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Good morning!
>>Big emotional response was like an understatement – she had a meltdown which was hard to see.
I believe it – you’ll look back someday and think it was hilarious in retrospect but it was probably really not fun in the moment.
I got a bit of video of it – using a big chunk of cheese for CB and a tennis ball for Elektra. I want the cheese and the ball to become super high value for each of them but traditional “shaping” or trying to cue it is too pressurized and not fun at all, so the cheese and ball get ‘inserted’ into these little loops that already have value (don’t ask me why Elektra thinks weaves are more fun than a tunnel) and – this is important – there is a lot of action and the cheese/ball were sandwiched between the fun activity and the high value reward. markers are super useful, because the get it has a pretty reflexive response at this point. If the interaction with the cheese or ball is not perfect? I don’t push it or pressurize it, I just carry on with the loop. This was done before breakfast so the cheese was very interesting.
It takes time and it is a really chill, no pressure approach that builds wonderfully high value in things that don’t originally have value.
>>I don’t know that she will try very hard to find the cookie in the grass.
Big white chunks of cold cheese are appropriately stinky, visible, and they bounce too which seems fun for the dogs 🙂 or a big meatball. You don’t need to do a lot of reps, just a couple.
>>The only thing she likes to look for in the grass is rabbit poo and I draw the line on using that as a treat. Actually, if I handed it to her or suggested that she eat it, she’d probably never eat it again. LOL>>
Ha! My dogs would rather wear the rabbit poop than eat it, but I draw the line at that too 🙂
On the video:
Her commitment is looking strong! That is great, so we can isolate the little details as you move forward:For the verbals, I think we can clarify them a bit to help set the lines (and to help with the bars). You were using ‘jump’ and directionals, I don’t think you need jump and right/left, if right/left means “take the jump and turn right” (you also had a go in there couple of times). If you say your right verbal, for example, as you indicate that middle jump, that can help her sort out the line sooner and makes it earlier. When you said jump before it, the left/right verbal was happening as she was already jumping the middle jump, so it wasn’t really a cue.
As she is passing you for the send, keep connected and you can repeat the right cue, but step away immediately back towards the tunnel – it is that step that will really solidify the ‘soft’ turn because it sets the next line and she will change her striding to get the turn really nicely!
the Lazy game with walking looked really good, and so did the running version! No problem at all with commitment, yay!!!
>> Lots of bars coming down in conjunction with throwing the toy, so looking for ideas to clean that up.>>
Yes, we don’t want her to habituate to dropping bars, so I have a few ideas:
– you can use a bump on the middle jump instead of a bar, as that wa the one that dropped the most. A bump allows you to work on the handling and timing, and allows her to work out her footwork, with no bars down (she dropped the first bar on one rep but she was set up too close)
– you can lock in the bars too so they don’t drop (but she will still feel them when she touches them, and most dogs *do* process that and change what they are doing)
– bending grids with you running and swinging the toys 🙂
– adding markers for the toy throws, so she knows where to look when you throw it (lots of words :)) and also, you can place the toy out on the line. That still challenges her to commit because she can still bypass the jump to grab the toy, but the placement minimizes the distraction of the toy throw happening while she is in the airAnd since the distraction of the toy being thrown caused a lot of bar drops, you can play a bit of a proofing game 🙂 here is an idea of Voodoo doing it as a 2 year old dog. Your distraction an be the arm movement of throwing the toy (but don’t throw it til you know she has not touched the bar). The 2-failure rule is in place here – if she fails twice, dial back the distraction:
have fun!
TracyGood morning and welcome! It is so fun to see the Brittanys well-represented with your crew 🙂 fingers crossed for some normal summer temperatures for all of us!!
Have fun 🙂
TracyHi! I can play around the course designer but I think the best bet will be too copy and paste the full course into a map… then change the course size to the dimensions of your field. I will try it and let you know what comes up 🙂
Hello and welcome back, it was great seeing you in the Zoom last night 🙂 felt like early Covid times LOL! I’m looking forward to seeing the Sheltie crew work these sequences!
TracyWe talked about that last night, I’ll post the video shortly. And we can keep talking about it in terms of what you’ll want to pull out of the larger sequences to work on, according to the needs of each dog.
THi!
Yes, these courses can be more challenging than they look, because the speed and lines require a lot of timing of both motion and verbals… and if one thing gets off kilter, you can have a domino effect with the cue timing and the dog ends up off course. The goal is to get everyone handling everything earlier 🙂 with as much consistency of verbals (and stripping out unneeded info) and staying in motion the whole time. It becomes habit if we rehearse, rehearse, rehearse 🙂 I am watching to see where the earlier timing is important -both to get the course cleanly but also where you are losing time on course.
Course 1:
Good job on 1-5, that is a hard opening and you got it consistently!
On the 5-6-7 tunnel-jump-tunnel line: give all the cues earlier 🙂 And don’t be quiet when he is in the tunnel, as that ends up causing him to have a delayed response to cues when he exits (he generally looks for you when youare quiet, and that causes zig zag lines). Tell him to go straight before he enters and tell him againwhile he is in it, and as he is exiting 🙂 The tunnel cue at :21 late (he was already coming to you) and not repeated enough verbally and your body cues peeled away at :22. You were much better at :49 by saying it earlier and supporting with physical cues, and you also threw up and outside arm to support the line (I am a supporter of those outside arm support cues LOL!)
YEAH for the backside after the DW at :52! And 3:02!!!! So nice!
10-11-12: One thing I notice here and in other places on both courses is that the “come” verbal might not be specific enough in terms of how much turn you want, and he is needing deceleration if you want a better turn. But decelerating all the time is hard because then you can’t get where you need to be. What is the specific definition of ‘come’? We might want to consider narrowing the criteria of it. At 11, he was jumping long for that tunnel threadle. You can also consider a soft name call before it, then the tunnel threadle verbal? remind me what his verbal is for the tunnel threadle and we can play with timing there.
More on this below, but I think there is no time to praise him during handling segments on course (during weaves, maybe, but not during jump and tunnel moments). An example is at 12-13, the tunnel to the straight line to 13: the ‘good dog’ praise turned him to you and off the line, which got the off course at 1:00 and near off course at 1:08 when you had to push him back to 13. Because the threadle sets up a rear cross on the entry of 12, telling him to Go or jump (or whatever appropriate forward cue he needs) before he enters the tunnel will smoooooth out that line and set up a good turn to the a-frame. When you did it without the rear cross on the tunnel at 1:40, he looked straight after the exit and that made the line to the jump and frame quite nice! That is good to kepe track of: when you are ahead and accelerating and it is NOT a rear cross, he will exit straight. Behind on a rear cross? Verbal forward cues are needed.
On the line from the frame to the threadle to the weaves – On the Come come flip at 1:12 for 15 – you can hold the verbal and the body cue longer til he decides to come 🙂 And can you start it while he is on the frame? It started when he got to the ground and was already striding to the jump, so it was late info.
The next rep answered my question: yes, you CAN start it on the frame because you started the flip cue on the frame and he nailed it. Later though, the verbal was ‘in in push’ so be sure you are consistent with the verbals there.
Weave miss: you said “of all the things” when he missed made me chuckle – I was surprised too, but it is a hard angle of entry. Definitely a hard weave entry, as he missed it again at 3:15 – for course running, go in one more step to support it and keep facing it like you did at 3:38 (for training, keep working those ‘soft’ side entries as they are very popular right now). I saw a fun little idea for this entry during a Zoom Q&A session with a Russian handler last night, if you are interested in hearing it!
On that jump line after the weaves: this info for 17 can come sooner, to set up a good turn to 18. By sooner, I mean it needs to start no later than exit of the poles and aybe even start it while he is in the poles (especially with the visual of that big delicious dog walk!!).
At 1:32 – you said come for 17 and he was already gathering for takeoff – he was wide and that made the switch cue at 19 wide too, because you then wait for him to come back to the line to then be able to give him that cue. You don’t have to wait, though – if one cue is late, the next cue can be right on time to get back on track. Same with the timing at 3:22 (cues as he was lifting for it) and the bar came down).At 1:51, you got a better turn there with decel but that put you too far behind and accelerating into 19. You can get the switch with decel and the RC even when you are behind, by decelerating and starting the cues when he is lifting off for 18. This is closer to what you did at 3:24 and 3:46 and he did a good job with it! He was not 100% sure of it (fell on his head a bit) so it is definitely something to keep showing him. He is questioningthe tightness of the switch at a distance, so you can add 2 things: call him again after it to show him the tightness, and accelerate away to the next line (and reward) so he drives back hard to it.
Ideally, you would leave him entirely in the poles, consider layering 2, to be up past 17 and heading to 18 as he exits the poles – that should set a sweet line an a great turn at 19!
Ok, now about that praising:
Be careful of praise instead of info – it delays the cues and he is waiting, I am seeing it a lot on course here. Good boy for him waiting for info, but it might get you into fault territory later in the sequence somewhere. For example, after he got the threadle at 15 at 1:45, you praised. Watch his head: he flicks it back and forth trying to sort out what the next line is.
And the “good boy” for the tunnel threadle at 12 (3:08 for example) doesn’t give line info so he curls into you and has to be pushed back out.For him, I think the correct behavior can be marked with the next cue and that will be super reinforcing (for you both :))
Course 2: This one went more smoothly for sure!
Timing of push to 3 at :13 was after he landed from 2, so he had to adjust. Play with starting it before he takes off for 2. so he lands facing 3 🙂
Then when he is taking 3, you can be saying the right cue for 4 (he took off looking straight there at :16) then when he has 4 and is turning, you can accelerate (he slowed down between 3 and 4, waiting a bit). This was a domino effect moment – the whole section can be faster/smoother by starting the cues before he lifts for the previous jump.Nice layering of the a-frame at :20 – he had a big question but the more he sees the layering concepts, the fewer questions he will have . I think your timing was good there (that teeter cue started nice and early amd you had parallel line acceleration), it was a lack-of-experience question.
On the reverse wrap at :25 (teeter-jump-weaves) – you can be in that center-of-the-bar position to cue the entry to the wrap, but then you need to move forward out of it so he sees/hears the wrap cue too – you held position there at the center of the bar and he jumped wide as indicated by your position. You don’t need to blind cross the exit, you can still RC the weave entry like you did, but moving off his line will make for a sweeter turn there.
He had a good turn on the weave exit because you started the verbal before he finished and you were in a great position! (:30). Trust his commitment more (and stay connected of course) so you can push past the wing of 10 there to show the line to 11 – all before he organizes his takeoff for 10.
Jump – DW- tunnel looked great and you put yourself in a strong position! You said “ENZO” before he entered the tunnel a : 37 and that seemed very effective there. The “right come come” and decel might thave been too much – he stopped at tunnel exit, waiting for more info. So maybe just the big ENZO and the a jump cue as you move up the next line will keep him moving. When you worked the end again from the DW, you used right right right in the ‘early and often’ method between the DW and the tunnel and kept moving, his speed and line was MUCH better there throughout!
On that closing line – the first rep got zig zaggy because you had extra acceleration coming out of the decel from the tunnel after the DW. The 2nd rep was MUCH clearer, the only thing to move earlier in timing is when you send him away to 17 with his check check (1:19), you can turn and get outta there for 18-19. You didn’t start the FC til after he had landed and come around the jump at 1:21 so he was coming to you rather than driving the line Then the acceleration cued a big extension and things got zig zaggy 15-16-17 – I would turn him left at 17, as soon as he gets the crrect turn over 16, send to 17 and FC to 18.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHello and welcome!! I think you will find that we can make it work for any skill level… we have all skill levels here from baby dogs just getting started in trialing and Masters dogs who compete nationally, and everyone in between 🙂 I am excited to see you and Hoke in action!
TracyHello, great to see you here!!! Select is a perfect age for this – onwards to getting more miles on him and into more trials 🙂 Have fun!!!
TracyHello and welcome to you and MOOSE!!! It is so fun to see you here online 🙂 Fun times ahead!!!!
Tracy
Hello and welcome!!!
I am hoping Kippy feels better ASAP, that must be so hard to not totally know what is hurting him. And Emmie is ready to pick up the full load, she is a perfect age for putting all the pieces together 🙂 This year FLEW by! I am excited to see you both 🙂
TracyTo get the courses into the Course Designer program, use the tiny text I included 🙂 Copy the full text including the words “start course designer” and “end course designer” and then paste it into a blank course map in the program. That should work! Let me know!
TracyHi!
>.what are you actually saying and where? I can hear the ‘tunnel’ cue, do you have a ‘jump’ cue? or di you use “go” for the jump after the tunnel?
Just before the dog entered the tunnel, I was saying “go” to ask him to exit the tunnel straight. Then I was saying “jump” for the jump after the tunnel, and left/right to indicate the middle jump of the pinwheel (meaning, that that jump and turn left/right depending on which side he was on).
>>and landing off that jump, do you use left or right for heading to the middle jump? It seems to me that if you do, they should rightfully be taking the jump on the same plane as the one they have just taken (and back into the tunnel without the middle jump). Or do you use right and left on the middle jump only?>>
The left/right is a cue for a soft turn on the jump in the middle, so the dog would land facing the next jump (not all dogs need this – my smallest dogs would not, and would just hear a “jump” cue there, and Sassy is probably similar to that). Left/right is a jump commitment cue, not a turn on the flat cue (also not a wrap cu), so when the dog is landing from the jump after the tunnel, the left or right verbal is intended to tell the dog to take the middle jump in moderate collection to make the turn. Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
Tracy
