessions harder because he is already frustrated, even before starting his turn.
The only other little detail is to keep the bar low on the distraction jump when you are doing the left/right on the wing, so it is very tempting because it is so easy (the taller bar there might have just been a leftover from a previous course setup.
Great job here! All fingers and toes are crossed for good weather soyou can get outside 🙂
Tracy
