Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning! The internet worked nicely!!!
Great job with the early clicks for the backing up – you got a lot of good clicks in for backing up without sticking the landing LOL!! Yay! I think he is pretty consistently offering this now, yes? So you can add your verbal cue right before he does it (I use “beep beep beep”). The reason I suggest the verbal cue is so you can fade the target. I think he is looking for the target which is creating the ‘stick the landing’ moments. So, easy fix: we fade the target so we can emphasize that it is about the backing up and not about the target. I think that will be no problem for him.
Strike a pose is going well! Really lovely emphasis on mechanics here, you had a nice progression from food in hand on the target, to across the body, to the toy. Yay! He did really well with the in and out of hitting the target and then lining up the new direction. Food was much easier for him – you can try the food being held out on the other side of you, where the toy was, and see how he does with that (this is a good self-control game too!). Toys were more exciting and, by extension, a little harder – but he was SUPER!! At :55 he almost went to the toy first but then corrected himself and went to the target, good boy! He got praised there but not the toy – you can totally use the toy reward there too for the great decision. He slowed down a little after that and we want him to dive in to decisions 🙂 so you can reward the great ones even with the hard distractions.
Since you already have your reward markers in place and he is doing well with the in-and-out, the next step: Toy on the ground! You might want to start with an empty food bowl then drop a treat in it, and build up to the toy on the ground. Everything else is the same: you strike a pose and don’t move til after he hits the target and goes to the reward.Great job here!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> If this is not the right place to talk about this problem, I understand, and you can just tell me this is not appropriate here.
This is totally the right place! We are here to plan training and use reward to work through struggles!
>>I am working with both instructors to try to make the seesaw positive in class.
I think the focus in class has been operant, as in: do the teeter behavior, and we reward it. I think she needs a more classical/reflexive approach for now (see below)
>>As you know, Keiko loves the seesaw at home and will run to it and do it several times in a row. It’s fun, and she got tons of rewards when I was treating it, so it has high value.>>
Yes – so that gives you a picture of what is possible! Yay!
>>I ran with a whipped cream canister, and Keiko was eager and ran well.
Yum! I would also run up the teeter for whipped cream LOL!
>>! Then the bad stuff. Unfortunately, she jumped off to finish the whipped cream, the instructor forgot to grab the board and the end came down on the table with a bang
Ah, bummer 🙁 Darn it! Terrible luck in that moment.
>> Her breeder was there (Keiko loves her first human), and wanted to try some “jollying” with Keiko as another dog ran over the seesaw. Keiko watched and took the rubbing and excited praise from the breeder, but I really felt she was still very stressed. I’m not at all sure how I feel about the “jollying” routine.>>
Was she stressed by the interaction with the breeder, or still stressed from the teeter bang? Jollying is fine is she likes it but I personally would not have it happening while another dog is running across the teeter (more below on that) and it might make things worse.
>> It’s an experience that has made me very sensitive to a dog’s reactions and emotions. I don’t want to coddle Keiko, but I also want her happy and doing things at her own pace.
I think it is GREAT to be sensitive to the dos’s reactions and emotions, it is their only way to communicate!!!! The more I learn about behavior, the more I am fine to support and comfort dogs that need comfort. It works out well!
>>We have an opportunity to do a Saturday session at the indoor facility, with the seesaw (and others). The instructor wrote to say she has some ideas to try with Keiko. I’m wondering if seesaw unhappy last night, then trying the seesaw on Thursday in the arena is enough for one week, or do we want to give Saturday a go, too?>>
Noooooooooooooooooooo more teeters this week (Thursday or Saturday) til the stress has subsided and you have a plan. And it is great that the instructor has a plan, but hear it first before you do anything with it with Keiko, and when you do it – remember that you are working with fear so the session needs to be short and end before it looks like she wants it to end.
So let’s plan! I vote for starting over in some ways and then building it back up.
Background – my dog Export (he is now 16 years old) is the most sound sensitive dog that I have ever owned, and he was TERRIFIED of the teeter! He would run away if he even saw it in the vicinity. He went on to have a really high level career and a great teeter. So I have a lot of ideas for you 🙂
It is a two-fold approach. Because this is a fear reaction and not a lack of criteria understanding, we begin with changing her emotional response to the noise. (And no other work on the teeter until this is firmly in place)
It is straight on counterconditioning and also pattern games: another dog can be doing the teeter 30 feet away (or however far away she needs the dog to be so she doesn’t get upset) and you can be playing the ‘get it’ game with engagement installed using incredibly high value reinforcement (2 cans of whipped cream, or meatballs, or anything she likes :))
Do super short bursts, and you keep doing it as far away as needed until she basically stops reacting to another dog banging the teeter. So for example – the other dog is running the course, you know a teeter is coming up, so you start the pattern game. And keep doing it til a few seconds after the other dog has left the teeter. She can look at the teeter or flinch at the noise, the pattern game continues no matter what. We are working on classical conditioning and not operant behavior for the teeter noise.
Distance away from the teeter and high value food are your friends here, start as far away as needed so she recognizes there is teeter noise but not reacting to it and not worried. And don’t have her near a teeter that might bang if you can’t play this game.That is all that should be happening regarding the teeter in class, for now. And jollying should not be used in place of high value food reinforcements (unless she has turned into a Golden Retriever, then maybe LOL!)
Separately, at home, I suggest adding more ‘tools’ in her tool box for the teeter, specifically the bang game followed by the ‘shhhhh’ reinforcement of the frisbee. Basically, the teeter is propped up so it is a tiny bit off the ground, you start her at the very end – she moves it, it makes noise, you do the shhh style reinforcement where the prize is moving away from the teeter.
At home, the bang game can grow so the teeter eventually gets higher up.
When she is happier with the teeter noise in class, we take the very beginning levels of the bang game into the class and those loud teeters (no teeter tables, as that is too loud for now). The she steps on the end of the board so it moves a little and makes the quietest noise, and the you do the shhhhhhh or get it and she can chase a meatball – she does not need to remain on the board. You do one or two, then be done with it.
Let me know what you think!!!
TracyHi!
I am VERY glad that things are getting back to normal! Yay!>>>. Turn your volume down
Ha! Nice and quiet LOL!
She is doing really well here, superstar contacts!
But….
>>I’d say she is in trial mode. >>
I don’t think she is, because she is seeing 2 things in the environment that she will not see in a trial:
At :12, before she had to make a decision on the DW, you moved your hand to your pocket and pulled out the lotus ball. That is the international sign for “hit your position!” LOL!
She was also good with her position at :53 and 1:07, but you had the toy in in your hand on both of those.So this was a good training session, but to really get things to be trial-like in a way you can transfer to the ring, you can’t reach for the reward or carry it with you. If she is really solid with these games like you had on the video, you can up the ante here:
You can leave it outside the ring somewhere (remote reinforcement) – close enough that you can run to the reward while she waits on the contact and throw it to her.
Or you can have it well-hidden on you, someplace you don’t normally have your toys, as long as you can guarantee you don’t move your hands to til after she hits and holds position.
Or enlist a helper to throw it to her from outside the ring while you continue to run 🙂She is ready for this next step of craziness 🙂 because she looked great here! Let me know what you think!
TracyPerfect! All body awareness stuff should be done slowly, which is personally hard for me because I am pretty twitchy LOL!!
T
Hi! Lots of good work here!
On the sit stay video – be sure to watch his butt so he is fully sitting, I think he was only half sitting on first rep 🙂 The rest looks good! He has a good stay already, so you can add more duration to this! Bear in mind that he does not actually have to catch 🙂 Throw it towards him and definitely use easily seen treats – I think that was the hardest part of the session 🙂 Maybe tiny bit of cold white cheese? Easy to throw, easy to see!
Tunnels – you mentioned that you have done a few more sessions, how is he doing now? He was not 100% sure about it on this video, so my first suggestion is to see if you can shorten up the tunnel so it is maybe 2 feet long – short and sweet and easy! And when he is consistently finding it, you can add the verbal and stretch it out.
If he is now finding it consistently… name it if you haven’t done so already. Remember to hold him so you can say tunnel tunnel tunnel a few times before he moves towards it. He seems happy with the manners minder now (great job training it separately!) so keep using it 🙂 And you can add in a layer of self-control by giving him treats from your hand for walking away from the MM or cookie plate without you needing to hold his collar.Rear crosses on the flat:
>>So actually the rear cross work on the flat WITHOUT prop I can’t figure out where my video went, but I swear it went way better than this! Here’s where the wheels start to fly off the training wagon. Again, without prop seemed super straightforward for him, but I didn’t feel like I knew what to do here very well.>>
This one had the prop! It is all about mechanics – there were some really good mechanics moments here – the mechanics are separate distinct steps, almost slow – and then a couple where things got a little mushed together and moved too fast, so he was not as sure of what to do.
The first couple of reps on the video had good mechanics! Those went well!!!
When you were trying to show him the prop but he was more focused on your hand, 2 ideas for you:
– if you have a treat in your turn hand: turn him and feed the treat after the turn, then indicate the prop with an empty hand
– and, to indicate the prop, keep moving past the prop as if it is the parallel path game rather than point at it. The turn puts the pups squarely in handler focus, so the motion will get them looking at the line again.One other mechanics thing – at :54 you tried to turn him and indicate the prop all at the same time, so he wasn’t sure what to do. Treat them as 2 distinct cues: turn away… then you move forward past the prop. So it is like you are 2 gams in a row: turn away on the flat, then the parallel path game when he is pointing the new direction (towards the prop). Let me know if that makes sense.
The handling combos are looking good!!! His commitment to the barrel looks really good 🙂 Before you do these with him, be sure you have the FC on the barrel warmed up – you did a FC on the 1st rep, a post turn on the 2nd rep, a couple of spin reps, then a FC at the end LOL! So, practice the FC with eye contact on the new side so he knows where to be. I think that is what was feeling so weird – all the different handling choices 🙂
At 1:32 – you said yes get it, he was right and it was hilarious when you realized it LOL!! Good boy 🙂
This is also a good game for self-control: don’t grab his collar and pull him away from the toy on the ground, try to teach him to walk with you! You can reward with a second toy for moving with you, or a cookie (as long as he will still go for the toy on the ground if you use cookies).
One other little detail: At 1:58 it looked like you wanted a FC but he ended up on the other side of you – more direct eye contact as you finish the FC will get him to the correct side.
Great job here!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi again!
Cavalettis are going well! (is that Rachel in the background? Love her! LOL!) I bet you can add another inch between them to get a little more extension in the trot.As with the other body awareness games… slooooooow down 🙂 You were going so fast here that things come off the rails a bit and he ends up watching you a bit. To keep him looking straight, you can move the bowls a little further away so he trots out a few feet to the bowl (and you can then drop the treat in or toss it, rather than trying to get there before him). The trotting is looking balanced so we don’t want to have him start to rush!
Do you have another cavaletti or two? There were three here and I think he can do 4 or 5 (or 6!)
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I love his toy play here! So definitely keep playing like with you sitting on the ground – but don’t do it repeatedly with the leg bumps 🙂 I think chasing the toy once around maybe twice around is fine, because he stays tight and balanced – but he starts to fling after that, goes wide, falls over your leg or his feet. Since this is all about body awareness – don’t encourage that loss of body awareness, so limit the number of go-rounds and make sure the toy is not in his mouth as he goes across your legs (he was not thinking about body awareness there). You can also work with food separately too!
You can do one or two go-rounds with the toy, then just play on the flat. The let him take a breath… and do it the other direction.
Nice work!
TracyHi!
Backing up is looking really good! He had his head up high in the beginning but you caught that and changed your hand position at about :25 – perfect! Having your hands just above the bowl worked really well!
He also wants to look up at you when you click, so feel free to stop clicking 🙂 You can just use a get it or a bowl cue if you have one. You will still want to mark the behavior – any interaction of feet with the board at first, then mark the 2nd foot hit – you were marking the 1st foot hit, but then when you wanted both feet, he was confused and going a little sideways. So after a warm up, make sure you mark the 2nd foot on the wood 🙂Great job here!
TracyHi!
He is a confident little goat! Because he is feeling confident, I want to slow down and let him offer with more body awareness and less ‘do things fast’ “_On the Donut – he is very confident but there was a bit too much falling off here. We want him to use his legs and core to move onto it smoothly, no splats or wobbling. So, you can help this two ways: stabilize it before he jumps on so it moves less under him, and so he doesn’t fling himself on and fall off. And, you can also have the bone next to it so he can step up onto the donut from the bone. Help him be smooth and balanced – we don’t need any speed here.
He is doing really well with the bone, it is easier for him to use his body to balance on. You can lure less on this, letting him offer more rather than having him follow your hands – he thinks more when he is offering and doesn’t think about his body as much when he is following the treat hand.
Nice work!!!!
TracyHi! What a cute little tunnel!
>> I think if the bowl was further out and treat higher value he would have come out as fast as he goes in.>>
I agree, I am not worried about his speed, he looked great here! Tunnel value looks really good.
Try to use this as a good self-control game too and grab him less between reps. Have him move with you and you can reward him for lining up – but don’t grab him or pick him up. I might have to invoke the Great Dane Rule: you have to move him from the tunnel exit back to the start the same way you would move a Great Dane (which I am sure does not involve carrying him LOL!)
He only had one moment where he cheated 🙂 so I think this will go well.He is totally ready for the you to put him between you and the tunnel to start the tunnel threadle work. Have you decided which word you want to use as the tunnel threadle cue?
Great job!
TracyHi there!!
I am glad you found a little time, it is not easy at all to find training time and be in the right head space. One of the things I see with StrykR is that his retention seems to be EXCELLENT. Meaning: he doesn’t need a zillion sessions, he remembers things really nicely! That is great because it takes the pressure off – no need to find a lot of training time when life is busy, because he learns fast and remembers all the things. Yay!
>>. I am struggling with him being very focused on my and where the food is coming from. Just keeps wanting to look up obviously my timing.>>
I think part of it is his quickness (he is SO quick already!) and part of it is that the activities are too simple in some ways so he can do the games AND look up at you, at the speed of light. With that in mind, we can challenge him more and give him focal points so he looks at you less. I don’t think it is your timing – you are pretty quick already – it is more that there is nothing else to look at so he looks at you 🙂
You can also click less, as the clickers tend to draw the dogs focus to us so looking at us gets built in, especially with the small quick dogs.
Ladder work – I love his passion for work! The first reps where you were just dropping cookies were so calm and controlled. Lovely! I literally snorted when he then trotted through as fast as he could LOL!!! He is the best. <3 You had the 2 bowls out there already as focal points, which is great! 2 ideas for you:
- don't say dish :) Let the context do all the work for you. What I mean by that is obviously he should go to the dish and yo uare going to put the cookie in it - so saying 'dish' is causing him to look at you. Let the dish behavior just be part of the ladder behavior, and then he will go to it and then you can drop the treat in.
- move the dishes a little further away so he has to drive out of the ladder more in order to get to them. In this setup, the dishes are close enough that he can trot the ladder and look at you. So, move them 3 or 4 feet further away so he can either look straight or look at you, can't do both LOL! And since cheese is LIFE, he is going to choose to look at the bowl (and then you can toss the treat to it or towards it :))
When you move the dishes further away, back chain a bit - start him in the last rung or two to trot straight out, then start him in the middle, then start at the beginning. And you can just toss the treats into the dish (don't worry if you aim isn't great, because you didn't say dish so it doesn't mean the treats are in the dish :) And he likes chasing treats :)Parallel path prop stuff - his value is very high and I love how it is slightly elevated! He is driving ahead brilliantly! So on this one, a couple of ideas to kepe his head straighter:
- don't click :) The click is very stimulating so he looks up at you immediately. And the click doesn't have any placement info for him, so he doesn't know where else to look! Instead, use your search or get it (or whatever the marker is to get a tossed treat). That should help get his eyes off of you.- When you are working on him the parallel path, you can give yourself a head start by using your 'search' and tossing a cookie away - so he moves away from the prop to get it - then as you can start walking up the line so he finds the prop parallel to you or behind you.
>>On the rear crosses with the prop I struggled a lot with my mechanics.>>
Well, he was at the prop within a half of a heartbeat so you didn’t have a lot of time there LOL! When you are doing the rear crosses (you had one in here that looked good!) start close to him so he can drive ahead (add more distance between you and the prop if needed) – and be sure to cut behind him really early, so you are fully on the new side before he gets to the prop. He is so quick and makes his decisions early (I love it!) so you will need your info to get in early 🙂
Bear in mind that the turn the new direction trumps the hitting of the prop – so if he turns the correct direction but doesn’t hit the prop as well, no worries – reward anyway 🙂 You can help him continue to commit to the prop after the RC but moving forward to it when you are on the new side.
Puppy leg bumps – followng your hands on the bends here was perfect! You can use cookie tosses to get the straight line bounces over your knees or use two bowls so he has a focal point. This was super easy for him and also he can look at your hands or at the cookies, so we don’t need to add anything here.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there!
Strike a pose –>>without me moving to the reward and Dellin going on the verbal. She has caught on to the “dish” marker and even looks mildly excited about it. >>
Yes! Looks great! And she was also mildly distracted by the bowl, which is exciting because it means food has more value. But she was also super successful with the bowl and the toy – happy dance!!!
>I do find myself lowering the target a little to help her.>>
Yes – – stop moving your right hand LOL!!! You were really good about leaving the left hand in position but your right hand was moving towards your leg too much. You can have your shoulder dipped if you like but keep the arm extended out away, don’t move it. Moving it to your legt dilutes the in-and-out of the cue.
This game is where it needs to be for now, so you can bring it to new places to play a bit. You can revisit this one here and there but we don’t build on it til next week, so keep it fresh with a revisit maybe later in the week, but you can shelve it in favor of your FAVORITE thing: rear crosses LOL!
Handling combos are also looking good!
At the beginning, with the pivots – slow them down so she can be practically touching your leg, more like where she was at :32 but even closer. By going fast, she was staying 2 feet or so off of you and we want her to be really close to you.
Her commitment to the barrel looks solid which allowed you to just think about the decel and pivots. In this smaller space, do the decel almost immediately (as soon as she is done with the wrap) so she has time to collect before the pivot. When you are in a bigger space and add the blinds, you can start the decel as soon as you finish the blind – she is a speedy girl already!!!
>>And she seems like she’s still launching herself at my toy hand. I think there was one rep that looked significantly better and I believe I may have had the toy up by my stomach, so maybe that’s a better position for now(?) Upon further video review, I see that I was using the hand to “guide” her and that was causing the leaping up for the toy. OOOPS>>
Yes, she is leaping for the toy because it is in the international take-the-toy position as you were pivoting, even though you didn’t say strike. She is learning strike but not quite ready for the proofing of the toy position while you are moving, so you can keep the toy scrunched up and on your stomach for now, or in the opposite hand. That way the ‘guide’ hand can be empty. When you are in the bigger space, you can work the full combo so the toy is on the ground and you have a cookie in your pivot hand (or nothing :))
Have fun with the bigger space today! I am sure she will love the tunnel games 🙂 Great job here!
TracyYour plans sound good! And you can totally use the toy a lot now to replace the cookie rewards – he is ready for more excitement 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
Sorry for the delay, I got stuck in a warehouse with a friend who had a dead car battery. It was an exciting morning LOL!!!The videos look terrific:
Ladder work – Lovely! Nice balanced trotting happening here! One thing I see is that he lifts his head at the end (and sometimes in the middle) because – FOOD! Ha! There is nothing else to look at so he is looking at you in anticipation of the cookie reward. So, to keep this lovely balanced trot with a lower, forward head – let’s give him a focal point in the form of an empty food bowl 3 feet or so past the end of the ladder and he can trot to it then you can drop the treat into it. It will also add a little challenge because he has to trot through and not bounce through even though the food bowl is stimulating.
I love your goat setup! It is quite a playground! He is tugging nicely on the wobble board. If he seemed to notice the noise, you can also incorporate super short sessions with craz high value food, like chunks of meat or a meal 🙂 That will help him ignore any sound. He looked really good on the rest of the play ground here – balanced, able to turn around on the narrow plank and confident!
Tunnel games – you can help build collar grab love with quicker releases: one heartbeat of a finger on the collar, then send him into the tunnel from an easy entry. The tunnel is perfect for this because the quick releases might get a little sloppy, but the tunnel is a BIG draw (especially with the Treat n Train) so I think he will like that! You can do it as a quick loop – start with a ‘free’ treat at the treat n train. Then he comes to you, you touch the collar for a moment, then send to the tunnel.
He did really nicely with the tunnel sending on both sides. He was a little distracted by traffic when he was facing that direction but was great with the tunnel even with traffic noise! So you can totally now add the threadle element of it, where he is between you and the tunnel. Have you thought about what tunnel-threadle word you want to use? He will be ready for it soon!
Start line game: I like how you were able to keep moving AND toss the cookie back, mixed in with stopping sometimes. He will need to see ALL of that so I am glad you mixed it all in. He seemed fabulous here and MORE than happy to stay and receive cookies tossed back to him. And he was perfectly happy with your throws too – he doesn’t need to catch the cookie, he can get it off the floor after it lands 🙂
This looks really solid, so you can put this game in front of things like the cone, the tunnel, etc.
Handling combo:
>>. I decided to go with “wrap” for wraps to the right and “loop” for wraps to the left. I have used the cues in turn and burn game and now i was trying the handling combos.>>Excellent choices!!!
These are overall looking really good. What I am happiest about is his complete unwavering focus the whole way through… a plate with cookies, a tunnel, all the open space – and he was a perfect partner. That is the BEST part!!!
>>What I’m noticing is that with the wraps to the left, he is really wide. Not surprising, with what we’ve seen before in his preference for turning right. But I didn’t include blind crosses this time because it seems to me I’m noticing him hanging out even wider in anticipation of a blind. I’m wondering if I should go back and work more turn and burn, instead of handling combo for now?>>
I see what you mean! A couple of ideas for you!
The left turns being wider might be a combination of both the left turns being a slightly less comfy side, and more connection needed. I think he is waiting to see where you want him, so more direct eye contact is needed on that side. You were definitely better connected on the right turns (and closer to the barrel) so we can match that on the left turns and see what he does. To get a visual:
Freeze the video at :58 just as his nose is wrapping the exit side of the barrel: pretty darned nice connection with you looked pretty directly back at him, and a tight turn. The rep 1:20 was good (also a right turn) but not as good as at :58 – you were not as connected or as close to the barrel. 1:52 was GREAT again, you weresuper connected as he was exiting the wrap!
Compare to :15 and :33 which were the left turn exits – you were a little further away and not as connected, so he was not sure which side of you to be on.
With that in mind, on the left turns: stay closer to the barrel and make a very direct eye contact to him as you exit: have your dog side arm really low and pointed back to him with your eyes looking directly at his (while you keep moving of course :)) That will help tighten the turn! You can totally also do this in the turn and burn game 🙂
You can add the blind in as you get further and further from the barrel on the sending and still get a tight turn on the exit.
Then because he is going so fast, you can decel sooner (immediately after the blind if you do one, or as soon as he is one stride past the barrel, so he can prepare for the turn – then you can pivot slowly so he can stay in the decel. At 1:21 you were a little late in the decel and very quick with the pivot so he can stay at your side (especially on the left turns).
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
