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Hi!
>> I saw from someone else’s thread (I think) that it’s ok to post videos somewhat out of order?
Yes, absolutely fine! This session looked lovely!
>> I was in a hotel room and used available props, so the garbage can as “wing prop” is somewhat short and Leo puts his head over the top a few times,
It is hilarious when he stuck his head into the garbage can a few times, and it is a puppy training online class to post videos from a hotel room (and also to post videos wearing pajamas LOL!). T
his went well – he is VERY SERIOUS about his training, good boy , love it!!!! 🙂 My only suggestion is to turn the garbage pail over so he doesn’t have anything inside to look at (even if there is nothing, it is tempting to look down into it LOL!)
Your timing was really good and yes – he had a bit fi a side preference going: he was basically perfect going from your left to your right, but had more trouble going from your right to your left. That is pretty normal – either he is a righty not a lefty, or the hotel room furniture was restricting his turnaround space. It will be interesting to see when you have more room if there is the same side preference (probably will be). You were smart to move the garbage/cone back in closer: the two sides do not have to process at the same pace – you can move one side (right turns) out more quickly than the other side (left turns). I am sure he will even out really quickly.>>but I hope that’s not disastrous and overall I think he’s getting it. I backtracked when he started to make the same error for the 3rd time in a row, but after that it was all good.>>
Definitely NOT disastrous – really strong session! I agree, he is getting it. When you have more room, you can switch to a cone and also try to get to standing up 🙂
>>Also, I am using too many diff. marker words, oops.
I think you were fine – you were mostly very quiet which is great, and added some big praise in when he had a big moment of ultra smartness 🙂 If you want, you can add in a marker like “get it” right before you drop the cookie. But you can also totally praise the big decisions, it is useful feedback for him.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I agree that she was not as enthused about the tugging her – I don’t know her that well so let me know if you think it was because there was food involved, or the platform signified food to her so tugging was less enticing? Or if she is not used to wild tug in the house (I mean, she is big, so my guess is that you have rules about wild tugging in the house LOL!). It could also be that the tug was high, so it was harder to grip.
So you can try to keep the toy lower and move further from the platform area to get more tug, or even try it outside where there is less of a food basis? Many dogs think that shaping is a food-only thing 🙂 so they reject the toy, even though they are very toy driven in other situations. We can separate the toy and food play to different areas and that can help them both stay strong – and then eventually move them back together.As far as the offering goes… she was brilliant! Yay! I think the next thing is to start getting her on things that move or make noise. What kind of wobble board to balance discs do you have access to? Because she is big, you can put more than one together so she has a big enough playing field to get all of her feet on 🙂 I love her confidence!!!! You can also try to elevate the various things, so she can practice getting on things that are a foot off the floor – it is a good balance game for the puppies 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
The blinds look great! She is reading them perfectly and you are making great connection before and after. You were a little late on the last one as you noted, mainly because you waited for her to get the cookie before you ran and she is on to the game now, so she came steaming up the line. However, she read the blind immediately which is great – we want her to be able to react instantly. Super!!!!!Do you have a longer toy? I think after the blind, you can drag a longer toy so she is driving out and looking down and not put to your hands – you can also tie the toy you were using to something longer and unfurl it as the reward 🙂
Great job here! This is a good one to play in different environments to help get her really comfy wherever she goes 🙂
TracyHi!
This type of session can go on for 3 minutes, no problem. She did a great job figuring out the pattern with the bowls; good job moving to the wing!And I agree – she is a righty, meaning she prefers to work off your left side and turn to her right. This is normal, and in fact, it is good to know! So yes – move the cone in when she is starting on your right and turning to her left, and back out when she is going to her stronger side.
She is doing a fabulous job of offering the behavior and so I know it will balance out easily. All of my dogs have shown a strong side preference at 6 months too (2 lefties and one righty LOL!) and now that they are basically adults, you can’t see the side preference any more.
On the 2nd video, with you standing, she did GREAT and she is already balancing out on both sides!!!
>>She looks six months in this one when she trips over the cone!!!
That made me crack up. OOPSIE! Hahaha!!!
One thing you can to to balance the sides for now: moving the cone is hard when you are standing up, so as you drop the cookie in the bowl, you can either step forward to make it easier (closer to the cone, when she is on your right) or step back when she is on your left so it is harder. As long as she is eating her cookie while you step in or out, and it is not really a cue – it will make it even easier for her!
One thing to note that is also really good: watch her as she wrap the cone. Watch how she is leading with her head, turning her head first into the turn and then bending the rest of her body – that is perfect and exactly what we want! It predicts that she will have great turns in the future 🙂
Great job here!
TracyHi! This is going so well! She is giving a foot and nose bop to the target LOL!!!
I thought she was going to pick it up at one point!
She was pretty perfect when you were a couple of feet away. When you added distance with her on your left – no problem. Her only questions came when she was on your right. It is possible that she is less comfy working off your right side as we saw with the pivots, and also that your right hand is also your magic cookie hand so she doesn’t want to leave it. Even when she was on your left to start, I think the rewards came from your right. So two suggestions:
When she is on your right, stay a little closer on your sending for now – it will balance out and catch up to your left side sends with more success from being close on your right.
Also, try to add in rewards from your left side too 🙂 When you send on your right, reward from your right. When you send on your left, reward from your left (this might be weird-feeling if you are a righty :)) That will balance out the reward mechanics and she will learn the rhythm of sending no matter where the cookies are located 🙂Her focus on you with the ready dance followed by the send to the prop looks AWESOME!!!!! Great job here!
TracyHi! She will totally learn the difference, no worries there! So the lower head here is just a jump start to get the muscle memory going 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>> I’ve used a nose target with my big dogs for a long time and do like it so think I’ll just go back to that for my teeter 2o2o. If Nancy fusses at me I’ll survive >>
Ha! I mean, we teach it differently now (my nose touch teeter dogs are not required to do 50000 nose touches in order to get the reward and it is not a big press to the ground) but that extra layer of criteria has really made for some amazing , decade-long teeter performances! Caveat, though – not every dog has the structure for a nose touch in the front end assembly so I certainly don’t recommend it for all – my BW does more of a head bob because his forelimbs are so long that he would be really uncomfortable doing the nose touch. Ripley has the structure to do it if you so choose from what I can see in the videos 🙂
>>we haven’t done tons of it with super specific criteria as far as speed, distance or straightness.
That is good – with pups, it is far better to work on technique before adding anything else especially because they are still growing.
I like how he is using his back feet independently and methodically rather than flinging himself around 🙂 And the ‘destination’ helps keep him straight! Perfect!
And for now, I think it is fine to do this without toys because the form needs him to be very thoughtful. Eventually the toy play can come in to challenge him to be thoughtful while also in higher arousal (great for contact training and also great for warming up before running at a trial!)One small detail to help with form: He is using your hands (your right hand in particular because it is the magic cookie hand) as a focal point which is perfectly fine, except he is raising his head to do that. You can see his head is above his top line. Ideally, his head stays level to the top line or just below it. So any easy fix – I have no problem with him using your hand as a focal point; in fact I think it is really clever! So, let’s lower the focal point by having your hands lower. If your back will allow it, bend over so your hands are somewhere between his chin and his elbows. My back would allow 3 or 4 reps of that LOL! You can also do this with you sitting and hands in your lap. Or with you standing, you can place a bowl down as the focal point, with the cookie already in the bowl – you have enough stimulus control on the bowl and cookie, I think, that you can put the cookie in the bowl, cue the back up, then mark/release to the bowl.
>>Here we did backup to his Cato board flat, then to his wobble board with the edge propped on a low step then to his wobble board at a steeper angle.
All looked really good! You can add a little more motion to the wobble board if you like. For the wobble board at a steeper angle, my PT vets have all asked me to not going any steeper than you have it here – he was able to get his back feet in it while still in a natural, functional shoulder position. They don’t want the dogs to do any extensions of the shoulder with all those small, developing soft tissues by having the hind end higher up. The PT vets have all specifically requested that we NEVER do those Superman/handstand tricks with the dogs, so I pass that along in puppy classes 🙂
Great job! Have fun at the trial!
TracyGood morning!
>> Had the class in an uproar laughing because it was so funny and cute, but I was relieved he didn’t get hurt!
Yikes! I would have been scared too, we love his drive but we don’t want him to break himself!!
>>Video 1 – Tugging
>>Okay so don’t judge me but I had JUST finished my workout and Ronin was absolutely demanding to play so I figured it would be good opportunity to video some tugging. I would not normally video in just my workout clothes, but I’m getting too old to care what people think of how I look (I exercise so I can keep up with hubs’ activities >>Ha! No judgement here, have you seen what I am wearing in half of those videos? You look great! It is an online class rite of passage to post videos in workout clothes, unbrushed hair, and also pajamas LOL!!
>>I thought this was good but reaI was actually trying to tone down the tugging a bit and let him do the work without me moving the toy around too much and my vocals kind of followed suit. Is that okay or should I be more vocal? I also wasn’t sure if too much talking would distract him, but I guess that’s something I could experiment with as I get to know his likes and dislikes.>>
I think this looked great, you were plenty vocal and playful! You can keep adding in the gentle tapping of his sides to get him to pull back more (terriers love that and these little guys are terriers, right? LOL!) For getting the toy back, will he trade for another toy or cookie? Prying it out just builds more drive to clamp down on it 🙂 And when he does let go of it, you can offer the next toy from the pile. Or a boring cookie to see if he will eat it then get back on the toy, all good skills to have for future training.
Backing up:
>> One question for now though, is the backing up onto an object going to be mostly for the purposes of training a 2-on/2-off contact or for something else? I kind of want to know where we are going with that one in terms of backing up ON to something.>>
Good question! While backing up onto something is nice for a future 2o2o… I use it more for general back foot awareness and weight shift. My bigger pups only have a 2o2o on the teeter (the little one does a 4on for the teeter) and they run all the other things – I have found this backing up game to be super helpful for the running contact training which relies on specific placement of the back feet (and weave training and jump work and conditioning work and so on and so on – and also for back foot placement on the box turn for flyball!). So it is good for general body awareness even if you don’t want to do a 2o2o, and it can be applied a whole bunch of different places.
As you found, there are a number of ways to teach this and it looks like this method kind of ‘clicked’ for him! I went to this method because I couldn’t get my Papillon to back up with any other method I had used LOL! Because he is little, we really want to keep his head down – you can help him by keeping your hands even lower, almost dangling then so you can toss really low so the treat lands between his front feet – we want him looking down and not up, so reward placement will help him. Think of his front feet as a hockey goal and you are trying to flick the treat low into the goal.
Backing up onto the thing: I think he did his best when you started him really close to it so all he had to do was step back up onto it. You can also start him with all 4 feet on, lure his front feet off, and let him put his front feet back on (also great for a 4on teeter behavior!). Then build it up to all 4 feet off, so he steps his back feet on. He was really beginning to get it! He was also showing that it was difficult, by getting close to it but not ON it LOL!!! So keeping it simple for now will help – we don’t need distance on this skill at this stage, just understanding and body awareness.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> Hmm, about the only thing I have available is one of the cushions (about 2’x2′ and 4″ high) from an old couch that I use for some conditioning work at times. Other than that it would be a fit bone or use a couple of my smaller balance disks.>>
Perfect, couch cushions work? Or a folded up box or a bunch of towels… goats don’t cate what they climb on, so we don’t need to play goat games on dog-specific stuff LOL!! I think the balance discs and fitbones require a core strength and balance that a 16 week old puppy does not yet have, so do this with stable surfaces for another month or so with more limited interaction with unstable surfaces.
I >>just pulled a variety of different things together in the bucket to see what she would do. She actually likes tugging on the leash and tugs pretty hard on it, but it’s always been done when she is wearing it so not so it’s not bunched up. >>
Yes, she definitely said the context was way different with the leash.
>>Don’t have many long toys at the moment.
Shopping! Or, tie several toys together – a shorter toy to a longer toy.
>>I still don’t have a great idea of what types of tugs are more or less fun for her. Will try to build an order that offers more fun after less fun.
Because she likes movement, the longer toys that move more with the softer things to grab easily are at the top of her list at the moment. The toys that are harder to grab, smaller, with your hand right there… lower on the list at the moment.
On the videos:
Goat game wobble board:
This is a good set up! Get it for tossed treats and also having her go back and forth for the toy is fun for her too. Do you have a marker for when you want her back on the toy? I add in a “bite” marker. You can wait for her to offer getting back on the thing after the get it cookie rather than just smack the toy, so the toy is ,ore of a reinforcement of what she offers and less of a lure for this.
And, bear in mind that you can shape the whole session with the toy!2nd session:
Bear in mind that you do not need to make this harder each session. It can stay where it is for several sessions. She totally noticed the change in movement and got more tentative. So for your next session – just leave it here, don’t go down to 1 mat under it. My general rule with puppies is to get at least 2 sessions in a row of super high rate of success (90% or better of high level confident offering) before I change anything. She was starting to offer by the end here, but really only front feet because there was more motion. So don’t change anything on the next session, or you risk her beginning to overthink it. Instead, just do another couple of sessions like this til she is slamming it all around, then change something a tiny tiny bit. I think using toys only for this will be better than food- it is just more exciting and action-packed for her, so she moves more and thinks less 🙂Driving ahead session:
She did great with the driving ahead! Nice job being connected to her, releasing her when she was looking ahead, and she was great about driving ahead without any worry about your motion. SUPER!!!! Add more distance whenever you get a moment and have space to do it.
About the running off with the toy.. Bearing in mind that this is a drive ahead game and not a retrieve game: You don’t have to ask her to retrieve it, you can just get in there and play play play. You got to the toy with her then turned and ran away. By running away, you asked her for a skill she does not have and added failure to an otherwise great session on the skill you wanted to train. So when she arrives at the toy, reach in and play with her rather than ask for a retrieve. You were close enough to be able to do that here, she only ran off when you asked for the retrieve. If in the past she has taken off with the toy when you reached for it, then yes – make it a REALLY big toy by tying a bunch of toys together so she gets one end and you get the other. But even with a really huge toy or a toy on a line… don’t ask for a retrieve with this game, just play. The retrieve can be trained separately and that way you can build up both skills.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there! This was an insightful session! He wants you to help more by indicating; we want him to offer more so we don’t have to indicate as much 🙂
I think at the beginning he probably put himself in a stay (and a couple of other times during the session) so start with some play so that he doesn’t put himself in a stay or a cookie toss away (like you added later on).
You caught yourself with t he ‘yes’ marker 🙂 Correct, try to just say “bite” and not yes – we all have the ‘yes’ habit LOL! But the reinforcement markers will be more effective for training.
Tossing the get it cookie was great because it got him moving and so you got less of a stay behavior. It was interesting to see how much stay he offeredL stay and attention on your face. So, you can help him offer more as that will boost confidence and strengthen commitment even more!
Definitely more shaping is on tap so you can get him to offer movement without the stay he is offering. Do the shaping without a wing, do it on something random where there is potentially less value for a stay behavior – a box or a balance disc or anything random. Then we can easily slide the wing back into the reinforcement procedure, after you have established movement as part of it.By the end, he was totally starting to get it! Yay! He was still looking up at you, a bit suspiciously LOL!!! OK maybe not suspicious but definitely with questions. I think if you are sitting on the ground or on a low chair, he will be better with his head low and looking for the object and not at you.
Great job getting this started! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Thanksgiving was nice and quiet here 🙂 Hope yours was good too!
>> I’ve been rewatching the Week 2 videos this afternoon…and had to laugh when you talked about planning our sessions especially in light of your feedback on our session a few days ago. I really wanted to get some video for you and didn’t do a good job of planning, didn’t have a toy that we had been doing “Yours” with only the one that I usually throw ….. and there I am hanging it out in the air trying to figure out what to do with it! AHHHH!!!!! >>>
Ha! Planning, planning, planning – that is probably 90% of training and the “do” part if 10%. Good planning is the best rehearsal for a great session 🙂
>> somedays I’m pretty sure it’s a miracle that my dogs put up with me at all 🙂
Totally relatable. There are some days where I am so grateful that my dogs have things sorted out much better than I do LOL!
>> he loves Catch….I was thinking that we’d play it in front of a tunnel as well as it seems that tunnel starts are pretty common these days.>>
Yes! If you are going to do AKC agility, then you must work this in front of a tunnel. It is a popular design element! I have not seen it as much in USDAA or UKI but it is worthwhile to train anyway.
>>I had a question about the Placed Reinforcement application. In the video you are using Get it – your reinforcement word. When/how do you swap to the verbal that you are using the placed reinforcement to help teach?>>
In a nutshell… as soon as you have behavior that is pretty much the concept of what you want: name it before you give whatever cue is eliciting it.
Do you mean in the video where Hot Sauce (black/tan terrier with folded ears) is doing the 360 circle wrap with the ball on the ground? In that video, I was giving her verbal cue (digdigdig) as I was starting each rep – it is a quiet cue, and the get it is much louder (and jubilant haha).
So as soon as you can elicit the behavior with Sly? Slap on the verbal 🙂
If you mean the shaping video with Elektra (black/white small dog with stick-up ears) going back and forth around the wing with 2 toys – that was an early session and I wanted her to offer because I was not sure I would get the behavior, so no verbal yet there. Verbal could easily be tacked on though, because she was offering easily.>> One of our winter projects is to get serious about our various verbals for turns off his dogwalk. I’m planning on using his MM for a lot of it so this class is perfectly timed >>
It sounds easier than it is, but basically it is:
Establish the reinforcement procedure
Get the behavior within that procedure, eliciting it however you need to (I use a flyball jump on the line I want the dog to turn to after the DW, and the MM is out past the flyball jump :)).
When you can reliably elicit the behavior – add the verbal right before you elicit it. Then if needed, you can fade out whatever is used to elicit it.We can definitely be talking about the specifics of how to do this!
Tracy
Hi!
>> The part I don’t know how to do is “build in a lot of value for when you have to do a lot of turns and stopped obstacles in a row,” Do I do this with a remote reward by starting with one obstacle and then reward and then build up to two and three, etc. Or do I try to have places where I reward throughout a sequence with Loys of turns and stops?>>
Part of this is yes, build up a ton of reinforcement for the start and middle of sequences, especially on jumps and turns, and when you are initially moving away from the reinforcement.
And the other part is working to a very complete understanding of remote reinforcement particularly in a trial setting, so they can do 1-20 with speed and focus.More on both of these coming on Monday but for now, the main thing is the foundation remote reinforcement procedures where they can move away from reinforcement and even do a couple of tricks before you mark and run back to it.
>>PS I got a chance to try the flirt pole with both dogs on the agility field. I ran with it and I tried to make it look like a pray animal. They were not interested in the slightest. I think I am going to have to tryout inside when they are really bored and then maybe they will build an interest.>>
Will they play with it inside? And outside, did they chase it even a little? You can reward that tiny bit of chasing as a behavior: they do it, you then reward by whipping out a real high value reinforcement (food or a ball).
Tracy
Hi! The main difference is that the different markers will tell her where to look, what to do, where to be.
“You’re free” is not necessarily a reinforcement marker: it is a ‘release from the a-frame and carry on per the next cue’ verbal. It always means drive forward to something relative to you (you are physically and/or verbally providing the next cues). The ‘catch’ marker specifically means “that was correct, stay there, reward coming to you with me out here” and the use of it is that it builds value for being there at the bottom of the frame, while you are way ahead and moving past. The ‘you’re free’ release builds value for hitting target position, but in learning – everything between the marker (‘you’re free’) and the reward delivery gets built into the behavior – so with the release forward, you are potentially building in drive off the frame which is not what needs more value here… it is staying on the frame, right? The catch placement will help that value because it is all about “stay over there, reward is coming there” so she is less likely to want to anticipate and self-release.
Let me know what you think!
TracyThere is always a need to caffeinate!!
Send me the info by email when you have a moment!
Agilitydals@yahoo.comThanks!!
Hi!
>>okay for some reason all of my post controls are gone
That’s odd – sometimes if there is an internet glitch or something is slowed down, the site won’t load fully because it is big? It is working fine here so let me know if the glitch continues and I will send it to the tech guy.
>>I’m not sure I fully understand what you mean by this.
Wait, you want feedback AND you want it to make sense? That is crazy. HA! Jk.
>>In the early part of this session, you can totally keep moving so you and the reinforcement are not near each other and also so there is not a sudden explosion of motion when you add motion (that was part of the reason he went through the wing)>
You were moving to the wing, stopping, then accelerating quickly. Try to move at a steadier pace so you never stop, you can just fold in right behind his tail and keep moving the whole time. Let me know if that makes sense or if I need to caffeinate 🙂
>I hope you and your 2+fourlegged fam had a happy thanksgiving!
It was good, ran around outside then got back in pajamas, cooked, ate. Hope yours was good too! We should probably talk about the seminar dates in NoLa and see what we can make happen!
Tracy
