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Good morning!
I think it is AMAZING that the two of you can train together – you can get fast, efficient loops in while he also learns to ‘work’ for both of you while ignoring whichever handler is not ‘in play’. What a valuable opportunity!
>>I am feeling better (finally) after my booster (an interesting 2 days of feeling like I had the flu!) and should be able to get back to some training this week.
Glad to you are feeling better!!! It stinks that the booster hit you hard but thankfully it is done now.
>>Here is the video of Karena doing some week 3 prop games. Do you have any suggestions on how to keep his interest here? We are tugging in-between, but are otherwise trying to keep it short. His interest level for these less movement oriented games can waver.>>
Excellent question! On the parallel path game, he was definitely a little zen. And on the sending game where there is already pairing with motion? He is much more GAME ON! LOL!!!
He did well with both games (and arousal shifted the behavior in the sending game) so we can look specifically at how to make games super fun without a lot of movement or tugging, while maintaining the accuracy:
So for the parallel path game:
How good is his retrieve? You can totally play this with 2 toys. I have played it with 2 tennis balls and 2 frisbees (rollers) for dogs that are not that into food. The food established the behavior nicely, and now you can get he behavior rolling with toys – which will have a nice by-product of him learning how to modify his arousal, which he needs to learn anyway 🙂 When the toy brings the arousal to the game, back off the other elements so move more slowly and be close to the boot.
Another option is to use your tug breaks more frequently:
Break off after every 2 or 3 or 4 treats to reset with tugging – you did have tugging resets but you can fold them in more often. Now that I am thinking about it, you can adding tugging into the loop: cue (by moving), then click, treat, tug… reset to the prop then click/treat/tug. This will keep him more excited and should also build even more value for the food because it is being directly paired with tug.You can do the same for the sending – either add tugging right after each treat, or do the whole session with tug toys as the reward. You can already see how he lost some accuracy when he got more excited (this is normal :)) so when using more tugging, dial back the distance and motion (countermotion) until he is 90% successful or more for a couple of short sessions, then add it bac in.
I think this will be good for him too, in our on-going quest to reduce tooth hugs 🙂 I didn’t see any here, but these sessions were super successful. Sometimes we get tooth hugging even when things are successful, because arousal is high.
Karena’s praise is awesome, especially toward the end when you spent some quality time telling him how amazing the hit was 🙂Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi1
>>She still gets it every time in a sit, but about 50% on a contact. She’ll stand on her head to catch the treat and maintain criteria.>>
What do you mean about 50% on a contact? Do you mean the contact behavior (2o2o) is correct 50% of the time, or she remains in position with the catch 50% of the time? I personally do not require the dogs to remain in position after I say catch & toss 🙂 It is a reward they are free to move to. The goal is that the value of going to the 2o2o and staying there gets really high even as you run past, because the reward is coming back there 🙂
The wing commitment is looking good!!
>>I can see how the self control piece. Will really help her as well.
Yes! It is totally a more realistic self-control where she has to make all the decisions 🙂
It was a little hard to hear: were you saying a marker to just triggering the dispenser? The marker will help for when you are not using the remote treat holder. And if she has an error, call her back right away so she doesn’t spend time pawing at the treat 🙂
>>I pretty much say “get it” for everything🙄 I’m trying not to. I decided when I’m placing a reward behind her to say “turn back” or maybe just turn. She was quickly getting it from a sit but if I get closer to the jump like I did today. She ignored it and went forward.
I noticed that LOL! Before each rep, plan exactly what you are going to say until it becomes second nature. I notice you also say a lot of “yay” and praise which is good – but then those become markers and they are not markers for reinforcement being available and to look at you or go get it (it can get confusing to the dogs!) so I suggest you mark, reward then praise during or after the reward (like you did with the turn back at the end, that was perfect!)
She did REALLY well with the turn back reinforcement! I like the marker ‘turn’ or ‘turn back’ better than get it 🙂 and she picked it up really easily. Do you use turn or back anywhere else in agility?
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
Wait, so that noise in the background is the noise from a neighbor’s speakers? Do/Did the dogs find it aversive? That could explain some things in terms of arousal that we can take a different approach with.
I think this session went well! Keltie seemed happy to drive into the course, turn back for her cookies, or run to the reward at the end. She reminders me of my Papillon, Nacho! So now your next step is to move the MM a foot further back, then another foot further back (but still behind her and visible). And bring it to classes, if she goes to classes and use it just like this there, too!
>> “Chilling out on a mat”. This has always been really difficult for him.
Can he relax in a crate, far from the ring, or different room or even in th car? We can find the threshold of where he is able to relax, and start there!
>> A frozen topple works but only for as long as it takes home to empty it and he can be pretty fast.
You can do quick ‘rest’ moments of the toppl, with you holding it perhaps, and then end it before he finishes it so he doesn’t eat the whole thing in one sitting LOL!
>> This is the first time I used a chin rest and that worked which is a little closer to a chill behavior.
YAY! That is great!
On the video –
Take smaller steps for now, so each element of the behavior can be build up separately. By immediately putting the leash on, you were not splitting things enough so he got frustrated. For now, in sequences, use reinforcement procedures that either reinforce what you are working on in that moment (start lines, or turns, etc) and then at the end, you can work the ‘let’s go’ remote reinforcement without the leash so he is happy to come right to you. The leash gets added in separately, first – then we put it into the full course work 🙂 (more info on this coming today with new games, with very specific steps for the leash!)>> I am also thinking maybe I need to train with lot’s of rewards just coming to me to get the leash on.>>
Yes! In the house – come to you, you reward, you lift the leash, you reward. Don’t even put it on, just lift it! Or reach towards his collar, reward. He has a frustration response happening, so we can rewire it to help him want to come to you at the end.
>>He did start to get slow off the start line. It could have been too many reps or the spooky neighbor working in his yard and yelling at us before he turned on the white noise.>>
it was probably too long of a session, if the video is 7 minutes and parts were edited out. They get tired, physically and mentally. Also, if all of the reinforcement is at the end and he was frustrated with the leash element and it was the same sequence a lot, he will lose incentive to drive to the obstacles – so keep balancing the reinforcement rather than only focusing on one thing.
As with Keltie, keep using the MM and start to move it a little further away. I have a little portable stool that the MM sits on at trials so I can leave it in good spot outside the ring (not too close, not too far :))
Nice work here! Stay tuned for the new games coming later today!
TracyHi!
It is fun to hear that you were able to get to a new place!!!>>But when it came to practicing, I found that I wasn’t getting the speed and excitement from him that I usually do. I am hoping it will get better as we continue to go back and he gets used to the new surroundings.>>
That is pretty normal – he probably was doing a lot of multi-tasking to execute trained behaviors and ignore the new smells and feels of the surface.
It will get better with practice and a high rate of success! And, bring the BEST reinforcement you can find. What is his #1 favorite reward?
>>I used the manners minder on the dog walk (just got him to do the one side for now) and it worked great! Haven’t started to work the 2o2o on the teeter. I thought I would save it for another week.
I am hoping to try the ping pong and other reinforcements from week 3 when I go back in two weeks but will work it at home in the meantime.>>This all sounds great. The ping pong doesn’t need to be a major focus until he gets VERY comfortable in the new environment.
>> I am learning a lot and want to thank you for all your instruction and individual attention. Looking forward to this weeks sessions and zoom chat!🙂
Thank you for the kind words!!!! I will see you in the Zoom chat 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>> I felt like I always had to release him to for a let’s go versus at the start because that would be toy toy. >>
I use toy toy to be super specific: it is the thing I placed right behind you. The ‘let’s go’ remote reinforcement is that is outside the ring somewhere.
>>Would you do toy toy on a surface? Is it really that big of a deal and I’m over thinking it? Would you sprinkle in toy toy at this point?>>
Not sure what you mean by on a surface?
>>As you mentioned, this frizzgillity plan but it will be not the same at a trial.
Will it be different because he won’t chase it, or because you cannot throw it in AKC or ASCA? Based on the reason it is different, we can plan. Plus, eventually, it will all be remote reinforcement too!
>>I’ve considered putting a frizz on a tug so I can at least get more movement with it in an acceptable manner at a trial but I’m open to other suggestions.
That is what I did with Hot Sauce – punched a hole in the middle of a frisbee and looped a bungee toy through it. It was nice and long so she did enjoy chasing it!
>>The other thing would be maybe seminar prep for one I’m going to in a couple of weeks… when we are in new places with new dogs I tend to not let him run off with the toy because I don’t quite trust him… he has done well just paying with tugs and staying engaged. Should I keep working the frizz or practice something else?>>
Being laying the foundation of ignoring the distractions, with the pattern games: first doing it with just the engagement back and forth with cookies, then add easy distractions. Then it gets built up to doing it with strange dogs and frisbees. It has a lot of layers so will take a while.
>>Unfortunately there’s not a safe fenced placed where I can really go practice this to see before the seminar. I’m really limited on new locations.>>
You can build it up with the engagement installations to give him the skills for when you do get to a harder location.
>>He did get to swim swim after so he was a very happy boy. It was a good way to end our session too. Also super happy on how he handled the mistake.>>
Yay! And yes, all of that was great!
TracyHi!
>>Quick Question: When we are starting the procedure of getting the dead toy off the ground and say “Get it” – IF my dog is in a position that is requested e.g. Sit – does ‘get it’ also become the release word?
Yes, it becomes a release word which also specifically indicates the availability of the reinforcement out ahead.
>>I confused Seeley (older bc) with this because I always said break then ‘get it’ so essentially break also meant you can go get the toy.
Ah, good point! I also use “break” but it means to move forward out of the position and into the next bit of “work” relative to what I am doing. You can say break and then get it, as long as you don’t always say break then get it.
Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyHi! Congrats on the great trial weekend!! Tugging at the start line and offering the line up are big wins!!! And the awesome runs in the pairs classes are icing on the cake, I totally want to see video 🙂 How fun!
He did well on the concepts here in these videos – they are brain-benders!!
I love the Behind Ya cue! Very clever! One thing on this is that you can reinforce successive approximations, you don’t need to wait for the full turn back and grab the toy. He did turn back and grab it on the 2nd rep and alst rep, but on a couple of others he turned his head nicely so you can then get in there and play with him, to affirm that he was correct to turn back. So be patient like you were when you said the marker, then when he offers any approximation of it (like at 1:45), you can get in and start the tug game. You’ll need to stay nice and close for now to do this. When he is regularly turning back and grabbing it, you can start to add more distance.Good job with the wing wrap game! It is an entirely different sort of self-control: he has to move away and offer behavior in order to get the reinforcement. So hard! He had to take a moment to ignore the toys at first and offer behavior but he got faster and faster here! We build on this even more with the games I am posting later today! Plus, this will also help the remote reinforcement games because it is related to those as well.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHello and welcome!!
You do indeed have a working spot, I am glad you got started!! She is SO CUTE!!!
First video:
Shaping the prop value is really all about handler mechanics – one suggestion at the very beginning is to get the cookies ready before you put the hat down, so you can get that first reward in right away. She is showing good value, and that will make things easier in the next games!>>sometimes I am not exciting enough and she leaves. Defiantly had too much in my hand and not enough rewards.>>
She was definitely into the toy! Yay!! And yes – you can take an extra heartbeat to make the transition to have to cookies ready, put the toy down on a table right near you, or something close by. And when you do play with the toy, be sure to be fully engaged and a little wild during the play, so she can totally get into it – this might also mean that you don’t have anything else around or nearby, because it might draw her focus away from the game with you.
When you switch to the sends, you might need to tuck the toy away so it is not hidden behind your back or put it on a table that is nearby – having it tucked behind you was too tempting for her so she had a hard time taking her eyes off it LOL!! I like to have a chair or table nearby so I can grab something or put something down to make clean transitions and so the pup can focus on the game we are playing (and so we don’t feel like we need 27 arms LOL!)
One more suggestion is to replace the ‘yes’ with the get it marker so she learns get it means the treat will be tossed. That will help her stop looking at you, and looking more at the prop.
Food bowl game – she is definitely happy to eat the cookies! Two suggestions that should make things feel more comfortable and help establish the flow: this is a game that should be started with you sitting on the floor or a low chair, so it is really easy to get the cookies into the bowls fast. And have your treats ready in both hands so you can quickly drop them in to establish the rhythm – going into the pocket was interrupting the flow. Have 5 or 6 in each hand, to get her going back and forth.
Baby retrieve: she is doing well!!! You might need to have fewer toys available because she might not know which one is “in play” if there are bunch – she was bringing it towards you really nicely! You can also reward bringing the original toy with switching to another toy, if that is her current preference (that can really help her maintain this nice retrieve!!!).
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! These games are also going well!
For the backing up – start him with all 4 feet on the mini teeter like you did at :23, I think that really got things rolling. For now, don’t use your verbal cue – his current form is lifting from his front end more than using his back end independently, so we don’t want to name it til his form is more fluid (will take a few sessions of keeping things up close to the board so he only has to step back onto it, because it is so hard!)
I think you ended up up moving a little too quickly in terms of increasing criteria by getting further from the board, because it was really hard for him to ‘find’ the board with his back feet – you can stay closer for now and so his back feet just have less than an inch for stepping back onto it, so his form is good (backing up straight, head lowered, feet each moving independently). You might find that sitting on the ground for this is easier than bending over, because he is so little 🙂>>curious about your thoughts on whether I should avoid this object for backing up if I plan to teach running contacts??
This is fine to use, even with running contacts on the agenda in the future 🙂 Anything that helps him understand where his feet are (especially back feet) on planks will be super useful for the dog walk and teeter! And he won’t be confused about what happens on the real contacts when that training begins.
Collection sandwich:
>>Wow, this was hard to coordinate those hands, run straight, get my timing down, etc.!
Totally agree! It is one of those games where a 3rd or 4th arm would be so nice!
This is going well – the pups give us feedback about our mechanics and connection on this, which is really helpful. There were times where you are really connected, and he found the side change really well on the blind! And then if you were not connected, he couldn’t find the side change – like at 1:00. That is a great example of you probably being able to see him, but he could not see your eyes so he did not know where to be (you can totally reward those moments because it is good info from the pup :). To get great connection, look for his eyes more by reaching your arm way back to his nose – it was nice and low here but also it was at your side, which closes your shoulder forward so it is hard from him to se your eyes and shoulder position.
The only other tweak here is to decelerate after the blind, before the pivot. That will help him be prepared for the pivot so he can turn nice and tight to you – that little decel worked really well! When you were moving fast the whole time, he had a harder time making the turn like at :47 or 1:15. That deceleration will also help set up nice turns when we add in wings and jumps in the future!
Rear crosses – this started off really well! First rear cross was nice and early, 2nd one too! So he nailed those beautifully. Things started to get a little later after that, so he started asking questions and then it got harder to convince him to drive ahead – which made it harder to be early with the RC. So, mix in a lot of reps of going straight to maintain the driving ahead, and then you can throw in a rep or two of being able to show the RC as early as you did in the beginning here. When you are nice and early, he reads them beautifully!
Nice work here!
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Thanks for the fitness info, it sounds really interesting!!!!
He did well with the parallel prop game here! He is so fun!
One important thing is to NOT mark when he misses – we don’t want to build in any markers that might lower his rate of success or end up as punishment markers (that can increase stress of frustration) – he knows that it was not quite right based on lack of cookie throw 🙂 . If he has an error, just keep moving and head back the other way, getting a little closer in to help set up success. To help make it feel smoother, you can adjust the mechanics of the session: toss a treat away to get started and use visible treats – and then when he hits it, you can use a ‘get it’ to toss so it helps him predict looking ahead (you made the adjustment to tossed treats later in the session and that worked a lot better).
You can reduce the lateral distance a bit – when you were really far, he would go near it but not hit it. So, if he has 2 errors, get closer and stay in flow, rather than mark the error or stop.>> one of the biggest was keeping his attention enough not to leave for the prop without me.
I see what you mean, he definitely was ready to go! This is a good question because leaving without you can often set up an error. So for this game, you can toss the cookie further away to give you time to reset – then when he grabs it, yo are ready to start moving into the next rep. And if you need a moment to recombobulate, you can toss the treat, ask him to come to you for a treat, then start over. He won’t be sad about all the treats LOL!
Countermotion –
This is a good game for him to also get a cookie from your hand so you can reset – that cookie from your hand can build value for handler focus while giving you a moment to get the next rep ready,
He did really well here!!! I think the hardest part for him was hitting the prop when you moved away fast in the first part of the session, When you moved away more slowly after 1:20, he was very successful in terms of hitting the prop AND being comfy with you moving away – perfect!!!!
Something caught his focus right at the very end, no worries LOL!Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
She was pretty funny, turning around on her own – probably following cookie smells 🙂 Nice that she offers but also good to know that she starts without you LOL! I don’t think she realized she was supposed to follow your hand on the plank on this video, so you might want tp show her that on the flat then add it back to the plank, especially if she had trouble turning one direction over the other. I am guessing the turning around will be easy for her as soon as she fully realizes it is about following the hand.
Backing up:
She is definitely starting to get the idea and the food placement is definitely better here with the stool!
On the first video: Using this stool setup, you can start to delay placing the backing up cookie (from your left hand here) to see if she will begin to offer more backing up.
Skipping ahead to the part 2 – the backing up is looking good here because you were dealing the reward! Yay! I agree that she is may not know it was the mat (or maybe she does know?) because the mat is not that salient. You can try raising it a bit by piling under mat on it so there is a little step up. And if that goes well, start a little further away from the mat – that will let you know if she is actually “reaching” for it or if it is incidental. Either way – we are getting backing up and that is GREAT!!Parallel prop –
She is doing really well with the commitment! Yay! You can add a little more lateral distance here in coming sessions so you are further from the mat and she remains on her parallel path.>> Only thing is she is checking in with me for the treat when she touches the bag. Should I drop the ‘yes’ and just toss the treat?>>
Yes, drop the yes LOL! It is acting like a clicker: telling her the behavior is correct but not predicting where the reinforcement is coming, so she defaults to looking at you. So rather than “yes”, you can say your ‘get it’ marker and toss the treat out ahead. She might still look at you a little here but she will very soon begin to understand that get it means look ahead – just be a little early with the get it, you can almost anticipate that hit of the feet, picturing a jump replacing the prop so the goal is that she is looking ahead.
Great job here!
TracyHi!
I am really liking the frizgility approach! Normally 4 minutes would be too long but I don’t think it was too long for him here. YAY! I think he had a grand time here. He did sequences, he even has a little fix moment, no problem. Just be careful about him smashing himself trying to get the frisbee, we don’t want to break him 🙂And nice work ping ponging how much behavior you asked for before the ‘let’s go’.
A couple of little observations: The strike on the hard frizzy: yes, his mouth might have been sore but also as soon as he touched it, you moved it up hard and fast so he really couldn’t get a grip on it so he gave up, He was able to grip the soft friz better but still don’t move it up as uh: let him hit it and pull back, getting a good grip, before you move it.
You can also do a roller away fro the ring because he is not likely to get a throw in to the ring at a trial 🙂The leash going back on did not look punishing based on how he came towards it with happy body language – nice! And I like how you walked off at the end – lots of attention and I think heard something about “swim swim’ 🙂 Yay!
Really nice session! So keeping building this up with more and more behavior ping ponged in at home, and little versions of frizgility in other places to build up the behavior there too.
Great job!
TracyHi! Great job here!
>> Reilly did great on the get it game, so I tried in front of a tunnel. He glanced at the tunnel a couple of times, but stayed with me, is that ok or should I back off a bit.
He did really well! Would have normally sent himself into the tunnel? I don’t think you need to back off, I think he was just asking if your motion meant you were cuing the tunnel. If tunnels are very stimulating, you can play this with Reilly on a leash and 30 feet away (or further :)) from Jackson doing some tunnels!
He picked up the toy toy game REALLY nicely! “OK get it” might be muddy from when ‘get it’ was used for all sorts of things, so don’t say get it – you can say ok or toy toy, but no get it because he might get confused. The “ok snacks” at the end was perfect. You can also make his leash a toy and use it to ‘anchor’ his stays on the start line at trials. We will work more with the leash starting next week, so just picture it as the toy replacer here 🙂
>>At the show last Sunday Reilly was a perfect gentleman outside of the ring doing everything I asked. Once a the beginning he struggled and then had some good runs. Coming along I hope!>>
This is terrific news! I think he is coming along really nicely.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Should I feed on the floor for backing up?Yes, you totally can a that will also help tb build more distance. But still have your hands (as focal point) nice and low she is not looking high and tracking the treat toss.
She picked up the value for the new prop really easily! The hat is working well!
For the parallel path work – she is the MASTER of being able to hit the prop AND look at you. So, since we want driving ahead to NOT having looking at you:
don’t click anymore for this game, it is building more looking at you 🙂 Instead, use a ‘get it’ marker and toss the treats like you were, so she is looking ahead.
And, if needed, you can marker early: as she is on her way to the prop with this game, you can mark with get it and toss before she hits (and therefore before she looks back at you) And then we can add in hitting it again, but hitting it on the parallel path game is less important than looking at you (and the cue differentiates the behavior of this game versus the sending).
And the sending is looking great! It is fine to click for this game because we do want her head to whip around back to you 🙂 And yes – since she was fine with the forward, sideways and a little bit of backwards sends, you can start to leave earlier – move forward when she is 1 inch from the prop, then 2 inches, then 3 inches, and so on 🙂Great job here! Let me know what you think and enjoy the trial!
TracyHi!
>>The toy I used for Turn and Burn was quite long – I will drag it on the ground and see how it goes. I also have another couple of long toys that would work. I was not really focusing on the toy placement, so thanks for pointing out that I don’t want her jumping up.>
You might need to attach something big to the bottom of the toy – for a while I had a hollee roller with a frisbee in it to keep the focus downward and not up at my hands 🙂
>>Question about the verbals – the way I use “check” now with Mari is for a wrap and coming back 180 degrees. When I look at the wrap of the bucket and the exit it is not the way I picture a wrap – it is more of a left or right since we are running off at 90 degrees (I hope I’m making sense). I only bring it up since I am guessing you have a different word for the 180 back (and I mean 180 with one jump. Jump wrap tight and go back the way you came from, like with a throwback type move).>>
It depends on what the behavior looks like on a wing, so mentally replace the barrel with a wing:
any time collection where the go comes back across the plane of this wing, for me, is the wrap verbal. In turn and burn, they are coming back across the plane of the wing immediately so it qualifies as a warp because my other 2 turn verbals are the ‘soft’ turn (left or right) where the dog collects but makes an “L” shape and does NOT come back across the plan, or the backside circle wrap which is a full 360 degree turn (and turn and burn is not the 360 degrees). So I use the wrap because it fits it the best and I don’t want to add more cues 🙂 I can draw it when I get home on Monday 🙂The BC to pivot is looking good – more room to run makes it more fun 🙂 Only one suggestion: decelerate sooner 🙂 You were tending to decelerate for the pivot when she was just about getting to you, so doesn’t have time to decelerate, shift her weight and turn really tight – you can see she is a little wide at :32 when you turn towards the camera. So, using the same distances here, do the blind at high speed like you were, then decelerate almost immediately – she will still be about 10 or 12 feet from you when she sees the decel, so she will have time to organize and turn wicked tight to you 🙂
Great job here! let me know what you think!
Tracy
