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Good morning!
>>Thanks for the tip on small dog handling. I did always feel like he needed something else but all the trainers have big dogs. I had seen something about feet first handling and thought it might work better. I did some Dognition test with him and he actually understood feet better than pointing with hands.>>
Yes, small dog handling is a little different and more challenging in terms of connection. I didn’t really understand it til I got my first small dog and it made my head explode haha Big dogs can see connection better even when our arms are at elephant/giraffe height LOL!!! But big dogs take fewer strides, so timing is more challenging with bigger dogs.
>> did you notice that he was offering engagement before you even took the leash off? And then again when you took it off?
Yes, his focus was great and I thought he was better than in class :). He was very happy and no barking.>>Awesome!!!!
>> Did you have food in your hands? Or in your pockets?
Pocket, the little cheese dispenser in my right pocket. Clam in left pocket. He does check my hand for cookies when I reach for his harness to unleash.>>Ha, he is an optimist. That is likely a conditioned response, probably because of all the times we DO have treats in our hands. My dogs do the same thing LOL
>> No, I was so stunned he took the jumps and I was supposed to give my info to the judge. He was supposed to follow me to the start line. I did line him up in middle to reset for the real start. He ran the 1st run without rewards until the end. I did remember to pull out the clam for the gamble and toss at end.>>
He was a good boy!!!!
>> Meaning your arm was too high? Handling an elephant instead of an Eskie?
Exactly, the same thing you called giraffe handling. Sending him to the tunnel looks like I’m pitching underhand softball or bowling.>>Ha! Yep, elephant, giraffe, all the animals 🙂 LOL! Bowling is better!! But looking at his eyes the whole time is ideal – look for his eyes AND keep running. Easier said than done but works like a charm 🙂
>> How did you feel about how things went?
Awesome. He was focused and happy. No barking. He had more obstacle focus. I got a lot of comments about him and his name. I actually started him off in USDAA with gamblers as I thought it would be easier for him since he likes contacts and could just go with him without a set course.>>Fabulous! And it is great to start in gamblers because you can make up your own fun course.
>>I found a UKI trial near me as I heard that discussed in chat 1. I’ve never run it or at this facility.>>
Perfect! I know the facility owners, they are very nice. And I will find some locals who will be there to help you in a new venue, if you like! And I will be available via the form of messenger if you have any questions or need help with planning 🙂
<< I wasn’t sure what was best to enter. In NADAC I used Intro to start so seems like they have Nursery. You mentioned doing easy things like jumps and tunnels. For him, he does better with contacts and tunnels, maybe due to the handling issues. >>
Nursery will have the a-frame and DW, but not the teeter (and jumps and tunnels :)) so Nursery is a great option! And it won’t be very crowded, ringside, because there won’t be too many dogs entered. Speedstakes is a go-fast, jumps/tunnels only class. And gamblers is great so you can make up your own fun 🙂 I know the judge but I don’t know about her course design, so with the NFC you can totally make up your own courses.
If you are only going to one day – what if you went on Sunday, entered gamblers, agility (nursery) and speedstakes? I need to double check that you can enter nursery and other levels of gamblers and speedstakes – if not, you can enter agility in the beginners level which will be almost like nursery except there will be a teeter. And if the drive is not too bad, you can go on Saturday and hang out, outside the ring, play some games with him, but maybe not run, we don’t want him to be brain-tired 🙂
1st run: you can place the leash rather than toss, it is too hard with the tossing for now. And you can reward when holding the leash, I think his engagement was awesome!
When you were near the jump, he found the line really well. At :47, you were further away, looking ahead, arm not pointing back to him: this turns your shoulders away from the line so he missed the jump – handling error, not a dog error. He was totally engaged and trying to figure it out – and got a little mad when you stopped to fix 🙂
Two ideas for you in those handling error moments (I am VERY experienced in making handling errors, I screw up all the time hahaha):– keep going. Don’t let him know something went wrong, don’t stop or fix – connect more, help him out and keep going. Continuing will help him stay in a good mental state and keep the run on track.
– if you need to stop, use a reset cookie right away because it is your error, not his, so basically we are paying him for putting up with us LOL!!I know that you might encounter pushback because people often prefer to NOT reward the dogs for good efforts and for resets, but I have found the effort cookies (following the handler screw ups :)) and the reset rewards (as well as sometimes just continuing without fixing) have made a MASSIVE difference in the ring. The dogs are much happier to keep trying, while staying in a great mental state 🙂
And when things are going well – reward LOTS over jumps rather than for contacts, tunnels nd weaves. If most of the rewards he gets are for contacts and at the end of the run, he is not going to have as much value for jumps on course as we would like. If the jumps don’t have a lot of value, he will need perfect handling for jumps. Perfect is really hard especially because he is so fast! But if he has a lot of value for jumps, then you don’t need to be perfect and he will still go find them 🙂
A bit more about connection:
Look at your connection at 1:34 when he was exiting the tunnel: perfect! Eyes on his eyes, dog-side arm low and not pointing. He accelerated to the line – it was very clear to him, even with you miles ahead. YES!
Compare that to 1:38 when your arm got high, pointing ahead – he was a lot less sure. I think increased connection will make a big difference.2nd video:
>>He had a good start line and I was able to take him out while other dog ranSuper! Great practice for trials!!!
When working on the DW/tunnel discrimination, that is a great place for an effort cookie even though things went wrong – you can do it as you talk to the instructor to plan the next rep. That DW/tunnel discrim is a difficult handling element. When he ended up on the DW on the first rep, he was correct based on the handling so you can reward him very quickly there (your cue was late :)) He did get cookies but that was for the re-start – you can reward after the error in training and reward for the reset, even if it is just one little cookie for each 🙂
I thought you gave a nice cue the 2nd time but he struggled to commit to the tunnel, so you can definitely reward for the tunnel more! In that moment, you can reward the tunnel and not the a-frame because it is the value of the tunnel you need to build, not the frame, in this context.
>> I had asked about handling the complex sequence near the end so he did it well but dropped the bar on last jump.
He was GREAT and so fast!!! Super!!!! The dropped bar on the last jump was a combination of him moving really fast (yay!) and as he was lifting off, you stopped running and reached into your pocket for the rewards. He totally saw that and looked at you (because he, like me, is always hungry haha) – that is a very common oopsie where we handlers decelerate and reach for the reward while the dog is in the air and the dog drops the last jump.
Only fast dogs drop bars, so I am not sad about it LOL!!! So pattern yourself to keep running as if there is one more obstacle after the last jump – let him land and then you can reach for the reward. The reward at the end is not a precision reward, so it doesn’t need to be there when he lands – having it come out after he has all 4 feet on the ground will be fine and will help protect that last bar – always mentally add one more jump at the end, and celebrate after he finishes the invisible jump 🙂
>>Trainer said he looked good. He was focused and happy. Much calmer than I expected with back to back days.
Great! I think he looked great, and you could work on handling and didn’t need to worry about motivation. YES!
Is the Saturday run through at the same place as the class? we can plan to have it feel like a trial! We can set it up so he does a short sequence at the beginning as if it is a trial, with the reward station (then back in for the rest of the run).
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyAh yes, it might have been the difference in surface! Try at 4’ and see how it goes! We might also need to begin adding bars soon – remind me how old he is?
T
Hi Wendy!
I think this looked really good!
She might have been slow getting warmed up because you were not going that fast and not that far ahead. As soon as you added speed and got ahead: boom! She was on fire!!!
So you can do two things: send to the tunnel from further away and get WAY ahead past the jump 🙂
And you can also start really close to the wing wrap, then run hard into the tunnel so on the reps where you want her to drive ahead, you will be running more to support that.Excellent toy throws throughout – she never looked at you. You can connect more, yes – try to look down to her eyes a little more and have your dog-side arm back more, especially when you were more laterally away from the jump. When you are closer to the line of the jump, the connection was perfect.
I am really happy with how this went! How far from the tunnel was the jump? Looks maybe 4 meters? You can definitely add more distance, going to 5 or 6 meters or more!
Great job 🙂
TracyGood morning!
Don’t worry LOL!!!! The main thing here is:
>> she is not centering her jumping.
Because she isn’t jumping LOL! She is striding at a run. So, nothing to center because she doesn’t have to jump – it is actually a little too easy for her. It isn’t early takeoff because she is not taking off. The distance between the jumps doesn’t fits the running stride to be centered, which is easy to change.
So let’s now ask her to jump. Her form and understanding of how this works is perfect – my only suggestion is to drag the toy slowly before the release, and to be less exciting (you had a pretty exciting body posture, so be upright and dragging the toy as we add bars).
For the next session – yes, bring the jumps in to 5 feet and let’s put some bars in. Ideally, you can lock them in at 6” to show it to her as it will be a bit different, but if you can’t lock them in, no worries. Show her the grid without the dragging toy at first (dead toy on the ground), so she doesn’t try to hurry with the new challenge of jumping. In a session or two, you can go to adding the dragging back in (in a very calm manner LOL)
I don’t get too wrapped up in centering the jumping form on these grids – yes, we try to find the sweet spot of distance but many talented jumpers don’t center themselves on the grids. As long as their form is good, I don’t worry about it because it is possible they are just finding the most efficient style (2 of my dogs don’t center on the grids and they have lovely jumping form).
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyOoh a seminar! Yay! You can use a ton of these games and reinforcement! Make it easy and fun for him, to really pump up the reinforcement value 🙂 Keep me posted!
Good morning!
This is all good info!
How does she do when she watches you run Joy? Have you tried to let her watch you play/interact with Joy, then someone hands her to you and you run Tango? I have done this with my Hot Sauce pup and watching really fuels her fire.
>> Yes, but why? If I only knew the answer.
About the environment – likely a combination. She trends towards not being comfortable in crowds or tight spaces, could be an underlying anxiety about people/dogs/noise. And she trends towards being stronger in earlier runs, which could mean she is tired and depleted later in the day, even when it is quieter (like Sunday afternoon). Plus, her generation was not raised with FEO options and also we didn’t really bridge the gap between training and trials that well in terms of reinforcement, so there might be residual issues due to remote reinforcement and lack of reinforcement in the ring. It is all good to consider while you look for the answers.
Based on what you have been saying – she trends towards doing better when she is in the higher state of arousal that games produce. These games involve choice and offering (smorgasbord, foot targeting, etc). These seem to be more effective than cued games like cuing tricks. So you can try to replace the action tricks with offering tricks, where you can shape behavior. The 2 hand game is an offering trick, the foot targeting is offering, and pattern games are offering tricks too. And you can use your instant focus prop as an offering game outside the ring – bring it with you ringside and use it there to do some shaping.
My guess is because of how you raised her (shaping) there is a super long happy history with these games, so she gets a flood of happy chemicals (<——— scientific name hahaha) when you do those and that helps with arousal state which then bubbles into the ring. Let me know if that makes sense - I love trying to find patterns in the data. When is your next trial? This weekend? TracyHi!
Yes, it is a bit of a busy trial environment. But no worries!! It is Novice so it should be a little quieter.Think of it as a data gathering adventure 🙂 Is FAST a morning class or an afternoon class? Ideally, you would be able to practice her games outside the ring while other dogs are running… but not actually run 🙂 So, a couple of minutes of pattern games, some engaged chill, some action tricks, etc. It would be nice to do that once or twice before you do it “for real” to see what will help the most when you do it for real.
And, for a very first baby dog run: I suggest going in with a plan and start area where you can just start running. So when you go in, and if she looks pretty, engaged, you can take the leash off and wait for a heartbeat. If she is able to offer a bit of engagement by looking at or towards you, start the run! Yay!
Choose a path that is fast and fun and easy to stay connected. Pick a spot or two to reward.And what happens on Saturday will let us know about sunday. Phone a friend for sure! And video all the things.
And remember that this is both exciting and generally unimportant in the big picture 🙂 If it goes well – great! It if it doesn’t go well? Also great! Either way, we will learn more about what she needs to help kick off a great career 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! This went super well 🙂
She seemed to have no trouble moving away from the reward station, no problem at all! Only one moment of attempting to eat the treats off the counter LOL! I mean, it was worth a try to just eat them LOL!!! She did all of her tricks and line ups quickly, and held her stay 🙂 She was funny with the “ready” stay – technically, “let’s go” can be a release but she is very strict with herself LOL!! And she was so funny running across the table at the end – I am sure that is not smiled upon during daily life but it was the shortest route to the reward here, so…. LOL!because this was pretty perfect, you can take it to other places – out to your yard, to the training field, etc. to bring this game to as many places as possible. You can also play it at the trial (but you will still have the toy for the FEO run).
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I think the behavior modification and the cerenia are great! You can totally do tricks and games near the car, but do really simply silly ones that you won’t need anywhere else. She might be associating them with the car so you want to keep them really simple and fun 🙂T
Hi! Congrats on your massive success at NAC!!! You must be on a well-deserved high 🙂 yay!
And I am glad that Promise did so well too – you were cracking my up in those videos, having a heart attack each she looked away LOL!!! Totally funny but also totally relatable hahahaha!
She did really well in the videos and it sounds like she also did really well with the other games that are not on the videos.>>I’m not near as nervous about this Saturday’s FEO.>>
So, what is your plan? What is the site like, what do you want to do? has she been there before? I have suggestions of course 🙂 Play the pattern games when you arrive, do some tricks, do some engaged chill – try to get her relaxed in the environment without also getting ready for the run. And see what toy you might want to use in that moment. For the run, since it her very first (SO EXCITING), I suggest playing on the way to the line, letting her see you have the toy, maybe starting with some off leash offered engagement and then sending her to a jump or tunnel (not asking for a stay, because stays are hard and we want her to have a BLAST).
How many FEO runs did you enter? Keep me posted!
TracyHi!
In the early stages, I have treats in my hands, as many as I can hold without dropping them. Then when the dog is very proficient at the game after multiple successful experiences, you can start with one in your hand then eventually empty hands and treats in your pockets.Tracy
Hi –
>> I had to euthanize a friend’s heart dog and agility dog after a tragic accident and Shelly had to euthanize one of the old dogs.Ugh that is the worst. I am so sorry for all of you. So hard 🙁 especially after an accident. It is hard enough when the dogs are old and have lived a full life, but a life cut short is just the worst.
>>On a happier note I have come to the following conclusions:
1. Being out 5-7 min before our run is our comfort zone.>>Good to know!
>>2. Our routine struggles when it is on a tighter timeline.
Instant focus games will help! And reframing things as a toolbox, not a routine will help. When you are on a tighter timeline, which elements did you feel were skipped or rushed?
>>3. Even where we struggled it is much better than 6mos ago.
Huzzah!!!! You’ve been focusing on it and it is great to see how well she is doing!!
>>4. I need a treat bin by the door so when I walk in with dog on leash and have no cookies on my I can reward removing the leash.>>
Brilliant! Because we are trying to condition a response, having access to the food in all of these moments will help you build that response really well!!!
Looking at the videos – what were you overall impresson of the runs? I htought they looked good. The start jump was always obscured by a gate or something – was she able to offer engagement when the leash came off? It looks like she was able to play on the way to the start line on these, so next steps would be to cue a trick and then play.
The big crating space near the ring is like a giant buffet of distractions, so if she goes to the end of the leash to investigate, you can move further away and then re-start your entry to the area using the pattern games before she gets too close.
I think the pattern games helped her a LOT when she got ramped up by things in ring! Yay! And I was really happy to see the engaged chill: on the first video, you both exited the engaged chill moment into the volume dial with focus, engagement and intent – it was very cool!
And lots of ignoring Teresa! Sorry, Teresa! Not sorry. LOL!!!
One thing I thought about after watching these: you can do patterns and engaged chill and volume dial and leash off engagement games when you are NOT about to run (you might already be doing this). That way, coming to the ringside area is not always associated with the run. Sometimes it is just to hang out, sometimes to play games… and sometimes to actually run. If being ringside is more commonly associated with the actual run, the arousal gets harder to control.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Being outside went well! And doing baby levels outside is great because the environment is much harder!The tight blinds are going well! Being in a new environment with bigger distances is hard for both of you! You can spend time just doing tricks outside for cookies, so he can focus more (lots of good smells to ignore :))
Bear in mind that the bigger distance changes things, so he was at his best when you were really connected, lots of eye contact 🙂 It will get easier as he gets more experienced. In general, I think the tight blind work went REALLY well!! On the big diamond run around the outside, just pump your arms and connect to his eyes – don’t point to the line with your arm because it actually breaks connection when you are ahead and causes your shoulders to turn away from the line, which is why he came off the line at 1:49.
Strike a pose – this also went well! He really seemed to nail the difference between the serp and the tunnel cues! You can reward some stays so he knows to stay, even in the great outdoors (ESPECIALLY in the great outdoors LOL!). Only one suggestion:
You are too far from the serp jump, so you can get closer to it. As you get into position, I want you to reach out and touch the wing with a relaxed arm (with slightly bent elbow) teehee!! You will be very close.
Being too far gets him to come in but you don’t get the 2nd turn that is needed on a the serp
On the tunnel sends, you were in better serp position so you should be in that position (or closer) for the serps too.
And if he does just fine with you closer to the jump? Add motion 🙂Wind in your hair – rear crosses
>>And why did I keep saying “Ready?” to him in the middle of the sequence?!? I must be nuts>>
I think that was partially your way of trying to get connection 🙂
The connection on the start wing was the hardest part. The GO went really well when you had connection, so start really close to the start wing and don’t move forward or say go til you have him on the correct side.
Was there a bar on the blue jump? That will help him have something to lock onto.On the RCs – he is going to be just fine with these, he was able to read them already! When you have a more visible bar, you’ll be able to run more to the center of the bar to set the RCs even more. For verbals – remember to use your left and right verbals rather than saying Go: the Go behavior (no lead change, stay straight) is different than the RC behavior (lead change, turn away)
Find the jump – I agree, this went really well!
A couple of little details:
– Keep moving as you throw the toy so you don’t dilute decel
– You can reward some tunnel sends so he doesn’t peel off it to get to the reward faster, when you send and try to get ahead. I think that is what happened on the one rep where he skipped the tunnel.So now, take it outside – repeat what you did here and if he is fine, add more distance 🙂 Wheeee! And then after then, a couple of sessions down the road outside, you can add in driving deeper to the tunnel so he accelerates ahead of you to the jump. Keep throwing the toy early and often 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
The horse was hilarious! And you handled it perfectly. LOL!! Good boy, Dice, that is a lot of distraction! And I feel your pain about the wing, it is the windy time of year here too, rolling down off the mountains.The Diamond game is looking great!
The tight blinds work best when you keep your hands in tight to your ribs – on the first binds here your arms were a little further away, which makes it harder to do them really quickly. You can have your elbows bent and touching your ribs, to make the quickest blind while still being connected. And you can trust his commitment to the wing more to start the blind sooner when running into them after the tunnel – see him exit the tunnel and when he is maybe halfway between the tunnel and the wing, you can start the blind (while you are running the whole time, of course LOL!) And remember to have the toy in the dog side arm to start so it is shown across yur body for hte reward, like you did at 1:25). Great job with the quick blinds at the end – nice connection and toy placement, with arms tight to your ribs! He was a little wider on the first on ehre, but I think by starting so close he was guessing it was a tunnel cue. He was great on the last one!
The big extension about the 3 wings looks great. As you run these, you can bend your elbows here too and run run run rather than have an arm extended to indicate the line or wings. Connection and running is probably all he needs 🙂
There was only one moment of uncertainty – at :56 you said left when he was near the wing then turned then said go, so he was correct to turn left and you did a good job continuing on even though I don’t think it is what you wanted LOL!
On the jump grid:
>.. He was definitely moving faster through the grid for the moving toy, but I’m curious to know what you think about his jumping. Do I need to adjust the spacing of the jumps, or are we ok?
His head is nice and low, form is good! Striding looks good! What was the distance between the jumps when they were straight? I think moving them 6 inches closer might be the sweet spot. He was landing a little close to the bar but a lot of dogs work these grids like that and it is fine 🙂 So try making them 6 inches closer and see how it goes.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
These looked great! And she definitely started adding more speed, which was causing you to have to add more speed too LOL! So on the next session, keep the slight angle of the jump and MM position, and add more of your motion. the upper body cue looked great, so just add more speed on the line to challenge her. You can start with a jog and increase to a run as long as she is still successful.
Great job!
Tracy
