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Good morning and welcome!!
>>We’ve been working on verbals, but they seem to decline at the few trials. Mostly that’s because I don’t think on my feet fast enough to use them consistently/correctly. I’m looking forward to improving my ability to get the words out at speed and I know Mr. Spot will certainly appreciate it too.>>
Processing is hard for dogs and people at trials! Both of you are working at higher speeds with more distractions. The rehearsals here will help and we can definitely get you rehearsing them at home and in walk through so you feel very comfy spitting out the correct words at the correct times 🙂
Good morning and welcome!!!
Yes, you can totally swap out dogs based on the games and the needs of each dog.>>Is there ever a way for verbals to overcome our motion?
Yes! That is one of the goals of this session: getting the verbals to override body language especially if we do things like disconnect, move arms at the wrong time, etc.
>> should we even want that?
Yes we totally want that 🙂
>>I’m thinking our motion will be “listened” to more than any verbal.
The dogs ‘listen’ to motion naturally which is why things go wrong when our motion is not perfect. And they can totally learn to listen to verbals too!
>> I looked at the syllabus for the 5 weeks of this course. Where would pinwheels fit in?
Pinwheels are “soft” turns, which begin in week 2. And those verbals can be applied to pinwheels specifically later in the course.
>And, how long will tonight’s chat last? Winter Olympics is on and men’s short program in figure skating starts at 8:15 Eastern time>
Chen’s short program was AMAZING!!!!!
Tracy
Good morning and welcome to you and the Pointer girls!!!
I’m glad the worksheet is making you think hard about it LOL!!! Clarifying what everything means to you will help us clarify things for the dogs. You can try a different approach – for example, when you say ‘sit’ or ‘down’, what do you want the dogs to do, exaclty, and what do they have to do to make it happen? Then we will apply that same thought process to the turn verbals 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyGood morning!
Great job on this list!!!! The details you’ve added will really help the training.
A couple of things for you to consider as you plan your training:>>Wing Wrap Cue
Verbal Cue: Check, Check, CheckI recommend having 2 separate cues for wraps – one cue indicates wrapping to his left, one indicates wrapping to his right. That will create even more independence and he can process sooner/faster, because he won’t need to see where you are before driving into the turn.
>>Side Change / Turn Cue: Rear Cross
Verbal Cue: Switch
* What should the dog do in front of the jump? The dog should drive ahead of the handler, take the jump and turn on the landing side (handler switches sides with the dog on the takeoff side of the jump / obstacle)>>The switch cue can be more specific to include how tightly he needs to turn – is it a sort turn, or a wrap? If you can clarify how tight the turn would be, you can then clarify what he needs to do on the takeoff side and where to look which allows him to process and execute faster 🙂
>>>Wing Wrap / Turn Cue: Push to the Backside
Verbal Cue: Push>>For backsides, I suggest a cue that indicated backside slice versus backside circle wraps 🙂 I know, I’m being a pain LOL! But the separate verbals will give him info sooner, which speeds up processing of the cue and builds confidence.
>>Tunnel Discrimination
Verbal Cue: Pass>>
* What should the dog do in front of the tunnel? The dog approaches the tunnel, passes the nearside entry and continues on to the entrance that is further away.
* Default Behaviors: Looking straight until cued to enter tunnel>>Awesome! I love that you have a tunnel discrimination cue. My only suggestion here is that you add taking the far end of the tunnel as a default behavior. He can just go do it, and not wait for a cue to do it. So the Pass cue would mean both pass the nearside entry and go into the far side entry 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHelllooooooo and welcome!!!
I will put the worksheet into a Google doc, so everyone can download it that way. I’ll email when I post it later this morning.
And yes, we can look at adding other nights! I’m thinking maybe a couple of Thursdays?
T
Good morning, and welcome!
Poor Flurry! Did the vets figure out exactly what the source of the pain was?
I agree – improved verbals will really help Skye sort out what to do with his body, which will improve confidence too! I’m looking forward to seeing him work!
TracyGood morning and welcome!!
You can train both dogs, pick and choose based on the exercise!
Callie might do better with bigger distances because she has more processing time, so playing games in small spaces can help that!
And thanks for the feedback on the aesthetic, I figured I could up my style game LOL
TracyHi!
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TracyHooray! Good boy! This is a REALLY hard skill and he is totally getting it!!!!!
He is concentrating so hard that there is steam coming out of his ears 🙂 Good boy <3
So now, add a little more challenge:
How tall is the Cato plank that is leaning on the wall behind you hear? I think that is what it is. An inch or so? If so, and if it has a good grippy surface - see if you can have him back up onto it (as long as it is not moving under him, it should be stable). Start as you did with the mat here, make it easy so he just needs to take on step up onto it. When he says "aha, got it!" then you can add more distance.When he can step back onto something a little higher, you can then add a moving surface: a mostly deflated balance disc is a good place to start, then eventually a wobble board!
Stepping up onto something is physically harder, so just do a couple of reps then give him a break.
The only other thing here is that now that he is bigger, his head might actually be a bit too low here for a straight topline as he moves backwards, he is roaching a little. He seems to be using your hand as a focal point, which is great - and to get him to raise his head a little, just hold your hand a little higher off the ground. Your hand looked to be about 3 or 4 inches off the ground, so now try 6 inches or 7 inches approximately. The goal is for his head to be low and below his shoulders but only a little below and not too close to the ground. Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
Great job here!!
TracyGood morning! It is always good to get a little something done with the puppies 🙂 He was a happy dude to be playing!!!
>>And I realize this camera angle doesn’t show the increased distance between the obstacles but you’ll just have to trust me on that. Ha! >>
LOL!!! I will trust you 🙂
This tunnel rocking horses went really well. You can point less at the wing and the tunnel, and connect/move through it more – you were doing that when he was on your right heading to the tunnel (running, saying tunnel, connecting) and he was great! The further ahead you get, the more you will want to emphasize big connection by putting your arm waaaay back to him to open up your shoulder.
Another thing to add in is rewarding LOTS of sits (not just stays, but the immediate sits) because it looks like sitting got harder as the running got more exciting.
>>What should I do next if I don’t have more room to put in two obstacles? Shorten the tunnel to like just a few feet or something?>>
Yes, you can shorten the tunnel up a bit more to make more room. And, you can try to send and leave sooner with the wing. Or, lead out less and see if you can send him ahead of you to the wing from the tunnel exit – that will be a fun challenge!
Countermotion: This is also going well!
A small tweak: start with yourself very close to the barrel, your back almost touching it. That will simulate what he will see when we add in the advanced level. You were starting closer to him, which is a useful skill (and he did really well!) but you can also show him the picture of you starting right at the wing.For the most part, you were indeed on Team Chill and the reps went well! He had a little trouble if you turned your head forward too soon, so as you add more motion be sure to keep looking behind you to the landing spot as you move forward. On the blooper moments at 1:20, 2:34 and 3:33, you sent and turned your head forward before he got past you so he didn’t commit. If you move forward like you did, but keep your connection supporting him by looking behind you til he jumps (and your arm can stay back too) then I think he will have an easier time committing as you add more motion.
And, to keep the commitment strong – throw the reward so it lands as close to the barrel as possible – you did that on some reps but on a lot of reps, the toy or treat was nearer to you. As you add more motion, we want to keep the barrel value very high and the rewards placed right near it will help that.
And with adding more motion in mind… I think you can do fewer reps, all with a toy, and add a bit more motion. You did a lot of reps that were very identical here and with food rewards… so by the end he was very chill and perhaps a little bored LOL so he was just trotting through it. He was in fire early on with the toy – so do maybe 4 or 5 reps with the toy rather than 20 with treats. The skill will build faster with the toy when he is on fire for it, and then he will be fresh and spicy for the whole session.
Decel game:
Looking really nice! Yes, he was leaving the stays a little early (possibly anticipating as you arrived in position at the wing) so do lots of going to the wing and throwing the reward back to him.
When you are doing the extension, you can add in running – he will like that 🙂 And with the decels, be stationary before the release so he knows that it is a decel – at :31 you walked into it and there was only motion forward, no decel, so he as not entirely sure if he should collect or go straight. When you were stationary, he did a great job organizing himself for the collection. Yay!
For this game – use more toys too 🙂 The cookies were a little too meditative for you both LOL!!! A short session with a toy that ends with your both being out of breath is perfect!Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>
I’m sitting here laughing at my inability to visualize the exercise – if there are not 2 wings and I’m not running, I have a serious inability to do these exercises! I think that’s why I get all messed up in the rocking horse games.>>Ha! That is funny! I mean, it was a really good session and she totally read the cues… but they were indeed backsides LOL! You have full permission to do the game with 2 wings now – she has figured out the concepts really well so you can add the other wing back.
This session went really well! She had no questions about the commitment at all. She wants to shape her line into the turn, meaning swing out a bit before reaching the bump. That might be that you are so close to the takeoff spot. So, you can move over to the outer edge of the wing to give her the feeling of jumping right where the bump and wing meet. And you can use a tug toy in your hand now, so she wants to get closer to you and drive in hard to you.
I think that when a bar comes into the picture, she will shape her line less and dig into the collection more. She is old enough to see the bar – remind me what she has done over bars so far? Ideally, we would do this with a low bar “locked” into the jump cups (inserting the the open end of the bar into the jump cup, so the bar doesn’t displace). I like locking in the bar to start so the pups can sort out the collection organization, without potentially knocking the bar. If you do the rental before you Masters class, you can try this with the locked in bar!Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> I’ve done some jump grids with low cars, but not a lot.
Low cars? That sounds dangerous LOL! Just kidding – damn autocorrect LOL!
>>She should be fine to try 4 in.
Perfect! I like locking the bars in to get the behavior developing with having to even think about what to do if she drops. the bar (because she can’t drop a bar LOL!)
>>I was tossing the toy on the extension towards the brand new iPad on the tripod. Not brilliant planning. >>
iPads and tripods have an almost magnetic draw, we are great at throwing things at them accidentally and somehow are aim is AMAZING when throwing at the tripod LOL!
>>I’m not able to move sandbags just yet. So, I’ll so I the tunnel in the off weeks.
Sounds good! No rush on the tunnel games, they will be really easy and fun for her.
On the video:
She is doing really well here! Her commitment AND collection are developing really nicely – on the 3rd rep on the left wraps at the beginning (:17ish) she mad a really nice adjustment by lowering her head, organizing the collection, and wrapping tighter. Nice!
She was shaping the turn differently on the right side wraps – I wonder if you were a bit too close to where the bump meets the bar so she was widening her line to go around you? You can try moving more to the outer edge of the wing on those – that is where you were when you were moving around the wing in the next part of the session and her turns there were terrific. When you were moving along what landing side of the wing and releasing when you passed it, she was not shaping her line in either direction and was nice and tight on the turn (and had lovely commitment).>>I’m not sure if she lost focus or was stressed on the one rep where she ate grass. What do you think? I don’t think I over did it.>>
This was at 1:28. I watched it a few times to see if there was a change in your connection or anything weird in your release or motion… I didn’t see anything. Good mechanics! And she was working at a nice high rate of reinforcement (100% on the skill in this video). So either there was legit something on the ground that drew her focus for some reason (a dropped treat, or who knows what :)) or she was a little bored with the limited motion LOL!! It did not appear to be a typical stress response that we see when the dog is frustrated or worried or getting punished,
She did finish strong on the last reps – did you have a big tug session in between? My guess leans towards that she was a little bored with lack of motion and repeating the same thing a lot. I mean, you didn’t do thousands of reps but I think you can add more motion after maybe 2 reps on each side. Good to know LOL so you can up the ante on the criteria sooner by adding more motion sooner. You were really good with walking through this so try walking for one rep on each side in the next session, then go to faster walking… then jogging…. and so on. She might have a failure mixed in but the stimulation of the “ooh, mom is going faster!” is likely to be really fun for her, even if she is more at 90% rate of reinforcement as opposed to “mom is walking again” and 100% rate of reinforcement.Let me know if that makes sense! It is pretty fun to have her want to have more action 🙂 How did Gemma do on the decel game with the bar?
Nice work here 🙂
TracyGood morning!
>>Changing the Yes Marker is not going to happen. I am very aware when on course to not sure it at inappropriate times, and if I do I fully expect the dog to leave what they are doing and come towards me.>>
Totally understandable that changing it is not going to happen 🙂 In theory, I never ever say it on course. In reality, I say it more than I ever realize LOL! I think the confusion about coming to us or staying on the line only happens when they are young – as soon as they get some experienced, they say “oh, she said it again but she wants me to keep going” LOL!!!
>>It was actually a fitness prop that we had just worked on rather than the bed that he was being drawn to on the one end. About 1/2 way through the session I went and relocated it. Lol.>>
ha! Good boy! And it will make for a nice discrimination game in the training room 🙂
On the video:
HOORAY FOR AN ENTIRE SESSION WITH A TOY! HAPPY DANCE!VERY smart training to get him rolling with the flirt pole and yes, he loved it!!! Chasing it was fun for him and there was no pressure of you having to lean over with a smaller toy.
And heck yes, you need a 3rd arm to work with the flirt pole but it is totally worth it – his speed and engagement looked amazing! He has always been fast on this game, but the toy play took him to being explosive – very cool to see here. Yay baby dog!
The hardest part of using it looked to be getting connection on the left turn exits while also holding the flirt pole. He was driving a little wide here because he couldn’t entirely see your connection/side info, because you were holding the flirt pole. You sorted it out, though, and nailed it at 1:32ish – your left shoulder was back, he could see the connection, and had a great turn (it looks like it was easier on the right turn exits, wing further from the camera). And then when you went to the smaller toy – gorgeous work, MUCH easier to make the connections and move on those last 2 reps. YAY!!!
The other challenge for him with the toy is him learning to ignore it til asked to get it – we want to balance the self-control of that with continuing to build up the toy play like you’ve been doing, so with the flirt pole: you can do simple reps like send to one wing, with the toy kind of dangling right there. He will quickly figure out that in order to get the beloved flirt pole to move, he needs to ignore it and drive to the wing. Then the process can be expanded into a couple of wraps in a row with the rocking horses with the flirt pole right there and then do the same with the regular toy. By doing that, you will have an easier time holding the toys – they can be visible and dangling a bit and he can ignore them. It looked like part of the question with the flirt pole in particular was that he REALLY wanted it and when it ws very visible, he had a harder time leaving it for the wing… but you can’t exactly scrunch it up in your hand 🙂 and it is hard to move with it behind your back LOL! So, up-close and easy sends with it very visible will help solve that and make the mechanics much easier…. without dampening any of this gorgeous toy drive.
Great job here – I am loving that you are building terrific wing commitment & speed, along with the toy play – all in a more distracting location. Wonderful!!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Will try this first I think as I haven’t retried the rocking horse with food yet but when I did the 360 with food and walking during the one online group session she did much better with not pushing the barrel out of the way.>>
Yes! I remember she was really smooth with food. I think that is going to be our best approach for now: wrap, food, tug. As she gets into footing with more grip, and as we get the wings involved, you might be able to use the toy more but truthfully – it is fine if you use food then toy forever because she is happy, she is fast, and it balances her state of arousal really nicely!
>>That side is actually the side with all the room on it and nothing on the floor to crowd her either, so it’s food for all barrel work for a bit and slow speed on my part. I do also think it is her weaker side as this seems to be the direction she is more likely to do the pushing.>>
Yes – if there was no pressure from, say, a wall there – it is just that either that side is harder for her to organize without rushing, or she was more stimulated because it was later in the session? Try that side first next session and see what she does. And time is on our side – she is really young so you can totally keep working on these games without worrying about more speed. Then when spring arrives and the snow melts, she will be at just the right age for more challenge 🙂
Tracy
