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Good morning!
This sounds great!
>Thursday, ran a couple of rounds of jump, jump, RC to tunnel then RC tossed reward after tunnel exit. RC was seated about 3’ away from tunnel entry
This went well>Great! If there are enough people around, you can ask someone else to be the thrower so your hands & pockets are completely free of treats 🙂
>Friday, two rounds with some people walking around the floor. I also hung some coats on jump wings as a weird item. This too went well.>
Clever! Weird stuff seems to suck him in a lot. If he had no problem with the coats, you can put treats in the pockets or a bag to treats on top of the coat… that can make it harder and weirder 🙂
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
I am sorry it was a frustrating day – I totally feel that pain! Getting young dogs started definitely can be frustrating.
There were some bright spots and lots to build on, thankfully! But he is definitely telling us that this environment is too much for now, so we can take that feedback from him and work on stuff for the future. Some ideas for you:
>Ven didn’t respond well to me carrying a toy around the venue, it was like it created pressure. So I bailed on that until we have a chance to try it in familiar setting.>
Right – that toy-as-bridge plan is more for starting at home and in class, then building it into being able to use for remote reinforcement.
Since Ben said the leap from class/home/lessons to running courses in this environment was too big, we look for where we can help build in more steps to make it an easier transition. I have had this happen and I always find something that is missing… then I fill that in and everything gets MUCH better.
So let’s find what is missing that can help him out! It is not the obstacle skills or handling, so let’s look at the other stuff:
– in class or at his lesson, how is his ‘leash off, engagement on’ game going? Meaning: what does he do when you take the leash off, without holding his collar? We want to build that to the point that you can take the leash off and he takes that as a cue to engage with you, no need to hold his collar or cue anything
– in class or at his lesson, how does he do when you run with no treats in your hands or pockets? Figuring out where he is in the remote reinforcement process will help us plan: can he do a few obstacles? A full course, or something in between? (And this is where we can bring the toy-as-bridge in, to help with the remote reinforcement)
– at the trial, we will also build up him knowing where his reward station is, and I definitely recommend working through the FEO steps, including the in-and-out of just a couple of obstacles then out to the reward station. ASCA and USDAA and UKI and CPE are great for this, because they make it easy to do lots of short runs for lower entry fees. And I think NADAC allows you to run with a bag of treats in your pocket, which is also a great way to bridge the gap from food to no food in trial environments.
The big dirt arenas provide GREAT footing and ring size, but they are REALLY REALLY hard for young dogs… all the smells, the footing feels different, the visuals of all the people and dogs all around the ring… my Elektra’s head just about fell off her shoulders the first time she was in a dirt arena like this one! So part of getting him more comfortable is to simply be in the environment, even if it is just around the ring, warm up jump, etc – lots of reinforcement for easy stuff til the environment is recognizable. Plus, any young dog training opportunities likes seminars or fun matches would be great to help get him used to the arenas like this.
Let me know what you think, and we will get it all sorted out!
Tracy
Good morning! I am glad the vet didn’t find anything significant!
>I went in with a plan to keep him moving and try to get him to chase me and not get a chance to go to any other obstacles. I only restarted the weaves once because I was trying to keep him moving. I ignored any missed jumps and just kept going.>
This was definitely the winning plan! Bearing in mind that at this stage in his agility career, the trials are more about the environment and not about the obstacles. Looking at the JWW run that you used this plan for: you were able to get good shapes of lines and a lot of speed! The missed jumps are no big deal, that will go away when he gets more experience on the environment.
About weaves – if he is missing jumps, he will probably miss the weaves too, so no need to try to cue them or re-start them. Staying in motion was the best option.
Overall, this was a very strong run!
Looking at the standard run: the ring is hard with all of the visuals he might not be used to! He ran well when you kept moving. Remember that stopping to fix can be stressful for young dogs, so when he couldn’t get on the DW and you stopped, he had a stress moment. He came back and things got moving nicely again! Yay!
The cues to get on the table were pretty late (he was already landed from the previous jump when you were beginning to move to the table) – so the cues did read as tunnel cues. Then when you stopped to bring him back to the table, things tipped over into the stress response to pee on the tunnel.Even in the standard runs, I think staying in motion with no fixes will be a bug help. That can help release endorphins and dopamine, both of which feel good and are motivating 🙂 We know that his brain was probably processing a LOT happening, so he didn’t really ‘see’ the contacts or table (or weaves in JWW). But no worries – when he gets more experience with fun things in the environment, I think he will commit to those obstacles a lot more too.
You can also use a toy as a ‘bridge’ to reinforcement for FEO runs – he probably won’t tug with it in the trial environment, but the visual and presence of the toy can help indicate that food rewards are still present! It can be a food pouch tug that you use in class – sometimes there is food in it and he gets the reward from it. Sometimes it is empty and the food is outside the ring – so you show him the toy then go get the food outside the ring. This type of reinforcement ‘bridge’ can help with engagement as you transition into trials!
If you want a good visual of this, check out Julie with Lift the Sheltie. They have done this – Lift doesn’t really tug with the toy, but Julie pulls it out then they run to get the reward.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
Thanks for the videos – overall, he is running GREAT!!!Gorgeous T2B run! That ring is like a fishbowl, so much happening around it and above it. He ran beautifully. You handled with connection and speed and good timing, which really helped support his line. He didn’t love the teeter for some reason, good job staying close to support him! Definitely a run to be proud of in so many ways!
Looking at the JWW and Standard… I think the refusals were all due to late cues which sent him on a line away from where you wanted… and the visiting was a bit of stress as he was unsure where to be.
On the late cues, you were accelerating forward until he took off for the turn jump, then started the turn cues. So that caused him to land long and end up in the corner of the ring in some cases, or on an off course line in another spot. Here are details:
Impressive lead out in JWW!
He lost a little focus at :19 – the wrap cues were late and so there were a lot of forward cues directly to the corner of the ring – was the exit there, or ring crew? You got him back but the line was awkward at :29 which pulled him past a jump, then there were weird things to look at in the corner. He settled back in nicely!He had a refusal later on, but that was a timing question. The turn cue for the missed jump at :53 was late – he was coming in off a spread jump and your line supported his parallel path past the blue jump. The turn cues to get the jump started after landing from the spread, so ideally all of the cues would be visible when he was still at least a stride before taking off for the spread jump.
On the standard run – another nice run!!!
Yes, as you mentioned, you got too deep then disconnected trying to get around the a-frame at :18, so he just followed you.
At :25 – this was a refusal after the triple, because the turns cues started as he landed from the triple so he went straight. Looking at this, I don’t think he was heading to the ring crew person, I think he was just staying on his line which was to the backside in this case.
There was no refusal at :47, but that was another spot where the turn cue on the jump before the weaves can come sooner. You accelerated straight and then started the turn cue when he landed, so he went straight into the corner of the ring before coming back for the weaves (the weaves looked great in all 3 runs, by the way!!)
So keep driving hard like you were, and add in planning to give him turn cues sooner (especially when a spread jump is involved, or an off course line). Ideally, as he lands from the jump before the turn jump, you should be talking to him and starting the turn cues so when he takes off for the turn jump, he already knows what the next line is.
For example, look at the timing of 1-2-3 on the T2B run. You started to turn and call and run to 3 when he landed from 1. Perfect! Then look at your timing on the line from the teeter to the last tunnel: there were a series of turns there, and you started all the info for the turn jump (shoulder turn, new line of motion, verbals) when he landed from the previous jump. That looked fabulous! So in the JWW and STD runs, match that timing and I bet the little bobbles disappear 🙂
Great job!!
TracyGood morning!
>Other than a few sneaky broken stays, I thought it looked rather nice.>
I agree, this is looking really good (hard to remember how young she is because she is doing great with her body use!) There was only one rep that I didn’t love as much as the others – at 1:07 she kind of hoisted her rear over the 2nd bar because the toy was too close… but I am pretty sure that she broke the stay on that rep, because all of the others looked really good in terms of her form. So nothing to worry about for the rep at 1:07, she was just over-achieving by releasing herself LOL
She is about 10 months old (or a week short of 10 months?) so we have time before we need to think about adding height. I like how well she is maintaining her form with the toy moving, so you can build up to you jogging/running while dragging the toy before the release.
>Fair warning: as her whippet side is completely unproven in sports and the BC side is herding lines, I’m probably going to obsess over watching her jumping form for ETO until she’s 4!>
I completely understand obsessing! It is fine to obsess 🙂 I mean, I watch all the jumping videos is super slow motion, to optimize the obsessing LOL
We really don’t see ETO in racing whippet lines – sure, structurally the race-bred whippets make for a different jumping style in agility sometimes (as compared to more traditional breeds like BCs) but it is not ETO and honestly, I think it has to do with trying to cram themselves in on the shorter AKC distances. I don’t see them doing it in UKI or in Europe.
And I have not seen any ETO issues in the 50/50 BWs, across any breedings/lines (even breedings that I think are not a great idea). And most BW breedings are either from flyball-only lines, or race whippet bred to herding BC. All good! They have been great dogs who can turn on a dime and jump really well! So I am optimistic that you will not see jumping issues with Beat. But yes, it is fair to obsess because we probably both obsess over every step these dogs take LOL!!!!Great job here!
TracyGood morning! You have had a busy week!! And yes, my Halls and other cold meds have kicked in nicely LOL
>This was a bit of a challenge keeping MissL’s attention because the little 4 legged neighbors were out just on the other side of the fence.>
She did really well ignoring them, especially when they were trash talking her a bit LOL!!!
>Pardon the lighting on this video (that big bright thing is the sun!)>
At this time of year, I am always happy to see the sun, even if it is only on video 🙂
I think the game went really well, she had a ton of success!!
You can spread the distances out more, so she can run more – she was trotting here a bit because there was not a lot of distance. I think she will really love the running element of it 🙂 And since I know NADAC and lots of distance is in her future: you can shift the reinforcement to being thrown on the line. This can be a toy or ball (then reward her for bringing it back), or thrown food – you can use a lotus ball or treat hugger to keep the food easy t see when you throw it. That will definitely help create more independence on the lines and distance, as we add more speed and distance between obstacles.
Your connection was overall really good too, and you caught yourself in the one or two spots where connection was less clear. Yay!
>I also need to remember my left/right wrap cues>
Yes – you can give yourself a walk through before running her to plan your verbals, so you can get the directionals going and use less ‘go’ (we will save the go for the bigger straighter lines). And try not to praise her mid-run, it causes her to look at you as if asking if you are rewarding or if she should keep going.
Great job here!!! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning! Hooray for good weather!!!
It was smart to start the serp on one jump as a refresher – he did great. The whole serp session went well!!!
>OMG – I needed to shut up on that right side! Dellin could have done 12 off course obstacles while I was still yammering.>
Ha! Yes, there was a lot of right right right going on, even when he was at the jump and turning left LOL!! You were better on the other side 🙂 On the other side, you were turning off the left verbal as he arrived at the wing – and you can call him if you want, or use a right verbal for the line over the jump. What would you normally do on course when running through a serp?
>Good news – he seems to do better with my motion than that certain red dog did at this age.
Heck yeah, he did great!!! SUPER!!! I am finding the level-headed Malis and Mal-crosses are just fabulous about retaining their thoughtfulness even when motion is added. That is HARD for other breeds, indeed!
You can add excitement by having the toy replace the MM, and add more running too. And you can add the advanced level with the backside! Don’t forget the balance reps, where you do the FC on the wing so he comes through the gap and does not take the jump.
Looking at the Minny Pinny session: He is doing well with his directionals!!!! More on the left versus right below:
One thing I noticed in this session was he could not decide where to put his feet, and the striding was awkward/he was touching bars. I think that it was because the distances were awkward and he couldn’t find a balanced sweet spot to either stride or bounce, so he was likely feeling off balance. You can shorten up the distances between the bars here by about a foot, and see if he can then find the groove of a balanced bounce.
>– he seems better going left – at least in this session. I have not noticed to him to have a real dominant side yet>
I don’t think it was as left turn dominant issue as much as it was he couldn’t fit into the gap you gave him 🙂 He is a bit large LOL
At 1:53 and 2:09, you were cueing a right turn away from you and he turned left. I believe that was mainly because he did not have enough room to slide in between you and the wing to get to the bar – you were very close to it and leaning into his space a little (watch your outside foot/left foot step forward into his space before you released him, which limited the space even more and rotated you slightly towards him. You can reset with a cookie when that happens rather than grab his collar
At 2:15 and the 2 reps after it: you gave him more room to fit his big self in. And he immediately turned right. Yay!
Great job here! You can add in the balance reps of you staying in the same spot, and some times cue the verbal which turns him away on the bar in front of you, mixing in the verbal which sends him to the other bar on the other side to turn towards you.
Bear in mind that he might get hot easily this weekend (it is his first time living through a transition from winter to spring, so it might be hot!) so short sessions with lots of breaks are good!
Tracy
Good morning!
>Jump Set Point, Take 2. Jumps are a little more than 7′ apart (2 Great Mats), bars at 6″….might be a little long? >
I think 7 feet will be the sweet spot! 7 feet has been the right spot for the other sport-sized Berners who come through MaxPup, and she looks to be fitting that too 🙂
>We need to do the foundation work with the moving toy, so I went to a food bowl to see if that helped her get her head down. >
Letting her see you put the cookie on the food bowl definitely helped her look at the target. And by extension, the form was already better!!
She is stepping in to jump 1 well and organizing for jump 2 well. My only suggestion is that the food target is too close for now, causing her to have to stop all that momentum very suddenly. That causes her butt to go a little high over 2 (you can see it more clearly on the 2nd side). So, for the stationary target, put it another 10 feet away so she can power over jump 2, take another powerful stride, then begin to decel. Her stay is looking great!And you can also add the moving target by attaching a food holder to a leash or line (maybe punch a hole in a plastic container?) and after releasing her, slowly drag it forward. That can help develop the skill as you also build up holding the stay while the reward is in motion before the release.
>Also, did a few reps on the other side just to see if there was any difference and doing both sides is a habit that I need to work at.>
At :57 (first rep on the other side) she was a tiny bit too far from bar 1 and she tapped before takeoff.
She sorted it better on the next rep but I liked her position relative to jump 1 on the last rep the best – super nice step in! The target was a little too close on this side too, so you can see her hind end getting higher than her shoulders on jump 2. Moving the target further away will help that go away.And since she is 14 months old, we can start raising the height of bar 2 a little bit! Maybe 8 inches on the next session? She looks ready.
Looking at the Wind In Your Hair session: she was GREAT! On that first rep, she looked at you for a moment as if saying “what are we doing?” Then she saw the jump and BOOM! Game on. She found the jump very easily even without you needing to run hard.
So for the next session, you can expand the distance, add the wrap and go verbals… and add your running. I bet she loves it!!!
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning! This was a really strong session!! He is showing a lot of understanding of the cues, and he is FAST. I love it! Super fun!
>I’m struggling with leaving a toy on the ground>
Yes – he was having trouble ignoring it for sure. You can use a more boring target, like an empty bowl or big flat plastic lid? That can be a visual aid for him without being as exciting as the toy.
But also, your toy throws here were pretty great. The throws were timely and they were all in the right spot… so in the ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ category, maybe we just continue having you throw the toy on these games 🙂 There will be proofing games coming that can help him come in to take the jump no matter what is out past it, so we don’t need to worry about a toy on the ground for now.
> plus Max jumps up and tries to grab the toy out of my hand. I’m always telling him no no no and I don’t want to do that. I’ll take any tips you have>
It is kind of a Papillon thing to bounce off of us as we set up to start, especially when he have a toy in our hand 🙂 And Camper pups do it too 🙂 I take it as a “Let’s gooooooo” sign up excitement, but it can be annoying sometimes LOL and I don’t want the pups to get hurt.
So rather than tell him to stop doing to or the no no no (I have tried it, that doesn’t work haha), here are a couple of ideas to help redirect hi to behavior we like better:
You can scrunch the toy up in your hand so it is harder to grab at, which theoretically should make him less interested in grabbing it. And, you can give him something else to do as he waits for you to set up. Waiting on a dog bed or cot nearby can give him rewardable work which is far better than bouncing off you or grabbing for the toy. Then when you are ready, you can call him into the rep.On the video: super super nice reps when you were throwing the toy. He found the jump (even when it was a backside!) and came in to take it. Your cues (position on the jump, serp shoulders with arm back, verbal call) were spot on, followed by great toy throws.
As the advanced level with the backside gets harder, you can angle the jump a tiny bit so the bar is facing him more as he approaches the backside, if you feel he needs help finding it as the distance increases.He is definitely paying attention to the handling cues, doing everything correct when you cued it (except for when the toy was on the ground). And when you changed sides to start him on your right side, you accidentally cued him to come in the gap between the wing and jump – at :49 and 1:22, you were rotated towards him (like a FC) as he came round the start wing so he was correct to come through the gap. He was paying attention, good dog!!!!! That is totally rewardable because it was a handler blooper.
Compare to :54 and 1:28 as he came around the start wing: you were facing the line to the jump and he knew to stay out on the line. Perfect for both of you!
And adding the FC at 1:09 was great too. Really lovely session – fast, fun, and accurate!
Great job!
TracyThis is looking great too! You are on your way to her being a 2-sport superstar!
She is committed really well to the wings and tunnel, including the FCs and the race track. My only suggestion for the handling here is that as you finish the FC and head to the tunnel, using more eye contact and less dog-side-arm will get a tighter turn. She was a little wide because as she came around the wing, your arm was parallel to your side which blocks connection so she drifted a bit to find the line.
Instead, you can exit the FC the dog-side arm pointing back to her nose, extended to her and kind of perpendicular to your body – that way she will see your eyes and front of your shoulders. That will bring her in nice and tight!
Since she moves fast, you can tuck the toy into a pocket (like the front of your hoodie) or under your shirt. The reward doesn’t have to be immediate here so it might be easier to have your hands free and not have to transfer the toy from hand to hand.
You can also add more distance between the tunnel and wings, to let her really run run run! And hopefully the weather is good so you can take it all outside.
Great job here!!!
Tracy
Good morning! I am really happy with how this looks! Remind me how old she is, so we can decide about bar height?
One suggestion for jump stuff and for agility handling stuff: you can wrap her feet flyball-style when working on turf. I have found that my BWs and whippets have a harder time gripping turf, and they also sometimes shred their feet on turf… so wrapping them makes a huge difference.
And her tugging at the end looks great – you can let her ‘run through’ the toy by you letting go of it just as she grabs it, to protect her neck from cranking around as she stops with it. Then you can have her retrieve it to you, which builds that skill too!
Great job 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>But this is clearly not enough because even after several years of trying and being open to training them, I am NOT getting better with verbals and it’s been very frustrating. >
Totally agree that it can be frustrating!! And the science behind learning/memory says that walking and saying the verbals quietly will not be that effective, so I have changed the practice process to try to fit what the science tells us:
>With the movements I feel like I can picture that easier in my head and then just DO it (even when I was still learning them), but the words this really hasn’t been the case. I feel like I need to make the pairing a bit more automatic- do the movement AND the words>
State dependent memory for the win! If we learn/rehearse in the state closest to what we are going to be in when we need to recall/use the what we have rehearsed, we are better able to do it. So running and doing the handling and saying the verbals as we would say them during an actual run has been incredibly effective for this. In the CAMP and MasterClass stuff, doing the walk throughs like this is a priority and it really helps. We run the course for real with connection, handling, verbals… without the dog. And video it! Then we run it with the dog – and video. Comparing videos tell us if we are on the right track.
Everyone (myself included) has a love/hate relationship with it. We HATE it because it is energy-expensive to run the sequence or course a few times without the dog. Exhausting on a full course! But we love it because it increases the success level for timing, verbals, connection. And then that becomes much more automatic and we can reproduce it easily at trials.
So definitely try it with the puppy sequences! It should be less exhausting to run without her, because the sequences are smaller 🙂
> (and make sure that the verbal comes BEFORE the physical cue from a cleanliness of training perspective?)>
Yes to this on the training exercises set up specifically for the verbals/mechanics. For the sequences? The verbal and physical cues might end up being relatively simultaneous and that is fine – don’t drive yourself crazy about verbal-then-physical on sequence work because then everything ends up late 🙂
Here is an example from a while back (edited more recently but I think this was from 2022)
> I like that this might serve a dual purpose to teach her to ignore words and cues not directed at her while I have her on a boundary or scatter feed while I do the walk through!>
Yes if she can hold the boundary. My dogs can hold the boundary when I half-ass it. But when I run it for real with my invisible dog? They always join me. Part of it is because done correctly, the cues are compelling and enticing. And part of it is that I have not put enough reinforcement into ignoring me that completely LOL so I leave them in a crate or in the house while I am doing it.
Let me know how it goes!
Tracy
Hi!
>Had to get creative about the pill bug setup, but I think this works.>
This was creative and it totally worked!
>That first one was funny too when she had no idea what the game was and went “WHEE! I’ll just send to this weird looking ginormous jump wing over here.”>
Ha! Yes, that did appear on her line so she was being good!
>I could feel when I wasn’t turned back far enough with my right arm on those where she cut behind me, totally my fault. (>
Yes, and it is all rewardable because she is following the cues she sees. I think extending your arm back to her (elbow locked, finger pointing to her cute nose) will open up the connection as you run. When your arm was more bent and at your side (like at :18 and :36), she had a hard time seeing where to be – she was sorting out if she should follow the motion (moving laterally to your left) or find your right side. When you had your arm further back, it was clearer to her (like at :49 and also later in the video, like at the end).
Getting her around the full circle was hard and that was where you got a bit of jumping up – she might have thought arriving at your side was what got the reinforcement, so staying with you as you continued was weird? You can slow down and reward sooner (a few steps after she gets to you) then vary the timing of the reward so that you can get more duration and she will keep moving with you with no questions.
Putting things together that the end looked really good! She did super nicely doing the side changes and going around the full setup!!!
Great job!
TracyGood morning! It looks like NJ is delivering some good weather as you get settled in! And he did really well here!
He was trying to be b overachiever and send himself, so a cookie reset and line up at your side for each rep made it easier to add challenge.
When changing your position, say the verbal 3 or 4 times while still holding him, then let go so he can process it before he moves.
He had trouble with the right turns away from you but easily did the right turns away from you (and right turns towards you).
So to get the right turn away, moving over to be more centered on that bar was very effective! It was still hard for him but he had really good success. You can start the next right-turn-away already in that position to re-establish success, then gradually make it harder and more centered.
He reset really well after an error when you brought him back to middle for a cookie. The provides useful info for him that the rep was not quite right, but he was going to get another try immediately and reward was still available. He did really well not get frustrated on a really hard skill session!
The tunnel turn game is going really well too! He just needed one more step to the wing on the very first rep, but then got it after that and ran the very smoothly and fast! His commitment is looking great! Your verbals were mostly spot on – I think you were getting them a little mixed around at the end but they were pretty perfect before then. And he was flying, super fast! Love it!
The Left/right verbals can be sooner – you were saying them as he was entering, so try to get the verbs going when he is still 5 or 6 feet before the entry (you can lay a line on the ground as a visual aid to anticipate when to say them). He was turning well because that was his natural line, so rehearsing earlier cues will help when the lines get crazier 🙂
The Go cues can also be earlier, at the 5 or 6 foot mark (you were saying them when he was in the tunnel). To help get the straight line the wing past the tunnel exit, earlier go cues will help but also you can send to the wing and tunnel from further away. That way, you can be ahead of him when he exits the tunnel and lay on the connection 🙂 When you had your arm pointing high or were not connected, he didn’t know where to be, specifically. You can see this at :36 as he exited, you were pointing forward/looking forward which blocks connection and turns your shoulders to the wing right next to you, so he curled in. On the last rep, you had low arms (yay!) but no connection, so he knew it was somewhere out there but was not sure where, exactly,
Turning your head towards him to make connection will set that line beautifully. You had that happening better at :55 and he went to the wing nicely! Yay!
He had one leap-at-your-head moment at :29, when you praised him for being a good boy. That is good to know (that praise is very stimulating) so yes, praise him… but be presenting a reward at the same time to avoid head-leaping. When you praised while pulling out a toy or treat on the other reps, he did not consider head-leaping. Looking ahead to his trial career: you can start teaching him to go find his leash as part of the praise, so he has something to do with his excitement when things go well 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
