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Hi!
>>Yes, in the first two I had a target loaded with food. I try to be fairly religious with this since the teeter was such a project. After that, no food.
That is what I thought – but she was still targeting to that spot really nicely even without food!
>> So, when you are saying she didn’t know where the reinforcement was coming from, are you referring to the ball? Or that I was mixing food and ball and that made it unclear?>>
If you watch her head after she gets the treat or hits position, she is looking around with really quick movements (like at :48, :57, etc) – sometimes down, sometimes at yuo, sometimes behind her, sometimes away from you and off to the side. So she is looking for *something* 🙂 When you had the toy out ahead, the looking around went away – was she looking for a placed toy? If so, keep on placing the toy just so she can have that predictability.
>>I don’t think I know about the rebound game so if you have a video that would be great. I do agree that when she knows where the ball is she is more intent to hold the teeter down. When it is in a sequence or even the few trial runs we have done she does hold it down.
Yes, I think knowing where to look (ball!) allows her to multi-task and use her hind end better.
Here is a rebound game explanation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDZC6byGinwAnd a bit of a finished product, you can see the weight shifting more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfddwEcTjfY>> She has a strong preference of wanting to do a 4 on. My original intent was to teach that but when the chaos began plans changed. If I can come up with a plan of attack I might do that later.
I like the clarity of the 2o2o – we don’t want to frustrate her. And 2o2o criteria tends to last longer than 4on because it is very specific.
T
Now that I have had more coffee, I thought of one more thing: you can also break it down by making the weaves themselves easier. How did you initially train them? For example, if you used channels, you can have all 12 poles. The first 6 or 8 can be straight and then you can open up the last 4 or so a bit, so they are easier to stay in when you are doing all sorts of crazy handling things 🙂 That can allow for the training we need to do without too much bang on her body.
Let me know if it makes sense or if I am still under-caffeinated hahahaTracy
Hi!
>>Here is Zing’s teeter. This is the crown jewel of all of my training with her. When she began she went CRAZY on the teeter, biting, spinning, etc…So after coming back from my panic attack, I decided to train her teeter, not on a teeter. >>
Whoa! I have met some dogs who do the spinning barking BITING on the teeter (all BCs lol). I am glad you came back from the initial panic with a plan: her teeter looked GREAT here! Was there a cookie planted there on the first few or was she doing a great nose touch? She was SUPER independent… she didn’t give a cr*p about where you went hahahaha don’t take it personally. She did have a question about holding the teeter down with her hind end: it lifted it up a lot and even bounced her off on one rep. That is partially due to the nose touch element. I personally really like the nose touch so I add a game that helps the dog with the whip of the board (the rebound game). It might be something you already know but haven’t done yet, because you’ve been working on “don’t bite the damn board” LOL!! If you have never played the rebound game, let me know and I will send videos.
The only other thing I saw here was that after she initially landed in position, she seemed to not know where to look next (in other words, she didn’t always know when/where the reinforcement was). If you can be earlier with the marker about where to look next (or when/where the reward is coming) then she will know where to look and also I think she will think about holding the board down with her rear.
Not sure how much sequencing you have done with the teeter, but she looks ready for it to go into the sequences here!
>I will now use that with all my dogs I loved it so much. Zing did not get back on a teeter until she was 16 months old, still had to address the going crazy, but we had tools by then. >>
This is inspirational! If only everyone would approach things like you did. YAY!!!!!
>>The last 2 clips are just cause it is HUGE for her to sit beside a teeter, watch the motion, listen to the sound and stay in a control position.
This is indeed huge!!!! In fact, she looked quite zen-like. Almost napping. Was she awake? HA! Just kidding 🙂 She looked great!!!!! I am so thrilled for your progress. I would love to see before/after videos at some point. And Hoot looked great too, of course 🙂
Ok so next steps would be to move the teeter and weaves into the sequences for success (the weaves can be slightly open). Have fun!!!
TracyHello and welcome! She did great here!
It seemed like she was fast and correct in the striding, no matter what you did or where you went (perfect!!!) She did look for the toy as she came out, so you can throw it earlier (which is an additional challenge) or leave it out there (also a good challenge :)) You can definitely try the sequences with the weaves.>>She seems to do better when I am behind, than when I run ahead. >>
She probably tries to rush because it is so fun to go fast when you go fast 🙂 The guides seem to help! Which brings up a good question:
>>For our last rep, I did an entry sending on the L side with running ahead, as these are her weaknesses at the moment.>>
Since she seems to find the guides really helpful on the exit, have you tried them on the entry in this situation? They might help her out too!
>>I am wondering if it would be a good idea to do these skill exercises with the travel plank for her 2o2o.>>
Totally yes 🙂 You can use the plank and a target. I also play this with the bang game on the teeter, starting behind the dog so the dog moves ahead to target position.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy>>And, this might be a way to fix the releasing himself to his leash on course – the dreaded run to the leash instead of the last jump.>>
10000000% yes to this! I have seen some of the biggest names in the sport have a winning run go sideways… because the dog didn’t know how to ignore the leash.
>> I can throw the leash, use one cue for it and a different cue for the food reward and teach him to bypass the leash for treats unless he gets the cue for leash play. This is a really good exercise!>>
Absolutely! And that is something that doesn’t even need agility equipment to play with 🙂
T
Hi!
Wow, the teeters reps were hard for her but I am SUPER excited about her confidence!!!! She drove right to it and went directly to target position. That is fabulous!
With the MM straight out ahead, you can use that to release her to when you are miles away – that can make for a more immediate reinforcement, which can translate to driving across the board faster.
And since she is still pretty new to the full teeter, you can mix in some ‘easy’ reps where you are running fast alongside her or ahead of her to also keep the speed through the pivot point. Overall though, I am doing a big happy dance with her teeter performance!!!!She was trying SO HARD on the weaves – it was really challenging and she was so funny, weaving next to the last couple of poles LOL! Good girlie 🙂 I liked how you broke it down for her on the last rep: lateral, a little, and behind, a little: but giving just enough support so she could be very successful. That is where I suggest starting the next session, than gradually add in fading away laterally, then reducing the amount of motion. You can also have the beloved MM out ahead as a focal point too for these – it will be a great way to get her to let you fade the motion while also getting quick rewards.
Question: how does she do with 6 poles? You can work the standing still or dramatically running away on 6 and see if that is easier for her to stay in the poles.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there!
I have always found that the more experienced the dog, the harder it sometimes became to get them to NOT watch me at the bottom of the contacts LOL!!! I mean, all of their competition/course running experience helped them realize that my position would dictate what was next, so that watching me would help them find the next line.That is the good news.
The bad news is…
I have always found that the more experienced the dog, the harder it sometimes became to get them to NOT watch me at the bottom of the contactsHa! And watching us causes them to slow down or not go all the way to the end/curl off the side or both.
That is what Taken is doing here – he is using his experience to try to sort out the next line so looking at you and curling off the side. To keep the contacts fast and ‘correct’ (not sideways haha) we can work on convincing him to go straight. The best reps were when the toy was straight out in front, like at 1:27ish. On the other reps, even when you tossed the reward straight, he was still looking at you (and being able to watch you throw the toy is very reinforcing :))
So definitely in training, have the reward placed out ahead. You can also revisit the original training method (if you used a target on the ground, for example) to help get his eyes straight and position straight. For example, I train my 2o2o with a target at the bottom of the contact, and I like to refresh that skill with the experienced dogs (the baby dogs don’t have enough experience to look at me yet LOL!) So you can put the target back in during training to remind him to look forward and not curl in (especially on the teeter). And I add it into course work sometimes too, just to be sure I can be independent and not build in any looking at me.>> I’m pretty cautious about the reps we do on the DW and the weaves so I don’t do those often in training (which is why I only worked the end position here).
Totally agree! Working end position was perfect! You can get a ton of training in without any slam on his body 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHowdy!
>>I need a bigger yard! (The DW is diagonally across my back yard right now)
That is a good place for the DW 🙂 I wonder if all of the MN people can get together to use each other’s spaces?
Up first, Mr. Floof:
Great friz throws LOL! Most were good, a couple were clunkers, I feel that pain LOL!!! I like that you had the go verbal there too, so he had clarity of where to look after the tunnel. And he was looking straight on the tunnel exit, thanks to the go verbal, which is terrific!! If you want to do the sequences with him, you can totally do it with the tunnel in the center and just add in the different exit verbals. I do think he might be able to do most of the sequences with the teeters and weaves, even if you help with slightly open weaves or a target on the teeter (my demo dogs had a target out and also slightly open weaves).
>>I plan to try but am expecting I will need to move forward more. And for his teeter, I plan to put the target back out. Should I run up to reward him in position with food or try releasing and throwing a toy?>>
Yes, you can support the newer obstacles with more motion forward and less moving away dramatically – and then fade that out. I bet he is stronger than you think!
For the teeter, yes you can totally use the target and then either run to plop the treat in position or release him forward to a toy or a MM).
Ooh your rollers with Min were really good!! She also did well on the tunnels! And as with Kaladin, great job with the go verbals. Consistency is so critical with verbals: you used the verbal and placed the reinforcement correctly. Click/treat for you 🙂
She also did well with the weaves: and if the Sunday session helped that, then I am totally doing a happy dance! I support your goal of wanting to tryout for the WAO team at US Open – I believe she is an excellent candidate! I am quite sure we will all need some super independent poles there. She seemed to have a little question on the very last rep in the poles, but it is also possible that she just slipped or got caught in the poles. But that slip might also be a sign of distraction: MOM WHERE ARE YOU GOING?? LOL! So this is something to keep showing her until she is VERY confident (we revisit this skill several times this summer 🙂 )Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Couple questions about this
– does he need to be ‘controlled’ on the way out or can we play tug on the way out before we stop and sit/do trick or whatever?Do you mean on the way out to the jump, with the leash on? Nope, you can find your own rhythm/teamwork with that. He can be tugging on the leash on cue, doing tricks, or walking with you – anything that is engaging (not controlled, that is no fun :)) but also nothing that would have him obsessing on other dogs running.
>> If I’m using the toy to tug as the reward, then do we just play wherever we are when I reward or still pretend the run out of the ring?>>
Tug toy as reward would look something like this:
go to line on leash, playing
leash off
leash tossed or placed behind him and you (like near where the ring gate would be or ring exit would be)
you lead out (eventually, for example)
then yes, cue to run back to it then go play. It is the same as having the cookies on a chair, but instead it is the leash on the ground somewhere.>>I like your idea of leash off before the sit. He’s so conditioned to amping up as soon as I take the leash off once he’s sitting. In the old days I needed to make sure he was going to stay in the ring with me, so I didn’t take the leash off till he was sitting, now it’s a habit that i don’t need to have. Wouldn’t it be fun if we could break that old trigger and have a controlled Wager at the start line? 🙂>>
Yes! You can also allow him to offer the behavior and it can be a different behavior (a down or stand rather than a sit, for example) to really break out of old habits.
>>I’m pleased with how Spot is coming along. It must be all that great instruction I got on his foundation and progression to sequencing. 🙂 Will add a target for a while.
I think he looks fabulous 🙂 You are doing a great job!!!
T
Hi!
>>Yes he avoids collars, harnesses and slip on leashes in general. He doesn’t like wearing anything. He doesn’t wear a collar.
What would he do if he was wearing a light collar in the house or in regular life? Or a super light harness?
This is a good starting point to explore, because putting the collar or leash on might be triggering arousal that we don’t want – and if we can find a way to make collar wearing into a happy-making thing that is a regular part of life, then the rest of it will be much easier 🙂
>>So for the games I will put the harness on in the house and attach a light line.
Ideally, the harness and line go on a while before you train, so they are not associated with training (if there is any anxiety associated with them, then we do not want to add anxiety to the training process). So try putting on the harness and line in the house and NOT training – just give him a bone to chew and you sit with a nice cuppa tea 🙂 What would he do if that happened? I am curious to hear more, because I didn’t know about his distaste for all things collar/harness/leash 🙂 We want the harness/line to just fade into the background.
>>Love the idea of using just a fabric loop it takes away the idea of wearing something. Watson’s philosophy on life is be free.. run naked LOL>>
Ha! You can get one of those loop toys and teach him to shove his head through as a goofy trick. That transfers nicely to leashes and collars 🙂
T
Hello and welcome! Thank you for the intro, Strike sounds really fun!
We can definitely work on building more speed and independence on course!
The videos here seem to all be of course work maybe from USDAA@home? Let me know if I am missing something – looking at independence will totally help build speed. On the course here, he was perfectly on task, but he was wanting to run at your speed more than he wanted to drive away independently to obstacles and lines. So I am glad we are jumping right into the independence as it will make a big difference for him.
If you have a moment, please repost the teeter and weaves links – let me know if you have any trouble posting them.
Thanks!
TracyHi!
It is very fun to see Fusion working!
She did a great job on the tunnel!! Great commitment and that is perfect for a young dog! She was not quite sure where to get the rewards, so you can have a marker like “get it” and throw something bigger and more obvious (like a toy if she likes those). When you were using the lateral motion after the tunnel send, she turned nice and tight on the exit – perfect! It looks like she was getting the reward back near you on those which is great for a tunnel exit.The poles and the training plank are still a work-in-progress. Eventually they will be as beautifully independent as the tunnel, but for now you can really emphasize the independence without you adding too much challenge.
Poles – on the first couple of reps, she was looking at you a lot so for now, have a reward target or the MM there to give her a focal point. You added the MM later in the poles and she still had questions about where to look. So for now, since she is still in the early learning stages of the poles, don’t do tooooo much moving away until she is happy to drive to them and through them without looking back at you. Then you can add in the various angles of motion way from her.
On the contact plank – the MM totally helped! When you are training her, are you using a target? You can use a target at the end of the board and move the MM a few feet past it, so the MM is not as much of a prompt for the behavior (easier to fade out).
Keep working the plank & poles in smaller steps for now, when she has more experience on them and more understanding, you can add more challenge by adding more independence 🙂
Great job here!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Brrrr it looks cold there LOL!!!>> need to do a lot of rewarding for taking lead on and off around agility equipment- he is fine else where.
Yes, agility equipment is very stimulating so you can isolate that skill, separately from this game. Near an obstacle, leash off – immediate cookie for staying with you – leash on. Having the cookie right there (and not on the chair) can make the reinforcement really fast and help him understand in that moment rather than having to go back to a reward. Eventually it can come into this game too.
>> need to play the game from the beginning with a toy not just jump in to the middle. Or perhaps need to raise the value of the food first will play with this. Also need to work on tugging on the lead>>
Yes, yes, and also – yes. LOL! Start this away from agility obstacles, because the obstacles raise his arousal level and make it all harder.
I think the food value looked high here? When he is more stimulated, will he take the food as happily as he seemed to here?And yes, tugging on the leash can be separated into 4 parts that won’t take long at all:
– separately from obstacles – tugging on the leash like it is a toy, not attached to him
– separately from obstacles – tugging on the leash like it is a toy while also attached to him
– in front of obstacles – tugging on the leash like it is a toy, not attached to him
– in front of obstacles – tugging on the leash like it is a toy, while also attached to himIntroducing the tug leash as just a toy first really helps speed this along.
A couple of ideas based on your video:
You can split the behaviors more, rewarding more relaxed attention and not trying to the sit. For example, at :25 you could have gone back right away to the cookie when he walked away so nicely!When working this skill of the ‘remote reward’, don’t have any other rewards in your hands or pockets – that way we can be really specific about how and where to earn the rewards. If you hand him a treat from your hand, then suddenly the treat in your hand is in play like at :59 when you gave him a treat after the leash came off. That muddies the waters when we are trying to teach him to offer these behaviors without the treats in hands or pockets.
The sound was off on my videos here, the internet is being realy terrible for me today! So I could hear you but not that clearly – be sure to just use the reward marker when it is time to run back to the chair – no need for a yes or release , just the marker which is actually a release too
He seemed to have the hardest time when you asked for the sit then tried to take the leash off. He didn’t really understand that you wanted him to remain in the sit, so he would stand up then you would grab for him which he didn’t really love. So, you can split the behavior differently:
in this game with the reward on the chair: don’t ask for the sit. Instead just work the leash-off element and run back to the reward when he offers attention/engagement.Separately, work the ‘remain in your sit’ with cookies in your hand: that way you can immediately reward in the sit position. And you can split the behavior there too: reward him for remaining in the sit when you touch the leash (cookie!), when you touch the clip of the leash at his collar (cookie!) when you flick the clip but don’t actually unclip it (cookie!) and eventually when you unclip it from the collar (cookie!) Yes, lots of cookies but it is a hard behavior 🙂
Working in those little pieces will raise the rate of success and then it will be even easier.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Ewwwww on the mushy yard! But I am glad it convinced you to train this skill haha!!
>> I’ll admit, since it’s hard for us and there’s so many things I want to train, it’s not been super high on my priority list to work through.
I have come to understand that sorting out this stuff (reinforcement procedures) is the gateway that makes everything else possible. So we will definitely focus on it and you got some good info here!
>>We started with leash play. Another thing that’s been harder for us. I feel like his tug skills are decent.
Yes, he did well – he *definitely* preferred the tug toy or leash to be moving away from him so he could engage with it by chasing it a bit. That is why he turned off the leash tug in the first part here (and turned off the tug toy when you asked him why he was being weird) – the tug presentation was towards him on those and he was much happier to play when the tugging opportunities were presented with the toy/leash moving away from him.
Also, helping him know exactly when the tug is in play as a reinforcement is important: at the beginning, when you cued the sit pretty but your leash hand was over his head, he was not sure if he should be looking at the leash or at the cue hand. So he went for the leash, and then flattened a little when that turned out to be incorrect. Try to cue the tricks with an empty hand for now when your hands are close to him, so there is no confusion about when he can grab the toy. You can also add a cue for him to grab the toy when it is nearby (I use “bite!” for Contraband LOL!!) and that way he knows when the toy is in play and when he should listen/look for other cues. He did well with the left/right spins with the leash in your hands, because the leash was less ‘in play’ (right near him) and he could see the cues more clearly.
He was happy to engage with his leash later on, mainly because it was moving away from as more of a toy and less towards him.
>> I do think it’s interesting that he was a bit disconnected when I asked for a wing wrap. He was unsure IMO.
Yes, because of the learning process of how to earn the reinforcement. Most of our young dogs are used to doing wing wraps with toys or treats right there… and when they are not right there, it is much harder to do the wing wrap. You can separate the wing wrap from the stay for now – send to the wing wrap and when he does it, cue him to urn back to where the reward is. It might be too much at this stage to do a stay and the wing wrap.
>>I switched to a clip lead to see if it was going over the head that bothered him. He played well for that leash. I brought the slip back out and he had a decent play session for that- not as good as the slip but acceptable for me.>>
I think the clip lead was able to move away from him better without all the fluffernutter happening around his head or neck from the other leash. So he might need a longer leash if it is a slip leash, so there is more ‘chasing’ of it to engage and less happening around his head/face/ears. When the slip leash was on him and moving away at 3:06 he was happier too so I definitely think he has a preference for it moving away.
Also, taking the leash off and *then* tugging on it seemed to be happier for him – could be that there is less pressure on his neck and then the leash becomes more toy like.
>>I do think this is important to get right because it is a legal reward in the ring.
Totally agree! Not only is it a legal reward in the ring in most venues, establishing the procedures allows for a much more relaxed dog in the ring. Sooooo many dogs stress out during trialing because they simply don’t know how/when/where to earn the reward.
Great job obsessing here 🙂 Let me know what you think!
Tracy
