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You are SO RIGHT about start lines going south really quickly 🙂 And I am glad that she likes to tug on her leash! You might not have looked at Week 4 yet, but we use the leash a lot and basically you are taking a high value reinforcement into the ring (leash play is legal in most venues – AKC, USDAA and UKI for sure!)
T
Good morning!
>>So, when I begin to add more obstacles after the WPs, if I just add a tunnel and reinforce that nseveral times, would that build value for the obstacle after the WPs and enhaance the cue to continue?>>
Yes, in theory, it will (as a secondary (conditioned) reinforcement. And that in turn enhances the whole sequence of behavior. And that is how agility runs at trials get really consistent and fluid – the entire sequence of behavior is reinforced enough that the dog can go start to finish without the need for a primary reinforcement.
>>Adding to that thought, just like placing the Remote RFMT farther and farther back from the start of the WPs, wouldn’t adding obsctacles after the WPs be similar in that you would want to place the Remote RFMT after successive obstacles?>>
Yes – bearing in mind that it is a conditioned reinforcement, which is strong but not as strong as primary. I think the weaves need a LOT of primary, instant reinforcement throughout the dogs’ careers to keep the individual value high. So in agility, we have to do both – reward with a primary reinforcement like food or a toy at the weave exit, as well as build up the value so they can be a happy part of a sequence. Agility is complex! And I am also careful to not rely on other obstacles as the conditioned reinforcement, for those moments when the dog pops at pole 10 and runs into the tunnel 🙂 If the tunnel is the highest value reinforcement at the moment in the behavior sequence, it gets tricky about training the weaves to completion and fluency. So I do a lot of rewards specific for the weaves (including in trials) and build them in carefully to the fuller sequences as you mentioned).
Agility reinforcement sure does get complicated LOL! But I love to obsess about it!
>>PS Are ou going to be doing any puppy classes in the near future?
We are currently in week 5 of our big MaxPup foundation class (still open for auditors!). We won’t start it again til late spring or early summer (which is fine because we have a lot of 8 and 9 month old pups in it :))
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Social butterfly is a nice problem to have 🙂 You can take the engagement procedures and insert people and dogs into them! So for example: that get it procedure with tossed/dropped treats – as soon as he understands it with random easy distractions (I think he already has this skill) add in people distractions such as walking by people in chairs, people smiling at him (he is cute :)), gate steward calling his name, etc. Start with one boring person and work up from there 🙂 And then of course you can add in other dogs too!
Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
You are always welcome to post video, of course, and definitely post it if my ideas aren’t working 🙂
I think we just need to jumpstart the behavior and that will help her, then it will all be easy 🙂You might be trying all or some of these, so let me know what is working or not 🙂 Here are some ideas:
– scrunch the tunnel up so it is as short as possible, so it is super easy and also easy to see the reward on the other side.
– place her reward on the other side, making it really visible, and don’t have anything in your hands in case she is looking to you for reward– revisit the turn away on the flat games, for the tandem turn foundation (this is the advanced level of the Turn Away from last week) just to help her understand turning away – then do it on the flat, near the tunnel to warm up the skill, then try it with the tunnel. And when you add it to the tunnel, you can totally help her by using the hand motions.
– you can also start on her stronger side (I can’t remember if she is lefty or righty) – turning to her preferred side can help start the understanding and then it is easy to transfer to her less comfy side)
– start her on the easiest possible angle, so the tunnel entry is super easy and th turning away is minimal.When she understands it, it will be easy to add harder angles.
Keep me posted about what works! I think all she needs is that one lightbulb moment then it will be easy 🙂
TracyGood morning! Hooray for blue skies!!!!!
These handling combos looked great – the dog training goal is that he is able to commit as you move away, do excel & pivot with a BIG toy distraction, then drive out to the toy when cued. He gets a big gold star for being perfect on all of those! Yay! My only suggestions are handling suggestions, and that is really fun that a pup is ready for handling feedback for the dad LOL!
Little ideas for you:
You can now start sending to the wrap from further back, so you have time to get the FC (or blind cross) finished before he exits. When you start close, he is VERY quick and you are a little late finishing 🙂 Ideally, you are starting the FC or blind just as he arrives at the wing. Then soon enough, you will be starting it before he arrives at the wing. Move away and start earlier very gradually, to maintain his commitment (better to be late with commitment for now than it is to be early without commitment).
When you are getting ready for the decel, be sure to have your arm back towards him as he exits the wing wrap, so you can make connection to show him which side you want – then when you sees the connection, you can drop your decel hand in for the pivot. At :14,you didn’t get the connection and went straight to the decel hand dropped in, so he didn’t see which side to be on. Compare that to :32 after the blind, where you made a VERY clear strong connection and then did the decel – lovely!
And (although this will be less of an issue as you add more distance and start the crosses sooner) – for now, try to decel immediately after the blind (as you make connection). He is getting faster and faster, which is great! But at :38 he was going really fast so your decel was a little late (which is why he was blasting past you :))Great job on these! Feel free to make up your own “courses” 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>What is your reaction? Obviously, it’s too early to do this. I’m not sure something stationery, like a Cato board, is the something to do after the seesaw – I’m more inclined to make it a moving toy of some sort or a food toy. Perhaps, later, something like a tunnel where she is moving away.
I think her idea is really good for later on, but not for now. And I agree with you about letting her move away fast from the teeter! Letting her run away from the teeter as part of the reward uses both positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement! For example, if she touches the end of the teeter and we throw a ball for her to chase, the ball is the positive reinforcement (adding something she likes) and the opportunity to move away from the teeter is negative reinforcement (taking away something she doesn’t like: taking away the teeter :)) . Both types of reinforcement will help build the behavior!
TracyHi!
>>If I was using the set up in the video, when she is fresh I would use the cookie marker after the weaves so the sequence would be jump, tunnel, weaves then “cookie”. The marker is after the low value weaves and she is moving away from the cookies when the marker is given.
Yes, you can totally do that.
>>We could work this for 2 minutes and then we could do some sequencing and reward on the moment on the course.>
Yes to this too! But watch the amount of time she is on course, be sure to quit before she wants to quit. Do the dogs get jealous watching each other? You can let them watch which might help them be even faster!
T
Hi!
>>I have been trying to figure out the best way to do this without ruining the frisbee. He really likes chuck it squirrel, frizz and the donut one but those fall apart after one session or so. I have a chuck it saved for our next event somewhere other than home.
Any suggestions?>>My suggestion is to get a disc he really loves… and ruin it by punching a hole in the middle 🙂 it won’t fall apart and he is lively to enjoy it 🙂
Hi!
>>how much do you practice agility with remote reinforcement looking for some kinda of balance since it is harder I don’t want to ruin it?It depends on what my goals are for the session, but after the dog understands the idea – if I am running sequences, I might practice it one out of every 5 or 6 runs?
T
Hi! You totally got a workout here running back to the cookies LOL!
>>She could move away from the reward.
Yes, she was really good!!!
>>She got more enthusiastic as the exercise continued.*
>>*She did slow down on the longer reps at the end, but we can’t really say if it was adding too many obstacles too soon or the session was getting too long. Lesson learned is to do a little less and more slowly in the future.Yes, she was enthused which is great! And yes, I could see the change in her speed. I think we see values of different obstacles – tunnels are pretty valuable, the dog walk is valuable (potentially because she was running across it towards the cookies) but jumps and weaves and moving a long way away from the cookies all need more value. So with that in mind, try to get your cookie markers in for jumps, after weaves, and when you are miles away from the cookies 🙂
>>Ping ponging was effective and I know better how to do it.
It was a fun game.>>Yay! I am glad you had fun!
>>Things to improve:
Add obstacles in smaller increments.>>Yes, with emphasis on the cookies marker after the lower value obstacles.
>>Don’t do as many reps in one session. (yes, I know you have been saying it, but seeing is really believing!)>>
Yes! Set a timer. 2 minutes and done! And you don’t have to only do remote reinforcement, you can work sequences with the reinforcement on you to reward in the moment out there on course.
>>Biggest take away for me was that she was really having a good time. When she barks she is happy and she was pretty vocal for her.>>
That right there is the MOST important thing! We want the dogs to have a grand time and to feel empowered in the ring – that will translate to joy in the ring at trials too!
Great job here 🙂 Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> Honestly it started a terrible depression that can still be a struggle because I just adore Fever so much and he’s so talented. I had further setbacks emotionally after being at the open and Cynosport because I’m still not sure he can ever handle that. It’s been lovely in my brain 😅.
Yeah, the brain really messes us all up LOL!! I can relate, it is all really hard, and being at a big event might feel like things are magnified. An important element of dog sportsing is the handler mental prep game. The science of training and veterinary medicine can carry us a long way in terms of helping the dog get where we want him – but it doesn’t help our emotional state nor does it guarantee that the dog will compete at the level we want for any number of reasons that we cannot control. So – mental game! A mantra about the mental game that I have heard over and over is: it works when you work it. And this is so true. I always feel much better when I work the mental game for myself, regardless of how the training/trialing is going. So I recommend going back to the mental prep steps that you find helpful and working them, or expanding the mental prep toolbox.
The video was a good session, mainly to sort out what *is* reinforcing and what is NOT reinforcing. He is in it for the frisbee, and that is fine – we are all in it for something! (I am in it for the chocolate haha)
The other thing I see in the video is a clear stream of ‘yes’ or ‘no’ about how the leash was presented, in terms of how he perceived the value:
1st rep – woosh chasing it – yes – nice – maybe tug leash longer
2n rep – woosh chasing it, mostly yes, but the friz was also right there or exploding so he was not sure entirely – maybe have the friz in your arm pit or something so he can focus on the leash f
3rd rep – woosh – yes strike – no4thg rep – thrown leash – definite no, called a quick uber – he came right back, good boy.
5th rep – friz only, no leash, definite yes, then he liked friz while wearing leashSo for the next session, pick the one procedure that is most effective and stick with it, don’t change procedures. The value builds because it gets predictable: chasing/tugging on the leash means friz is coming. Since he has told us that the chasing is the biggest fun, stick with that for now.
Have you tried punching a hole through a friz and attached it to a long toy or leash so it flings around like a roller gone wild? He might like that too!
>>I think he did better when I had both reinforcers in my hand but man that was a lot for my brain to try to handle.>>
Yes, but you did it and then you an fade the friz to your armpit or stick it down the back of your pants or something – leash play brings the friz out, even when it is not visible!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! He did a really good job ignoring that chair for the most part! It had cookies and toys and he was a good boy, especially releasing off the start line into the course.
The enxt step is fading the cookies and toys off of you entirely – no cookies or toys in your hand or pocket at all, including the line up for the start (but you can do short bursts of a small sequence for the remote reinforcement, because working with the cookeis and toys entirely out of the picture is much harder! You were getting the toy out of the picture more, which is great!>>rep with toy followed by a mini zoom
The tugging looked good there but it was a hard challenge, so he needed to blow off some steam with the zoom. You can put it on cue and tell him to go for a run!
He was a little more distracted by the 4:30 mark, and then he went directly ot the chair when you said “yay good boy” at about 4:50 – you can mix in reps where you reward out in the sequence so it is not always really hard, and then 2 things about the remote reinforcement – don’t use praise as part of it (or he will think praise is the marker LOL!) abd try not to mark and go to it when he is already running towards it… he might then think that running towards it is part of the picture, and anticipate by running towards it like he did at 4:50 and on the last rep. In training, I try to do most remote reinforcement when the dog is turning away or moving away from it to avoid that anticipation issue.
>>no toys he seems to be unsure about taking off something tall is handing the toy ok?
Yes, you can totally hand it to him 🙂
>>eparate curiosity I was doing rally last night and he loved go get your cookie at the end. If it doesn’t go quite right somewhere in the middle do you still play up let go get a cookie before you start again or just give an effort cookie less party and start again?>>
I don’t know a lot about rally bu, like agility, most errors are handler errors or a training issue. So what you do there depends on the goal of the session: if you are working a course with remote reinforcement, you can fix a small oopsie and keep going. If the oopsie is un-fixable, then yes you can run back to the reward and start over. I try to always give a good party because the errors are almost always mine, even if I can’t figure out why til later when I watch the video 🙂
NIce work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
This is also going really well!
Question – you were using a couple of different verbals in the remote reinforcement moment – is it let’s go or cmere or get it or…? My guess is that you were caught in the heat of the moment and different things were coming out (I feel this pain LOL!!) sp keep trying to isolate the RR marker.Tulka is a very patient girl with all of the other dogs around here and in the previous video LOL!
Her dog walk work here looked good. I think she was kind of calm, so what things make her more aroused that you can use to get her into a more trial-like state? That will really help this concept transfer from training to trials!
And you can add praise after she hits position – you were very quiet so she was offering other things (like the down) – you can praise quietly then either release to continue, or use the RR marker.
>> let me know if I’m correct that I would just continue to build this up to a full run with all of her contacts/tables etc.
Yes, over time, pingponging the # of obstacles before the RR marker. It doesn’t mean that every run should be done without reinforcement in the ring, it just means that you will sometimes want to do a sequence or course with nothing in your hands or pockets. That magnetic ball is AWESOME but it is also obvious and quite visible to her 🙂 So yes, over time, you will build this up to full runs with the reward outside the ring 🙂
Great job here on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! This was all really good!
Turn back – looks good! Catch – looks good! She seemed perfectly happy to stay and responded well to the different markers. So now we can plan for trials – how does she do on the start line at a trial? Separately – Will she play with her leash? You can use her leash with this and it will help anchor her at the start line at a trial.Great job!
TracyGood morning!
She did really well here, she has lovely engagement in this environment! There were some good distractions here, even a little bit of chaos LOL! I think you can add a destination or something here so you are going somewhere – she was not sure what you wanted her to do because you were moving around but not really going anywhere so she was defaulting to an obedience position and that was fine 🙂 Moving from Point A to Point B will give her a bit more context so she won’t need to offer heel position, she can move with you and offer engagement. You can also do this on leash, standing still, while another dog is running as if you are waiting for your run outside the ring.Also, you can do more with tug toys too, to increase arousal like she might see at a trial – tugging rewards rather than cookie rewards or the ball off the ground, so she learns to offer engagement even when she is more stimulated.
Great job!
Tracy
