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Good morning!
Thank you for the history!
The yellow jacket incident sounds bad and DAMMIT about the drone. UGH!!!! One repetition learning can totally happen in those situations.And the physiology – I am convinced that there are changes in the dog’s brain and body in those moments, and there are some studies that look at respiration rates, cortisol levels (specific to agility!) and fMRI work with dogs responding to signals. Really cool stuff! Some of it can be added to outside the ring really easily. Some of it is coming into the area between the gate and the start line – and I hope there are more studies coming soon 🙂 Anecdotally, hormones do play a role and I believe you see that too! I don’t think it has been studied in dog sports but there is info about hormones in behavior issues.
About the ring gates – that is great to know! One of my dogs struggles with the gates too, most likely going back to the noise and motion sensitivity she has shown in the past (like when training the teeter and the flyball box). And it cropped up in one of the games (coming next week). So we can keep isolating it and working through it – it sounds like that is pretty much the biggest piece of the puzzle right now, and the spot where you are most likely to see her lose engagement. You have a TON of other tools already in place, this might be the last piece!
Let m know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>> Ok so I went and looked at engaged chill and realised we really don’t have anything close to that.
I am glad we are working on it! There is actually some science that supports the need to have the dogs relax outside the wing (has to do with respiration rates) and plus it gives you a moment to relax and remember the course 🙂
I think he is off to a good start here. You can bring a chair and you can also look around, think about other things. He is totally allowed to look around, assess what is happening around him, etc. At home, do more of that patting around his cheeks and chin rest (without cookies) to make it a nice interactive thing that is not associated with training or work.
Then, you can try it while he is on or near the mat.I have more ideas about engage chill coming next week, so this is a great start and we can keep adding it 🙂
Nice work!
TracyDoes she smash herself getting to the balls? I put tennis balls inside big hollee rollers so they are easier to grab. And I also use those giant Kong tennis ball type games, they are shaped like sticks or barbells. Those work well for dogs that love tennis balls!
You can also throw a long toy or place a toy on a line so it is easier to grab 🙂
T
Hi! Super nice session here!!! Practically perfect 🥰
His two errors were on the dig dig wraps. I love how you just did a quick reset cookies, then tried again. It gave him feedback of “try again” with no frustration 🙂 yay!!! Since dig dig left turns are harder, you can totally help with a bit of handling in the form of rotstion/front cross.
Everything else looked great so let’s add more action 🙂
You can do that by running more with the rewards (dragging a toy!) – that will raise the excitement level of the game in general which will challenge him to still processing the cues even though he is more aroused.And, you can add handling: send to the tunnel and run, meet him at the exit and handle either the wrap, or send to the tunnel again
He’s gotta listen AND run LOL! Should be fun for you both!!!Great job here 🙂 Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
You can add a go verbal if you are running and you are pretty sure she will take the jump.
About the toy… what does she do when you throw it? If she won’t bring back a placed or thrown toy, the time is better spent teaching the retrieve at this stage, rather than bandaiding it 🙂 all the handling games will be easier if you get a retrieve going, even if it is trading for a 2nd toy.
THi again!
>>I am having a hard time with markers – partly because Of what we do in obedience and keeping it clear tho that’s on me. So I use a search cue for find treat in floor- mostly for reset cookie. a get it cue- I realize I use it in context of impulse control so like release to a toy in my hand or from a sit or control position.>>
Let’s make a list! I have been SUPER happy with how my short list of markers has helped my 3 baby dogs. I say get it for treats or toys on the ground out ahead. Catch is thrown back to them (treat or toy, I rely on the brilliance of the dog rather than my own lack of brilliance trying to remember different words. For stuff in my hand – it is critical that toy driven dogs know what to do in that moment, so I have a word for cookies in my hand (“snacks!”) and for the toy in my hand (“bite”) This has been SO helpful.
>> My last 3 dogs have never had issues but doesn’t mean I’m not open to changing I just not sure where I want to break that line down.
I didn’t think my other dogs has issues, but I will say that they had questions/frustrations and the baby dogs don’t. And they remind me every time Voodoo grabs my flesh by accident because he doesn’t know for sure if it is the cookie or toy (OUCH!) and CB never ever does that because it is so clear.
>>What do you use for say a release to you- maybe they are coming to you and not ahead. Maybe they are in a stay and you want them to break to you for whatever reason?
My fancy cue for that is “break” LOL! which means – come to me, no reinforcement available, stay tuned for more info.
>>Yes the sits- what is said here stays here like in Vegas 🤣
What happens in MaxPup, stays in MaxPup! LOL!
>>but I regret doing some of the obedience stuff first because it mucked up my cues and yes it’s way more body language. But it was I needed to get this puppy into a class setting quick and didn’t want to upset the instructor. It’s not a bad thing just is what it is and I need to make adjustments for her. She is a dog of you do x,y,z three times and that’s imbedded for life with her :).>>
Ha! You can totally make the adjustments to verbal cue- then – hand signal without the instructor even noticing LOL!
Hi!
On the set points – I agree, the 16 bar and moving target were not ideal! Part of it is the addition of the moving target, and part of it is the start position – any time she ‘double taps’ one or both of her front feet (on this video or any of the others) she lands short on the first jump(because she is not on her rear at that point) and then has to carry hr rear over the 2nd jump. Any time she lifts form the rear? Much better form. I think at :13 on the first video where she did not double tap, that was the best jumping effort. She dropped the bar on that one (probably the 16″ bar plus the moving target made it harder) but I liked the form better than the double tap reps.
Same on the 2nd video: any time we get a double tap, the form is not as good even on a 12″ bar (I think the 5 foot distance was a little short here perhaps?) The 2nd and 3rd reps had no doubletap and they were good! You can see how the double tap causes her to land short on the first jump and then carry her hind end on the 2nd one at :41.
I would be curious to see 5.5 feet and 12″ bar in the next session, starting her really close so she can’t double tap her front feet 🙂
The handling game looks good, you made it all about the fast and FUN!!!
For the Go exits of the tunnel – throw sooner, as soon as she is in the tunnel so she doesn’t look at you (like at :44, that was great – giddy up!!!) You did a great job matching your acceleration to the go verbal. You can also match the handling cue of moving away laterally to the left and right verbals to help her process those too – you were facing a bit straight on those at :13, :20. :25 for example, and especially at :46 where you were facing straight and accelerating. So when she is about 5 or 6 feet from the tunnel entry, you can be saying the verbal and moving away to the next wing.
I think she likes the racetracks here! Her facial expression was all “WHEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!” So fun!Fingers crossed that the gross weather is only for a few days and then it is back to spring! Great job here!
TracyHi! A ton of good stuff happening in this video!!!!
I am really impressed with her stay, when you put the cookie and toy on the ground, and even more so during the moving target game. YES!!!
Her jumping coordination looked pretty good so far – it was a little hard to see from the front but she didn’t look off balance at all. When using food as the target, get low with the food as you release to help keep her head down (I like her head position on the moving target much better anyway :))
>>Chata sits are weak. I am working on some different ways to motivate and maintain. I swear there’s something in the Vizsla DNA. She gets it with treats- I posted some intermittent treat sits so you can see she’s way more confident. >>
Watcing this video with that in mind… I don’t think she understands the verbal as the sit cue, I think she is associating it with a body cue.
Like at :29 on the first video, when you raised your hand and leaned into her. And raised the hand at 2:15 and 2:23 too 🙂On the 2nd video, you raised the cookie at :05 and :23 to get the sit. At :48, you raised the cookie hand but the toy was dangling so she was not as sure. Also, raised cookie hand at 1:29 and 2:06 got the sits 🙂
So… I think your current sit cue is a hand signal especially when a cookie is involved.
No worries though!
>>>> I am working on some different ways to motivate and maintain.
Use the hand signal to help her: say the verbal sit cue then after 1 second, use the hand signal. New cue (verbal) will come to predict the current cue (hand signal) and then you can easily fade the hand signal – just be sure that verbal and hand are not simultaneous!
>>Also- I’m seeing a timing issue of my cue so will adjust on that.
Yes, she needs a momen to be ready, especially after eating or tugging 🙂 Speaking of tugging – play tug with her more rather than letting her shred the toy. Build the engagement while saving money on toy replacements at the same time LOL!
Question about the reward marker ‘get it’ – does it mean to get the toy/treat ahead of her or the one tossed to her? I think separate markers will help clarify for when things get more complicated. I use ‘get it’ for out ahead and ‘catch’ when I am throwing it to the dog.
the wind in your hair game looked great! The wraps look good, definitely happier! I think she did well with the toy present – no thinking issues, just mechanics challenges. You can ramp up the cnonection on the wrap, especially when she is turning to her right – that was harder for whatever reason. Either it was a more challenging side, or you have more value being on your left side than on your right (or both?) But you did a great job of adding more connection and breaking down the turn after she had questions at 2:56 and 3:01 on the wing wraps.
I think you are ready to add more running to this one! Wheeee! Be sure to get the connection like you did here… then run run run 🙂 You can place the toy out ahead to help her find the line, because you will be at the wing and helping her make the connection.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> I don’t acknowledge the mistake (my fault yes) but I should be treating.
If it is a training error, like she pops out of weave poles – you can call her back, reset at your side to line up, give a cookie for the line up, then try again.
For a handling error, where something goes wrong in a sequence like this? That is 99% of the time going to be the fault of us humans, so you can just reward her decision right there as if it was completely the correct decision (because it was LOL!)
Have fun!
TracyHi Wendy! These look great!
On all the reps: your connection was terrific on the wings! Your verbals sound great!! She was not distracted by the toy in your hand. YAY!!
You can add more connection to the tunnel exit – your running line was good here and she saw the wing after the tunnel, but remind yourself each time that as soon as she goes into the tunnel, the next place to look is at the exit and not at the wing.The left and rights were going well! On the first right turns, your arm got a little high and that distracted her – but then on the others, you arm was in a great position, connection was lovely and she got it. Super! You can add even more motion to it: run faster without sacrificing the connection or verbals 🙂 You can also spread things out so both of you have more speed.
Great job here!!!
Tracy2nd run – all good by keep yoru arm down for th ‘right’ and lookat her on the utnne exit
left was better yo ucan run more on those! and then the righ at the end looked good
Hi!
>>Nikita did 6 blinds on a Jww course. Help!!
6 blinds? FUN! But 24″ AKC spacing is really challenging.
>> Any seminars coming up ?
I have the summer stuff but haven’t figured out topics yet – the two weekends are July 30-31 and Aug 6-7 near Greensboro NC.
On the video –
He is good at turning in a circle on the flat – reward each one s he doesn’t get dizzy LOL! I think you were using a general around cue which is fine, because it is not the same as your jump directionals.On the go versus left – add motion 🙂 Standing still and sending was too easy for him 🙂 try to be moving through the serp line (landing side of the left turn jump) to get both the go and the serp – if you close your shoulders forward and yell go go go, he should layer the jump (you can throw the toy early or place it out ahead to help start the behavior. And for the left into the serp, you can use serp handling (open shoulders and connection) to help him come in. Start this by sending away to the start wing so it is easy to get in position without having to run too fast. Then flip the setup so he still has a right turn option for the go versus the right as well.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Well she’s over the place behavior and is back to normal lol!!!
Teenagers. Sigh. HA!
She did well on the circle wraps! A couple of ideas for you:
Start further back so she can drive the line ahead of you – you were too close at :07 and :30 and then made a really good adjustment to move further away!
>> I wonder if she thought maybe I was rearing on the left side?
Yes, in some moments, I think that was part of it – there is a great angle at 2:14 where you were very close and rear crossed her before she had a chance to lock onto the wing – she was a good girl to do the wrap anyway, but starting a solid 10 feet or more away will help her have more time to get to the wing.
Also, start on more of an angle so she can see the entire wing – you can be on an angle kind of in line with the far wing of the jump. You were putting yourself on the line to the wing, so she couldn’t see the full wing – so when you didn’t move as much, she got it but when you moved faster, your line pushed her off the wing.
The last section has a clear angle on it: At 1:4 and 1:55, your foot/leg was on the line that she needed to be on, which puts too much pressure on it for her.
Also the tunnel was out there on some of the reps, so she might have been having a hard time turning away from the tunnel? But I bet if you started further back and on an angle, it would not be a problem.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> And you can see how the other ring behaviors later in the course all refer back to the start line.
yes – but not just the stay, also some generalized anxiety about the people and dogs and stuff behind her there.
>>As you know I have been working closely with Perry and Jessica on this start line protocol and yes it is not working but Jessica insists we are close. I am not sure exactly how to judge this but we have amped up the pressure in class which I think is contributing to the ring improvement although I can’t say for sure it is exactly improving the start line.>>
I think making the classes more trial-like and less like a library definitely helps, because it allows her to get reinforcement on course with those trial-like distractions present (especially because they run trials there).
>>Leaving the building and the collar grab came from them. I know that that the one collar grab in the video looked awful but it was better than letting her wander off – i know it adds to stress.>>
Since she is getting a LOT of collar grabbing (punishment, which could also be a positive punishment because it is not necessarily a good feeling) and if you find yourself leaving the building a lot – then we want to take the punishment out of the picture and put the onus on you, the trainers, to find ways to use positive reinforcement so successfully that you don’t need to punish. And when she truly understands, you won’t need to touch her collar or leave the building.
Personally, I rather the dog wanders off to sniff. Sniffing helps them bring their heads back to a better space and collar grabbing makes things worse. So if my dog needs to tap out, it is bad for my ego but I am basically fine with it, as a dog trainer – in that moment, I cringe but I also need to find a way to teach the dog to want to tap in!
>>I am totally committed to taking this class and doing the exercises but I am going to have to figure out a way to not just throw out their coaching (especially when I am in class).
So in class, tell the instructors that you have a new game for the start line and there is a wager of a bottle of wine in it for you 🙂 What, in class, sets her up for success? Cookies in your hand? Short lead outs? Rewarding more frequently on course? Do that in class and tell them you are going to win a bottle of a fine red from me, and they will be on board (because it is true and maybe you can share it with them hahaha)
>>For example, maybe running away from her when she blows me off so she has to come chase me. Spending more time on the recall training (oy) so I don’t need to use the collar grab.>>
First, change your mindset – she is not blowing you off, that is simply not something that dogs do. If she is tapping out, then she is having a struggle about something. Identify what it is (ideally, before it happens) and reward reward reward by running and moving away from the distraction, before she taps out.
>>One of my theories is that the carrying her in and putting her on the ground is creating a problem. I started doing that to mitigate issues with the leash having to be put in a bucket and to get the leash runner out of the picture.>>
I don’t think it is the carrying her in – it is the bigger picture of the anxiety about people or pressure. So if we tackle the underlying cause, you will see massive improvements!!
>>Here is what I would like the set up to look like. You can’t see but I have treats in my hands to start.
This is a great line up! Be consistent with how you reward and if she sits sideways… who cares, go with it LOL!! You kind of nitpick the exact position and it makes her a little frustrated. Add in movnig forward after she sits (she holds the stay) with you throwing rewards back to her.
Looking forward to more and having to buy you a nice bottle of wine hahaha
Tracy
Hi!
>>Thanks for the insights and plan. We will try these tonight and see how it goes.
Yay! Maybe a classmate can video, or your can bring a tripod?
>> For both of these, bring reinforcement into the ring and do tricks for treats or toys (whichever is higher value in the moment) as you go into the ring
>>At what point would I start the tricks?
Would I do them leash off or on?
In class, he’s in crate so I take him out and put leash on, then walk to start line, take leash off. Other dog finishing might be out if he’s not first. They always have to set the bars for him as he’s only dog his height.>>Such terrific questions! Every dog is a little different… for your first run, try taking him out before his turn and do some tricks outside the ring while he previous dog is finishing. That will get him focused and also let you know which reinforcement he likes at the moment 🙂 Then as you walk in, do a few more tricks for treats. All this is on leash. Then when you think you have his engagement, take the leash off and do another trick or two for treats… then if you think he is focused, try the agility.
If you like what he does, repeat the process for the next run(s). If you don’t like it, mix it up – different reinforcement, different tricks. You can totally experiment to see what works best!
>> Ok, so cookies or toy in hand, not pocket. So I should skip performing weaves obstacles since he does not do those unless inside, right? I never know what other items he may do wrong so I should continue and not correct, right?>>
Yes, yes, and yes 🙂 For now! Let’s make being in the ring an incredibly reinforcing thing 🙂 And if you think he might have an error, you can just skip the obstacle entirely – like the weaves, or if you think he might jump over a contact. You can reward the obstacle before it, do tricks/treats or the whip it game to move to the next part of the course 🙂 then carry on.
>> And check out the remote reinforcement game
Ok, so you want us to do this one now before the other two?>>Yes, let’s move it up to start now, because I think it is one of the critical pieces to figuring out Sprite.
Have fun in class! Let me know how it goes!
TracyHi!
Glad you are enjoying it! You are doing a great job!
>> It will be super hard for me to not ask for attention / engagement but I believe you, so I will keep working on it and will get some video of Tricks for Treats in the quiet training arena tomorrow.
Sounds good! Standing still and letting the dog offer is hard but useful because when it comes down to it… the dogs gets to choose and there is nothing we can really do about it 🙂 They can choose to engage, or not! So these little games should swing things in favor of making the choice to engage.
>>And if time allows I’ll also try the Remote Reinforcement and / or the Volume control because I think those will puzzle me more than others.
Yes, but not in the same session. They are brain-bending games so we don’t want to do them all together.
>> I am at Argus at least twice a week, often quite a bit more, so whenever there is something specific you want me to try let me know. I have an agility class with Jordan and with Jill Crawford, plus a nosework class.>>
This dog has a busier social life than most people I know, myself included haha!! With all that in mind… you need to schedule days where she does nothing in terms of training, and just gets to walk and sniff and pee on things and run around and nap. That time off will prevent depletion and help latent learning. Training everyday is a bad idea, even if it is different skills or sports, because the dogs can never quite get rested and refreshed. For example, my 3 year old dog traveled on Friday, competed Saturday and Sunday, and trainde a couple of skills today. So tomorrow she will get to sleep in the sun, have a sniffy walk or two, and do zero training. There is so much pressure in the dog training world to train something every day and I am against that (and the science is tending towards NOT training every day too :)) because the dogs need to rest in order to cement the skills and be ready to train for the next session.
On the video –
“”Maybe I had a preconceived notion that the hallway wouldn’t work well and I should try again?>>
I thought the hallway worked well – the preconceived notion that it wouldn’t work probably distracted you LOL!
>> Surprised because I can’t get much distance from the treats, but that’s surely your point.>>
Yes – so you split the behavior into just a couple of steps and not lump the behavior into big distances.
>>The antecedent arrangement of setting up the camera, putting the boy dogs away, and getting out treats is a strong predictor of training
and I think you can see she thought we were getting out of the hall and going to the other room – and she was ready to GO.Yes, both are conditioned responses and that is fine 🙂 You can put the boys away 30 minutes sooner (sorry boys) and setup the camera then go look at emails or watch TV before starting the training to help reduce that a bit.
She did really well here! One thing to add is a little more interaction after you feed the reward – you can praise and talk to her! Then put the dish down and walk away quietly. That will help build praise in as an engaging thing too! Picking up the dish, rewarding, then putting it back down before walking away was very helpful to her, basically telling her: this is where the reward is, game on. She was MUCH crisper about moving away from it when you did that (like at 1:35 and 1:42)
>>Then we both thought about my mistake until about 1:00 and she gave up and returned to the food without me (but didn’t steal, hurrah!) >>
She and I were both wondering what you were waiting for there LOL! And then I think she was guessing that perhaps she needed to offer going to the good table? When in doubt, reward, reset, start over.
>>Then a couple of good reps, then at 1:57 I guess I was waiting for her to come further to me, into the dead end of the hall.
She and I were both wondering what you were waiting for there too LOL!!! She fulfilled criteria – moved away fro the food with engagement – so you don’t need to ask for more 🙂 Remember to ping pong and do some really short distances too!
>>I have a question on the Volume Dial game – do you want us to do 5 tricks then assess, then try something else to “adjust the dial” and assess, maybe two or three times back to back like you did in the demo video, so we can see comparison in real time? Or do you want us to just do the 5 tricks, assess, then stop (and repeat something different at a later time)?>>
Try to see if you can get her into the optimal state: if she is engaged and excited after 5 tricks? Cool!! If she is not (looking away, sniffing, scrolling on facebook LOL) then do a couple more to adjust that dial like in the demo. If you can’t get the engagement, no worries, you can end the session. This is a good one to do at class too!
Nice work here! Have fun!
Tracy
