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Good morning! This is a great update with Fever! It sounds like he did really well in a high octane environment (surrounded by an abnormally high level of arousal in the humans and the dogs at NAC :)) Interesting about the pressure in the cookie-taking – it sounds like he was in a great state of arousal and it also sounds like the pattern games were magic for him! Huzzah!
>>He was definitely less snappy but did offer eye contact. He was readily doing all of his tricks for cheese but wasn’t feeling a ton of tug. >>
This is great – I am not concerned about the tugging because that is not nearly as important as the engagement and eating! YAY!!!
And yay for the dock games too, I bet he was happy to get to play.
What is next on his calendar in terms of training or trials, so we can plan some things 🙂
Poor Callie! Was she ouchie before NAC or did it happen at NAC? I am glad she is feeling better!
Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning! I think he did well here!! I am happy with all the reps and really loved his little twitch of excitement before the relesae on the last one 🙂
>> he would have done just as well without I think.
Yes, but he was not sad about having it 🙂 You can throw it back to him from the longer lead out and you can also release him forward to it sooner – no need to ask for as much duration yet.
>>do u see in the second clip he puts his nose down to have a little sniff of the grass .. and this is an area he knows so well but it is public. At a trial he will get up and follow the scent
Yes- no worries. It might have been a bit of leftover behavior from the past, or that you were not as connected as you left him as you were on the first rep, or he needed a couple more tricks before you set him up, or he was smelling the odor of the fod ball. He fixed himself and lifted his head without help, which is a big win!!!
>>So my line up routine is to walk in saying ‘break break break’ when I’m walking and when I stop he sits automatically .. then break is my release word?
So break is an engagement word and the release word? I am confused LOL!!! You can walk in saying something like ‘ready ready’ or something silly but save break for the actual release.
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> It looks a little too much like obedience – which is not a bad thing, except I think he will need more ‘volume dial’ so yes, the spins and twirls and tricks can really help! It is something to experiment with and see which tools are best.
>> I can train with a trainer on Thursday
Perfect!!! You can take these games to new places – particularly the pattern games, the volume dial and the leash off engagement game, as wel as some remote reinforcement.
>>I have a big agility event on Saturday – if the grounds dry out. I’ll make sure to get video this time.
Yay! We can set goals for Saturday. I think a good goal is to see if you can simply get offered engagement when you take the leash off – then take off and run 🙂 No need for long stays yet like you did here, we can add those easily when we have engagement. And we can also check and see how he does with he various tricks and pattern games with that environment, to assess which tools work best at the moment. Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Lots of great stuff here in these videos! And I remembering correctly that really quiet environments are actually harder for her? She did well!
Some thoughts for you:Instant Focus looked lovely! She is beginning to look to offer behavior immediately rather than assess the environment. Same as you added the leash off game: You didn’t lose her on that first rep – she was going towards the jump when the leash came off, offering interaction with the jump. Pretty cool! So, when taking the leash off and not wanting obstacle interaction, be about 10 feet from any obstacle so she doesn’t think it is an offering game on the obstacle.
Planning ahead – the next set of leash off games should have cookies in pockets rather than in your hands 🙂 Yay! But still be quick with the rewards like you were here.
2nd video – yes, a little mechanics blooper at the beginning but same as what happened on the first video: she was heading to the weaves, you didn’t lose her. I think she was offering some weave action. So if you do the leash off super near an obstacle, she is offering the obstacle. That is fine – just be further from the obstacles because we really don’t want her to offer the obstacles at this stage.
3rd video –
>> I didn’t give cookies after taking of the leash in this session,>>
For conditioning purposes, give a cookie every time for a while – either from your hand like you did on the earlier videos or directly as RR like you did on the first rep here. I think we are seeing some shifts in her conditioned responses, in a good way!!!
For the RR combo – mixing this into obstacle training and sequence training is great! Be sure tp do lots of reps where you have nothing in your pockets or hands, and no target plates on the ground (those are all tipoffs about availability of reinforcement which is fine for some training stuff but also we want her to be able to train/run without cues for reinforcement availability in the ring. Mix it all up – I do plenty of training with the reinforcement visible with me in the ring, and mix in sometimes having nothing and using the RR cue. That “mom has nothing” becomes a cue for the RR game, which the dogs find clarifying as well!
I think she did really well on all of this! And you were moving around a lot more in the volume dial stuff, and that worked well too!
A thought about structure of the handling training here (and classes/seminars too):
>> we also practiced and rewarded frequently for wraps –>>
Wraps are a skill that requires the dog to do something incredibly difficult (and having to slow way down to do it), with the handler not moving much – and also wraps are also a skill that we really don’t use that much on course… so I realize that a lot of instructors work the daylights out of wraps but I see no reason to with her, until after the ‘run as fast as possible’ is fully installed 🙂 We want her to run as fast as she can and enjoy feeling the wind in her hair – so for now, have all of your handling be run fast, take things in front of her, big go go go lines that are not technical, with you also hustling. Same with threadles 🙂 they don’t fit the wind-in-hair plan. Set up the handling training so she can BLAST through a sequence and not slow down. (Dogs her size don’t really need to turn tight, but that is a separate topic LOL!!)
And one of the other ways to get the wind-in-your-hair, joy-of-running-fast feeling from the dogs? Jump at a lower height (below shoulder height) until you have the speed you want in training and trials. I will be sure to discuss it more in the next set of games, as we are having this discussion on a lot of threads here. Jumping full height is hard, especially is the dog is jumping above her shoulder height – organizing jumping, watching handling, dealing with environment… eek! So we can take out one variable to make it easier to be successful with the stuff we can’t take out or control (environment!) – and dropping the jumping height in training and trialing will do that. All of my dogs begin their careers at lower height until I see the speed and focus I want: first in training, then in trialing. Then, when I love what I see in training at full height, I will mix in some full height jumping in trials and eventually get to full height in all runs. Totally great for confidence building for the dogs!!! And UKI has made it reinforcing to do that, because all points earned at any height count towards the titles 🙂 It might be the same for other venues too. Food for thought! If she is jumping 16 here, I would jump her 12 until you have the engagement you want! We want her to look at the 12″ bar and say to herself: that looks easy, giddy up!!!
She had a big day yesterday, so do some easy stuff today. Take a breath is a good one, maybe some pattern games because they are easy and we want her responses to be pretty reflexive! I like to alternate training days to let the dog mentally rest and cement the learning.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>Today toy stayed out and we struggled more. More looking around and slower to engage. Most people looking at the runs wouldn’t see the problem, but I’m betting it will be obvious to you when I post tomorrow.>>
Well, it is good that most people didn’t see any issue because so many people are the FIRST to point out any little issue LOL!!! #FunnyNotFunny
I am guessing it is partially the change in environment (running order) as well as the day two tiredness. Mental fatigue is a REAL THING. A flyball teammate has a really lovely young dog that is almost ready to start. In a midday warm-up yesterday, he was sniffing near the box and then on the full practice run, he went over and started sniffing around the other team’s dogs. He had been really perfect for a day and a half but as you know – flyball tournaments are intense! My teammate wanted to put him in again for the last race of the weekend and I had to convince her not to, thankfully with the support of our local flyball big name trainer. Brain tired youngster! There is some science behind it by anecdotally – I know that we humans get brain tired and so do dogs. A full day of intense focus followed by a day of harder environment might have made it harder for Lanna. But overall – a TON of successes for her!!!
>> She did the obvious stuff: stayed, kept bars up, and did a nice approximation of agility; but her jumping was worse and she ran past a jump on run 2 that I can guarantee was a I can’t think about collection vs mom’s handling is subpar.
Yeah, sounds like young dog tired brain stuff indeed. To dial down challenge when the internal or external environment might dial up challenges, you can run her at a lower height on the days where she will NOT be first in the running order. She will develop the mental stamina, no worries. Sometimes with the baby dogs on day 2 I just do a full run of only tunnels LOL!
>>2 of 3 runs the dog before her couldn’t be caught and the third was one of the fastest in our area.
OMG that makes things challenging!
>> On the positives you will see Teresa on multiple videos and she is choosing to disengage.
I noticed Teresa on your videos! It was great to see Lanna abasically ignore her (sorry, Teresa, not sorry hahaha)
>>She held her stays, was able to tug with a loose sheltie in the ring, and didn’t completely implode when the loose Aussie charged the gaiting near us then I ran out of cookies because it took forever to catch the dog (this is why fixing this is important to me).>>
OY! That all certainly interrupts the routine. In those moments – I leave the start area, and do a brief re-start of the routine. If that means asking for more cookies from people nearby and causing a little delay as I bring the youngster back into focus? Yep! It sucks that there was a delay because two dogs were struggling, but we don’t want that to bubble over to your dog’s time in the ring. I put a big smile on my face and don’t rush back to the line 🙂
>>For pattern game I am cuing first cookie by standing or verbal, rest is uncued.
Perfection!!!! Her engagement seemed to be happening so fast that it was hard to tell – that is great!
>> I bought licky mats to try, she isn’t a huge fan of the snuffle mat.
Same with my crew – but they like the licky mats so far!
>>Pip was a horrendous demand barker from the day I got him from the shelter (and demand biter). I got rid of the biting, but never the barking, let’s just say I am suffering from PTSD.>>
Ha! Yes, I totally understand the PTSD 🙂
>>Jen Pinder April 9
Jumpers Workshop Beth/Diane April 16
Monica Bush May 6
Wags UKI May 7
Lucky Dog UKI May 22-23
Kerry Smith May 27 (Teresa’s)>>OK great!! and the next 2 seminars will have multiple runs so you can install the bigger pieces of the toolbox as she comes into the ring. And because she loses some jumping organization when the distractions are higher, you can consider jumping her at 10 or 12 in the higher distraction situations so that she doesn’t have to devote much brain energy to jump height.
In your spare moments this week, keep working the offered engagement when the leash comes off, with food/toy in your pocket (empty hand) and you can also start to stuff the food/toys into pockets when you are playing the other games. It is OK for her to know they are there, but they won’t be visible. And you can have a 2nd toy and treats at a reward station. And I think the other thing on tap was going to be playing with 2 balls and see how that went 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Remote reinforcement looked fabulous! The leash on didn’t bother her at all and it is great practice to just have it in the picture. She did well on all of this – the only thing I can think of to add at home is:
You can also be walking away as long for something if she has a trick she can do while you are both moving, rather than in front of you – picturing the two of you moving to the line and you ask her to spin at your side or something while you both move.Instant focus was also great – that was a REALLY hard environment and it took her a heartbeat… but she got to work! YESSSS! That is why we do instant focus – to shorten the environmental assessment time in favor of quick offerings of trained behavior. SUPER!
>> We also have some rented practice time in a novel place. So: leash off with cookies visible and pattern games that bring up her heart rate in a good way before we start weaves? Magic cardboard as well I image but just once?
Fun times today!!!! The very first moment can be instant focus. Then yes – pattern games outside the ring. And have a reward station set up the whole time, even if you don’t use it the whole time. Just have it there and use it sometimes: you can sometimes do a bit of remote reinforcement and sometimes run with cookies in your hands to reward in the ring. And each an every time, bring her to the start area on leash and take the leash off again so you can pair sooooo many cookies with the engagement after the leash comes off.
If your goal is to do weaves – pattern games won’t put her in the right state unless she is very distracted by the environment. Volume dial games should do that, if the environment is not distracting. Bring her heart rate way up LOL!! But is she struggles with the environment – yes to pattern games first. Then when you have her engagement, do a bit of volume dial tricks and have a really high rate of reinforcement session on the weaves.Great job! Let me know how it goes today!
TracyGood morning! Sparky was awesome here! Lots of real world distractions and he was perfect.
The cookies can be in your pocket now (I think they were on a few of the reps anyway). I don’t have any other feedback other than telling you how great the session was 😁 In the next session, you can wait one more heartbeat before reaching for the pocket to help prolong the engagement. I LOVED the barking dogs in the background, what a fabulous distraction even if the person taking the video was telling them to be quiet LOL!!!
What do you have coming up in terms of classes or practice runs? We can start planning more fun! Looking forward to the line up games – great job here!
TracyGood morning! This looked really good!
I think the timing and correct words can be challenging for everyone, especially as the spot evolves and we add MORE words 🙂
One thing that helps with correct and timely verbals is to do walk throughs several times without the dog. Then when can run it correctly without the dog… then we add the dog 🙂 that helps us sort all the verbals and timing out really well.
The Bluetooth mic is awesome!!! So clear!!!Lots of good work on the videos here, his commitment is lovely and you were really strong with the verbals and timing!
On the Go reps – when using the toy, you can throw sooner, as soon as he is in the tunnel. The TnT totally helped as a good focal point when you added it and he gets a MASSIVE GOLD STAR for ignoring it on the left turn tunnel exits, Yay!!
As you work the GO exits, be more connected – yo can exaggerate the eye contact with your dog-side arm back. I think part of his question on some of the exits was that he could not see the connection so he looked at you. Even when you were way ahead at :41, there was not a lot of connection so he was unsure of where to be – the added eye contact will help that.He is doing a great job with the turns on the tunnel exit!!! You can keep saying the verbals earlier, but you can also make them sound different. The GO can be loud and urgent and the left/right verbals can be softer and calmer.
He was a little wide on the very first left at :14 but then pretty perfect on the rest! He did take the extra wing on the way to the tunnel a couple of times (like at :29) but that was where the physical cue sent him, so he was a good boy on that.
Rights also looked good!!! Super nice!
On the racetracks around the wings in both directions (:25 and :55) add more connection with your dog-side arm back, try not to look forward ot point forward. That connection break is causing him to look at you (he isn’t sure which side of you to be on) so you are getting a little bit of a zigzag.
And the very end, he had a little question on that last go but I think it was that there was not enough acceleration or urgency (you were tired :)) so definitely add that to make the go sound very different to help propel him onto the line.
Great job here!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Lots of good stuff here! How did today go?
Yes, starters standard can take a lifetime LOL! Having her do action tricks that early was probably too early, too soon before the run? It is hard to know but that is something (how early to start the tricks) that will reveal itself in the next few weeks too
On question from this video and the other 2 videos because it was a little hard to see: was she offering the engagement in the pattern moments (like the hand to hand cookies, or the up and down moments) or were you cuing it? That will help us plan for what is next.
The other thing I can think of it that sometimes it is a lot of layers of criteria to get the engagement you want and the stay and the first jump… so you can totally mix in tunnel starts! She likes tunnels 🙂 so if you can walk in and she offers engagement when the leash comes off, you can totally just send her into a tunnel and run run run. It is a nice balance to the control of a start line stay.
This is good news about the focus on you at the line! And yes, it is reasonable to make it harder but sounds like the environment did that for you (by changing the running order) and plus she might be mentally fatigued (engagement is definitely tiring :))
When is your next trial/seminar?
Totally understandable about the barking on cue. Was Pip taught the bark as a trick, or does he like to bark? I have not seen the non-stop barking in dogs who have been taught it as a trick, but it is possible that Pip is the first I’ve met LOL!
Keep me posted about how today went!
TracyGood morning!
The jumping form question for now is more a matter of finding the sweet spot of distance for her. Many dogs will stride these grids that way she does and have most excellent jump form on full height jumps course. If she is fast, her mechanics are good and her form is good, then the exactness of foot placement is not a concern 🙂
On the serp versus tunnel versus threadle game:
She did really well! Those threadles were especially fabulous! You can start adding a little motion for those too.
Speaking on motion: When doing the serps versus tunnels, maybe add motion after a couple of successful reps of stationary serps rather than after a couple of tunnel reps to build the value of the potential of motion on a serp even when a tunnel is right there. I think the errors came when there was a moving serp right after tunnel cues. So you can dial up the focus on the serp motion by building it off the stationary serps, and if that goes well we can alternate moving tunnel and serp reps in future sessions. You can also release her sooner on the moving serps so that you don’t end up stopping (because there is a tunnel in your way LOL) – we don’t want her to build that into the cue, so you can release just after you pass the first wing, rather than all the way at the 2nd wing.One other thing to note – I think you were using your get it marker for reward from hand, but I think you have a strike for that? We need a database of everyone’s markers LOL!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
The rear crosses are coming along nicely! All of your GO lines looked great, and also the right turn rear crosses looked great. I agree, the left turns were harder – either because the right is her better side, or she had just gotten all that reinforcement to the right (or both :)) So for the next session – start with the left and see what happens. Do one do where she is in your right side for the Go (which rewards to her left side) then do a rear cross turning her to her left.My only other suggestion is to use your reward markers for the tossed toy rather than a “yes” because we don’t want her looking for a reinforcement on a yes marker.
And I am glad you are having fun with these – that is great considering that I know that rear crosses are totally your favorite thing hahahaha
Serp versus tunnel also looked good – that extra heartbeat seemed to totally help. Next time – be close enough to the serp jump to touch it so that she makes the second turn to the tunnel. Start with one or two without motion, than add motion by assuming the position, then moving, then releasing 🙂
Regarding the grids and toys: It is pretty common for young dogs to be pouncy for the toy, so. I am not concerned – as long as the toy is either slowly dragged or stationary miles away, the pounce won’t be anywhere near the jump (I have not seen a pounce on a dragging toy yet, in two sports LOL)
And because grids are all about mechanics – if something is not working for her, change it up 🙂 You can teach her the spider contraption separately from a jump, especially a spread with another jump past it. That is a lot of visual processing for a baby dog. And you can work the very straight line up on one jump. Starting half the distance away from the jump is the Salo recommendation but I have found that the very close engages the hind end sooner than the halfway distance, when we obsess on video after video, and also disallows disorganization of the front feet. Yes, I like to obsess LOL!!!
Nice work here! Have a great herding day!!
TracyHi! I have a whole bunch LOL
It might be the Aerobie Dogobie, those are great.
I also get cheap fabric frisbees from Tractor Supply because they get destroyed pretty quickly.
THi!
>>Toys and food are allowed. So just do normal start line entrance without any action tricks? And do the tricks before we enter. >>
Definitely play around with pattern games and action tricks outside the ring, while waiting. Any time you see him get distracted, do a few reps of the pattern game.
Then when it is your turn, jog to the line (no tricks) with , take the leash off and see if he offers engagement. If he is able to do it: cookie time
If he is not, ask for a couple of action tricks. You’ve got plenty of time on the start line so don’t feel pressured to start until he is ready.>> For the run, should I keep the reward in pocket or hands?
Since he already knows you have the treats, do whatever is easier 🙂 then at the end, run to reward at your reward station.
Keep me posted!
TracyHi! BOO on the crappy weather but fingers crossed that spring shows up sooooooon!!
Wind in your hair, rear cross edition:
This is great to work on because it really sorts out the handler mechanics! It was a big of too-much, too-little, just-right and lots of really lovely reps.
Looking at the different cues:
For the GO reps, your running line should be on the outside of the wing (not between the uprights at all) and be careful not to be moving to the center of the bar (:02, :05, :31). That pressure to the center of the bar can be a RC or backside and not a GO. You were closest to being on the outside of the bar at :59 but still more pressure than needed for a GO line. So you can send her around the start wing from further away so you can just run forward past the jump.Looking at the RCs:
The left/right verbals are the way to go, no need for a GO on the RCs because it is a different behavior (straight on the same lead versus turn away on a new lead).You had a GO at :10 then your right was when she was over the bar so she was a very girl to turn right as soon as she heard it. And at :35 you were saying GO the whole time but rear crossed – she totally judged you LOL!
:14 – perfect use of verbal. But physical cue (running line) completely supported the backside wrap from the instant she exited the start wing. The same happened at :27. If she does end up on an accidental backside, have her finish the wrap then reward, just to keep that behavior solid so she doesn’t get in the habit of pinging off the jump and getting rewarded from your hand.
You were getting really good with your RC lines:
:18 was better for the RC but a little L-shaped in the running line (straight then center of the bar) so she got it right but was also MILES ahead of you, left you in the dust.
:24 was MUCH better and note how you did NOT get left in the dust – we always want to get ahead again after a RC not be doomed to RCs for the rest of the course LOL
:41 to the left also good – she didn’t turn as well but it could be all of the reinforcement that went to the right earlier in the session .
:46 – super good!:50 – too soon she was not really past you, so she was like WHAT THE HECK hahaha
:56 good! Loved this one!!Definitely keep working the RCs, you’re gonna need them: partially because she is so fast and partially because course design trends are requiring them more.
Serp v tunnel –
Tunnels are so delicious. LOL!!! I think you need a session or two without motion for this, because she was lined up facing the jump and still wanting the tunnel 🙂
So change her line up position for the session session, so she is past the first wing of the jump by a foot or two (the one further from the tunnel) and she should be in a stay facing the tunnel (not facing the jump). Eek! LOL!!! And stand completely still in serp position, release…. and don’t catch her on the toy to prevent the tunnel. Let her choose. If you are stationary and have not said tunnel… there should be no tunnel LOL!
One other thing that will help is if you assume the position for at least 2 seconds before the release. She has a great stay, so get into position (serp with the open shoulder, or tunnel cue with the closed shoulder), smile at her take a breath… then release. The releases and physical cues were coming almost simultaneously which didn’t quite give her enough time to process. So let her see the position for 2 seconds, then release.And if she is very strong with that, we add the motion back in but as with the stationary reps, she sees you moving while doing the physical cue… and after a couple of seconds, you give the release. That should help her processing and also help add motion!
On the grids – was she pouncy to the dragged toy? I did notice that she was pouncy to the dead toy which made her pouncy one the jumps. If she is pouncy on the jumps with the dragging toy… then the toy is too close. The dragging toy is an excellent de-pouncer and should be pretty far away – when you had the toy way far away on the last couple of reps at 12” towards the end – I really liked those!!! Not sure if the toy was stationary or not on those but having it 6 miles away was GREAT. Your training partner 🙂 has been doing Salo grids for decades, literally, and I am sure the dragging toy concept is, um, different hahaha 🙂 I call it ‘evolution’!
I think this spider to the double at the beginning was really hard for her – she is hoisting her hind end more than powering from it and I think it is at least partially because she is getting ready to stop (the dead toy is pretty close and there is a jump right behind it, so she has to decelerate over the spread because she cannot run through the toy. When you added the jump past it, she was using her neck a bit and probably needs the toy further there too. One other thing to watch for on the spider… set her up straight. She was sideways on these, and also looking away on a couple of the releases, and that changed the organization of the step-in moment.
I agree that Doppler’s distances were a bit big and she was happier at the slightly smaller distances. I also think that when the toy is dead in front of the jump, she spends her time thinking about how to decelerate to stop rather than used her hind with power through the grid (it reminds me of the big fast dogs in flyball: when running to the box, it is a game of balanced deceleration because they have to turn). The agility grid should have an exit that she can move through because the mechanics of all that decel are not necessarily what we want on this grid (the dogs get off balance and are thinking about stopping).
I thought the last couple were the best! She didn’t have to stop, she just needed to organize the mechanics.She is double tapping before the first jump sometimes (like at 1:03 but not at 1:18) so be super consistent about where you set her up – organizing without the double tap is great to getting her on her hind end.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyOMG! Cliffhanger! The video shows everything except the run LOL!!! I think the engaged chill went really well. I totally saw her get interested in the big fast BC! In that moment, the pattern game will be your friend. I recommend the short sideways tosses if you are kneeling, and the shoe version (up and down) if you are standing. For dogs that know the pattern games, it totally becomes a cue to engage with you, without actually being a cue to engage if that makes sense LOL!!! Plus it gives her a choice: play the game or engage with the environment.
That is very black and white for us handlers: either she chooses engaging with the game, and then you can move into the more active tricks if you are close to running or back into the engaged chill if you have a while.
If she cannot disengage from the environment, then we move further away from the distraction.
I think she will choose to engage with you!
And right at the gate, as she was ramping up because it was ALMOST TIME TO RUN, you can do one more revisit of the pattern game up and down (cookies on shoes).
It looks like you had good toy play on the line and good engagement!!!! YES!!!
What happened next? LOL!
Great job 🙂
Tracy
