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Good morning!
I agree, I think we can split this behavior more to fine tune it. On the first video, I think there are a couple of reasons why she is offering the 2o2o more than the 4on here on the board, so we can definitely slept more.
– you might be a bit too far from the board, which is why she wants to do a 2o2o (gets her closer to the cookie to step into 2o2o :))
– when she is moving into the 2o2o, you are leaning in and using body pressure to get 4on, so she is waiting for that – so try to be very still and upright to shape this, don’t lean in or use any pressure. Let her think about her feet 🙂
– The board is pretty short for her length of body, plus the angle is hard – so it is easier to do a 2o2o because the 4on is a little squished up for her, and she would have to have her butt right near the wall. Try an easier set up – a longer board so it is very easy and comfortable to stand on it with all 4 feet. That way you can just shape her to get on the board and stand still with all four feet on it, with a target for now.
I was also going to suggest you put more value on the target which is what the 2nd video had. You can make it even clearer for her, by putting the target on a brick or book so it is small and only the target – that way you can isolate the front feet hitting the target – I think on this video, she knew it was something with the board and scratching, but I am not sure she knew specifically it was the foot hit on the target. So getting the value on the 2 front feet hitting the target will be the next step – then the scratching is easier to add on.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> He does now have a nice stay which I am very pleased with! I think sometimes it might be fun for him to not have to stay so perhaps we will mix in some behind the back.>>
Yes, it is fun to keep moving 🙂 And it is a good way to reset in a training session instead of lining up for a stay. Also good for disc throwing LOL!
The standard course is looking good! The table next to the teeter added a bit of a discrimination element 🙂
The opening went really well! It would be fun to see if you can lead out a little less and be moving the whole time rather than being stationary for the threadle. Teeter looked great! Being further ahead on the opening can help get you across the field for that back line 🙂
The RDW looked great and so did the backside after it!
With all of that speed… see if you can send to the backside then turn and leave so you stay ahead as best as possible on the line to the 12 tunnel . He committed to the backside well and then you decelerated to help him over the bar at :29 and :45. I don’t think he needs that decel or cross arm, you should be able to just run up the line and he should take the jump on the backside.
Great job getting the correct end of the tunnel #12 from behind him!
The big layer got you to a GREAT place for the threadle on 15! And that was worthy of reinforcement even if it was not what you planned LOL!
>> Perhaps I need to do more practice with the wing there and add more motion approaching the poles, or approaching from something else?>>
Yes, he was having a bit of trouble on the weaves there – you were converging on his line then standing still to help the entry, and he had some trouble with striding in the middle. That is all a speed-related, so you can leave the wing in and be moving the whole time, but not as fast and with no convergence to help (let the wing be the helper for now, so motion does not need to be). The goal is to use the weave cue then leave before he even enters – that is really hard, so less motion will help for now and then you can gradually increase the motion. I think he will sort out the footwork when he is more comfy with the angle of approach.
On the ending line – as you were making the transition into the wrap, you can face forward longer to the wrap wing, decelerating as you start the wrap verbal At 1:23 and 1:44, you were driving in and then rotated, so there was pressure on the line and then you turned your feet to the RC line – they both looked like RCs to me and to him 🙂 It is a tricky line – you can show the wrap better if you layer the jump after the weaves, so you are drawing him to his right even sooner and there won’t be pressure on the line that might show the RC.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy>> I’ve always thought of moving once he passed the commitment line but I’ve haven’t really thought about the and turning his head to the jump. I’ll have to pay attention to that. I’ll look for some sections of a Jumpers course and set this up. Although I suspect that some landing side reinforcement is in order as well >>
For a younger dog, letting him turn his head to the bar will make a big difference. And, adding in landing side reinforcement as you move away will definitely help because yes, eventually, you want to move away as soon as he passes the commitment plane. For example – the dogs in my house ages 4 and older all let me leave as soon as they get to the commitment plane, or sooner! The 2 year olds? Nope! I need to wait that one extra heartbeat 🙂
>>I went back and looked at a couple of the layer videos and it’s crazy how just that little bit of change in line (me getting out of the way) on the landing side of jump 2 was worth .3 of a second!!! .3 here and .3 there and the next thing you just took a couple of seconds off your time!!! >>
Exactly! That is specifically why we obsess on handler line so much because it adds up very quickly and makes a big difference 🙂
>>Planning to reset the equipment tomorrow and play with the layering exercise with the straight tunnel and I’ll have to see if I can find a section of a Jumpers course with a Reverse Wrap.
There are a bunch scattered around in the package 1 courses 🙂 Have fun!
TracyHi!
On the one jump threadles video – he did really well coming to the threadle-slice side of the jump! And still did well when you added a jump before it! On that jump before it, I add directionals to help set up the turn. What I mean by that is, depending on the scenario, I will use a left/right or wrap cue coming towards the jump before the threadle (jump 1 here), then just before the dog takes off, I change to the threadle cue for the threadle jump (jump 2 here). That gets a better turn and line, as well as a higher rate of success for the threadle when I am moving.
He also did well when you added the backside after it, and the backside/blind German turn! Nice!
Speaking of moving…. start to move now! You can be walking through the threadle then build up to get it while jogging and running. I also balance it A LOT with any dog that has Border Collie genes 🙂 because BCs and part-BCs go into vortexes of all-threadles, all-the time. Sometimes I will send to the front-side/non-threadle side, sometimes I ask for the threadle.
He did well with the jump-tunnel discrimination game! I can see his point about going to the far end of the tunnel – tunnel is a ‘forward’ cue and because there might be a little opposition reflex while you are holding him, the opposition reflex plus the forward cue= far side of the tunnel. Plus, tunnel threadles are often ‘come in and turn away’ so I can see his argument there too. He makes excellent points LOL! When the dogs insist on something like that, I figure that they are correct because they have the best view of the line.
Then after a couple of rewards? That was the one and only tunnel entry in the game. When you stood up and put him on your left – it was totally a tunnel /discrimination because of the ‘come in-turn away’ element of the position relative to you and the tunnel. So this is good to remember on fuller course work, if you are coming in on that angle.
We are not doing a ton of stationary verbals, so it will be easy to figure out which he needs based on his line
I am also very happy with how well he found the jump each time you went back to it – a really nice balance of finding the correct obstacle each time. Yay!
Nice work! Let me know if the thoughts about the tunnel make sense :) Tracy
Hi! Lots of good work here! And good job working to make the verbals sound different!!!
Seq 1:
On the FC wrap and RC wrap back to the tunnel, run away from them more, try not to stand still. On the RC wrap, call him or say tunnel, don’t say corre corre because that is a “run” cue and could apply to either the tunnel or jump, as he told you 🙂>>I am using the wrap verbal combined with the soft turn verbal and it worked. For me, both the tunnel or the jump after the wrap were a wrap 🙂>>
He might disagree – he was hesitating on the “tap tap right” cue after landing, waiting to be sure after he landed. I liked the last rep (sequence 2 at 2:02) where you didn’t really say tap, you said right right right more and he didn’t hesitate and had a perfect line to the layering. He might need a different cue for the tap (to the tunnel) and the right (no tap, to the layering) here!
Good job working out the timing of the RC 6 – the call needed to come before the tunnel then you had to be patient to get him past you for the RC on the jump.
Seq 2: really nice! You were switching up the verbals a bit on the layering section – I think the right verbal then corre corre worked best. At 2:03 you went to the right sooner and it was nice, and there was more motion in general in that section and he no questions there 3-4.
The layering got you to the 6-7-8 backsides nicely! I preferred the layering you did at the very end for 9-10 – pretend you are going to the a-frame after 10 (or to the pool haha). And if you want, you can change 9 to be the tunnel and layer the jump anyway, sending from 8 to the tunnel to the 10 jump. while you layer and run to the a-frame 🙂
Nice work! Fingers crossed for cooler weather ahead!
TracyHi!
>>I ran this with dog on left from 2-3 and then pushed to the backside and continued forward so she went around the opposite wing and onto the teeter now dog on right. Is the last part what you are calling a rear cross? I think it might be but I never thought of it that way.>>
Yes – it was a rear cross on the takeoff side.
>>If I do a blind between 2 and 3 then I need to turn towards 3 at just the right time to keep her from taking the front side of the jump. I think this is going to be hard to do.>>
Yes, that is where the blind will work nicely – it was harder on the video for Keltie because she doesn’t really know how to do threadles without foot rotation, and kept going back to the other side of 3. So two options:
– delay the blind so it is a little later, more like when she lands from 2 and is passing the wing of 3 (on your left) then do the blind so she turns and faces the takeoff side of 3.– make the angle of 3 a little easier so she can see the takeoff side after the blind more easily, and then gradually work back up to the threadle angle.
>>He was favoring his right hind leg, the same one he injured in a fall almost 2 years ago. There is nothing obviously wrong, but we scheduled x-rays for next Tuesday morning. I am going to just work on the flat with him until then. He is his usual self, no limping and no obvious pain. He seems to enjoy working on the behind the back starts. He clearly loves cheese puffs.>>
I am so glad the vet didn’t find anything in particular! Was it your regular vet? Do you have soft tissue person he can see? And I am glad he is enjoying his cheese puffs in the meantime 🙂
Keep me posted 🙂
TracyHi!
I am happy with what she did here! Lots of good info for moving forward on each game.Countermotion – she doesn’t want to leave the magical cookie hand 🙂 especially on the right turns 🙂 So as you move away from the wing, throw the treat hugger behind you to the wing, to help get more commitment on the right wraps. Her left wraps look great, she is definitely a southpaw on this game! So on the left wraps, you can have her chase you out of the wrap for the reward. It is totally normal that one side is FABULOUS and the other side is a bit sticky, that is what you are seeing her. So for the next session: start her on the easy side (wrap to her left) to get the ball rolling, then move to the right wraps and drop the reward at the wing for her on those.
She is not a fan of the wobble boards – I can’t tell if it is the movement of the noise, but either way we can build up the love but toning down the movement & noise by showing a whole bunch of towels under it so it moves a little and is quieter. She wants to engage and was offering the compromise of one foot touch (smart girl haha) but we want her to fling herself onto it, so try propping it with a whole bunch of stuff to dial back the movement & noise. When she is super confident with that and jumping on it with all 4 feet, we can fade out the towels.
She was also concerned about the teeter movement/noise here, so I would make that easier too – there is not a lot of movement of the board, but it made some noise at the other end of it on that first rep – so try adding towels or something so when it rebounds, it does not make noise for now and that way she can build up the confidence. She appears happy to do *anything* for the MM but we want her to not worry about the noise or movement.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! The jumpers run looked great! And I think those same jets come do practice strafing runs over my house – they are about 100 feet off the ground, I wave to them LOL! My understanding is that they are from the base in your next of the woods 🙂
The Opening looked great! Loved the blind and the tunnel send each time!
There were really only 2 challenging spots for you on this course:
On the tunnel to the out jump at :09 – you were using the verbals but decelerating so she turned into you based on the decel. You can accelerate into that line and it will help blast her out.
You had more acceleration at 1:26 – you can try an outside arm for the out, have you ever used an utside arm for an out? That can really help at a distance:
At 1:55 you ad more converging pressure before she got into the tunnel and a TON of connection (which brings your outside shoulder into play) and she found it treally well! Even better at 2:14! Nice!
The other hard part was the blind cross before the weaves – doing the blind on the takeoff side worked well for you at 1:36. That looked awesome! And yes, a little late on the blind at 2:41 but also maybe she was fatigued.
Handling it as a german will work if you are more laterally away from the jump after the tunnel on the way there, so you can more easily get past the exit wing of the German. Being clsoe to the jump after the tunnel made it very hard to outrun her to the German blind cross 🙂
Weaves to the end looked good! Doing the double front worked well. We can make the cue easier for you: you can do it more as a throw back where your upper body does the FC but your feet face the next jump, so it there is a collection cue built right into the first element of it. Here is what it looks like on the jump, please ignore my dog running around the tunnel a couple of times LOL!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>I had so much fun with the live class!! I wasn’t quite sure what to expect, but I really enjoyed the format and the sequences. I’m so glad I got the opportunity to participate.>>
It was great to have you there, you and Nox looked super!
>>As far as decel goes, I Shays forget it’s a thing, lol. It’s a totally new concept to me to SLOW DOWN while running agility!
Yes – when you are running a fast, opinionated dog like Nox, it is counterintuitive to slow down. Same with the one extra step – but both actually get you further ahead because she will commit better and then you have more time to get where you are going, while she is jumping.
>>>(Maybe you want to teach one online in the future… 😀)
Oh heck no, not me LOL!!!! I recommend either Jordan Biggs who teaches it here on AU sometimes and sometimes on her own site at http://www.argusranch.com , or Katerina Poplidnik who is amazingly extensive in her info and feedback.
>>we switched to stopped contacts and have been doing them for a month or so. She’s great if there’s a physical target on the ground, but if I take it away, she wants to creep and wait for me to go to the bottom with her.
It has only been a month? They are looking good.
>> I’m not quite sure to fade the targets yet. I’m thinking of using clear targets and cutting them smaller and smaller until they pretty much disappear.
Yes, or put clumps of grass over them to increasingly hide them.
>> I will try releasing with motion with a lead out since she is stopping at the target, though. I don’t think it would translate without it right now.
Add in walking past for now, while the target is still there. I like to teach all the things while the target is still there to help.
>>For big lines with jumps, do you think a jump chute would help? I’ve been told I can try putting jumps in a line at varying distances (15-30 feet) and have her run that with me in different places and adding motion gradually. I’ve been told jump grids will help (I’m not very good at adjusting things in terms of spacing or troubleshooting when things don’t look right…), but I didn’t know if that would help with the big lines at full height since most grids are tighter and lower (at least what I’ve gotten to in Susan Salo’s book).>>
I think some of the bigger distance ideas can help, along with giving her a focal point at the end, like the MM or her leash to target or something, so she is not trying to chase you motion. Start low height and then build up, doing maybe 3 jumps in a row at 18 feet.
Onwards to the jumpers video!
Tracy
Hi!
>>And I have a weekend with almost no plans (so exciting)>>
What is this ‘weekend with almost no plans’ of which you speak? I know of no such thing hahaha
I think the tunnel-circle wrap session went great. She is tight to the wing, finishing her commitment, driving in and out. Perfect! If you wanted to do a bit more of this, do the 2 wing ladder so she has to drive back to the circle wrap with a tasty tunnel out ahead of her 🙂 It is a good challenge!
But definitely move to the straight line 4 ways game, she is ready! And we can add a little height to her bars on it too – what in she jumping in class? And stretch out the tunnel and add more tunnel bags, she is going to be going REAL FAST and we don’t want any squished toes or splats.
>>She did so well at her class last night! She’s really understanding her lefts and rights, even coming out of tunnels. And we got some really good sends to jumps too.
Happy dance!!! I am not surprised at all, you’ve done all of the foundation work with her – and it is SO COOL to see it beginning to come together. You might even consider some NFC Speedstakes in the late summer or fall? Let’s take a road trip so our baby dogs can play with no one watching hahaha!
Great job! Let me know how the weekend goes!
TracyHi!
The entries were brain steamers for her with all of the countermotion and crosses! It looks like she got them all 100% when coming in off your left side. You can definitely use this in courses to help her become even more independent.
When coming in off your right on the wrap around weave entry, she wanted to enter between 2 and 3 and did on the last couple of reps. That was the correct wing placement, she was just going around it. If you think she doesn’t need the wing on those entries, you can do it without the wing, or you can show it to her from closer so she gets into 1 and 2 and doesn’t go around the wing.
Great job on all of these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
These were super easy, compared to the no motion game LOL!! She was quite strong on these – her only questions were when the jump and tunnel motion looked the same. And that is a good thing to work on: keep moving the whole time, moving forward, so she listens to the word and style of the “jump” versus “TUNNELTUNNEL” verbals.You were tending to stop and rotate a little on the tunnel cues, so keep facing forward on both the jump and tunnel cues – no speed yet until she is able to process the different verbals when the body movement is virtually the same – then we can add speed to it 🙂
Nice work!
TracyHi! This was a good session too! She is excellent with her verbals 🙂
Try to keep your body language completely neutral – on some of the reps, based on how you leaned and got the toy ready… it was obviously going to be a tunnel send and I am not even as smart as a Border Collie LOL!!!
It is normal to get some failures on this game, so I recommend just calling her back with her name and resetting with a cookie to try again. The toy party can keep happening when she gets it right.
>>Key points – she REALLY listens to her verbals and is very good at them if I give them to her timely. This really showed up with the tunnel. If I didn’t give her a “go tunnel” she’d turn back to the side the I sent her from. If I did say go tunnel she didn’t even look back at me and just ran straight. When I gave her a timely “right” command out of the tunnel, she was perfect.
Yes, that was really cool to see, especially the right verbal on the tunnel at the end.
>> Next time I’ll put the camera a little closer to me – it was hard hearing some of my commands at the beginning.>>
No worries – I figured the really quiet moments were the jump verbals, which is a good because we want the jump and tunnel verbals to sound totally different.
Great job!
TracyHi!
The layering skills are looking good! I think you can tell her sooner about the turn or the go on the jump before the layering (the blue jump close rot he camera for most of them, and then the blue jump further away on the last sequence) – you were tending to tell her when she landed from those jumps – ideally she would know before she makes a takeoff decision if it isthe layering jump or the tunnel, so turn on the big loud verbals for the layering as early as exit of the first jump, or the quieter turn verbals to the tunnel.
Walking the wrap instead of the threadle does make it harder because theoretically the tunnel could be on the wrap exit 🙂 But the threadle is a good one to time as well 0 she would need to hear the turn cues for it as she entered the layering – you could use a name call or directional on that jump, then move to your in in cue. Definitely play with it next time and see how it goes 🙂
Nice work! Onwards to the next video 🙂
TracyHi!
>>It would be wonderful for Ronan to not need that!>>
He won’t need it… and in fact you won’t have time to do it – he is still a ‘baby’ dog and I can already see that he has too much speed to require you to decel at the contacts 🙂
The indoor session looks great! And so does the outdoor session, where you were also able to add more speed 🙂 So now we keep adding speed while getting him to respond from anywhere, not just near you:
Using food, you can even do a “get it” release so he races ahead to get the treat while you turn and go the other way – then you cue a sit while he hurries back to you, but while he is still maybe halfway to you. That way you will have a big head start so he learns to do it even when way behind you.
This game is good for stopped and running contacts, because the dogs have to think about where their hind end is even while we are running. He is looking really good and paying lovely attention to his back end! Yay!
Great job! Let me know how the next steps go 🙂
Tracy
