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Hi!
Hope you are having a good holiday weekend!>> I assume the sequences on 6 poles you mention here are the ones under the “Find ’em Track: 2×2 heading?>>
The most recent ones with the straight poles in sequence are here:
https://agility-u.com/lesson/find-em-track-2x2s-game-5-mini-courses/
and can eventually be expanded to 12 poles too!Have fun!
TracyGood morning!
>>I hadn’t noticed the difference in left and right turns or lack of head turn.
That is the joy of being able to stare at the video a few times in a row LOL!! It is hard to see in the moment for sure, and then sometimes when editing videos of my own dogs, I don’t really see things as well either.
>>is the head turn game where you were word as soon as they turn away from you on a barrel or cone or wing?
Correct – it is the double wrap where you cue the 2nd wrap and c/t as soon as he turns his head. It is different from traditional multi-wraps where the dog keeps offering (the dogs don’t ever really turn their heads on that) – the cue is what elicits the behavior for us to click, then we reward it and then we reset it. Eventually you click the head turn on that first approach and fade out the double wrap.
>>it’s funny because I did just revisit the baby steps of rewarding circling a cone and marking when he turns head away but I’m thinking maybe there was another game that you know of that I missed?
Do it on a wing now, rather than a cone – it is entirely possible that he does it on a cone but needs you to generalize it to a wing. I found that my bigger pup targets the inside edge of the wing as he approaches it, to be able to turn his head and bend into the turn.
>>I will definitely go back to just using wings and not the jumps Because the low jumps aren’t really teach him anything about how to jump anyway.>>
There is a lot of value when using low jumps and he can learn a lot about jumping… plus the low jumps also tell us what he needs to learn more about (like collection) while saving his body. So I agree that getting the behavior first on a wing is the right way to go, but then put it back onto low jumps before going to taller jumps.
>> the next question is do I also continue with some of the other games that don’t involve collection and transitions?
Yes, keep working the other games that involve speed and extension. We are looking for a good balance and that takes literally years to achieve. If you only work on collection, you’ll only get collection and then it is harder to get extension and speed. If there has to be a skew in balance right now, I am happier when young dogs skew towards extension and speed 🙂
T
Hi there! I think you are really close to getting to all 12 poles!!! His drive to the poles looks good and his striding looks good too!
He did really well here – the one thing I see is that he wants to look at you a bit (because, cookies :)) and then when you added speed, he had trouble staying in the poles. He was pretty perfect with his weaving when you were walking and not moving ahead.
So with that in mind, you can address that specifically and then it will be much easier for him to stay in. When he was using the second set of 6 as a focal point, his first set of 6 looked great and he didn’t look at you. So let’s give him a focal point on the 2nd set of 6 as well (which will transfer to the 12 poles): he has done really well with the Treat n Train as a focal point, and also with your V-shaped cardboard as a focal point. That way he can look ahead to where the reward is thrown and won’t want to watch your hands as much.That can also help you add more speed: you were trying to add it here and it totally caused him to look at you. But with a focal point, I think he will just happily do his weaving while you can do all sorts of other things LOL!
And when he is more experienced with doing 12 poles, we can replace the target focal points with other obstacles 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense! He is very close, this is exciting!!!
Tracy
Good morning!
Great job here! She was on fire driving to the poles for the first several reps for about the first 35 seconds of the video. She was fast going to them and she was really quick and rhythmic through them
She did slow down on the last couple of reps – it looked more like fatigue (was her tongue hanging out? LOL!) so on the next session, start with the 12 straight and see how it goes. That will answer the question about if it was fatigue or not: if she drives in fast (even if it is not perfect) then she was fatigued here. If she slows down on that first rep going to the poles, it was more of a visual distraction of all 12 and she was slowing herself down to think.
>> Question – do we keep at 12 for a while now, or should I vary sometimes 6 and sometimes 12 and sometimes 10 or 8? Simple sets or inside a small sequence? I think she’ll pick up speed and confidence as we go on, but I’d like to make that progression as fun as possible. What do you suggest? >>
I plan the # of poles based on what the training goal is for that session. Crazy entries? I will do that on 6 poles to make sure they ae well-understood and comfortable, so. I can reward pretty quickly (and not worry about 10th pole pop out after a brilliant entry). Same with hard exits, I will do that on 6 poles. I have posted some sequences on 6 poles for you to play with that add challenge to the entries and exits on just 6 poles (it is easier on the dog’s body and quicker to reward).
I do show the dog 12 poles: simple lines at first, then adding in handling challenges after the pup is successful on 6. But the reps are really limited so I get 4 or 5 passes through the poles, maximum, which includes misses – so I plan a lot.Eventually you can do all the things on 12 poles, but it is still with an eye on limited reps.
I personally have not gone to 8 or 10 poles, mainly for lack of have that on full competition bases (and not wanting to use my 2x2s after the poles are straight, because the dogs push them open). I imagine it would be OK if you wanted to do that!Let me know if that all makes sense! Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
All of the warm cup games on the first video looked really great, and I am SUPER happy with his first full teeter – he stopped past the end of the board but that was a GREAT error. And then on the next full one – he showed no concerns and worked hard to drive to the yellow then shift his weight to stop in position. Yay!
2nd video – omg the Very Hungry Caterpillar ugh be your crowning achievement. Ha! I admit that bacon sticks actually sound delicious mixed with ice cream. His warm up games looked great, and I think he was temporarily mind-blown when the caterpillar appeared (understandable). He does get a gold star for multi-tasking the chewing AND going into position LOL! Good boy!
He did well on the full teeters here – still working out where to shift his weight but I think he is ready for more toy play before the rep and also the toy as the reward. It will fall into the ‘think less’ category to help him keep running to the end 🙂 And you can also add in not being as far ahead – being parallel to the board as he is getting on it, mixed in with him getting ahead of you, mixed in with you being way ahead.It was hard to see – did he have a target here? If so – you can leave it in for more full reps and keep working to fade it on the the bang game and plank. And when you take this behavior to other places, you can bring the target to help transfer it. I think it will be easy to fade.
Thank you for the Cooking With Lennan Compilation!!!!! Brilliant!!! Made me crack up all over again. Also, note the evolution of your cooking creativity – you started small and then went wild. Ha! You were creative all along and your artistic presentation grew to match it. SO FUNNY!! Let me know if you share this on Facebook, I would love to post it 🙂
Now I want ice cream for breakfast. Ha!
Great job on all of this! I am looking forward to seeing the teeter go into sequences!
Tracy
Good morning! What’s up with the winter gear?? It is almost June, c’mon, Mother Nature!!! LOL!!
Hey, nice clear markers here!!! Very precise on most of these reps!
I think she goes into calm mode after the first rep and actually gets a little thoughtful, so she stops a little shorter. The toy play here didn’t seem to spiral her too high, which is good! I think you can put the teeter into sequences now – and go back to working on fading out the target (there is no rush to fade it because you’ll want to really solidify the teeter in different environments).
The MM out ahead, on the other hand… much harder 🙂 That makes sense because of the running contact work so you can dial back your motion on that (she was ahead when she self-released). That teeter performance when she self-released was really nice, though 🙂 so you can tell her what you liked about it (praise, a bit of play) but not give the magical MM click. She got thoughtful on the last rep with the MM and was successful. With continued practice, she will balance that thoughtfulness with the drive all the way to the end.One thing I notice is that she likes to pounce on the board as she gets on it rather than run up the board. That slows her speed across the board a bit, so if she keeps doing that you can use the long jump board as the guides (or whatever you used when we worked on teaching them to find the teeter from various angles). That little bit of help might encourage her to run up the board rather than jump on it 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyI am glad you enjoyed the class! Keep moving along this progression, he is on his way to a great teeter!! The last day for videos is May 31st. Have a great weekend!
TracyHi! I am so glad you are enjoying the training – I am SUPER excited about how Sundae’s teeter is turning out!!!!!
A couple of ideas for you as your finish polishing her final performance 🙂
>> Especially at the lower catch height, she’s having some balance issues, and I think part of that is me and some instability on my part on how I’m holding the board.>>
Maybe a little, but also this particular teeter has a lot of side-to-side action to it. Weighting down the feet might help, a couple of tunnel bags might do the trick? But she also didn’t seem put off by it at all, she just worked her balance more. That is good experience for all the wobbly teeters she will encounter.
>>>Our effort that comes in at about 1:09 on the video is, I think near perfect in terms of where I hope she is downing on the board.>>
I really loved her drive up the board and slam into the down on that rep (and there were others that also looked great!!) This gives us an idea of what she can produce on the teeter and I am doing a happy dance!!!!
>> I accidentally said Dig before my countdown…but it seems like her timing and where she is on the board were just right. I need to figure out how to see that in the moment and do a super reward>>
yes, she seemed to like that timing!
And it cracked me up on the lower catches when the reward dropped: she gently reached forward to get the reward and then moved back onto the board and into the down for the countdown. HA!!! Love it.2 other ideas for you:
When you catch the board, try not to face her – keep yourself off on the side of the board and your shoulders as forward as possible. When you were facing her at the front of the board, she was slowing down (most dogs won’t drive as hard to us when we were facing them compared to how fast they go when we are facing forward).Also, I always not sure if she was supposed to remain in the down or stand up when the board hit the ground? She was going into the down nicely at the top of the board but then standing up – I think it was because the reinforcement was too high. She had to reach up to get it, so she was extinguishing the down in favor of standing. So if you want to maintain the down as the end position, reward lower at the top of the board and also when the board is on the ground: right on the board between her front feet so the reward is easily accessed without her having to reach up for it.
I think she is ready for more full teeters now! Great job!!!!
TracyZig zags – getting started 🙂 Ignore the discussion about backsides at the beginning, that was there because it was part of the backside class:
Howdy!
>> Hope you’re surviving the mechanic.
It is never good when you’ve waited 2.5 months for a part that was promised before the vehicle was picked up, and then the service folks don’t know why you show up with the vehicle. Sigh.
>>I have zero cavaletti experience so I’d love a zig zag for dummies guide.>>
Cavalettis are different from the zig zag – cavalletis are about the height of his wrists and about 20 inches apart (for him) or whatever distance gets a comfy trot going – straight line first, then angles and curves eventually.
I have video on the zig zags (which is for lead changes) and will dig them up and post.
>>I was noticing him using his head more as well. He really is trying so hard. Such a good boy.>>
Yes!!!! Totally great job for him with that – low head, using it to lead the bending.
>>I’m intrigued by the 2×2 here. I almost wrote 4×4 because we were talking groups. We initially switched from 2×2 to channels to target the swim motion. I feel like they will need to be fairly open to get the swim? How open would you advise?>>
I think you can have a ‘noodle’ session which is basically a reward-all-the-things session on 4 poles, starting really easy and the upping the criteria on each rep or every other rep (by tightening them) til we find the sweet spot. We left the 2x2s because he seemed like he wanted to swim and then in the channels, he couldn’t decide if he wanted to swim or bounce. He has done a bit of both! So you can try the 4 poles with both sets open about 6 inches (totally arbitrary number) and then if it is too easy – go to 5 inches, then 4 then 3, etc. The goal is a mini channel so see if we can help him pick a striding and stay balanced.
I am happy with whichever striding he wants to do – both are fast and I can give you examples of top level BCs doing swims and others doing bounces.
He is now staying in really well, so the final frontier is the striding. I feel like there is a key that he is missing and maybe these mini channels will help. Perhaps he wants to swim but can’t hold onto the balance needed (it is a lot of balance and core strength) so he needs 3 mini channels so he can recover the balance on the flat in between each.
T
Hi-
>> What is response to missing a pole in a set of 6?>>
On the first error, I just reset and try again. If it is the 2nd error (either the same pole or a different pole) then I make a variable easier: less motion from me, or easier entry. Or open up that pole if needed.
T
Hi there!
He did well on the teeter by itself in isolation, for sure! It was hard to tell which reps had the tunnel before them, but I am guessing the teeters at :31 and :52 were from the tunnel. On those 2 reps, he had more trouble controlling the speed and was not shifting his weight back (especially at :52, you can see his weight is forward and his front end is ‘swimming’ a little in the air, so he can’t control the bounce of the board). A couple of ideas for you –
On the more bouncy teeters (like this one, which is a MAX200) – weight it down with tunnel bags on the bases and on the chain, to reduce the bounce/whip of the board. That will help him balance and not get bounced off.
– to help him shift his weight, teach him to do it with speed using the crazy elevator game. Starting from a stay then a wing wrap, have him run up the board and get rewarded at the top as that elicits the weight shift and rewards it specifically. Then do the countdown – at which point you will see him looking down to the target, which also gets the weight shift. I am not sure if he has seen the regular start to the elevator game yet, so start there before adding the crazy elevator game. And then when he can do that… add the speed from the tunnel back in 🙂 The elevator games are harder for us humans in terms of mechanics, but it is worth it because it gets the speed AND the weight shift 🙂>> noticed that when there is a mistake he will offer a “4 on” and wait for me to cue the 2o/2o position. I have seen this on the dog walk and A-frame too so I am wondering how to address it. It doesn’t happen very often but does happen enough times that it could become part of the end behavior>
He is probably sorting out the weight shift on all 3 contacts – in that situation, I don’t re-cue the 2o2o position because it could indeed chain in the 4on behavior to the contact performance. I might wait for a couple of seconds to see if he can offer it. If not, I call the dog off the board, ask for a silly trick to reward, and try again. If he fails twice, I will make it easier for him to be successful, such as reminding him with a rep or two of the elevator game so he can get reinforcement for success before we add back the speed.
Nice work here! Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyHi!
>> Most judges will allow some form of training in the ring. It’s our time which we have paid for, so a long as we don’t take longer than the normal run, it should be fine. A lot of people will take a toy in the ring, do a series of maybe 3 obstacles and then leave. I have also seen people do a startline and then leave. Usually we would ask the judge before the class.>>
Perfect! That is definitely something to consider to help strengthen her start line. Reinforcement *before* she breaks the stay is best. If she breaks and then gets reset and then gets the reinforcement, you’re likely to find that she continues to break.
>>I don’t understand retraining vs a reset. I thought the reset was training if she failed the start and that rewarding backwards with the catch was teaching her where I need her to stay in position since if she doesn’t know if she will be rewarded backwards, she would stay and find out.>>
A reset is when the dog breaks and we go back to re-cue the behavior and try again. Resets are not ideal because she rehearses the incorrect behavior and then might get rewarded for the correct one, but doesn’t have a high enough success rate on that first (and, in trials, most important) rep.
Retraining is going all the way back and starting over, from the beginning. You can take a new position like a down and retrain the stay as if she si a 6 month old puppy, to create clearer criteria and maintain it all the way through long lead outs in competition. And bringing it into the ring with a toy so you can reinforce those first attempts in trials. The retraining should help eliminate the need for resets after failures and should also raise the success rate to closer to 100%.
>>ALthough I know dogs are masters of routine and predictability, I can see how I might be giving the game away with some subtle movement I only do when I am going to reward backwards vs release forwards.>>
I didn’t see that as the cause of her breaks here, you were not seeming to be preparing to throw a reward back when she broke her stay (plus she does it at trials where you probably were also not going to throw a reward back). There is a gap in understanding somewhere, so finding that and helping her will really help 🙂
>>If she has to be reset, how would you train differently so that a reset is not required?>>
I would start over, with a different position, to solidify the understand in all aspects of life and sport – mainly when she is stimulated. I didn’t count the errors versus successes, but it seemed to be somewhere in the 50% range which might reflect what is happening at trials when you lead out more than a few steps. That way, you have a blank slate and can reward early & often, gradually extending the duration and then taking it into the trial ring.
>>We did the setpoint exercise at the very beginning of this course. Is that what you meant?>>
Ah yes! That is right. You can work up to higher heights on that as part of a conditioning exercise. Does she have any plyometric conditioning in her toolbox? One of my dogs did the same thing, and it got MUCH better when I added plyometrics and more strength into his conditioning. I don’t think it is from the abdominal surgery, unless was not happening before it. Do you have any video to compare it to?
Let me know what you think!
Tracy
