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Good morning! I mist have missed this yesterday, SORRY!!
>>I thought there were a lot of really nice things happening in this run and even with the two ring-crew visits (off camera), he had more than enough points to qualify.
I agree, lots of nice stuff here! He probably needs more experience with random ring crew people – can you ask classmates to sit in chairs in the ring, during his turn?
>Unfortunately, Cowboy noticed a gap near the gate and ran out of the ring so we were eliminated.
>I thought about it for a while and am wondering if my reinforcement approach caused this.
>>Currently, most of the rewards occur at the end of the run near the exit. I am sure he was >>experiencing some stress but based upon his behavior before, during and after the run, he didn’t >>seem totally freaked out.Yes, I think there was some ring stress (there always is with youngsters in new environment – stress is not always a bad thing :)) but also yes – the reinforcement procedures will totally help!
I think he probably does not fully understand the remote reinforcement procedures of when to go to the reward outside the ring (and when to continue to run the course, even when turning away from obvious exit gate).
>>In class/practice, I plan to start tossing the Lotus ball away from the gate at the end of the run and randomly rewarding at the other end of the ring but if you have other suggestions, I would love to hear your thoughts 🙂>>
Yes, the lotus ball will help reward him for turning away from the exit gate, and that is great! Pair that will have the obvious reinforcement there, and mix in having him come to you at the end of a sequence or run – praise – then use your remote reinforcement marker to run to the exit & reward. And the next step is adding in the leash, which is mandatory for AKC. I just posted leash stuff yesterday afternoon so you can begin playing with the leash as a reward and also as part of the remote reinforcement procedures – all good stuff to teach him as he is learning how to compete. And definitely show him all this in class 🙂
>>BTW: There is someone who is speaking off camera; not sure who but not me:)
Yeah, that was strange LOL!!!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Oh and how long can I ask questions after the games weeks are done? Like how long do we have to finish the games 🤦 Do you know when you start the next session? I just have to get till the end of February…
The lass week of class begins on Feb 1, so you can ask questions at any point between now and the 15th of February. The next session will start early/mid March, I will finalize the date soon 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>but I’m having trouble with the rear cross, esp her bad side, turning left. She keeps turning back to me, not looking ahead. She’s very me/treat focused.
She might need earlier information – Try crossing in behind her much earlier and see how it goes: so if the prop is 12 feet away, cross in behind her when she is still 6 feet from the prop to see if that helps her. And if she turns the correct direction, reward her even if she doesn’t hit the prop (it is easy enough to put the prop hits back in). We are working on rear cross stuff more tonight and that might help too!
>>I’m hoping to get a day off to start the new stuff and pack this week. I’m leaving Saturday for 12 days road trip to invitationals in Orlando. Can you tell me what I’ll need to work next Tuesday, 12/14, games. I’m going to pack the stuff and I’m hoping to work some stuff.>>
You can bring your cone/barrel and if you have a jump bump or pool noodle, bring that too 🙂
Tracy
Good morning! I see improvements here for sure, and I have some ideas for you too!
In the Collection Sandwich game: looking at the blind crosses, yo ucan have your dog-side arm even further back as you move up the line (before the blind) like at 1:26 and 1:47 when he didn’t get on your right side, he went directly to your left side.
But, that might be related to something else that I can see in the other clips – it looks like he might have more value working on your left side (than on your right side) so he is migrating to your left side – you can iolate the right side by NOT doing the blind and having him come to your right for a cookie. That can help balance the value. Having your arm way back and TONS of direct eye contact will help get him to your right side, in order to deliver the cookie 🙂
The pivots are coming along nicely! You were a little too fast on the first couple, but then you slowed them down and he was starting to get it (like after :50). It is a little harder with a small dog, because you can bend a little but you can’t crawl LOL, so he hops up a little – but that will go away as he gets more experienced 🙂RCs – these are hard! They are a trained skill, so as soon as we ‘crack the code’ to help him, he will be great with it. This was a good camera angle! Specifically for this game, you can do the RC a lot sooner : ideally you are fully finished cutting in behind him before he gets within a foot of so of the prop so he adjusts before he arrives and turns the correct direction. Looking a the session:
freeze the video at :50, when he is about 4 inches from the prop – you are just starting the RC and he is already turning to his right. Then freeze it at 1:03 – when he was also about 3 or 4 inches from the prop – you were a little earlier but ideally you are already finished and on his other side when he gets to that point before the prop. And, if he turns the correct direction – reward him even if he does not hit the prop. You might end up being so early that he turns but doesn’t go to the prop, but that is fine – reward! We can build the prop hit back in afterwards.Separately, you can work on getting him to turn away from you on the flat, following a cookie hand. More on that is coming tonight!
Turn and burn:
>>Emmett first and it did not work AT ALL with this prop because he kept trying to figure out how to get INTO his kennel!>>
That is so funny!!!! Ha!
The turn and burn went really well! His commitment understanding is strong and your timing was good. He had some trouble on your right side (was pretty perfect on your left side… there is a trend forming LOL!) So on the right side,, make a little more connection on your sending (like at :41 and 1:10) so he gets a really strong support as he leaves for the send. You were really good about holding your position when you did th 2nd session and that helped a lot! You can work more value into the right side sending so he gets more comfy working on your right, by giving him more experience with it and a little less motion. It is also possible that he is a righty and not a lefty, so either way, more experience and reward working on your right side will help him.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I totally understand about not wanting to do this in the drizzle!>>Plus, I’m not convinced she’s switching sides after watching the video. She’s coming to the correct side though. I’m just not sure she was really on the other line first. Need more space!
Ha! This worked pretty well indoors! She was indeed switching sides – you can see the lead change/side change at :09, :15, :22, :29, :36, :51, 1:05, 1:10 so she was totally reading the blind. I think at
:44 and maybe :57 and 1:17 you were too early doing the blind (she was still eating LOL!) so we didn’t see the side change as clearly on those. That will be easier when you take it outside and when we build up to bigger games that don’t need a cookie toss start 🙂The only other thing here is to keep feeding as low as possible on the pivots – I love how she was bending her body on those, so the lower her chin, the better. And the GO for the cookie is going well!!! Because you were using a cookie, you can also incorporate an empty food bowl as part of the go, because it is a nice big visual to drive to – that way you can have the go cookie in the other hand so she doesn’t reach for the cookie in your dog side hand as you finish the pivot.
Backing up to the target looks really good!!! She was totally ‘looking’ for the target with the back feet, good girl!!!! She is ‘sticking the landing’ on some of the reps, which is hilarious: she was finding it with her back feet then when she found it, she was smacking it with both of her back feet together. So funny! And fine, as long as she continues to use her back feet independently to back up like she did here.
Next step on this: a target that moves a little, like a big balance disc (that is not very inflated) or a wobble board that moves a little so might need some towels under it. Start her on it ad close to is, so she is not surprised by the added movement.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Yes, the list is going to be posted with this week’s games – usually it gets posted in a few weeks but this class is ahead of the normal pace so we will get it going today 🙂T
Hi!
Rear crosses are hard and as soon as we find the key, her lightbulb will go on and it will be easy. I think she was starting to look at you and realize that something was different here, which means we are on the cusp of getting it! Good job continuing to reward it, because it is a handling thing and it is better to reward for now as we figure it out. She was looking at your send hand here a bit, so definitely don’t use your hand to cue this. Here are some other ideas:
In the context of this game: If the weather is still good, take it outside and get her driving ahead with a good amount of distance using the parallel path game (but don’t add lateral distance for yourself). After a few reps where she leaves you in the dust by a good margin – you can add in cutting behind her when she is halfway to the prop or less than halfway (do this going to hr stronger direction first – which way does she naturally want to turn?) If she turns the correct way for the rear cross, have a GIANT party (I don’t care if she hits the prop for the moment, she just needs to use it as a focal point). That can help jump start the behavior.Separately from the prop game – you can put her at your side and turn her away from you, first in a circle away from you and you don’t move, then a “U” turn with you also turning to face the new direction. That can help her begin to realize that is it OK to turn away from the original line. We actually have more of this coming tonight!!
>>It’s like Mari has told her she will never see it in real life, so just pay no attention.>>
HA! Dellin, don’t listen to Mari, she is not telling the truth LOL!On the toy play/retrieve video:
>>Slightly different than your lectures, but I have done a lot of toy work with her and this seems to be what is working the best to get her to return it to hand.>>
Perfect! The lectures/demos are just basic framework ideas and then we figure out what works for each individual dog 🙂
The video was fabulous! I really liked how at :21, for example, she was bringing it back, holding it high: her intention seemed to be that she definitely wanted to deliver it to your hand. YES! And then later when she dropped it, picked it up AND lifted it – hooray! And then you got several more reps of the smooth retrieve to hand. THIS IS VERY EXCITING! Yay! Keep going with this, and I am sure you’ll be able to slide in different types of toys over time. You can eventually “install” behavior into this to get the retrieve to transfer into “work” 🙂 What I mean by that is you can take a really easy, highly reinforced behavior and have her do it in between toy throws:
strike – tug tug tug – simple behavior – throw – retrieve tug tug tug – strike the other toy, and so on in a happy loop 🙂 But don’t add that til you get a couple more sessions that look like this.>>If you can draw me the wrap diagram from a couple of days ago, that would really help too so I can sort out my words.
Here is a link to a google doc with some pictures:) The W means wing which is the wing or barrel or cone we are currently using. In order to avoid have 10,000 verbals, I fit the turns as best as possible into the verbals I have so we don’t need to name every degree of turn – that would drive me crazy LOL!
I drew my wrap verbal versus the go versus the backside circle wrap versus the left/right soft turn verbals. One thing about the wrap and soft turns – they name what happens before takeoff, now much collection is needed. So I will use a wrap verbal when the dog needs to collect a LOT and come back around the wing immediately but I will use a soft turn verbal when the dog needs to collect only a little and then eventually might come back around the wing (I drew both). Th turn and burn game, for me, is a wrap verbal because it fits better into the “collect a LOT and come back around the wing NOW” – definitely not a soft turn verbal, but also not a full backside circle wrap (my verbal for that is only used in that specific context).
Let me know what you think!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DW8WbYWbAtDCP-CKVlToEcRV6ofqBoc1uwiGG8IDgwM/edit?usp=sharingTracy
Hi!
Did I miss a Clean Run sale??? Eek!“” but first day of single digit temps AND huge wind….””
EWWWWW let’s all go somewhere warm!!!
On the video:
This is going well! You have a beautiful arena 🙂You can add more distance using your diagonal and also using a longer cookie toss: start with her with you in the middle of the diagonal – toss the cookie to the barrier (that was BRILLIANT) then as she is getting the cookie, you can move to the end of the arena 🙂 That can give you more room. And you will be able to add in earlier decel before the pivot. She is pivoting beautifully! For these agility pivots, lowered your hand position so her head stays lower (below her topline). You were feed mid-thigh here (which produced a heeling head position) and I think it you lean in and feed at the bottom of your knee, you’ll get a perfect lowered agility head position (low head for weight shift into turns :))
Great job here, you are totally on the right track!!!!
TracyHi!
I am glad you sat down on the Klimb, I was hoping you would when I saw the start of the video. Perfect setup!Wow, he is hustling backwards nicely!!! His form is mostly perfect too – at :31 he was perfect until he got to the board then he kind of lifted his hind end onto it LOL It was pretty hilarious, like an exclamation point. I couldn’t tell if he was just sticking the landing or if it was a little fatigue (even after a couple of reps, the pups will get fatigued doing this) so definitely keep an eye on it – if he keeps trying to stick the landing like that, we can start him closer to the board (to maintain the independent back foot movement), go to the moving board (I think he is ready for that now) or we can fade the board out to focus on independent back feet.
Great job! Let me know what you thin!
TracyGood morning!
I think it is AMAZING that the two of you can train together – you can get fast, efficient loops in while he also learns to ‘work’ for both of you while ignoring whichever handler is not ‘in play’. What a valuable opportunity!
>>I am feeling better (finally) after my booster (an interesting 2 days of feeling like I had the flu!) and should be able to get back to some training this week.
Glad to you are feeling better!!! It stinks that the booster hit you hard but thankfully it is done now.
>>Here is the video of Karena doing some week 3 prop games. Do you have any suggestions on how to keep his interest here? We are tugging in-between, but are otherwise trying to keep it short. His interest level for these less movement oriented games can waver.>>
Excellent question! On the parallel path game, he was definitely a little zen. And on the sending game where there is already pairing with motion? He is much more GAME ON! LOL!!!
He did well with both games (and arousal shifted the behavior in the sending game) so we can look specifically at how to make games super fun without a lot of movement or tugging, while maintaining the accuracy:
So for the parallel path game:
How good is his retrieve? You can totally play this with 2 toys. I have played it with 2 tennis balls and 2 frisbees (rollers) for dogs that are not that into food. The food established the behavior nicely, and now you can get he behavior rolling with toys – which will have a nice by-product of him learning how to modify his arousal, which he needs to learn anyway 🙂 When the toy brings the arousal to the game, back off the other elements so move more slowly and be close to the boot.
Another option is to use your tug breaks more frequently:
Break off after every 2 or 3 or 4 treats to reset with tugging – you did have tugging resets but you can fold them in more often. Now that I am thinking about it, you can adding tugging into the loop: cue (by moving), then click, treat, tug… reset to the prop then click/treat/tug. This will keep him more excited and should also build even more value for the food because it is being directly paired with tug.You can do the same for the sending – either add tugging right after each treat, or do the whole session with tug toys as the reward. You can already see how he lost some accuracy when he got more excited (this is normal :)) so when using more tugging, dial back the distance and motion (countermotion) until he is 90% successful or more for a couple of short sessions, then add it bac in.
I think this will be good for him too, in our on-going quest to reduce tooth hugs 🙂 I didn’t see any here, but these sessions were super successful. Sometimes we get tooth hugging even when things are successful, because arousal is high.
Karena’s praise is awesome, especially toward the end when you spent some quality time telling him how amazing the hit was 🙂Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi1
>>She still gets it every time in a sit, but about 50% on a contact. She’ll stand on her head to catch the treat and maintain criteria.>>
What do you mean about 50% on a contact? Do you mean the contact behavior (2o2o) is correct 50% of the time, or she remains in position with the catch 50% of the time? I personally do not require the dogs to remain in position after I say catch & toss 🙂 It is a reward they are free to move to. The goal is that the value of going to the 2o2o and staying there gets really high even as you run past, because the reward is coming back there 🙂
The wing commitment is looking good!!
>>I can see how the self control piece. Will really help her as well.
Yes! It is totally a more realistic self-control where she has to make all the decisions 🙂
It was a little hard to hear: were you saying a marker to just triggering the dispenser? The marker will help for when you are not using the remote treat holder. And if she has an error, call her back right away so she doesn’t spend time pawing at the treat 🙂
>>I pretty much say “get it” for everything🙄 I’m trying not to. I decided when I’m placing a reward behind her to say “turn back” or maybe just turn. She was quickly getting it from a sit but if I get closer to the jump like I did today. She ignored it and went forward.
I noticed that LOL! Before each rep, plan exactly what you are going to say until it becomes second nature. I notice you also say a lot of “yay” and praise which is good – but then those become markers and they are not markers for reinforcement being available and to look at you or go get it (it can get confusing to the dogs!) so I suggest you mark, reward then praise during or after the reward (like you did with the turn back at the end, that was perfect!)
She did REALLY well with the turn back reinforcement! I like the marker ‘turn’ or ‘turn back’ better than get it 🙂 and she picked it up really easily. Do you use turn or back anywhere else in agility?
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
Wait, so that noise in the background is the noise from a neighbor’s speakers? Do/Did the dogs find it aversive? That could explain some things in terms of arousal that we can take a different approach with.
I think this session went well! Keltie seemed happy to drive into the course, turn back for her cookies, or run to the reward at the end. She reminders me of my Papillon, Nacho! So now your next step is to move the MM a foot further back, then another foot further back (but still behind her and visible). And bring it to classes, if she goes to classes and use it just like this there, too!
>> “Chilling out on a mat”. This has always been really difficult for him.
Can he relax in a crate, far from the ring, or different room or even in th car? We can find the threshold of where he is able to relax, and start there!
>> A frozen topple works but only for as long as it takes home to empty it and he can be pretty fast.
You can do quick ‘rest’ moments of the toppl, with you holding it perhaps, and then end it before he finishes it so he doesn’t eat the whole thing in one sitting LOL!
>> This is the first time I used a chin rest and that worked which is a little closer to a chill behavior.
YAY! That is great!
On the video –
Take smaller steps for now, so each element of the behavior can be build up separately. By immediately putting the leash on, you were not splitting things enough so he got frustrated. For now, in sequences, use reinforcement procedures that either reinforce what you are working on in that moment (start lines, or turns, etc) and then at the end, you can work the ‘let’s go’ remote reinforcement without the leash so he is happy to come right to you. The leash gets added in separately, first – then we put it into the full course work 🙂 (more info on this coming today with new games, with very specific steps for the leash!)>> I am also thinking maybe I need to train with lot’s of rewards just coming to me to get the leash on.>>
Yes! In the house – come to you, you reward, you lift the leash, you reward. Don’t even put it on, just lift it! Or reach towards his collar, reward. He has a frustration response happening, so we can rewire it to help him want to come to you at the end.
>>He did start to get slow off the start line. It could have been too many reps or the spooky neighbor working in his yard and yelling at us before he turned on the white noise.>>
it was probably too long of a session, if the video is 7 minutes and parts were edited out. They get tired, physically and mentally. Also, if all of the reinforcement is at the end and he was frustrated with the leash element and it was the same sequence a lot, he will lose incentive to drive to the obstacles – so keep balancing the reinforcement rather than only focusing on one thing.
As with Keltie, keep using the MM and start to move it a little further away. I have a little portable stool that the MM sits on at trials so I can leave it in good spot outside the ring (not too close, not too far :))
Nice work here! Stay tuned for the new games coming later today!
TracyHi!
It is fun to hear that you were able to get to a new place!!!>>But when it came to practicing, I found that I wasn’t getting the speed and excitement from him that I usually do. I am hoping it will get better as we continue to go back and he gets used to the new surroundings.>>
That is pretty normal – he probably was doing a lot of multi-tasking to execute trained behaviors and ignore the new smells and feels of the surface.
It will get better with practice and a high rate of success! And, bring the BEST reinforcement you can find. What is his #1 favorite reward?
>>I used the manners minder on the dog walk (just got him to do the one side for now) and it worked great! Haven’t started to work the 2o2o on the teeter. I thought I would save it for another week.
I am hoping to try the ping pong and other reinforcements from week 3 when I go back in two weeks but will work it at home in the meantime.>>This all sounds great. The ping pong doesn’t need to be a major focus until he gets VERY comfortable in the new environment.
>> I am learning a lot and want to thank you for all your instruction and individual attention. Looking forward to this weeks sessions and zoom chat!🙂
Thank you for the kind words!!!! I will see you in the Zoom chat 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>> I felt like I always had to release him to for a let’s go versus at the start because that would be toy toy. >>
I use toy toy to be super specific: it is the thing I placed right behind you. The ‘let’s go’ remote reinforcement is that is outside the ring somewhere.
>>Would you do toy toy on a surface? Is it really that big of a deal and I’m over thinking it? Would you sprinkle in toy toy at this point?>>
Not sure what you mean by on a surface?
>>As you mentioned, this frizzgillity plan but it will be not the same at a trial.
Will it be different because he won’t chase it, or because you cannot throw it in AKC or ASCA? Based on the reason it is different, we can plan. Plus, eventually, it will all be remote reinforcement too!
>>I’ve considered putting a frizz on a tug so I can at least get more movement with it in an acceptable manner at a trial but I’m open to other suggestions.
That is what I did with Hot Sauce – punched a hole in the middle of a frisbee and looped a bungee toy through it. It was nice and long so she did enjoy chasing it!
>>The other thing would be maybe seminar prep for one I’m going to in a couple of weeks… when we are in new places with new dogs I tend to not let him run off with the toy because I don’t quite trust him… he has done well just paying with tugs and staying engaged. Should I keep working the frizz or practice something else?>>
Being laying the foundation of ignoring the distractions, with the pattern games: first doing it with just the engagement back and forth with cookies, then add easy distractions. Then it gets built up to doing it with strange dogs and frisbees. It has a lot of layers so will take a while.
>>Unfortunately there’s not a safe fenced placed where I can really go practice this to see before the seminar. I’m really limited on new locations.>>
You can build it up with the engagement installations to give him the skills for when you do get to a harder location.
>>He did get to swim swim after so he was a very happy boy. It was a good way to end our session too. Also super happy on how he handled the mistake.>>
Yay! And yes, all of that was great!
Tracy
