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Hi! These looked really good, his independence is getting REALLY strong on the teeter!
Overall, the handling looked really strong on all of the reps: nice connection and timing, and his turns were lovely! So we can obsess on the teeter performance 🙂
His teeter on the 1st sequence was great! And the fast release was a good reward before he could think about it too much. On the 2nd sequence, his 1st teeter was great too… and then he stopped short on the 2nd teeter as if he was asking “where’s the beef!” Interestingly, that teeter was the one that did not really have an independence challenge, so my guess is that he is not used to doing 3 teeters in a row without an immediate reward. So, you can reward every other teeter with treats thrown ahead or tossed to the target, or two teeters in a row get rewards… and we can gradually stretch that out so he can produce the great teeters without by the 3rd one asked where his treats are LOL!
On the 3rd sequence, you rewarded a great teeter performance. Yay! As I mentioned above, you can also have the reward out ahead so he doesn’t think about where you are.
On the 4th sequence and last rep on the teeter – these were good executions! He stopped a tiny bit shorter than he did on some of the earlier reps, but it was still a really lovely independent teeter performance!Nice work! Let me know what you think of the ideas about how to reward and how often 🙂
TracyHi! Yes, the lateral walking is totally helping, he did a great job here. You can keep adding more and more difficult angles now working up to being able to move away at a 90 degree angle.
One thing I notice is that his first teeter is AMAZING and then when he realizes you are going to run in and reward at the target, he stops further up the board by the 3rd rep. Hmmmmmm…. since the placement of reinforcement shifts his behavior so quickly, you might consider rewarding that first amazing one in position but then all the others should be rewarded out ahead, with a thrown treat or toy (and it can be planted out ahead like his reward targets were). That should keep him from starting to think about where you are on these and keep him driving to the very end.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
That is good to know about the lead outs at trials! It probably means he finds the environment a bit stressful. He was pretty perfect here in this video… so we can start to make a game plan for trials. He did tricks here and he also tugged on his leash. How comfortable is he doing either or both of those on the start line at a trial? Some dogs need the tricks and/or tugging to get in the right head space. Some dogs are all business and prefer to just go to the start line and get into their stay position.
Either way, we can expand this game into something useful for trials! Let me know 🙂
TracyHi! Great to see you here!!!
Good question about the weaves issue:
>>Do you think I should stop correcting her entries and instead always let her go to the last pole before bringing her back? >>
Possibly… but then she might be wondering why she doesn’t get rewarded or comes back, if she completes them successfully. The other option is to use a very specific marker to reset her and keep moving (don’t stop).
>>Or maybe not bring her back to retry them at all if it’s part of a sequence or a full course? She knows her entries pretty well.
Does she get stressed if you restart her? You might consider doing a quick re-training project: how was she trained initially? You can go back to slightly open poles with a reward target out ahead, and retrain the skill where she weaves even if you stop or something 🙂 It won’t take her long at all, and we train it differently now than we did when she was a youngster (with apologies to our 7 and 8 year old dogs LOL!)
>>Her handler just makes mistakes sometimes.
I feel this LOL!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! She did really well here! This is definitely a game to do with Journey too, because having the understanding of how/when/where to earn the reinforcement is great for building confidence.
What is your verbal, it hard to hear it – is it ‘get it’? That is a good verbal as long as you don’t use it anywhere else (I use it in lots of other situations LOL!). She did really well with the cookies and tricks and stays! It is something really easy to transfer into trials – I also use the Manners Minder for this and have it planted outside the ring (I have also used it during NFC runs in UKI).
The leash will be even easier to use as a reinforcement in the ring… as long as she likes it LOL! She only kinda sorta seemed interested in tugging on it and was checking out at around the 1 minute mark when you were trying to get her to play with it. Is she normally more interested in the leash tugging? Or maybe you need to get a fancier tug leash and introduce it as a toy first before it becomes a leash. If you can get her on the leash as a fun toy, it can ‘anchor’ her stay and then you have your reward *right there* in the ring, all the time. You can also do that with a real toy because UKI will allow you to bring a toy in the ring even on ‘real’ runs – so the toy can be behind her (or the leash) and you can sometimes use it as the reinforcement you send her to with your ‘get it’ cue.
Great job here! When is your next trial opportunity when we can transfer some of these to the ring?
Tracy
Hi there! Lots of good work here!!! Here are some thoughts for ya:
First Course:
Opening looked good, weaves were very independent – a little hoppy in the middle maybe because she was all like “WHERE ARE YOU GOING MOM” haha! Not sure what they normally look like when you run with her but she was a good girl to stay in them! That set up a great line on the jumps before the teeter (easy peasy!) and the teeter was also beautifully independent, which made getting to the next line easy too!Ah yes, on that 12-13 line: don’t say “go” unless the dog is looking the correct direction at :35 🙂 I have learned that the hard way LOL!! Also I don’t think you need to step in as much there – you can just slide through a serp there and let your position and motion show her the line, rather than have to pull her in then do a big step out. That extra step in is what helped set up the accidental Go push.
Her teeter looked AWESOME on the next rep! She had a bar down on the jump after it at :41 – you closed your shoulder and took off there, which is what likely contributed (not jumping high enough also contributed lol) so with such an independent teeter, you can keep your shoulder open and connection on her for longer to help support the bar there.
She wrapped at :46, I think you wanted the slice? The slice is the better line. It looked like you got the wrap by stepping in too much and making it looked like a RC there.
Did you want wrap at :51 on jump after frame? I *think* you wanted the wrap there too, but your feet said slice and your upper body supported the slice (facing the slice landing spot and leaning forward). If you want the wrap, be more rotated so your butt is facing the wing and your feet are almost facing back to the a-frame. However, it is possible the slice is faster there!
Because you were a little behind there, the tunnel to DW line after it needed more of a GO GO GO to get her to go straight to the DW and not curl in (you got quiet there). And I think she was supposed to stop on the DW? You might need to repeat the stop verbal as she is at the top of the down ramp – what are your verbals for the stop versus the run? You had great position there at :58!
Course 2:
On the wrap versus slice at 3, it looks like you were blocking the win on the slice so she got real mad at you 🙂 Let her see the whole wing, so position yourself where the wing meets the bar until she is passing you.
Also, I would bet you that slicing to her right on 3 is faster – it sets a better line, no really collection, and the yardage will be same or similar. I know that small dogs can sometimes be faster on the wrap than on the slice, but I don’t think this is one of those moments – the wrap here has a ton of collection and does not set all that good of a line to 4 or to the weaves. You were in a better position there at 1:26 so the wrap itself was prettier… but it still sets wider line 4-5 than the slice does. If you get to play with this course again, try it both ways and we will time it.I think the BC at 1:14 while she is in the poles is a perfectly fine handling choice! But it was a little too much for now – definitely worth training on though, but just starting it slowly and while moving along a parallel path. It will be a totally useful skill!
You had plenty of time to do it on the next rep, you were able to get so far up the line that you had to actually wait for her to finish weaving LOL! That made 6-7-8 really easy. She went wide over 8, looking at the a-frame: a stronger ‘brake’ arm can help (having your upper body a little more rotated and outside arm more obvious) or even do a spin there – she doesn’t need a lot of spins, but this might be a good place for it.
Teeter looked good!!! You can reset after the reward by sending across teeter again to then continue on for the rest of the sequence. Video ended there, boohoo, was there more? It is like a cliffhanger!!!So overall, I am really liking the obstacle independence and where it is getting you on course! Let me know what you think about the handling ideas. Great job!
Tracy
Howdy!
Great job on these, I am really liking his teeter performance! He is driving allllll the way to the top, especially when he was on your left – and he did it without you needing to run your *ss off. Life is good! The target being visible and food reward are totally helping.Sequence 1 (teeter on your right) looked really good! The camera had the back view of the teeter but it looked great from here and you seemed happy with it too 🙂 He was not super tight on the jump after the teeter release at :06 and :24 (and also on the other side at :50 and 1:07). I think it was because of your line of motion – your running line was past the wing and setting a slice line, plus you were on landing side – so he was turning more on landing than before takeoff. Try staying more on takeoff side of that jump and decelerating and not going past the wing, to see if that helps him collect there (his turns on the wing wrap and the backside jump all looked great – was he at 16″ here?)
One thing to keep an eye on – He is leaping onto the teeter (rather than running up it) a little like at :08 :21 and :53 – it might just be a silly young dog thing so we will keep an eye on it 🙂
One note to bug you about: let him settle into position every time and come to a complete stop – try not to quick release (like at :29, he hadn’t fully stopped yet).
The teeters when he was on your left later in the video looked even better, wowza! It is fun to see him really building up more confidence on the teeter!
>> When Stark was on my left with the teeter, I noticed he jumped up at my hand after the jump. My toy was in the hand so I swithced it for hte next forund. The next time I did it, he jumped and barked again. I noticed that I gave a verbal pretty late so maybe that is why??>>
I saw it happen at 1:07 (your hand was empty there). Usually that happens when the dog is frustrated, so maybe more connection is needed there, where you make a lot of eye contact and really lock your arm back so he sees your face? But I think it could also be arousal/frustration
– he was mad about the wide turn and came at you like a Malinois LOL!!! I think this litter gets a little aroused and when they are aroused or frustrated… they get chompy. Elektra was aroused yesterday (not frustrated, just PUMPED UP TO BE DOING A THING) and so she jumped up and bit my arm. They are bitey little buggers sometimes! So try adding more tons more connection, over-connect – and reward from the opposite arm so if he needs to bite something, it is the toy not you LOL! Let me know if that helps! We will work on those turns too, which should reduce the arousal/frustration as well.Great job here!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
She was a really good girl on these, especially because it is such a hard skill for young dogs! She was not entirely convinced she should leave you to get in the weaves, but she did 🙂 And the weaves themselves looked really good: rhythmic and fast!
On the 2nd sequence (2nd rep) I think she back-weaved because as she was exiting, she was looking straight. Then you turned your back on her to point forward at :22 before she saw which side to be on, so she read it like a blind cross (clever!!). Compare it to the first rep at :08 where you were connected more and she turned tighter, so she could see to come to your right side.
3rd rep – she questioned it a little because the 2nd rep had gone sideways lol but you helped and you were a lot more connected on the exit, so she got it. Good girl! And great dog training to go with her on the last rep. YAY!!
When she is driving ahead of you standing virtually stationary or leaving laterally on the other sequences, you can also leave her toy out on the ground past the weaves or toss it, to keep up the value for leaving you for the weaves. The handling is the easy part, so I am not too worried about that.
>> You said you wanted them limited to 2 per exercise. Does that mean 2 different videos for all the set ups in the sequence section or 2 videos per set up i the sequence section? My guess is 2 video for the sequences, period.
I would say it is kind of a mix and match – so if you do a working session on all the weave sequences (there are 4 of them, I believe), that can be several reps of each. And it can be spread out over a couple of days. Then you can post those up as the Round 1 – it would have a good number of reps, even if you stick to the 4-per-sequence guidelines. Then we discuss, and you can either re-do them as round 2 or do a different set of the sequences for the round 2. These are weaves so you can do more weaves or do the teeters 🙂
If you split them up, the round 1 can basically cover all of the sequences in the set even if you submit them separately like you did above – so if you do the other weave sequences, that is still round 1. Let me know if that makes more sense or if I need more caffeine LOL!>>If that’s the case, I’ll wait until we’ve done a few of the different exercises so I can include a clip from 3 or 4 of them.>>
Yes, and it can be multiple clips from 3 or 4 of them, I consider each sequence separately. We are just trying to avoid doing a 1000 reps LOL because there is a lot of content and we don’t want to fry the dogs 🙂
>>I don’t know how you’re doing it – this class has over 30 participants, and I bet this is not the only class you’re teaching! Take a breather once in a while…..:)
Ha! Caffeine helps! And also time management LOL! The next puppy class starts in a week, so I will be a little busy starting next week 🙂
T
Good morning!
Oh yes, the target helps a lot! The teeter reps with the target there looked rally strong! And yes, for now, he needs the target in this scenario as you saw in the one rep when it was not there. The thrown treat word is perfect: ZING! LOL! You only need the zing word – you don’t need ‘yes’ or ‘ok’. Zing will do all the work of the praise and the release 🙂 I am personally trying to stop saying “yes” as a marker when I am about to reward because it is causing my dogs to look at me too much. And the ‘ok’ release will also get more looking at you – so using just the Zing will keep his head straight on these. And then we can gradually fade the target by making it smaller and smaller.
>> So for progressing to the sequences, should I use the weaves only or do you think I can do the teeter with a target for that?>>
Both! You can use the weaves for the sequences and also do the teeter sequences with the target in the picture. I think he is ready for those.
Wager did well here on the transition game: the way to go is a fun marker and also sounds like something we would all say at the end of a run.
He was totally focused and also offering a stand stay. If there is a struggle with getting a sit at a trial, you can go with the offered stand stay! He responded beautifully to the sit cue here but sometimes home life and trial life are different 🙂
I like how he did with the ‘get your leash’ moments too! Now if way to go is the cookies and get your leash is the leash, try to have them in different locations so he doesn’t have to try to run over the leash to get to the cookies.At 2:20, you led out, stood still, connected… all the things that precede some type of release. And then you turned and moved forward again at 2:23 with a quick movement: looked exactly like a release but you did not give the verbal. He released and get a negative marker. Since he saw all the antecedents to the release, try to then always give the release and don’t do anything that looks like a release but isn’t a release – it sets him up to fail and that failure will lead to more failure. My philosophy is that a release has a series of antecedents and really is not just a verbal cue – so I try to only show all the antecedents if I am going to release the dog. And if I screw up 😂 then I will not mark it as wrong and just reset with a cookie. He was definitely more cautious on the way to go on the following reps because he was not trusting the antecedents as much.
He seems to prefer the leash as reward here (is he like that at trials too?) so definitely keep working that in! His stays were solid with the leash in play there, so that is definitely something you can use!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>> I understand what you mean about get my arm way back, I still don’t think it was far enough but I tried rewarding with my right hand to turn my body further.
I think the arm back plus the reward across the body really helped!
>>How do I help him more with this even though I was giving a tight turn cue? Is it a matter of actually just doing lots of tight turn cueing on a wing with good connection so that he understands what that cue means when I can’t be there to help the turn with my body?>>
Part of it is giving the turn cues sooner and also supporting with earlier body cues. And part of it will be proofing it and figuring out exactly what is the best turn from him (we will be looking at this very specifically in packages 2 and 3!)
On the video: the weave challenges all look great!! Yay!
The turn reps at the beginning – the arm back and rewarding across your body are definitely helping him turn better there. Also, running out of it and setting the line more clearly to the next jump (stepping in a bit) will make them perfect :))
On the ‘softer’ turns at :13 and :29 – the verbal was a little late but I also think he needs needs more physical cues to support the turn you want: we can add a ‘brake’ arm to tighten up the soft turns there, where you add a little outside arm to gently get a better turn. And we will also be working that skill specifically while adding more motion next week.The tighter wraps at :17 and :33 will benefit from a bit more transition into deceleration, so you can rotate your feet more before he passes you. The turn at :33 was the better of the 2, just give one more step in towards the next jump to set the line. Also these lines are likely to be faster if you slice him to the outside rather than wrap to the inside 🙂
Seq 2:
The countermotion you used on jump 1 really helped tighten the turns on the first couple of reps. Nice!
Yes, at 1:01 you turned too soon away from 2, so he went to the weaves – that one extra step to 2 when he lands is something he needs for commitment. It almost happened again at 1:17, but he figured it out. You did a lovely job cuing that line at 1:08 and 1:36!
I think the wraps at 1:13 and 1:31 were looking strong, so no need to worry about the tightness too much for now – we will be looking at it on the bigger courses too. If you get a chance to play with these again, try the slices there instead of the wraps and we can compare which is faster 🙂Teeter session:
>> Yes, I want it to be ultimately, but in the interim I think I need a release cue, otherwise she just does flyers in the ring.>>
I agree – it should be a ‘wait til released’ and then in the bigger events, you can release a little earlier LOL!
The stopping short of the end of the board might be a product of the hit and go criteria, but also I think she is a bit dependent on your body position as she was stopping parallel to you here on each of these stops here. That body dependence will really show up when we hang back – she didn’t stop parallel when you were way behind her but still a little short of the end. And that would explain the flyers when she is more excited and you are running harder – she might be cuing off your body position.
So to help that, 2 ideas for you:
For the teeter, let’s make the reward more remote and very forward so it has nothing to do with your position but is also contingent on a release to it. So she drives to the end and gets a verbal release forward to the reward (MM or a ball on the ground or something) and never gets it from your hand so it is not about you at all 🙂 But she needs to wait for the release or you risk more flyers 🙂Also, it is possible that the 4on criteria is too simple so she needs something that brings her all the way to the end and gets her to want to stay there. It can be something like scratching the very end of the board like Hero or a nose touch to the end. And only release her which she is actually doing that secondary behavior: stopping is not good enough, she needs to stop AND do the thing at the end and then you can reward with the MM. It is like running to the door AND ringing the doorbell in order for the door to open 🙂 It sounds counterintuitive to add more criteria to strengthen the behavior, but it works like a charm 🙂 And that is also good for Hero – both he and Ruse like to look for you so this will give them something else to do and keep their heads forward to the end of the board.
let me know if this all makes sense! Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
Nice work here! Lots of good stuff to work on!
I couldn’t really hear your verbal directionals here – a bit of noise where I am plus on the video she is barking and you were quiet LOL! So, just a general reminder to keep using all the words 🙂On the run:
On the opening line, you can lead out a little more to be able to push further across 2 towards 3 at :09 – that will allow you to set the 2-3 line sooner so she turns before takeoff and not on landing.You can be a lot more independent in your weave handling 🙂 Pretend the weaves are a straight tunnel: send and leave to your next spot so you can be MUCh further ahead for the 7-8 section. Ideally, you would be at the tunnel exit of 6 before she gets into 6. When she was exiting the weaves at :17, you were parallel to her and pretty close to the weaves, which made the handling at 8 difficult so she had questions.
The teeter independence at :27 looks good! And good rewarding! Then the ‘stay there’ element was confusing to her – so it is perfectly fine to go back to reward, then release, then start from 8 to reset it and carry on from there.
Good independence on the 10-11-12 line!! Made that whole section very pretty!
On her first accidental backside moment at 12-13 at :58: it was hard to tell if you were wanting to rear cross 13 so she sliced to her left, or pull her in for a wrap in between 13 and 12 (to her right). I think the slice to the left is a better line. But what happened to cause her questions was that there was not really any decel or turn of shoulders to ask her to turn – you kept moving forward and that caused her to remain in extension, which put her on the line to the backside. For a RC on 13, you would need to decel a lot and turn your feet to the center of the bar at 13 (and maybe use a ‘soft brake’ arm cue), all before she makes a takeoff decision of 12 (so it would start when she exits the tunnel). If you wanted the wrap, you would need to decel at the same time (tunnel exit) and keep your feet forward to 14.
Based on your teeter independence, you can ask her for more independence on the teeter at 9 and the jump at 10, so you can get ahead enough to blind cross between 12 and 13 (it is only another step or 2 of independence required, I bet you can get it!)
There was another question from her on jump 16 – I thought you were cuing the RC on 16 at 1:12 based on your motion (pressure into the jump bar) and foot position (facing the RC line) I couldn’t see what happened there that caused you to stop but I think she also read rear cross? You fixed it at 1:33, but coming in from the speed of the a-frame would need you to get further ahead on the frame (independence! The theme LOL!) so you can be even more decelerated/rotated as exits the frame, on the wrap wing of 16 so she doesn’t see your feet facing the RC line at all.
You’ve got some good independence happening on the dog walk! You can be even more independent on DW so you can BC between the tunnel exit and jump #20 ,so you control the turn and don’t pick up 2/13 between 20 and 21.That extra step or two will get the BC and eliminate the need for any pesky rear crosses 🙂 I bet she can do it!
On that RC on 20:
Doing it as a RC requires more pressure on the RC diagonal (towards the center of the bar til she is passing you and committing) and decel for the wrap. It is a wicked RC which should motivate you to train more independence on the DW haha!When you were running it, you had a bit of a Goldilocks moment happening:
At 2:09 there was too much pressure on the RC line: you pinged your feet off the line too soon (before she passed you) and that pushed her to the backside of 20. If that is happening regularly, then you are likely turning to the new line to early and pushing her to the backside line.
At 2:19, there was too little pressure on the RC line: you ran the pull to the left line for too ling so she wrapped to her left. Good girl!
At 2:32, you were basically “just right” and her rear cross was better indeed! I think a little more pressure to the center of the bar will help get it great as long as you don’t turn your feet til she is past you and looking at the bar. Patience required on these rear crosses (which is why I train the independence to be able to get the blinds because no patience is required haha!)Great job on this whopper of a course! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Driving forward in the weaves. Perhaps if an used the verbal go…she would have gone. Throwing a ball would have helped. It always trumps food>>
Will she stay in the poles if you add a little go go go to its? Or you can play with repeating the weave cue. And yes, a ball will add excitement 🙂
>>The teeter..:I forgot about the teeter for the last year. We started with 4 on quick release, but I notice she is no longer driving to the end. If I put a target down she still stops before the end and then goes to the target. I have been holding the teeter end up, treating her when she drives to the end, releasing the teeter and treating her when it hits the ground, then giving her a treat in a bowl just beyond the hoop.
I hope this is teaching her to drive to the end, stay on until it hits, then go>>It sounds like you are playing a game that I call the crazy elevator game – and yes, it should help her drive to the end. If she is a bit rusty on the teeter, it is a great way to refresh that skill. We will keep looking at it during the class too 🙂
T
Hi! I am on a mission to clean up some of my own sloppy markers, so yes – you might want to emphasize the ‘let’s’ part of the phrase and the ‘cookies!’ part of the phrase. But also, dogs are brilliant at differentiating context, so if you emphasize the “let’s” and not the ‘get’, I think she will be fine. For example, it can sound something like ” LET’S gogetsome COOKIES!” if that makes sense! My cue is “Let’s go!” and my dogs do not appear to confuse it with the “go” directional on course 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
TracyGood morning!
This went really well, and I figured these games would be good ‘next steps’ for the teeter class and weave class graduates 🙂
The warm up with the Crazy Elevators was a great way to ‘prime the pump.’ Then he was amazing with the independence, WOW!!! He is doing a bit of young dog multi-tasking where he is stopping a few inches short of the very end of the board when it is way up in the air, but I think that is no problem: part of it is because he was learning to deal with you literally running away across the room (that last rep at 1:03 you were almost out of view of the camera LOL!!!). And part of it is that he is in calm training mode. When he is used to the crazy challenges and also in more of the stimulated trial mode, you’re likely to see him hanging his front feet off the end of the board while it is in the air LOL!Definitely keep using his target to help for now, it I easy enough to fade. With the teeter, I say onwards to the sequences for success to build it into sequences. Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I got the internet to work, hooray!
This is also looking really strong. On the first rep, he went a little wide on the wing wrap (looking at something off screen maybe?) but the weaves were really great. He was a little surprised by your position when he exited the poles (he was still looking forward) so that might be just that he needs more experience with ‘finding’ you after really independent weaves. On the 2nd run, he let you abruptly pull away from the weaves – good boy! You can stick closer to the wing wrap to send him so you can slide away sooner. The 2nd set of poles in that rep was really easy for him.
Rep 3, holy cow, he let you basically run backwards while he was weaving GOOD BOY! You can set it up so you stay closer to jump 2 at :36 then you don’t need to be as dramatic as you leave him in the poles, but it is great training for him to let you do that. On the jump after the weaves (#4) you can also try slicing him to the outside as that might be the faster line for him.
Rep 4 – also super lovely independent weaving! When he exits the poles at :55 you had him on your right side and your shoulders were cuing the line that he stayed on so he was a little wide coming to the jump after the weaves. You can have him on your left exiting the poles there (do a FC while he is weaving) and then either a send to the jump or a spin on the jump.
Great job here! He is doing well with the independent weaving, so you can move into the courses with those if you like. And feel free to try the teeter sequences here too!
Have fun!
Tracy
