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Hi!
>>Toys and food are allowed. So just do normal start line entrance without any action tricks? And do the tricks before we enter. >>
Definitely play around with pattern games and action tricks outside the ring, while waiting. Any time you see him get distracted, do a few reps of the pattern game.
Then when it is your turn, jog to the line (no tricks) with , take the leash off and see if he offers engagement. If he is able to do it: cookie time
If he is not, ask for a couple of action tricks. You’ve got plenty of time on the start line so don’t feel pressured to start until he is ready.>> For the run, should I keep the reward in pocket or hands?
Since he already knows you have the treats, do whatever is easier 🙂 then at the end, run to reward at your reward station.
Keep me posted!
TracyHi! BOO on the crappy weather but fingers crossed that spring shows up sooooooon!!
Wind in your hair, rear cross edition:
This is great to work on because it really sorts out the handler mechanics! It was a big of too-much, too-little, just-right and lots of really lovely reps.
Looking at the different cues:
For the GO reps, your running line should be on the outside of the wing (not between the uprights at all) and be careful not to be moving to the center of the bar (:02, :05, :31). That pressure to the center of the bar can be a RC or backside and not a GO. You were closest to being on the outside of the bar at :59 but still more pressure than needed for a GO line. So you can send her around the start wing from further away so you can just run forward past the jump.Looking at the RCs:
The left/right verbals are the way to go, no need for a GO on the RCs because it is a different behavior (straight on the same lead versus turn away on a new lead).You had a GO at :10 then your right was when she was over the bar so she was a very girl to turn right as soon as she heard it. And at :35 you were saying GO the whole time but rear crossed – she totally judged you LOL!
:14 – perfect use of verbal. But physical cue (running line) completely supported the backside wrap from the instant she exited the start wing. The same happened at :27. If she does end up on an accidental backside, have her finish the wrap then reward, just to keep that behavior solid so she doesn’t get in the habit of pinging off the jump and getting rewarded from your hand.
You were getting really good with your RC lines:
:18 was better for the RC but a little L-shaped in the running line (straight then center of the bar) so she got it right but was also MILES ahead of you, left you in the dust.
:24 was MUCH better and note how you did NOT get left in the dust – we always want to get ahead again after a RC not be doomed to RCs for the rest of the course LOL
:41 to the left also good – she didn’t turn as well but it could be all of the reinforcement that went to the right earlier in the session .
:46 – super good!:50 – too soon she was not really past you, so she was like WHAT THE HECK hahaha
:56 good! Loved this one!!Definitely keep working the RCs, you’re gonna need them: partially because she is so fast and partially because course design trends are requiring them more.
Serp v tunnel –
Tunnels are so delicious. LOL!!! I think you need a session or two without motion for this, because she was lined up facing the jump and still wanting the tunnel 🙂
So change her line up position for the session session, so she is past the first wing of the jump by a foot or two (the one further from the tunnel) and she should be in a stay facing the tunnel (not facing the jump). Eek! LOL!!! And stand completely still in serp position, release…. and don’t catch her on the toy to prevent the tunnel. Let her choose. If you are stationary and have not said tunnel… there should be no tunnel LOL!
One other thing that will help is if you assume the position for at least 2 seconds before the release. She has a great stay, so get into position (serp with the open shoulder, or tunnel cue with the closed shoulder), smile at her take a breath… then release. The releases and physical cues were coming almost simultaneously which didn’t quite give her enough time to process. So let her see the position for 2 seconds, then release.And if she is very strong with that, we add the motion back in but as with the stationary reps, she sees you moving while doing the physical cue… and after a couple of seconds, you give the release. That should help her processing and also help add motion!
On the grids – was she pouncy to the dragged toy? I did notice that she was pouncy to the dead toy which made her pouncy one the jumps. If she is pouncy on the jumps with the dragging toy… then the toy is too close. The dragging toy is an excellent de-pouncer and should be pretty far away – when you had the toy way far away on the last couple of reps at 12” towards the end – I really liked those!!! Not sure if the toy was stationary or not on those but having it 6 miles away was GREAT. Your training partner 🙂 has been doing Salo grids for decades, literally, and I am sure the dragging toy concept is, um, different hahaha 🙂 I call it ‘evolution’!
I think this spider to the double at the beginning was really hard for her – she is hoisting her hind end more than powering from it and I think it is at least partially because she is getting ready to stop (the dead toy is pretty close and there is a jump right behind it, so she has to decelerate over the spread because she cannot run through the toy. When you added the jump past it, she was using her neck a bit and probably needs the toy further there too. One other thing to watch for on the spider… set her up straight. She was sideways on these, and also looking away on a couple of the releases, and that changed the organization of the step-in moment.
I agree that Doppler’s distances were a bit big and she was happier at the slightly smaller distances. I also think that when the toy is dead in front of the jump, she spends her time thinking about how to decelerate to stop rather than used her hind with power through the grid (it reminds me of the big fast dogs in flyball: when running to the box, it is a game of balanced deceleration because they have to turn). The agility grid should have an exit that she can move through because the mechanics of all that decel are not necessarily what we want on this grid (the dogs get off balance and are thinking about stopping).
I thought the last couple were the best! She didn’t have to stop, she just needed to organize the mechanics.She is double tapping before the first jump sometimes (like at 1:03 but not at 1:18) so be super consistent about where you set her up – organizing without the double tap is great to getting her on her hind end.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyOMG! Cliffhanger! The video shows everything except the run LOL!!! I think the engaged chill went really well. I totally saw her get interested in the big fast BC! In that moment, the pattern game will be your friend. I recommend the short sideways tosses if you are kneeling, and the shoe version (up and down) if you are standing. For dogs that know the pattern games, it totally becomes a cue to engage with you, without actually being a cue to engage if that makes sense LOL!!! Plus it gives her a choice: play the game or engage with the environment.
That is very black and white for us handlers: either she chooses engaging with the game, and then you can move into the more active tricks if you are close to running or back into the engaged chill if you have a while.
If she cannot disengage from the environment, then we move further away from the distraction.
I think she will choose to engage with you!
And right at the gate, as she was ramping up because it was ALMOST TIME TO RUN, you can do one more revisit of the pattern game up and down (cookies on shoes).
It looks like you had good toy play on the line and good engagement!!!! YES!!!
What happened next? LOL!
Great job 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>> For goals: 1. Focused on the way to the start line vs having to work to re-engage her when I get there.
Try coming in with a lot of energy and play, as if she just won the title of Waiting Outside The Ring Champion 🙂 What is your normal order of festivities on the way to the line? Do you have any magic words, like “ready”?
>>2. Clears the first jump
This will relate directly to goal 1, I think, and you can totally reward it!
>>3. Commits to obstacles
And if she doesn’t, I generally recommend NOT fixing and just running faster with more connection and more verbals and finding a tunnel to throw the dog into (very stimulating which can overcome the environment). You might already be doing this LOL!
>>I have only done NFC with a toy visible. I will try 2 balls in class at home first. Although it is a good idea, she ability to bring back a toy is much worse under stress. We are still working through ball tug exchange in flyball (where I can control variables).>>
Sounds good! If the ball is stimulating, you can have it in your hand on the way to the line and then into a pocket, see what happens 🙂 I rehearse a ball-ball exchange for Hot Sauce, because balls are LIFE and she is best at bringing and giving if there is another ball in my hand LOL She has me well-trained 🙂
>>It is interesting that you have been able to do snooker NFC. I have had judges say no.
I will find out for you without naming names 🙂
>>Also of note, we are first in the height Saturday and not first Sunday. She tends to run better first 16. She also runs better small to tall Sat is tall to small. I will try to find a way to video all the runs and will try to post when I can.
Perfect! And send updates 🙂
>> The week before this class started Lanna hit herself in the face with a bottle toy (her absolutely highest dollar toy). Although she is playing with bottle (and various other toys) in all other situations, she clearly possesses no desire to play with a toy at the barn. I tried last week with an assortment of toys and it was a hard no. So this week she ran for food. She was much happier and looked much better. She ran off once at the very beginning of her first turn but then got progressively more focused. I forgot to do the pattern game on resets round one, but did better round 2.>>
Reinforcement is decided by the reinforced, so if she wants to run for food for now – perfectly fine 🙂 And we can insert more toy or ball play into that so eventually it can be toy. But establishing the behavior with food in the barn? Wonderful!!! I am a big fan of the “get the behavior” mantra and everything else (like toys in distracting situations) can be added in later). Have you considered a foodie toy like a lotus ball or treat hugger? They are more throwable than nekkid cookies and you can tie them to a toy for her to chase around like a toy 🙂
Barn video 1 – some general notes, I thought this was a great session! You had good volume dial/cued engagement – you can be even more active with the tricks and reward delivery (the pattern game is a passive reinforcement style but you can be wilder and running around more with the volume dial tricks, or use a foodie toy tied to a longer toy to swing around).
Starting her down at the other end is clever and set her up for success!
Hard to see what was happening with the line up – did she offer engagement when you took the leash off?
Cookie delivery adding the spins and stuff you did after the weaves was a fun active style of delivery! If you find that it is not enough, you can do the spin then move away from her for a few steps, then deliver the treat.
Was she jumping a lower height here? It totally helped and also she still has some trouble coordinating herself (her butt was higher than her shoulders sometimes) which indicates
How much she is processing! I forgot to mention in the NFC discussions in the class that I always start my dogs at the lower height in competition and then eventually bring them to full height. Good engagement at the end and also I like the “all done” at the end for a nice relaxing sniff!Barn video 2: is this the 2nd session of the night?
How much does she weigh? Depending on how much she likes the off leash offered engagement, you can sometimes consider carrying her in when there are a lot of distractions and a long distance to the Start line.
Looked like pattern games on the start line here after some sniffing and she came into focus nicely! Then volume dial tricks – a bit of sniffing – try running back and forth with the food delivery and that is also a great spot to add in more barking on cue 🙂 if she will do it there
Nice job getting reinforcement in early when you did get her back, and ping ponging the # of jumps you did before reward was available. You can also do some non-stay starts to just let her rip into the sequence.
Tricks video:
Nice off leash engagement at the beginning! Great job with the leg weaving – super engaging trick and a great warm up too 🙂 You can fade the cues to smaller hand cues and then fade the cookies form your hands too!
Meerkatting also looks great 🙂
Next step – cookies in pockets 🙂 And then onwards to combining the tricks with the remote reinforcement!Off leash offered engagement – this is a BIG one for her. Wouldn’t it be so lovely if you could stroll to the line and then take off her leash… and BOOM! Perfect engagement 🙂 She doesn’t have to engage before you take the leash off in this environment, you can just move to a new spot and take it off to let her offer. She was a little sniffy when you arrived in the new spot, but now worries – take the leash off anyway because it becomes a cue for engagement (eventually): “Hey, your leash is off, I need your focus.”
BARKING ON CUE – YESSS!
She was great here, offering engagement and a sit as a bonus. Next step is to add this game into as many different places as you can take it. Any place where you don’t feel totally comfy taking her fully off leash, you can do it with 2 leashes- the agility leash comes off but the other leash stays on for safety.
Great job! Let me know how your day goes!
TracyGood morning!
True, it IS common decency and we are definitely not psychopaths hahaha
Looking at the line up game video –
Yes, she likes everything except the between the feet and dismount section. No worries – you don’t need the dismount, it is just a tool and we have a zillion other tools (and a zillion other games to play :)) So I would keep playing the version of this game where she runs to get the tossed treat then either back to your side or between your feet – but with the treat tossed immediately forward again especially for between your feet (no sit or dismount on that one).That way, this game can be used as a pattern game (tossing back and forth between your legs or from your side in a pattern, with her offering a moving engagement either to your side or between your feet). It can also be a good volume dial game because it can get her running (heart rate up, in a good way :)) So pattern game plus volume dial? Yes please! And it can desensitize being near your feet. And you can add the distractions of the step 2 games to this game as a pattern game between your feet and the stay at your side.
And yes, you can totally carry her in with the offered engagement games of the leash-off games. She might indeed be a dog that gets carried in because a ton of dogs love that! So you can carry her in and play around with putting her down (reward offered engagement) then leash off (reward offered engagement) or a different routine: taking the leash off before putting her down, then reward offered engagement.
I personally train both of those in case something goes awry in the entry to the ring or in case I forget hahaha – we don’t want the dog to ever be a a loss for what to do if the order of festivities changes.
Let me know if that makes sense! She is looking great!
Tracy
Hi!
>>So on the reward for the serp, every time I tried to put the reward on the ground she wouldn’t stop going straight to it. I know it’s something I need to work through. Any suggestions?>>
It is definitely something good to work through! You can start with an empty food bowl on the ground on your left side, and ask her to do a hand touch to your right hand, extended away from your body. Then drop a cookie into the food bowl.
If she can do that… start with the cookie already in your food bowl 🙂 before he hand touch, and use a ‘get it’ marker to tell her when she can have it. Then you can add in toys and such. That will make it easy to transfer to the serps. Let me know how it goes!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Thanks for the tip on hands. I will see how he reacts to me with water. He LOVES water and might think it’s a reward in my hand. I may need a gallon.>
LOL!! I have done this game with root beer floats in the summer heat: when it is hot, if I flail my arms around the the vanilla ice cream goes flying? Well, the dog gets a nice treat and it sucks to be me LOL!
>> Have you tried the air scenting where you show it to him then lift it above his head? Or you can try the mimic approach, where you sniff it first.
>>Above head was anything but chill with frantic paw offerings and attempts to sit pretty. The mimic worked first time I tried. Seems like cheese is working better as he sniffed it when I was putting on his harness with a piece in my hand. After our remote session, the empty cheese dispenser was on table by me and he came up and sniffed the air. So something with more smell.>>
Sounds good – the mimic method and really stinky treats can help. And standing up can help too – the little dude is excited about his food (totally relatable) so you can be standing up to do the mimic, as long as you can still see his little nose 🙂
The Remote Reinforcement Combo went really well! His little happy dance when you started with his front feet was SO CUTE. He was fabulous with his responses – crisp and attentive. Yes, you got some barking, but that is the excitement of the moment. He was really engaged. And I think Eskies can be vocal, so barking while being engaged is fine. I have Papillons and they are vocal too LOL! so I get some barking. It is all good and doesn’t cause problems on course.
Great job paying attention to the marker and also keeping the session short and fun! I would totally play these games at the fun run and at class, outside the ring. It will help us bring it into the ring!
>>During leash off he thought I had a cookie in my hand but it was empty.>>
He is an optimist LOL!!! That is pretty common: they do a hand-check to see where the food is and we are like, ‘there is no food in my hands’. He worked through it really well!
>>I know you didn’t consider mats >>
As long as you don’t have to be next to the mat and pitching treats every 3 seconds while he offers 1000 behaviors…. mats are good as long as the dog can truly relax. And it did look like he was calm and relaxed enough to clean his face! So yes, if you can hang out next to him on a mat or cot like this, and the two of you can just chill… perfect! Use it!
Great job here 🙂 For the gambler’s mock trial… you can use your time outside the ring (before your run) to do some pattern games and some tricks for treats. And if treats are allowed in the ring – hide a bunch of cookies in your pockets and walk to the start line with empty hands, as if it is a real trial. then take off the leash – if he offers engagement: BOOM! COOKIES! Then proceed into the run, rewarding as you like 🙂 And you can also have a reward station set up outside the ring, like you do at class. Let me know how it goes!
TracyGood morning!
For the take a breath game, you can have her up on a table so maybe her nose is more in your line of sight? I have bifocals too so it can feel weird when training in glasses.
>>I think I’m shaping a nose twitch not a breath?
It is more of a reflexive behavior, so when eliciting it with air scenting or the mimic move, she is very likely to be inhaling and not just twitching.
>> My sense / undocumented memory is that she gets right to work after a full body shake. If I see her twitch / stiffen like a shake is coming I stop what I’m doing and let her finish that.>>
It is interesting to note the shake-it-off moment. It is observable and we might be able to correlate it to a certain arousal state depending on what happens next.
On the video:
why do we all say “GOOD STRETCH” when our dogs do it? We all do that and it is hilarious LOL!!!!She seemed happily engaged here! Good ratio of trick-to-reward here.
I didn’t need to see her, I could tell from your response that things were going along nicely.
In the comfy home environment, you can start to ping pong in more tricks. And in newer environments and training class, do the 1:1 ratio like you did here, I liked her engagement a lot! You can even set up a little reward station near the start line at class and do this a bit on the way to the line (and you can have treats in your pocket for rewarding out on course during your turn).You were TOTALLY getting some breathing on the take a breath section here! A couple of them were hard to see on video, you at 2:06 and 2:20 you can totally sit her take a breath. She is not doing deeeeeep yoga breathing yet LOL but she is totally taking a breath and you are marking it. YAY!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I love planning NFC (or whatever USDAA calls it :))
Plan to play some games outside the ring, like the pattern games in particular. I play those separately from any class I need to run, and also as part of the pre-run routine. I don’t start the tricks or volume dial until I am about 90 seconds or less away from the run. So the pattern games are GREAT for allowing her to be ringside and assess the environment, and relax 🙂Part of the planning for the actual run is to set goals and use the NFC to achieve them. So what would you consider your primary goal? Staying focused and engaged while moving to the line with you, lining up, and releasing into the course? The goals can change based on how the weekend progresses, of course – but I find that most of us have, at some point, done NFC with no goals in mind and it doesn’t go so well LOL!!!
And I want the goals to be achieved in 2 runs before I change anything. So if you get the goal in Starts Gamblers? Super! Lather, rinse, repeat exactly the same in Standard. If you get it twice in a row, then you can change something.
To get what I want in the ring, I only change one variable (ramping it up) and when that happens, I ramp the others down. Since the environment is the big variable change, I recommend a full on “just like home” approach to the NFC runs – let her see the toys, let her engage with you on the way to the line doing tricks-for-toys, reward the stay (make it a short one so there are no errors, etc). Then do a super short blast of a fun course, with another reward in the ring. Criteria for the agility behaviors should be easy peasy because the environment is so darned hard.
With my youngsters, I spend entire weekend doing the ‘stage 1’ Just Like Home NFC runs so I can be absolutely sure that they are fully engaged. At my last USDAA trial, all baby dogs did NFC runs with the 2 youngest dogs doing them fully in the Just Like Home mode, with some variables changing as the weekend went along (mainly decisions on what/when to reinforce). All the time spent in the Just Like Home phase allowed them to go into stage 2 and then to real qualifying runs at their next trial, so I consider it time well spent (even though people, including the judge, kept asking why I didn’t just run them for real LOL! Ignoring peer pressure is a fine art).
So if you get 2 runs in a row the way you want them? Change something. Maybe reward later? Maybe go in with the reward visible then shove it in your pocket or down your pants 🙂 But only change 1 thing.
And only ask for obstacles/lines that are easy to do and fast and fun (my youngest dog only did jumps and tunnels in her first NFC weekend).Also, because I know Lanna likes balls – if it is a one ring trial, ask the judge (who is the judge, btw?) if you can throw the toy. Then you can go in with a tuggie and a ball, or two balls. I always go in with more than one toy. At my last USDAA, Bill Pinder was the judge and it was a one ring trial – so he had no problem with me throwing the ball as a reward 🙂
And maybe by the end of Saturday, she will say she is relaxed in the environment and you can do starters jumpers for realz. Or not – it is fine either way, because we have bigger dreams for her than a local starters jumpers 🙂
If you do a class for real, then the next class should definitely be NFC just to keep things balanced. And if there is an error in the ring, like she runs past a jump or goes off course – just keep running like it was part of your plan LOL!
On Sunday – I am pretty sure you can do Starters Snooker NFC because I have done it that way a few times, no problem 🙂 Just make up a fast, fun course in your time. Snooker is generally a terrible class for baby dogs so I just do it NFC forever and ever.
And same with Biathlon jumpers – just like home, fast and fun!
And if you are not at work and have a chance to play in starters jumpers? Maybe it will be for real, maybe not – she will let you know 🙂Try to video everything! And keep me posted as things go along over the weekend!
TracyHi!
Insightful video! In this situation, she is totally saying “this is not how it is done” when you present the toy as the reward in the beginning. It almost looked like you got a bit of trial-like behavior! Bringing her in on leash is a big change (and simulates some trial stress, to a degree, which is helpful!) That is a conditioned response, and so rather than frustrate her, we can go with it:
Bring her in on leash, take the leash off and when she offers looking at you (which she did perfectly here at :24) when the leash comes off: cookie time (the cookie can be in your pocket).
Then after the cookie moment, you can bring the toy out and carry on with your other training plans 🙂 She did get on the toy when she realized it was a play session and then ran the sequence really well!You can add the leash into every time you bring her into the training area: leash on, to the start jump, leash off, cookie for looking at you… then back to your regularly scheduled plan. The goal is to change her conditioned response in that moment. You’ll know you are making progress when you pick up the agility leash in the house and she starts to get really excited 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense!!
TracyHi!
The leash on the ground does totally help you stay on a better line!
This leash line was in position 2 (center of the bar) and she doesn’t really understand it yet from center of the bar. When she got it right, she was getting it off an arm cue and a little step like at :08 :32 1:28 on the first video and and :07, :18 , 1:29 on the 2nd. The physical cues are small but they are still there – and when they are not there, she is a lot less successful. That means we can help build better understanding of the verbal:To get better understanding, put the leash line in position 1 with the line of the leash going to where the wing meets the bar. And have her next to you, holding her collar, say the verbal a few times then let go and move straight forward up the line. That can totally help! It is easier but not too easy.
She is beginning to understand that there is a backside opportunity, like at :54 on the first video, and also at :29 on the 2nd video when you had a good line up and the verbal starting early.
Position 1 is more like the line you moved along at 1:13 on the 2nd video, that worked really nicely!
One other idea, especially as you work on the hard stuff like this skill:
Be sure to give her reset/line up cookies for lining up at your side before you take her collar to start the next reps so the overall rate of reinforcement doesn’t drop too low and to keep her happy to keep coming back to try again.Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyAwesome update!!!! Looks like an amazing event so far in a gorgeous facility.
Good boy Fever with his pattern games and chill!!! 13 seconds of chill on tape is a dramatic amount of time – there was a lot of activity in the area. Yay!!
Have fun and keep me posted!
TracyHi!
At this stage of the line up game, there is a lot of running back and forth and into position so it would be hard to hold the leash. For now, let him run a bit wild and without the leash (at home). We will be narrowing the behavior and adding the leash soon 🙂
Tracy
