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Hi!
>>I feel like a bit of an idiot. I forgot about focusing on keeping the dog arm down. I was using the incorrect cues all over the place>>
After watching it, I can definitely say you are NOT an idiot LOL! It went pretty well, actually! I think the one step sending stuff just feels awkward because, well, it is 🙂 One step sends are HARD for us humans because we have to be stationary!
I think you might have been a little far from the wing on a couple of the reps at the beginning, and maybe your arm was a little high – she had a couple of questions but she sorted it out nicely. And she definitely did better when you used your verbals, especially as she was exiting tunnels. When you were quiet out of the tunnel, she had questions and tended to go wide.
Yes, a couple of wrong verbals – I was trying to figure out what they meant then I remembered that you mentioned you had mixed them up. No worries! Take a moment between each rep to plan which ones for the next rep, to keep them correct. And remember to say your tunnel cue too.
She was really starting it get it with lots of independence! Also, she has very good forward focus on her lines and that is going to transfer to courses amazingly well 🙂Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Will need to look around and get creative. I think you mentioned a spoon. hmmm.
My Papillons learned their 4on positions thanks to the magic of a spoon and duct tape 🙂 No video, sadly! But it worked like a charm 🙂
Hi! Hope you had a good weekend!
>> although the major lightbulb for me is the holes in the independence that both my dogs have to allow me to get to where I need to be on course.
That was one of the goals of this set of courses – finding independence holes. Now, bear in mind that these were pretty exaggerated challenges – definitely training courses and hopefully NOT competition courses LOL! We will keep training the independence and then it will be much easier 🙂
On the video:
Weaves – she came out on your FC movement at :08 so it was smart training to do the FC again at :19 even though you were planning to reward and had the TnT there. You can leave the TnT out there, randomly and off to the side so it just sits there and blends in – not really a target, but also present as a reinforcement, so she can continue to get rewards for the independent weaving.
I like the line you choice for 12-13 -it looked great! Also at :45! Also a 1:06! As you saw, handling on landing ide of 13 works for 12-13 but puts you way behind on the running frame and she is certainly not going to slow down and wait for you LOL!
NICE blind on the frame at :48, even better at 1:11!
I don’t think her wide turn on the jump after the frame was a timing issue – it was more of a position plus extension issue. You were running hard at :50 and 1:13 and ended up several steps past the wing of the jump. You can decel and stay closer to the exit wing so she gets a nice tight line on the tunnel send there at 16-17.On the line to 20: at 1:21 you had it but needed connection. I think you were scared, totally understandable and relatable 🙂 The spin worked when you isolated it so getting you there would make it perfect. Do you think you can layer the #10 jump to get down there sooner and not be afraid for your life? A more independent dog walk would be needed but that makes it worthwhile to train it!
The BC between the DW and the #19 tunnel turns her to her right, which takes the 20 jump off her line because she would need to be on a left lead for it – the BC between the DW and the tunnel would work if you could make the blind then outrun her to get to the tunnel exit when she is maybe halfway through it – but that is crazy talk LOL!! Blind crossing the exit of the tunnel (safely :)) is the best way, with a tight rear cross wrap on 20 being the 2nd best way to get it.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> I have no idea what the matter was, except it is very hot.>>
After watching, it might be a combination of physically/mentally tired (3 day camps are exhausting) – he made some errors he doesn’t normally make such as missing that weave entry and also check out how he jumped at 1:17 – his hind end went all *ss over teakettle on a relatively simple line. I cannot recall the last time I have seen him do that. So, we chalk some of it up to being a little fried. Add in the 90 degree weather? Yep, not necessarily fully with you on these. But he still worked his heart out!! And there are some things we can smooth out with the handling 🙂
Backside at 3: The threadle looked good at :12 an on run 5 at 1:13! I curious to see if it is faster or slower than a forced front or a german turn there. Feel free to try different ones and compare (we will be doing more of that comparison shopping for best cues in coming weeks).
As you saw, he needed a stronger turn cue at 8 (:22) – you said something loud with energy (I couldn’t quite make out what you said) but he was already in the air there. Much better cues at 1:25! I wonder if a brake arm (left arm coming up to help give him a whoa moment) or even a spin from the lateral position (followed by a rear cross on the teeter) would help sweeten that turn, plus quieter verbals.
When you released from the teeter at :36, your voice said ‘around’ but your line of motion was blocking the jump so he was looking a the tunnel. You were further over at 1:39 but still blocking the wing. The more independent we can get the teeter (more below on that), the more you can release him from a position that is more center of the bar so he drives directly to the backside wing with no thoughts about the tunnel.
The missed weaves might be a bit of mental fatigue, or he is not all that experienced getting them from the RDW with you miles away. It is definitely something to revisit when he has recovered a bit.
The line 17-18 is tricky – it is more of a get out lead change away and not a go on – you had to help him because he was (correctly) going straight and that extra help propelled him way out over 18. You were earlier and clearer at 1:56 – the FC there at the end worked well! You can also play with a double blind there if you can’t get ahead for the FC: as he is landing from 17, you can cue 18 but also turn your head away to do a blind, make a heartbeat of connection, then do another blind to get him back on your right – all that while you are converging in to get to the a-frame. I like the choice of the Out at 2:00 – keeping your opposite arm lower (nose level for the dog) can help him see it as you converge to get into that area.
Speaking of convergence – I think it was the convergence on the 16-17-18 line that contributed to the rail coming down at 1:55 – that is a good one to revisit as well.
>>A bit discouraged on the teeter: have done a million bang-games (hop on from the side) and full teeters into 2o2o but I’m not seeing it in course work. Will have to do a million more, I guess. Less than a month in; I should be more patient, I’m sure. But I figure whining to you is better than whining to Enzo.A bit discouraged on the teeter: have done a million bang-games (hop on from the side) and full teeters into 2o2o but I’m not seeing it in course work. Will have to do a million more, I guess. Less than a month in; I should be more patient, I’m sure. But I figure whining to you is better than whining to Enzo.
Well, yes and no. Bear in mind that I am not patient nor do I like to do a million of anything 🙂 Whining to me is fine haha! Yes, he was doing the 4on for a long time and the 2o2o is only a month in – but we can help speed the process! The bang games are great! But have you ever done elevator games with him? Those are the next step after the bang game to get the 2o2o going on the full teeter.
Then separately the full 2o2o with more independence… this is gonna sound crazy coming from someone who loves to shape behavior, but I think on the full teeters in the big courses you should use a well-placed “prompt” (cough cough lure cough cough) to begin to get the behavior in that context. So that peanut butter lid can actually have peanut butter on it so he goes into 2o2o without you. And yes, I would show it to him beforehand. A bit of luring can jumpstart the behavior in that context, especially because you are getting rid of a different behavior. If we embrace the ‘get the behavior’ mantra, I see nothing wrong with getting you out of the picture by luring it for a bit – then we fade the lure (easy enough to do) while keeping the independent skill. Let me know if that makes sense. And feel free to whine about it any time LOL!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there!
>>As far as verbals, there were definitely some “less is more” people. Here are some examples:
– Using more generic turn cues (get back) for both backside wrap and backside slice.
– No distinction between degree of turn; one cue for “turn left” and “wrap left” OR one cue for turn and one cue for wrap.
In all cases, the handling is to support and clarify the verbal.>>That is a discussion I have had with lots of folks recently… young fast handlers with small-ish dogs who are relying on verbals to clarify the specifics of the turns, like on the backside. And I would say they are able to ‘get it done’ a decent amount of the time. But, they are also finding that they are getting eaten alive on the courses where they just can’t be in position – and those courses are showing up more and more. And I am not just talking UKI crazy courses here – these are folks who focus primarily on AKC courses.
>>On the other hand, there were times when a case was made for a distinct cue and it was supported. For example, one word (e.g. zoom) for a tunnel threadle instead of “come tunnel” which is not really a tunnel threadle cue but a ‘come’ cue (with head check) followed by a redirect to the tunnel.>>
I agree with this too – separate cues here. Having to redirect to the tunnel, using the same cue that would indicate the end of the tunnel that I don’t want? Eek! That requires an reliably perfect timing and position… nope, not one of my strengths LOL!
The arguments about *not* having all of the verbals are either:
* I don’t need them, I can always be there
or
* I can’t remember them when I am runningI can make convincing arguments to counter both of those LOL!
>>There were some excellent points: I have a list of 40 words Enzo is familiar with but only 10 to 15 are truly fluent (proofed and well understood). The list also includes non-agility words so I can keep track of the noises he knows and, if I need a new one, it won’t be too similar to one he already knows.>>
That is fine, though – he is still young enough that we are still proofing/teaching, plus dogs are brilliant at context. I use “get” as the first word of 2 different verbal cues (get it and get out) but my dogs, thankfully, know contexts well enough that they appear to have no questions. Whew!
>>Also, I have overlaps: (left/right for 90 degree turns; check/dig for wraps; AND a turn away cue “switch”). In my head, I understand when I use the directionals and when I use “switch” but I wonder if I could eliminate switch if I could depend on the others. But I LIKE switch. >>
Switch is super specific AND he is great at it… I think it falls into the ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ category and it should stay in the toolbox 🙂
>>It will be interesting to see which cues survive showing. I may have a totally different list at this time next year.>>
Agreed! Between prioritizing, trialing, and course design trends, we might have different ideas in a year. But that is part of what makes it fun!
T
Bonanza! HA!! Love it!
>>n other news we did a few short sessions of the verbal arousal and determined that Sit is a very strong behavior that he can do with me jumping and flailing arms in place. His flip/turn (spin left and right) isn’t as strong but it’s good with moderate movement on my part.>>
Having one very strong behavior and one almost strong is great! It is a lot better than him looking at you like you are nuts!
>>Currently raining hard which is good for the grass and dropping the temps out of the 90s, but bad for actually training outside.>>
Fingers crossed for clear, cool weather ahead!
Tracy
Hi! Emmie did really well here too – and her skills on the teeter and the weaves are looking great!!!
On the opening –
I loved that you didn’t step in to get the backside at 3. If you keep your arm back and make more eye contact as she lands from 2, you’ll have it perfectly! Your arm came up and forward, which turned your shoulders a bit. Plus, you also were actually a bit too far ahead (I know, sounds crazy LOL!) so as you were giving the backside cue at :05 you also had to pull away so as to not run into the jump. Leading out less will actually help because you can remain more parallel to her line and then just slide past the exit wing of 3.Good reward on rep 2! And you got it nicely on rep 3 – note how much further ahead you were getting around the wing of 3 so she had the line all to herself there. You didn’t trust her as much on the next time through there at :45 so she had a wider line, waiting for you to clear the path.
A little oopsie on the first weave cue at :26 – keep your arm back and eyes on hers and move parallel to the weaves til she has them then pull away – you fixed it nicely at :32!!!
Nice position on the tunnel after the weaves! And yes, too much go and not enough jump at :39 🙂 But you adjusted it really well and it was really nice at :56! The go cue was also calmer and quieter there, so she didn’t extend away as much.
She got the backside wrap at 1:06 but was careful like Kip was – too much leaning forward pressure there from the position – that upright sideways position should help. And also – the slice is the winning line there (more on that coming in Games Package 3 :))You had a little bit of pulling off at 1:10 to layer the jump on the way to the weaves – it was a strong physical turn cue on the tunnel exit but she was almost able to go back out and get the weaves. Good girlie!!!! Good adjustment to start the running line through the layer at 1:18 from much earlier so there were no changes in the line. So nice!!!! Good weaves too!
>>At the end I got a little confused as to what I was doing so did a fake out of a BC.
Ha! I watched it 3 times, I was like “did she just do a double blind there?” LOL!!! Dog-on-right worked nicely there, she was lovely!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Kippy did really well here and also gave you useful info!!
Some ideas for you:
On the opening, he was finding that backside at 3 perfectly so you didn’t need to step to it: just stay connected like you did and say the verbal. The step made you late getting past the wing at :06 and :26 so his line was a little wide going to 4 – this is a small detail but can eat up time on course.Nice line 4-5-6! Nice position on the tunnel while he was weaving!
>>but I realized through the little training we did in there I was not telling him to jump. >>
Ha! In my notes when I watched it, I wrote down “maybe a jump verbal would help him” LOL!!! Yes, there was a little too much GO – and if go doesn’t imply that they should also jump, you can just use the jump cue. And also, there is a soft collection on that jump after the tunnel, so I might say go once but then immediately switch to jump and a name call to get the turn. At 1:01 you had more of a jump cue and he looked good!
After the teeter, you did the backside wrap at 1:27 – he was a little wide coming around to the backside, so you can be more sideways (your right hip practically touching where the wing meets the bar) and standing upright so he drives directly in – you were facing forward and leaning forward so he went wide there. You had a little too much of that pressure at 1:46, so he pushed off the wrap. He got it at 1:52 but was being careful because of the pressure.
The other thing to play with there is the slice to his left – I believe it would be a faster easier line there 🙂
The ending line looked really good after the straight tunnel (DW replacement :)) except you can run it out all dog-on-right and push him to the last tunnel. The blind cross caused the bar to fall at 2:05 and then pulled him off the tunnel when you pulled away.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! He did really well here!
>>Is the bit about making sure the treat is tossed on a surface where the dog can easily find it for the learning stages?
Yes, it is helpful if they understand the routine of grab the treat and then look up rather than look for more.
>> I regularly have him find a dropped treat in the grass when we are walking and another dog is approaching. The grass is mowed for a decent stretch off the path) It takes him a while to find it and then I toss another and pretty soon the dog has gone by and he’s still happily finding treats. >>
In the surprise situation you mentioned, you can toss a handful and give him a cue to just find them all (I tell my dogs “have at it!” lol!). In other situations, you can go to the one cookie toss and wait for him to offer the looking up.
>>I tried the game this morning which basically meant waiting for him to look back at me before giving him the toss cue and dropping the next treat. Worked really well as long as I got him off the path and at a distance (10-15ft) from the approaching dog. A few times he had to stare for a while before he could look back at me but he did it all calmly.>>
That is GREAT! Didn’t take him long at all apply the game. I don’t mind if it takes a few seconds or more before he can offer looking at you or towards you – calmly is great! He will continue to get better and better. And you can start the game as soon as you see there is a dog approaching – toss the treat even as you are moving off the path.
>> He’s not advanced enough that he can do this if we are surprised by an approaching dog and don’t have time to get a bit of distance.>>
That can be a fistful of treats and a ‘have at it’ moment 🙂He did really well on the video! By then end, he was offering the looking at you so quickly he barely looked away for the treat. Yay! My only suggestion is to remember you can start the game the instant he enters the environment with a treat toss – you don’t need to wait for him to look at you before that first toss. That toss becomes the engagement cue, after a while – then after that, the presence of the distraction becomes the engagement cue.
Great news about his trial experience! Doing it in all that heat – fabulous! Things will be much easier when the temperatures cool down or when you are indoors in the a/c 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there!
>>Another mistake I think I made …. “Git it”, often refers to a ball, or anything I want them to retrieve. I think I totally confused them. 😫😫. Can’t believe I made it so difficult for them!
Good catch! That is why we mess around with the games at home first, and on video. So it get it might refer to the balls or retrieving, use something else for this game. Maybe something like “snacks!” LOL!
>>Both dogs looked at my cookie hand, not my eyes.
Not a problem at all! It is better than looking at distractions and it is the first step towards looking at your face. You can try them both on your right side – there might be value on your hand from any heeling you might have done? But looking at your hand is not a problem at this stage.
On Demi’s session:
She picked up on the basic game really quickly! Then by adding 2 balls with her right on top of them, you went from step 1 to step 257 LOL! You were correct to restart the game further away, and with one ball. She did MUCH better with that. You can also use easier distractions such as a random chair or flower pot. Then a ball in the distance (distance away from the distraction is our friend in this game!)And remember, when you add the distraction: the game still starts with the tossed snack when she enters the environment – you don’t need to wait for her to engage and then toss it to get started. That first tossed snack is the cue to engage that the dogs recognize when they are experienced with this game.
Wilson did really well here – he is more experienced plus he only had one tennis ball to ignore LOL!!! So you can also add different distractions for him.
As you plan for more of this: what kinds of things distract them (particularly with Demi, because she is the ‘baby’ dog)? And what other environments can you take them to, to begin this game?
>>I don’t believe I have a good moving activity. She does hand touches. Spins are lured. She can “back”, but that seems counterproductive. Can I use hand touches?
Can she do a ‘back’ on a verbal cue with no physical help? That would be GREAT because it simulates having to engage her hind end for things like tight turns or weaves, even while there is a lot of motion from you! Hand touches probably won’t work, because your hands will be flying all over as you add distractions. Can she do spins with a minimal hand cue, and is there a verbal attached to those too? That can work!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
Lots of ideas for you here!>>This training session just wasn’t great but I’m posting anyway because they can’t all be great.
The polished perfect sessions are fun to post, but it is the imperfect sessions that give us the most helpful info. Thank you for posting it!
And yes I agree that they can’t all be great in terms of accomplishing whatever our training goals were or running the course… but I am going to change your mindset a bit here: they CAN all be great in terms of rate of reinforcement. If you obsessively keep that rate of reinforcement way high – every session will be great – and then the things you want to improve in your handling or in his skills become much easier to improve.
And true, you might leave a sessions thinking to yourself, “well, that certainly didn’t go well” in terms of whatever you wanted to accomplish, you can totally leave it knowing you still got a high rate of reinforcement going.I am not really concerned about the skills and handling, so we will look at that in a minute. The main thing with a young dog is going to be convincing him he is right, that he was correct, and that each reward is a big party, even if you mess up or he is not quite right. On a lot of the moments here, you were stopping after an error and then handing him a reward or dropping the reward down into the grass… I am not sure he considers that a reinforcement LOL! (The reinforcement recipient gets to decide whether the offered thing is reinforcing or not :)) So if something goes wrong in the handling, like you were in the way on the blind – wheeee! Awesome! Run and tug! Woohooo! Be engaging with the reinforcement as if it had gone exactly to plan… and less contemplative about how to get it to go to plan. Go wild with the reward first, then take a moment to figure out/discuss what to do better or differently. I think the reverse was happening here: something would go wrong, you would say something like “oops” then stop, get contemplative (which turns your attention away from him, which is a negative punishment), then hand him a reward that was not moving much and also delayed – but he did not find that reinforcing and was checking out.
So you might still leave a session without the skills or handling being closer to what you wanted, but you will leave the session knowing that you will have a very engaged dog ready to work the next session 🙂
For the weaves – dogs will pop out if they go into sequence too early without the frame of reference brought over from the training, that might be happening here. So you can have the poles open (I think they were here) and support with handling and have a reward target out ahead. Having them open but in sequence was causing the reward to come from your hands on the next line, so I am not really sure if the reward correlated to the weaves or to the line to you.
>> I find myself getting frustrated with his weaves because I don’t feel like there coming together.
The other thing to consider doing when the weaves just aren’t coming together is getting a thorough workup from a sports soft tissue person and also an ortho vet – there might be something that is holding him back.
On the backside pushes – that is a hard line! You can break it down by giving yourself more of a lead out to be way ahead to show the line. And, you can also work on getting it from behind him by using just the wing – the bar is a big tasty distraction so you can work on the pass cue without the bar available, which allows you to work it from behind and more realistic positions.
>>Most days I can handle all the limitations of not having my own training space but today I felt super rushed to try to get everything done and should have been better for Fever.>>
That is relatable!! If you think of it more as a mathematical challenge: increase the percentage/rate of reinforcement – it will matter less if you are feeling rushed or the skills are not coming together. There are little red flags and warning bells in my head every time I do *not* reward with excitement (or do not reward at all) and that keeps me on track even if the rest of the session is poopy <---------- scientific term 🙂 It also keeps me from getting my emotions involved if I just think about number of rewards and delivery of rewards. Let me what you think! Tracy
These look good!!! I am trying to think of any that you might consider – do you have an ‘out’ cue for a simple lead change away (different than a ‘turn’ which is rear crossy)
And something to consider eventually: a weave threadle (same concept as a tunnel threadle, but for weaves).Do you have ‘soft’ collection cues, like lefts and rights?
T
