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Good morning!
This was a good session for seeing what he is reading on the RCs!
>Then we tried the wind in your hair game again….my first toss was still late and he head checked to me….but the next couple were better.>
They were good, he was looking straight on the Go lines!
> Should I worry that he is taking the wrap around the wing pretty wide?>
Nope! He was being a really good boy: when you did the FC on the wing wrap (like on rep 2 at :11), that set a nice tight turn to the front of the jump.
Compare to the post turn on rep 3 at :27 and the other post turns starts – that actually puts him on the line to the backside of the jump so he is correctly staying on a parallel path to yours. Good boy! Since we will want him to stay on the parallel line for future backside work, starting with the FC on the wings here will help keep that tight and not dilute parallel path understanding.
> I had started to use “switch” for turn away from me….so when I tried left or right, I don’t think he has those concepts yet. We need to put in more time on this exercise but it was kind of warm and he kept diving to the shade so I didn’t want to ask for more.>
I don’t think it was the verbals here! And I don’t think it was the physical cues (you had some spot on physical cues at :32 and :40 and :57, where you were on the new side before takeoff)!
Yes, you had some late cues (:50, 1:14, 1:22) where you were still on the ‘go’ line side when he was making a takeoff decision. But what was the cue for the RC here? Looks like it was the toy throw! When you threw the toy early at :57 while he was making the decision… he tracked the toy throw and turned the correct direction. A-ha!! You did say ‘switch’ on that one, but I don’t think that was what he was cueing off of, because you said it on other reps and he didn’t turn to the new side. So even at :40, where the physical cues were great, he was not reading it – he was looking for a visual target.Here is a series of screenshots so you can see what I mean:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1BEHx66RvVjSoLXA67AnWkmOTPd77jGEW_2QirHq7NvA/edit?usp=sharing
So let’s take the verbal out for now and get him to turn without seeing the toy. Here is a fun game to play to teach him to turn his head to the new direction, based on the physical cues, since he has a great stay:
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
Yes, he is a speedster for sure!!!! This went well!
>The second try was so bad I couldn’t even look at it.>
If you still have the video, watch it and look at your feet. On the first rep here, you kept your feet together and stationary, so he missed the turn. On the next reps in this video, you either stepped with a foot or did a big lean – and he was perfect. So maybe in the session that you didn’t like, it was a foot thing?
But this session went SUPER well 🙂 so keep remembering to use your feet on this one.
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
I agree, this went really well! Yay! It is a really hard game and he had a lot of success. He is so funny on the start line: he has decided that the down stay is his position. That is great – he held the stay really well.
On the serp reps, he did well when you were stationary and when you were moving. Excellent!
> the two mistakes Max had it was definitely my handling on the first one. It wasn’t clear exactly what I wanted>
Yes – that was on rep 5 – he was setup facing the threadle line so would have needed a backside cue to get the jump. When he was set up on a better line, no problem at all.
The last 2 reps were the threadle slices and they looked great! Very clear arm cue and excellent position near the entry wing. Yay!
>and on the second one I should’ve had my arm out farther. >
This was when you wanted the tunnel on rep 7 (1:07): when you were in the threadle position near the first wing: you started moving, he started moving… then you said tunnel but it was too late because he was alreayd committed to the threadle (and then he took the tunnel, good boy!!)
MUCH clearer at 1:18 (rep 8 and rep 9 after that) – the ‘closed’ shoulder really supported the line to the tunnel.
Great job rewarding him anyway for the bloopers – in this case, they were handler bloopers and he was being a good boy!
> On a separate note, Max is one year old this month. Should I go ahead and start weave training or should I wait?>
I think you can start! Are you going to do channels or 2x2s, or a combo? He is ready to start the process.
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
I am really happy with this session too! Good form throughout and super consistent – a great balance of power and speed.
>. I can never really tell if Ellie is pushing off with her rear and the camera angle for the straight jumps may not be that great for you to be able to tell either.>
The camera angle (side view) was great here, and watching it in slow motion helps us see everything she is doing. Yes, she is pushing from her rear. Watch her very first movement after you release her: she lifts her front feet, stabilizes her core, and pushes off from her rear. Nice power!
> It’s easier to see her takeoff when the jumps are angled, but she was probably also getting tired by then and her form may have been influenced by the angled setup.>
I thought she didn’t really show any change of form when the jumps were angled. No problem, she said! Yay!
The only thing to add is the moving target toy. The reason for this is partially so she can work her mechanics with you (and the toy) moving, and partially so she doesn’t splat herself trying to grab the stationary toy. The stationary toy was low to the ground so she was torquing herself a bit to get it. Adding the moving target will help that, and using the biggest toy you have, so it is further off the ground and easy to scoop up. When she gets her mouth of the toy, you can let go of the end you are holding so she can keep moving through the toy and not crank herself stopping.
Great job here!
TracyGood morning! Awesome update! Lots of good info from Ven!
> The first couple trips in Friday he couldn’t take a treat or respond to any cues. >
For Ven to refuse food, that is one of his indicators that the environment is super challenging. You can switch to a game of “how far away from the action can you eat?” and keep moving backwards, 10 feet at a time, then offering a treat. That can help us find the threshold, where you can start playing pattern games or asking for tricks.
>Later in the afternoon Friday, he was able to “practice” his table at the podium setup and easily eat treats. On Saturday he was actually able to sit at the outside practice jump farthest away from the door for a couple of times.>
Awesome! Sounds like he was getting more comfortable in the environment, bit by bit. Super!
Over time, you can work up to being close to the ring, and incorporating a reward station – when he is happy to eat in the busy environment, you can leave his treats on a chair or something similar, walk away a few steps towards the ring, do a trick, run back to the treats. That can begin to introduce the concept of remote reinforcement for runs into that crazy environment 🙂
Nice work!!!
TracyGood morning!
Super nice runs here – the little dude is doing GREAT!!>On the FAST run I tried again to send him from the exc send line, he went out to the tunnel but I think my forward movement cause him to go around the jump. I will get this figured out!>
How does he do with the Novice/Open FAST sends? You might want to stick to those for a while to build confidence working at a distance in trials, while working on Exc sends in class or home. That way there is less failure at trials and less stopping in the run – he does best when things stay in flow 🙂
> I was a bit surprised when he bailed the teeter. >
When the judge saw that I was going to do redo it she told me to go take something else so we did. We will be working that this week tooThat is probably a FAST rule? But yes, he has had some teeter questions so you can re-visit it. You can also attach a small weight to the underside of your teeter, and move it a little each time so the tip/movement/noise is slightly different each time. That can help generalize the behavior to all the different teeters he will encounter.
>On the standard run he hit the weave entrance just from the wrong side. So I must have pushed a little too hard trying to straighten out the entry.>
Standard looked good overall! Nice connection and lines!
>On the standard run he hit the weave entrance just from the wrong side. So I must have pushed a little too hard trying to straighten out the entry.>
Yes – if you freeze the video at :24 when he is taking off for the jump before the weaves, you were facing straight as if indicating the tire. So he landed long – and then couldn’t quite correct the line in time to hit the entry (part of that is just baby dog inexperience). Try not to straight then entry 🙂 turn him to land facing the weaves, then let him do the rest! That is what you did in Open JWW and he was LOVELY!!
The JWW run looked great! You might have switched plans because he left the start line early? But it still looked really seamless – connected and fast!!
>On jumpers he broke the start line and I let it go so we will be working that before our next trial!>
He broke in FAST also – I think part of it is walking away with no connection and he is unsure or loses confidence with ruckus happening right behind him. On the standard run, you had a little more connection. Looking back at some of the other runs, he did best when the start line was further from people/dogs right behind him. So in the smaller venues like this one, leading out with your eyes on him more will hopefully support the stay.
He was also more successful in other runs when you lead out after you were sure he was settled into the stay. On the JWW and FAST runs here, you didn’t take that extra moment to be sure. In JWW he stood up and did a big shake off, then came over the first jump.
>One thing I have noticed the past couple of weekends is he doesn’t like all the barking although we have lots of barking at our house to which he contributes.
Most dogs feel perfectly fine contributing to the barking (mine love to contribute haha)… but can be worried by other dogs barking.
> I know he doesn’t care for loud noises. Yesterday was FAST with all classes combined, all standard classes & then all jumpers classes. He didn’t settle before our FAST run. >
That can also contribute to the broken stay: he was feeling insecure and wanted to come to you for support.
> I’m playing the find my face game & other simple things, sit, touch, paw, etc. & trying to keep him back if there is an extremely over aroused dog in the area. Any other suggestions?>
Those are all good things! One thing you can add to this is to prepare him to hear barking and not be concerned. I do this by adding barking at a low level and playing pattern games in training, thanks to YouTube videos 🙂 For example:
– without distractions, re-visit the pattern game (back and forth) from MaxPup 1, Week 3). Make sure he can still play the game with fluency. Then you can set up a training session to add barking (and not his housemates). Turn on a YouTube video of barking dogs or dogs playing flyball (there is indeed some barking in flyball LOL anmd the dogs have to be impervious to barking and other noises) but have the volume relatively low. Bring Indy into the room so the noises are happening, and do some pattern games. Then exit. And you can gradually crank up the volume on the video so it is SUPER LOUD. The pattern game helps him process and relax around the barking.
If you go to the youtube main page, you can search for ‘large dog barking’ and find lots of good stuff like this:
Or you can search for flyball and find all sorts of good stuff like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZnmiwvYKLc (short videos can be set to keep replaying)
Eventually you can add trained behavior like obstacles. Because my dogs also play flyball, I have not needed to add agility behavior to the barking games (because agility is easier than flyball, in terms of noise level).
But here is an example of adding barking to trained behavior – I was getting my young Whippet ready for flyball nationals so at the beginning of the video I turn on a barking video (and one of my other dogs was in the crate, barking haha). I took the sound out of the rest of the video but it was SUPER LOUD It was hard (he had an error on the first run) but then sorted it out and did really well (and did well at Nationals). He had started learning to ignore barking using the pattern games, then moved up to harder stuff. And when he is a in really challenging situation, I bring out the pattern games and it gets him back on track immediately.
Great job at the trial! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
I think the proofing went really well! Check out that really good
choice on that first rep where he almost went in the tunnel and caught himself. Good boy! And the rest of the session went really well too.>>He was challenged with finding the tunnel without my motion on the second side…so I put the motion in.>
Yes, it was totally correct to help him out.
You can also add saying the tunnel verbal really big and loudly while you are holding him – the wrap verbals can be quiet like they were… but tunnel can be shouted even before you let him go. I think the dogs are cueing off of volume and pitch of the verbal as much as they are cueing off the actual word.
He doesn’t seem to focus forward to the obstacles when you are doing this (he consistently looks away) but that is OK – he still gets it right at a high success rate. So say the verbal 4 or 5 times then just let go, regardless of where he is looking. There is a lot of pressure in this game, so he might not be able to look at the line (and we don’t want to add more pressure by waiting for him to look at it). The forward focus from a stay in front of a jump is a better context.
>He was challenged with finding the tunnel without my motion on the second side…so I put the motion in.>
Yes, it was totally correct to help him out. I think the loud verbals for the tunnel while holding him will help him not need as much motion.
On the Wind In Your Hair game: He said it was easy and fun fun fun! When you are throwing the toy, you can throw it as soon as he looks at the jump rather than wait for him to get to the jump. That will keep him driving straight. Placing it went well (he did really well going to the wrap wing even though he knew for darn tootin’ that the toy was behind him LOL!!) but we don’t want to always place it (so he still drives ahead when you throw it).
Since this was easy for him, you can add your motion (run run run!) and that can lead you right into the rear cross version we posted last week.
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
>He does heat up quickly and he likes cold weather. I was worried about how he’d handle his first winter (coming from Mexico City) and he loved it – would roll around in the snow (literally).>
That is so funny about the snow!! Fortunately, he likes food a lot too, so you can mix in cold treats as he gets heat acclimated. This is his very first real summer, right?
>I have a verbal that I use only for RC on a jump (“swing”). It has been terrific for Dellin – even if I get really far behind, if I cue swing she knows to take the jump and turn away. So I’m going to use the same verbal for Judge.>
Yay for the verbal! You don’t need to add it yet, til you’ve solidified the RCs. Right now he is watching the physical cues so the verbal might be getting lost in the mix. Maybe give it another session or two of just physical cues then add it back in.
You made a really good adjustment here: on the first RC or two, you were crowding him at the wing a little so you actually had to go forward on the straight line longer so he could get past you, so he didn’t read the RC info as early (:10 and :16).
Then at :21 and especially at :26, you were one step further from the wing so you could be moving up the RC line before he passed you – perfect! At :27 for example, he was already turning the new direction before takeoff because you had set the line and changed sides. He read the RC to the left really well too, especially the rep at :41!
And nice job mixing in the GO lines -remember that you can throw the toy as soon as he looks at the jump (rather than wait til he gets to the jump) to encourage even more acceleration past you up the line.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
> Will get this going at home first>
Wherever you do it, start with one foot then throw a frisbee and let her forget about her new socks 🙂 and start on a back foot, I think those are more important than fronts for now.
She did really well finding the jump! She kinda looked at you on the first rep, but then after that was pretty locked onto the jump. She did have one blooper towards the end – possibly due to a combination of more distance and not enough connection? You added more connection on the next rep and moved a little closer, and she got it really nicely.
You can throw the reward sooner: rather than wait til she gets to the jump (which will cause her to look back at you if the toy is not there because there is nothing else to look at :)) you can mark with the get it and throw the toy when she looks at the jump after exiting the tunnel. That will keep her looking straight the whole way.
And then be sure to have a party of praise, and play with her when she brings the toy back. Make the reward last longer than the rep! She was bringing it back and you were taking it away and walking away to start the next rep… more play and engagement please, she says 🙂Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
He was a rockstar on these hard courses! Wow!
The standard course design had some odd lines – it almost seemed like he looked at you a couple of time as if asking “seriously?” haha!! But he stuck with it! Good boy! The cross on the teeter was probably a little too early, pushing him off the side by accident. It was a good spot for a fix and go.
The weave-aframe discrimination is pretty popular nowadays – he probably needed a brake arm to ge more collection on the jump before it, because without it the line did look ike it went to the weaves.You both looked great in Jumping, wow! He was so close to the Q! I think maybe the weave entry had too much accelerating from you heading into them? It did look and sound like you timed the cue really well, but also they kind of blended into the wall in the back there so it was hard to see. It is possible that he had a hard time seeing them too? But he did seem overall very comfy with the facility there!
Great job here! Keep me posted on the rest of the weekend!
TracyHi!
Looking at the set point:
She is definitely doing better with her stay – big improvement! That really helps us find the sweet spot for this setup. I think the distance is a tiny bit too big – maybe reduce it by 6” so she can bounce more comfortably? That will lead you into the jump grid we posted this week!Since she likes the food here as the reward, you can use a food-based moving target. It can be something like a food holder toy (like a lotus ball or similar thing) tied to a leash for you to drag, or even attaching a bowl to a line with duct tape and dragging it 🙂 That should work to get her focused on the line!
She did really well with the Minny Pinny! She turned nicely in both directions, no problem. Does she like balls or frisbees? You can throw those to help her drive through this even more. She likes food but it a little too ‘chill for this, so we can make things more exciting 🙂
The next step is to line her up and say the word then release her…. But don’t move 🙂 Let her do it all on a verbal cue! That can create even more independence, which will be useful with all the distance work you see in NADAC!
>I am thinking and was working on adding a new cue to her vocabulary. I am going to attempt using “back” when she is turn away from me to her left and “turn” when turning away to me to her right.>
Awesome! I did hear you using the new words. So let me know if this is correct:
Around – ‘soft’ turn towards you
Turn – turn away to the right
Back – turn away to the leftI think you also said ‘out’ – what do you want that one to mean?
Great job here!
TracyHi! Lots of good things in this session. It is a hard game!
>I think Ringo was bothered by his loud mouth sister who wouldn’t shut up. >
I agree with your assessment – you can even see him look over at her a few times as if saying “shaddup, I am trying to listen here” LOL!!
I should re-name these Processing exercises rather than proofing, because the processing demands are very high: the arousal of the tunnel being visible, having to listen to the verbals, moving away from the toy, not getting a lot of help from motion, the possibility of working through failures, etc. So his sister yelling in his ear could definitely draw bandwidth away from his processing.
>so I will leave her inside.>
I think adult dogs definitely get voted off the island (stay in the house LOL) when doing stuff with youngsters, unless they can be very quiet and relatively far. Otherwise it adds layers of pressure and processing that makes things harder when teaching hard stuff.
The other suggestion I have here is to line him up with a cookie at your side and hold his collar – and keep holding it while you say the verbal 4 or 5 times. Don’t let him move until after you have said the verbal, as this increases the chance of processing the verbal independently of other factors. If he is not held, or you let him go at the same time you say the verbal, there is a chance that he is guessing and/or relying on motion.
When things went well, you had a big party verbally and a big reward, that was great 🙂 When things went wrong, remember with this particular dog Mr. Ringo, it is super important not to mark the error, even if it is “nice try” or “try again” – those tend to immediately get jumping up at you. So, say you wanted the wrap and got the tunnel: just say cookie, line him up at your side, deliver the cookie as you take the collar… then do the next rep. That can help him work through any failures pretty smoothly (because part of this game is definitely about coping with failures). Plus, it gives you a moment to assess if you were potentially letting him go before he really heard the verbal a few times, or if you were blocking the wing when you did tunnel to wing (this is what happened at 2:41, and he had a much clearer visual at 3:05).
Nice work here!!
TracyGood morning!
The zig zag went really well, he had a pretty easy time shifting himself back and forth! Yay!! You can add another wing, or you can move these wings closer together (6 feet apart, then 5 feet apart) to challenge him to do the lead shifting faster and challenge you to cue it faster 🙂
>The frisbee is a bit awkward for the rewarding, but it’s what he really wants and it keeps him engaged. I had been using it for something else and I did not go back to the house to change toys.>
Yes, the frisbee is a reward he loves but it does bring challenges: it lifts his head up in some cases where we want a more natural head position. Does he like rollers? Can you do a roller instead of a throw as a reward?
>The I re-did the Minny Pinny – trying to get the spacing better for him. Not sure if I succeeded on that front.>
In the Minny Pinny, I think the spacing was good and the frisbee on the ground worked well – for his length of body, having it centered on the setup was causing him to drop his back feet on the last bar, so you can move it over on the line so he finishes the turn fully and then gets the frisbee.
He turned away really well! On the last few reps, you were throwing the frisbee and that lifted his head (and all thought of footwork goes away LOL!). Rollers would work well here too and plus that keeps your hands low, encouraging a lower head.
One other thing to consider in general and especially with the frisbee: as the temperatures heat up, he is going to take some time acclimate and will probably get hot easily (he was definitely hot in the Minny Pinny, look at his tongue hanging out the side of his mouth at :51 LOL!). And thrown frisbee rewards will heat him up faster due to the frisbee. So you can limit the # of reps in general as he acclimates, limit the # of frisbee throws, and also mix in colder food rewards. I use cold string cheese in the heat.
>I keep forgetting to video his line up – he pivots into side or heel for the set up. He loves to pivot, so we don’t struggle there. I’ll try to remember to video it.>
Fun! Loving the line up is wonderful!!!
Great job :)
Tracy
Good morning!
You made terrific progress here with the RCs! They are definitely a hard skill – the rear cross itself is not natural to dogs, plus we humans have to time the info correctly : )
The thing that helped her most was when you were getting on the RC line to the center of the bar right as she exits the wing. That was when you were able to show her the RC info the sooner, resulting in the best RCs. Super!
For example, at :07, you were able to get on the RC line pretty early, resulting in her taking off for the jump, going the correct direction.
Compare to :39 which was a little late: you did a couple of steps straight as she exited the wing, so she was turning to her left (towards you) and caught the RC info over the bar
I made some comparison screenshots here:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1-O_9qybYErEIuyZ7_yPpfvkYHOoc3XezNctNUJ9IWUo/edit?usp=sharingSo ideally you would do more like what you did at :07! And you can even be sooner: don’t be as far from the start wing, be right next to it with only enough room for her to come around, so you can immediately get on the line.
>and slowed down to walking. My plan was to slow everything down and see if that made it easier for both of us. >
Walking here was good but I think it delayed the info – she is speedy so you will need to really hustle up the RC line in order to get the info and side change to her, before she reaches the jump. When you were running, it is possible that you were running straight for a couple of steps (like at :39) so she did not read the side change because the info happened after takeoff. So you can try moving faster while also staying on the tight RC line.
Backside wraps:
>Usually she will take the front side of the jump, sometimes cutting in front of me and other times running behind me after the wrap.>
These responses are usually either connection questions (especially when the dog ends up behind us) or we aren’t moving fast enough and they get ahead and then don’t know what to do. Young dogs will default to the front of the jump when they are ahead and are not sure.
You got a mixture of both of the responses here:
At :03 – you were walking and she got ahead, so defaulted to the front of the jump.
:08 and :38 – she did a blind cross when you shifted your connection forward to look towards the jump. When the dog is behind us and sees us look forward, it does indeed look like a blind cross cue.:13, :17, :24, :31 – these were from the stay and were really good, back chaining her to be closer and closer to the wing. The common denominator on these reps were that yes, you were connected but more importantly… you were significantly ahead of her on all of these. That really set the line. So when you start her from the wing wrap, send her to it from further away (at least 6 feet away, maybe more) so you can be ahead for now just like you were when starting from the stay. When she is more experienced with this cue, being ahead is not as important but for now it will really help set the line to the backside.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning! She is SO FUN to watch – smart and joyful! And I love her tug drive: her balance of food and tug as reinforcement is fantastic and what we strive for in any breed of dog, and definitely the best of any Berner I’ve seen. Yay!!
>Took a while to work this out. >
Yes, and you worked it out beautifully! She was great about finding the jump, so the session was mainly about figuring out what the best reward was.
>decided to switch to food in bowl and that got what I think we are working on in this game? Next time we play I think I should just start with the food in the preplaced bowl? >
Ye, in this case, you ended up with a loaded food bowl and absolutely got the drive ahead with good mechanics from her. I think throwing a toy underhand (so she tracks it low) might also work, provided the throw starts as soon as she exits the wing wrap and looks at the jump.
> Next time we play I think I should just start with the food in the preplaced bowl?>
Yes, that will be perfect to start the next session. Plus it asks her to use impulse control to wrap the wing and ignore the cookie til cued. She was SO GOOD with that, that I was not sure there was a cookie in the bowl on the first rep.
The other possibility is using one of those crunchy cheese balls things – easy to throw, easy to see when it lands… but hard for dogs to track upwards so they keep looking down. That might come in handy when we add in the rear crosses mixed in with the GO lines.
>really hard to time that throw and it was making her do some really wacky stuff jump wise.>
Yes, that was when the toy was going up in an arc so she tracked it by also going up LOL!! It was exactly what dogs do in dock diving… except we don’t have a pool here LOL!! It was smart to move away from that – she doesn’t have a jumping issue so using different reinforcement was good to help smooth out her form.
>Our last rep was definitely the best…..my best as far as connection and seeing when she looked at the jump so I could cue GO. Before that it’s kinda all over the place :0>
Yes! You were able to handle without having to think about the darned toy throw, so it probably felt the best. I think you had a ton of good connection on the other reps too.
>7 1/2 feet apart, 2nd jump at 10″, keep the first jump at 6?>
Yes, let’s keep it at 6 for now. Let me know how she does! Great job here!
Tracy
